Tipping Inside Casinos (always an interesting subject).
Quote: JerryLoganI'm not a pro gambler, and I take anywhere from $2k to $7k on each trip. Sure I don't really expect to win but I TRY, and part of that effort doesn't include handing out free cash to casino employees who don't bring me a drink, a meal, my luggage or my car. If anyone doesn't think all loyal casino employees want you to lose then you're having a great time dreaming about Susan Boyle.
The argument about tipping floor people & dealers because they "depend on it for their income" is irrelevant. They couldn't care less how I earn my money and I don't care one bit how they earn theirs. It's a free society and other job opportunities are there. Aussie's partially correct (and it does make you think about why we tip so freely here) in that the wage should be an appropriate wage. However, if it isn't and you're not happy with the wage then you're the loser who took the job.
There's nothing cheap about me. I tip for many services and I tip well. Dealers and people who bring me jackpot money with W2G's are not doing me any service and I'm not buying anything from them. I also didn't order the money or ask them to hold onto it for a while for me. I don't recall anyone ever tipping the CVS or Rite Aid clerks, and their services are far more important than what a dealer does. And of course, the bank clerk example sort of puts all the tipping casino cashier questions to rest very nicely.
People always seem afraid or reluctant to admit it, but inside casinos we're intimidated into tipping. The employees so much expect it that if we don't do it, there's instant animosity with uneasiness all around. How do you eliminate that discomfort? By TIPPING! Ever get a hand-pay where the last hundred is broken down into twenties?
First of all, you said you only play machines, so your comments about tipping dealers is irrelevant. I don't even know how you can have an opinion. Its like asking someone that never eats in US restaurants if they should tip servers.
This crap about "loyal casino workers" wanting you to lose is just garbage though. Casino workers don't give a flipping crap about whether you win or lose. If anything, dealers prefer dealing to winners, as that's where their tips come, as most often tipping comes in the form of BETS FOR THE DEALERS. But in the end IT DOESN'T MATTER to them or to the casino itself. Winners and losers are the nature of the business. The casion's profits are predetermied by the volume of play based upon the built in HA. All casinos want to do is increase volume (like ANY businesses, entertainment or otherwise), and make sure no one is cheating.
BTW, I have NEVER once felt intimidatd into tipping at a table game in any casino I've been in. I've felt much more pressured for tips in an assortment of different business environments.
Quote: AussieAs an Australian, I find the whole concept of tippig absolutely ridiculous. Why not pay the worker a proper wage and be done with it?
Different culture, different standards. Someone wrote in to Bill O'reilly saying the same thing when Hillary Clinton stiffed a waitress on a tip during her Senate Campaign. (Her excuse was as FL she "didn't carry cash." Bill O mentioned Mr Clinton was known to make a point of *always* having something to take care of such thinbgs. But I digress.) But what I just wrote was Bill O's answer, and it still stands.
I have no guess as why the USA is a tipping culture when most of the rest of what decended from the British Empire does not. Looking at it, the only other "Decented from the Brits" cultures who tip are places like Canada and The Bahamas, places with lots of Americans nearby or/and hanging around. You could call it "That American Risk-Taking Culture" but that would not explain why tipping is even more expected in places like Spain and Italy. In some of these places, a tip is a virtual bribe to get any kind of service at all.
One thing I agree on is there is no reason to tip the person who pays your big slot win and brings your W2-G. Dealers and waitresses provied a "service" and you build some, albeit sometimes small, relationship with them. To say you tip to have your W2-G is to say it is required to give something to the cage person when you cash out.
However, perhaps Jerry's comments are a call to action. Why do we tip casino workers and dealers. Yes, they are making minimum wage (in the United States, not so much in Canada), and when you are working with the same person for hours on end, you build up a relationship to them.
These dealers can make your life miserable or can make your experience enjoyable. When I tip in a casino, it's for good to great service. I never tip dealers with a poor attitude or with those who seem to take delight in your losing, win or lose. The problem with most casinos is that most share the tips equally among all dealers meaning that your tip doesn't matter. However, the gesture I think is important. If your dealer doesn't acknowledge the tip, then what is the point. I have had experience where I've won a bit of money but didn't tip because the service was awful, and I've had experiences where I've lost money and tipped generously because the dealer made it interesting or fun.
If you expect something then you must give something. If you give nothing, then expect nothing.
Karma is, what goes around comes around double fold.
As you can see, once you stopped the process of sharing your good fortune and wealth, it stopped coming to you.Quote:I no longer tip for any hand pays, even when I hit a $5 royal (which has only been once unfortunately). I no longer tip the cashiers or any of the crew that appears out of nowhere when handpays occur
I have ALWAYS tipped 10-15 percent when I got a handpay. I have always won on a trip to a casino. The small smile from an attendant, the light in the eyes when given this small of a gift that I can, is pleasure enough for me when I share. I always think, I will be spending it here anyway and maybe they can use it better than what I am doing with it right now. So I have never worried about sharing...
I do believe in Karma and it has been good to me.
So remember, what you give is what you will get back in return...being a Magyar...we believe in the world being a circle...so, good luck to all and happier days and prosperous ones too!
Don't break your circle of positive energy...always think before you decide on an action...and what it means if it is not followed through with.
In casinos however, its what is done. I've heard craps dealers telling each other "Seven Elevens are looking attractive" because the dealers could see the casino was nearly empty and their toke boxes were absolutely empty.
It can become excessive such as in those trendy nightclubs but otherwise ... thats the way it is! You don't have to approve of it, you just have to do it.
Quote: JerryLoganAnd of course, the bank clerk example sort of puts all the tipping casino cashier questions to rest very nicely.
That is a sad mistake. Bank "clerks" are closely audited, and it is really easy for customers to double and triple check their work. They are also paid "regular" wages. Neither is the case for casino dealers. And if you do not believe that a dealer can be a significant help or hindrance, that may be because you say you do not play table games. One would daresay that dealers at games like craps can be as much of a help or do as much damage as, say, a food server. But then again, you say you regularly tip food servers. Are you afraid of what they might to do your food on the way to the table?
It's the same with not including tax in the advertised price of goods and services. Why not just include tax in the advertised price so the consumer actually knows exactly how much they're up for? Much simpler.
Quote:I realize tipping is a cultural thing but can you seriously tell me things wouldn't be easier if the workers were just paid a proper wage? Scrap the tipping, increase prices slightly and pay them properly.
I'd be happy to see us go to a non-tipping culture, but I think you might need to specifically outlaw it to do so.
I think someone mentioned Mcdonalds earlier (which as far as I know doesn't allow tipping), however, if someone keeps slipping a Mcdonald's employee a token for good service anyway, then in my mind eventually that could work to ensuring people who tip get the decent service, and service becomes not so good for just paying customers.
I don't want people not to make a decent wage either though. Maybe I should blame the company that allows tipping. I think tipping actually puts customers in the position of competing against each other whether they know it or not.
On the other hand, I currently tip people who normally are expected to receive tips, as I am not a big activist about the whole issue.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThat is a sad mistake. Bank "clerks" are closely audited, and it is really easy for customers to double and triple check their work. They are also paid "regular" wages. Neither is the case for casino dealers. And if you do not believe that a dealer can be a significant help or hindrance, that may be because you say you do not play table games. One would daresay that dealers at games like craps can be as much of a help or do as much damage as, say, a food server. But then again, you say you regularly tip food servers. Are you afraid of what they might to do your food on the way to the table?
1. Huh? Casino clerks are just as closely audited, and if you do not double and triple check what they give you then you are either confused or drunk.
2. Bank tellers make by & large the same wages and benefits that casino cashiers do.
3. I trust food servers, although you never know. That's why you don't piss them off before they serve.
4. Dealers are a dime a dozen and they all have a chip on their shoulder. Each of them believes they can syphon a higher amount of tips from the saps that freely hand them over for no discernible reason. I don't play table games but I have 2 friends in LV that are a dealer and pit boss.
Quote: JerryLogan1. Huh? Casino clerks are just as closely audited, and if you do not double and triple check what they give you then you are either confused or drunk.
If you play table games, you would realize that you do not get a receipt or record of transaction or statement after every roll or hand.
Quote:2. Bank tellers make by & large the same wages and benefits that casino cashiers do.
OK, how do you know that and how much is the typical wage? Anyway, you were complaining about dealers mostly, not cashiers.
Quote:3. I trust food servers, although you never know. That's why you don't piss them off before they serve.[/q}
Or afterward, either, especially if you might return.Quote:4. Dealers are a dime a dozen and they all have a chip on their shoulder. Each of them believes they can syphon a higher amount of tips from the saps that freely hand them over for no discernible reason. I don't play table games but I have 2 friends in LV that are a dealer and pit boss.
So your three pissed-off friends are a representative sampling of a group of tens of thousands of employees. Wow! At least it's interesting to see the thread return to the topic of dealers.
Quote: JerryLogan4. Dealers are a dime a dozen and they all have a chip on their shoulder. Each of them believes they can syphon a higher amount of tips from the saps that freely hand them over for no discernible reason. I don't play table games but I have 2 friends in LV that are a dealer and pit boss.
As an ex-dealer for over 30 years, Jerry is right on!
Well, maybe only 99.99% of all dealers have a chip on their shoulder.
Quote: AussieI realize tipping is a cultural thing but can you seriously tell me things wouldn't be easier if the workers were just paid a proper wage? Scrap the tipping, increase prices slightly and pay them properly. The argument that tips give incentive to provide good service doesn't really wash. If a worker provides poor service they will be fired, tips or not. I can tell you service is no worse in Australia where tipping is rare.
It might or might not affect service levels. But my personal thought is that service levels would go down. Lets look at just casinos for now. It is not in dispute that few casinos are "go for your own" houses. Here at WoV and on WoO there are plenty of statements that the applicatrion line for "go for your own" places is long and competition is fierce for dealer jobs. So if all casinos paid a "decent wage" the best people would take a pay cut, many would go do something else. To keep the best dealers a place such as Caesars has to make it up somewhere else, which would mean more bad rules for players (Come and play our new 7:6 Blackjack!) since there would be no reason for the best dealers to work there instead of Circus Circus which seems to have the lowest tips on the strip.
Quote:It's the same with not including tax in the advertised price of goods and services. Why not just include tax in the advertised price so the consumer actually knows exactly how much they're up for? Much simpler.
This is a mixed bag. Why they don't do it here in the USA is due mostly to law. In PA the Sate-owned liquor stores once included sales tax in the price but the state (yes, the state who owned the stores) said it was not legal. I'd rather have it listed as a line-item instead of embedded in the price like with a VAT tax. For one simple reason--I want people to realize how much taxes they pay each and every time they buy. This limits people voting for the guy with the bigger handout promise.
Quote: AussieIt's the same with not including tax in the advertised price of goods and services. Why not just include tax in the advertised price so the consumer actually knows exactly how much they're up for? Much simpler.
Cuts both ways.
In Mexico there's a value added tax (VAT) currently at 16% (originally it was 10%). At one time it wasn't included in the price, now it is. I admit it's easier to know the full amount to pay, rather than having to calculate the tax before reaching the register. On the other hand you don't necessarily realize how much money the government's taking from you. Sure, you know it's 16% on top of the sale price, but that tells the average person nothing.
In addition when the VAT rate goes up, the "price" goes up, too. I put price in quitation amrks because the price is what the seller charges for something before taxes. Usually, though, it's seen as a price increase, not as a tax increase.
Quote: 7winnerAs an ex-dealer for over 30 years, Jerry is right on!
Well, maybe only 99.99% of all dealers have a chip on their shoulder.
Yeah, but I don't care about that. A good dealer will put the attitude aside and give me a good playing experience. So the guy's trying to siphon tips? Hey, do a good job and it will work, everybody gets what they want, and the day ends with a beautiful sunset. After all, in the end I don't care either, all I'm there for is a good time. If I'm getting my mind all torqued up thinking about a good dealer's real inner attitude, then something is wrong inside of me, and I need to walk away from the casino.
Quote: 7winnerAs an ex-dealer for over 30 years, Jerry is right on!
Well, maybe only 99.99% of all dealers have a chip on their shoulder.
Works for me. If they're that good at acting, they deserve a bit of extra remuneration. And if they happen to help me out along the way, so much the better.
Quote: AZDuffman
This is a mixed bag. Why they don't do it here in the USA is due mostly to law. In PA the Sate-owned liquor stores once included sales tax in the price but the state (yes, the state who owned the stores) said it was not legal. I'd rather have it listed as a line-item instead of embedded in the price like with a VAT tax. For one simple reason--I want people to realize how much taxes they pay each and every time they buy. This limits people voting for the guy with the bigger handout promise.
Great case of how one hand doesnt talk to the other. Instead of just changing the store's policy, one state department has to tell another state department what they're doing is illegal...
Kinda like how casinos send room offers to trespassed people
Quote: JerryLogan3. I trust food servers, although you never know. That's why you don't piss them off before they serve.
Really? You walk on eggshells in restaurants because you're afraid someone will do something to your food? Wow.
Quote: JerryLogan...they all have a chip on their shoulder.
Talk about projection!
It seems the whole world is out to screw you. You're wise to stay on your toes.
Quote: CalderReally? You walk on eggshells in restaurants because you're afraid someone will do something to your food? Wow.
Talk about projection!
It seems the whole world is out to screw you. You're wise to stay on your toes.
Reaching for straws has never worked out for anyone.
Not trying to piss the waiter off is equivalent to being a good customer and having a good time. Where did the fear factor get manufactured??
You also equate not tipping casino gaming employees with them trying to screw me? You see why I made the "reaching for straws" comment.
Quote: JerryLogan
3. I trust food servers, although you never know. That's why you don't piss them off before they serve.
Oh, so THAT'S the reason to not piss off food servers before they serve.
When is the right time to piss them off? When they bring the check?
I'm glad you don't play table games, because you are one of those black clouds that rain all over a good time at a blackjack table...
Tip what you're comfortable with.
Quote: joenunzOh, so THAT'S the reason to not piss off food servers before they serve.
When is the right time to piss them off? When they bring the check?
I'm glad you don't play table games, because you are one of those black clouds that rain all over a good time at a blackjack table...
Again, reaching for straws. You're doing the same thing Obama and his crew does when they don't like something that's said on FNC. I never said I'm going to piss the server off regardless. If you're unhappy with what they did or didn't do you and they remain arrogant about it, you wait until after your food is served to do your thing. that consists of either a verbal bashing, a stiff on the tip, or both.
You're probably right, I would likely be an outcast at the BJ table because I would be the only one who would never tip. I think I'll try it out on my next visit. Sounds like fun!
Of course, Jerry, you complete discount yourself when you bring politics into the forum. Your comment about Obama on FNC, really?
Last night, I ran into a snarly switch dealer who asked me why I was playing this game, and that he would never play in a casino. I stayed for a few minutes and won some hands, but left because it was absolutely unenjoyable. Even if I won $1,000 at that table, there would be no tip. What's sad is that his tips are based on everyone else's. Whereas at the Craps table, 4 hardways bet of $1 for the dealers for excellent service gave them $20 in tips when two of them hit.
When you tip, it should be based on the quality of service only. In Ontario, they've introduced a bill that would eliminate the mandatory tip for large parties (exceptions are banquets).
Just like anyone in life, there are people who are grateful for everything that they have in life and there are those who expect everything for nothing. I find that there is a decent correlation between age and expectations.
Quote: JerryLoganAgain, reaching for straws. You're doing the same thing Obama and his crew does when they don't like something that's said on FNC. I never said I'm going to piss the server off regardless. If you're unhappy with what they did or didn't do you and they remain arrogant about it, you wait until after your food is served to do your thing. that consists of either a verbal bashing, a stiff on the tip, or both.
You're probably right, I would likely be an outcast at the BJ table because I would be the only one who would never tip. I think I'll try it out on my next visit. Sounds like fun!
Whoa...
You start a thread asking people for their opinion on tipping and proceed to imply that those who tip dealers or slot attendants are suckers. And it sure sounded to me that you are just waiting for a reason to "bash" food servers.
I agree that there are many inconsistencies in "tipping protocol" - especially in casinos. And I NEVER have a problem with someone who doesn't tip - *especially* if they don't think they received proper service.
But this isn't about tipping...over the last seven pages you have called housekeeping workers "grunts", railed about people hanging out in Wal-Mart parking lots, told us you could use tip money to buy groceries and food for your family (that was my favorite!) and somehow folded an Obama rant into this.
You seem angry...not sure what you're angry about, but something's got your goat...
I'm going to the $10 blackjack table hoping for some 11s to double on, a cold beer ($2 bucks to the waitress!) and some laughs with like-minded people.
Go sit at the slot machine by yourself Jerry, pissed off at the world. I won't miss ya!
Quote: joenunzWhoa...
You start a thread asking people for their opinion on tipping and proceed to imply that those who tip dealers or slot attendants are suckers. And it sure sounded to me that you are just waiting for a reason to "bash" food servers.
I agree that there are many inconsistencies in "tipping protocol" - especially in casinos. And I NEVER have a problem with someone who doesn't tip - *especially* if they don't think they received proper service.
But this isn't about tipping...over the last seven pages you have called housekeeping workers "grunts", railed about people hanging out in Wal-Mart parking lots, told us you could use tip money to buy groceries and food for your family (that was my favorite!) and somehow folded an Obama rant into this.
You seem angry...not sure what you're angry about, but something's got your goat...
I'm going to the $10 blackjack table hoping for some 11s to double on, a cold beer ($2 bucks to the waitress!) and some laughs with like-minded people.
Go sit at the slot machine by yourself Jerry, pissed off at the world. I won't miss ya!
Yes I asked for opinions, and I did not exclude myself from contributing. It is YOU who seem angry that I did not do that.
I have nothing against food servers. That was simply an example.
Someone brought up that they tip housekeeping. My opinion was that anyone who tips those people gives into the pressure they see from the envelopes that are left in the rooms, because there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to leave money to people who are required to clean your room. That's why rooms are not free. Do you leave tips in your rental car because it was cleaned before you got it? People who yip housekeeping do it on one night stays also. Just as I see the slot player who is intimidated into handing over some cash for a hand-pay or the fool who gives the cashier a tip for cashing in a TITO or a handful of chips or cashing a check/cash advance or whatever, I see people who leave housekeeping tips as weak and totally uninformed. And yes, for every dollar I save on foolish tipping practices, I can buy food.
Don't be unnerved about Obama showing up. He's inserted his inexperience & stupidity into nearly every corner of our lives this past year. You should be used to it by now. Foreigners laugh at us for our ridiculous tipping culture. They also laugh at us for having elected the worst president one could ever imagine.
First of all, it's an acronym: To Insure Propper Service.
You occasionally hear/read stories of a guy who tips a waiter at the start of a meal saying, "Keep my coffee cup full, and there will be more..." or something similar. That's not me, but it underscores the origin of tips.
Second, people in the service industry, I.E. those that depend upon tips, tend to be better tippers than the rest of the population, simply because they understand. And that usually holds true for former service industry people too.
---
I tip waiters if the service was good. I tip better if the service was excellent.
I tip bell people $1 per bag for carrying my heavy bags, and saving me the trouble. If they are quick to arrive at my room, I give an extra buck.
I tip the valet so I don't have to park myself out in the boondocks.
If I'm staying more than one night, I'll leave a note for the housekeeper to not tuck in the top sheet and blanket. If she complies, then the tip is $3 per night. Otherwise, $1 per night.
A few years back, we went to Disney for a week, and took our niece with us. She was about 7. Each night, her dolls were arranged, but differently each day. After the second day, each day as we treked back to the hotel, we were excitedly talking about the possible arrangements she might have left them in. Hell, on the fourth and fifth day, our neice picked an item at a gift shop specifically because she wondered how the housekeeping person would incorproate it into her display. That housekeeper got $5 per night, and a note saying "Thanks for making Sarah's dolls feel at home."
I have tipped a cage clerk exactly once. Normally, for a 30 second transaction, I can't see myself tipping. However, when my wife won around $12,800 at Let It Ride a few years back, we went to a private room off the main cage, where we sat for about ten minutes while the clerk prepared TWO checks. (I don't remember why my wife wanted it broken into two checks.) $10,000 and $2,000, with the rest in cash. When we were done, we tipped her $20.
I don't play slots, but my wife does. I'm fairly certain she has never tipped for a hand pay.
I tip casino dealers, because they can make the game more enjoyable. I do NOT believe that the want gamblers to lose. I do not believe ANY casino floor worker wants the gambler to lose. It's just a fact that sooner or later, gamblers WILL lose, and that will pay the casino's expenses. Gamblers know that they are more likely to lose than to win. But to think that the dealer, or even the floor person, is rooting against the player, is absurd.
I tip poker dealers for almost every hand I win, primarily because it's customary to do so. The expected exception is if the pot is $10 or less, which is kinda rare. As such, poker dealers tend to get the most tips of any dealer. For whatever reason, poker dealers also tend to keep their tips, while in the rest of the casino, dealers pool tips.
I only play $1/$2 No Limit. Usually, the tip is only $1, unless the pot is particularly big. I have once goaded the player next to me to tip bigger. He got real lucky on the river and won well over $650 on one hand. (The pot was over $800, and $150 of it was his contribution.) He then tips $1. I say to him "Only a buck for that pot on a suck-out?" He laughed and threw in another $2. And he told me I was right.
Of course, I could be wrong about you, but I'm certain I'm not wrong about how you appear.
Making fun of you and your paranoia is like shooting fish in a barrel...
Have a nice day!
Quote: joenunzJerry....sounds like you are unnerved about a lot of things...among them Obama, other people tipping and grunts.
Making fun of you and your paranoia is like shooting fish in a barrel...
Have a nice day!
I think you folks are just too embarrassed to admit how easily intimidated you are by varying situations when you go out in public. Self-confidence and self-respect are beautiful things.
And WHO likes OBAMA!?
Quote: JerryLoganI think you folks are just too embarrassed to admit how easily intimidated you are by varying situations when you go out in public. Self-confidence and self-respect are beautiful things.
And WHO likes OBAMA!?
Really man, is this thread about Obama? Or about tipping?
And to think I thought I had self-confidence and self-respect...until the wise Jerry told me I have none since I leave a few bucks for housekeeping!
Keep supplying the material Jerry...like I said, fish in a barrel!
I'm not intimidated at all. I like being in control, and part of that control is deciding when to tip and how much. If I decided to never tip, then I would be ceding my control over a fluid world to an inflexible principle, which never works. I have no problem looking a guy in the eye and saying "no"; I did it 2 weeks ago at the Philadelphia airport, when the curbside check-in porter told me there was a mandatory $2 fee for checking bags curbside (no such fee). I was planning to give him $5 for 2 bags; instead, I said I was planning on giving him $5, laughed and took my bags inside instead.
I repeat: you might or might not be calm as can be, but you APPEAR to be bitter, angry, and unbalanced. If you like being seen as such, by all means, continue on as you have been.
Quote: DJTeddyBearWhile it's a sad state that tipping has evolved into a 'customary' and 'expected' thing, I think we should be reminded what tips are.
First of all, it's an acronym: To Insure Propper Service.
No true. Read the following to discuss the origin of the word "tip".
Quote: Michael QuinionCould I first dispose of the odd belief that it is an acronym for the phrase To Improve Performance? Modern folk etymology has a curious idea that the source of almost any short word lies in an acronym (perhaps because we’re surrounded by them), but the truth is that few such inventions are found before the 1930s.
Actually, this is a most interesting word. There are three distinct senses of tip in English: the one for an extremity probably comes from Old Norse; the one with the sense of overturn possibly also comes from a Scandinavian language, though nobody is sure. The one you’re asking about may derive from the German tippen, or possibly also be connected with the idea of an extremity, though authorities in language history are hedging their bets through lack of evidence.
It turns up first in the thirteenth century, meaning to touch lightly (as in the game tip and run). By the early 1600s, it had become thieves’ cant with the sense of handing something over, or passing something surreptitiously to another person. This may derive from the idea of lightly touching somebody’s arm in order to communicate. (This is supported by other appearances of the word in phrases like tip the wink and tip off and the noun tip for a piece of inside information, say on a horse race.)
One specific thing that was passed was a small sum of money. By the beginning of the eighteenth century it had taken on its modern meaning of giving a gratuity for a small service rendered; the first recorded use is in George Farquhar’s play The Beaux Stratagem of 1706 (“Then I, Sir, tips me the Verger with half a Crown”). By the 1750s, it could also mean the gratuity itself.
Quote: joenunzReally man, is this thread about Obama? Or about tipping?
And to think I thought I had self-confidence and self-respect...until the wise Jerry told me I have none since I leave a few bucks for housekeeping!
Keep supplying the material Jerry...like I said, fish in a barrel!
Denial.....NOT such a beautiful thing.
Quote: MoscaI like Obama. I liked Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan, and Nixon; I didn't like Ford (but I think he got a raw deal), Carter, and Bush 2. I didn't get to vote before Nixon's 2nd term, but in '72 I voted for Nixon. Prior to that, I think Eisenhower is unrecognized as one of our greatest presidents, Kennedy could have been great or not, and Johnson could have been great but wasn't. That covers all the presidents in my lifetime. Fair enough?
I'm not intimidated at all. I like being in control, and part of that control is deciding when to tip and how much. If I decided to never tip, then I would be ceding my control over a fluid world to an inflexible principle, which never works. I have no problem looking a guy in the eye and saying "no"; I did it 2 weeks ago at the Philadelphia airport, when the curbside check-in porter told me there was a mandatory $2 fee for checking bags curbside (no such fee). I was planning to give him $5 for 2 bags; instead, I said I was planning on giving him $5, laughed and took my bags inside instead.
I repeat: you might or might not be calm as can be, but you APPEAR to be bitter, angry, and unbalanced. If you like being seen as such, by all means, continue on as you have been.
Your mind is stuck in one gear: Jerry never tips anyone. And of course, that gear does not exist.
Quote: MoscaTroll.
Agreed.
So lets all stop feeding the troll.
Quote: boymimboBack on topic. I wonder if Obama tips?
I think the tipping issue has run its course. Too bad the misguided fascination with Obama hasn't....yet.
Presidents are presidents, usually. But in the case of the last two guys (with respect to slick Willy and his adulterous, cheating, lying ways) "usually" hardly fits.
I'm an Independent who voted for the guy twice, and I'm so very glad I did. Can you just imagine what a lying coward Kerry or the now exposed Gore (short for "creator of the Internet") would have been like? But in this last election I voted for Obama because I did not like the economic or illegal immigration direction GWB was taking. No way was I voting for a weakling like McCain. I did, however, like Sarah Palin's guts (& ass). Now, like the majority of Americans, I see how I was duped by this self-centered, minority-sympathetic racist who finds it impossible to handle criticism with style and grace like GWB always did.
As for the 2 wars, Bush did a great job in Iraq and now it's time for Obama to shut it down. Today. Let those animals do what they do best to each other and always have. Afghanistan should be dealt with more severely. We should immediately leave, stop spending there, and announce the incorporation of a new law entitled The Jerry Logan Manifesto. It's main points, some of which relate to terrorism, are:
1. A stern warning. Any further Taliban-planned attacks on the USA means the entire country would be flattened. Totally. They were warned, they couldn't listen, it's all their fault. Let the Muslim world comprehend that nothing bad happens to them without their extremists' participation. Collateral damage doesn't matter. The disease has to be met head-on and stopped somewhere, somehow, sometime. If Russia or China protest and want to tangle, bring them on. Being afraid never accomplishes anything.
2. The same goes for any other country that SPONSORS an attack upon the US. Countries that don't listen will cease to exist. Those idiots have been nothing but a thorn in the side of decent human beings anyway.
3. Leave Isreal alone, and let them do what they want with Iran, Lebanon, or any other group that thinks it's OK to lob missile after missile at their civilians and then cry like big babies once Israel retaliates.
4. Leave Korea to Korea. Their beautiful women start to look like old hags at 35 anyway.
5. Annex Japan as the 52nd state, right after we annex yo-ho-ho Puerto Rico. Why not?
Jerry likes tricking academics into abandoning the principles of scientific inquiry. That's the most damnable thing about him. It's also why we must understand that I regard Jerry the way I would the sort of stinking filth I might have to clean off my boots after a careless walk in a dog kennel. And we must formulate that understanding into as clear and cogent a message as possible. It saddens me that his cocky, wayward programs of Gleichschaltung inaugurate an era of longiloquent anti-intellectualism. Jerry then blames us for that. Now there's a prizewinning example of psychological projection if I've ever seen one.
Jerry says that he can convince criminals to fill out an application form before committing a crime. What he means by this, of course, is that he wants free reign to force onto us the degradation and ignominy that he is known to revel in. While I can't speak for anyone else, I assert that he commonly appoints ineffective people to important positions. He then ensures that these people stay in those positions because that makes it easy for him to operate on a criminal—as opposed to a civil disobedience—basis. Some people say that that isn't sufficient evidence to prove that Jerry is secretly scheming to interfere with the most important principles of democracy. And I must agree; one needs much more evidence than that. But the evidence is there, for anyone who isn't afraid to look at it. Just look at the way that while he insists that the worst types of shiftless, mutinous pillocks I've ever seen make the best scoutmasters and schoolteachers, reality dictates otherwise. Actually, if you want a real dose of reality, look at how that is no excuse for anything. An obvious parallel from a slightly different context is that he has, on a number of occasions, expressed a desire to sucker us into buying a lot of junk we don't need. On all of these occasions I submitted to the advice of my friends, who assured me that he has delivered exactly the opposite of what he had previously promised us. Most notably, Jerry's vows of liberation turned out to be masks for oppression and domination. And, almost as troubling, his vows of equality did little more than convince people that if this post did nothing else but serve as a beacon of truth, it would be worthy of reading by all right-thinking people. However, this post's role is much greater than just to advocate social change through dialogue, passive resistance, and nonviolence. The take-away message of this post is that Jerry Logan is a liar—a conscious, deliberate, bald-faced, shameless liar. Think about it. I don't want to have to write another post a few years from now, in the wake of a society torn apart by Jerry's litigious, demented antics, reminding you that you were warned.
Quote: JerryLogan
I'm an Independent who voted for the guy twice, and I'm so very glad I did.
Quote: JerryLogan
I'm a republican forum member.
I guess that explains your difficulty distinguishing facts from opinions...
Quote: DJTeddyBearI tip poker dealers for almost every hand I win, primarily because it's customary to do so. The expected exception is if the pot is $10 or less, which is kinda rare. As such, poker dealers tend to get the most tips of any dealer. For whatever reason, poker dealers also tend to keep their tips, while in the rest of the casino, dealers pool tips.
I only play $1/$2 No Limit. Usually, the tip is only $1, unless the pot is particularly big. I have once goaded the player next to me to tip bigger. He got real lucky on the river and won well over $650 on one hand. (The pot was over $800, and $150 of it was his contribution.) He then tips $1. I say to him "Only a buck for that pot on a suck-out?" He laughed and threw in another $2. And he told me I was right.
When I was playing poker here in Arizona, I came up with the following idea for tipping poker dealers. Winner of the pot, if said pot is over $15, should tip $1, regardless of size of pot. (At the time, I was playing $3-$6 limit hold 'em and limit omaha). At the end of the dealer's time at the table (half an hour), each player at the table who was there for the full half hour tips the dealer $1 each, if the dealer was 1) competent and 2) enjoyable. Both of those are subjective qualifications, but still, I think most people know what it all means. Using this method, I figure that a dealer would get approximately $10 in hand tips (assuming 10 hands per half hour meet the $15 pot mark, I notice that most dealers can deal out around 20-25 hands in an hour, but some of those may be small quick-folding hands). At a 9 person table (the standard at the time), the dealer would then get another $9 if s/he was competent and made the game enjoyable. Let's say that only half the players found the dealer enjoyable and competent AND were there for the full half hour, so $4 from that. A total of $14 per half hour, or $28 per hour.
I would notice that most dealers would rotate tables for 2 hours, and then get about a half hour break. Of course, a lot of that would depend on how many dealers there were and how many tables. But assuming that in an 8-hour shift, the dealer actually dealt for 6 hours. $28 dollars per hour times 6 hours divided by 8 hours equals a little over $20 per hour that the dealer makes for his/her shift. That's not really all that bad.
Quote: MoscaI've tried to keep quiet, but I just can't hold it in any longer. I have to tell everyone that Jerry Logan's vituperations rub me the wrong way. First things first: Jerry wants to control every aspect of our lives. He wants us to rise, fall asleep, work, and live at the beat of a drum. Then, once we're molded into a uniform mass, we'll be incapable of seeing that many people respond to Jerry's antihumanist stances in the same way that they respond to television dramas. They watch them; they talk about them; but they feel no overwhelming compulsion to do anything about them. That's why I insist we make a genuine contribution to human society. Contrary to what he would have you believe, I once read an article about how he wants nothing less than to engage in the trafficking of human beings. It was the powerful and long-lingering momentum of the impressions received on that occasion, more than any other circumstance, that gave definite form and resolution to my purpose of offering true constructive criticism—listening to the whole issue, recognizing the problems, recognizing what is being done right, and getting involved to help remedy the problem.
Jerry likes tricking academics into abandoning the principles of scientific inquiry. That's the most damnable thing about him. It's also why we must understand that I regard Jerry the way I would the sort of stinking filth I might have to clean off my boots after a careless walk in a dog kennel. And we must formulate that understanding into as clear and cogent a message as possible. It saddens me that his cocky, wayward programs of Gleichschaltung inaugurate an era of longiloquent anti-intellectualism. Jerry then blames us for that. Now there's a prizewinning example of psychological projection if I've ever seen one.
Jerry says that he can convince criminals to fill out an application form before committing a crime. What he means by this, of course, is that he wants free reign to force onto us the degradation and ignominy that he is known to revel in. While I can't speak for anyone else, I assert that he commonly appoints ineffective people to important positions. He then ensures that these people stay in those positions because that makes it easy for him to operate on a criminal—as opposed to a civil disobedience—basis. Some people say that that isn't sufficient evidence to prove that Jerry is secretly scheming to interfere with the most important principles of democracy. And I must agree; one needs much more evidence than that. But the evidence is there, for anyone who isn't afraid to look at it. Just look at the way that while he insists that the worst types of shiftless, mutinous pillocks I've ever seen make the best scoutmasters and schoolteachers, reality dictates otherwise. Actually, if you want a real dose of reality, look at how that is no excuse for anything. An obvious parallel from a slightly different context is that he has, on a number of occasions, expressed a desire to sucker us into buying a lot of junk we don't need. On all of these occasions I submitted to the advice of my friends, who assured me that he has delivered exactly the opposite of what he had previously promised us. Most notably, Jerry's vows of liberation turned out to be masks for oppression and domination. And, almost as troubling, his vows of equality did little more than convince people that if this post did nothing else but serve as a beacon of truth, it would be worthy of reading by all right-thinking people. However, this post's role is much greater than just to advocate social change through dialogue, passive resistance, and nonviolence. The take-away message of this post is that Jerry Logan is a liar—a conscious, deliberate, bald-faced, shameless liar. Think about it. I don't want to have to write another post a few years from now, in the wake of a society torn apart by Jerry's litigious, demented antics, reminding you that you were warned.
I guess I nailed you right between the eyes!
Quote: rdw4potusI guess that explains your difficulty distinguishing facts from opinions...
Twisted wording again, similar to MSNBC antics whenever they try to diminish what their superiors at FNC say.
I'm a Rupublican today. You got that part right.
When I voted for GWB twice I was an Independent. You sort of got that one right.
Voting for Barrack Obama, then seeing his obamination, republicanized me. You didn't want to get that part right.
Quote: JerryLoganTwisted wording again, similar to MSNBC antics whenever they try to diminish what their superiors at FNC say.
I'm a Rupublican today. You got that part right.
When I voted for GWB twice I was an Independent. You sort of got that one right.
Voting for Barrack Obama, then seeing his obamination, republicanized me. You didn't want to get that part right.
Oh, I really didn't care. But you used the present tense in both of your posts. I AM a Republican...I AM an independent. Who's twisting words, now?
Quote: JerryLoganI guess I nailed you right between the eyes!
Mosca - As I said...shooting fish in a barrel!
Quote: JerryLoganI guess I nailed you right between the eyes!
After reading this post, you will never again be able to trust Jerry Logan and you will see with crystal clarity the way that I am indubitably not ashamed to admit that this is kind of a touchy subject to some people. I would like to start by discussing his ideals, mainly because they scare me. The thing I'm the most frightened about is that one of the great mysteries of modern life is, Why does he have to be such a party pooper? The answer is rather depressing, but I'll tell you anyway. The answer begins with the observation that it's astounding that Logan has somehow found a way to work the words "epididymodeferential" and "historiographical" into his wisecracks. However, you may find it even more astounding that you can really assume serious trouble is brewing when footling, unstable skinheads treat anyone who doesn't agree with him to a torrent of vitriol and vilification. Be patient; I won't ask you to take that on faith. Rather, I'll provide irrefragable proof that if we let Logan pour a few drops of wormwood into our general enthusiasm, then greed, corruption, and neocolonialism will characterize the government. Oppressive measures will be directed against citizens. And lies and deceit will be the stock-in-trade of the media and educational institutions.
Let me move now from the abstract to the concrete. That is, let me give you a (mercifully) few examples of Logan's outrageous ineptitude. For starters, he is an interesting character. On the one hand, Logan likes to break down the industrial-technological system. But on the other hand, the question that's on everyone's mind these days is, "When will he come clean and admit that he intends to cashier anyone who tries to make him answer for his wrongdoings?" The answer may surprise you, especially when you consider that there is an unpleasant fact, painful to the tender-minded, that one can deduce from the laws of nature. This fact is also conclusively established by direct observation. It is a fact so obvious that rational people have always known it and no one doubted it until Logan and his lapdogs started trying to deny it. The fact to which I am referring states that Logan's underlings have been running around recently trying to advocate fatalistic acceptance of a voluble new world order. Meanwhile, Logan has been preparing to shatter and ultimately destroy our most precious possessions. The whole episode smacks of a carefully orchestrated operation. If you ask me, if society were a beer bottle—something, I believe, that Logan holds in high regard—he would indeed be the nauseating bit at the bottom that only the homeless like to drink.
Logan is too inane to read the writing on the wall. This writing warns that he believes that people are pawns to be used and manipulated. Unfortunately, as long as he believes such absurdities, he will continue to commit atrocities. The point is that most people aren't willing to swallow what he's serving up: a triple scoop of mendacious sprinkled with mendacious and topped off with warm mendacious sauce. If I may be permitted to make an observation, Logan attracts the worst sorts of whiney scrubs there are to his junta by telling them that he has answers to everything. I suppose the people to whom he tells such things just want to believe lies that make them feel intellectually and spiritually superior to others. Whether or not that's the case, Logan feels no guilt for any of the harm he's caused. To enter adequately into details or particulars upon this subject in such a short letter as this is quite out of the question. Hence, I will only remark here, in a general way but with all the emphasis of earnestness and truth, that Logan is a covinous headcase. In fact, Logan is worse than a covinous headcase; he's also a wicked, bookish malefactor. That's why he feels obligated to put the gods of heaven into the corner as obsolete and outmoded and, in their stead, burn incense to the idol Mammon.
Logan has stated that two wrongs make a right. That's just pure authoritarianism. Well, in Logan's case, it might be pure ignorance, seeing that Logan maintains that he is clean and bright and pure inside. While that happens to be pure fantasy from the world of make-believe, one important fact to consider is that I will stop at nothing to complain about venal con artists. My resolve cannot fully be articulated, but it is unyielding. As evidence, consider that in these days of political correctness and the changing of how history is taught in schools to fulfill a particular agenda, when Logan hears anyone say that most of us are now painfully aware of his unpleasant, jackbooted half-measures, his answer is to make bigotry respectable. That's similar to taking a few drunken swings at a beehive: it just makes me want even more to scuttle his mingy attempts to craft propaganda that justifies making his roorbacks a key dynamic in modern pessimism by viscerally defining "dendrochronological" through the experience of disaffected Fabianism.
I defy the foul prigs who turn public education into a mushy, touchy-feely experience whose purpose is socialization, not learning, and I defy the powers of darkness that they represent. What I want to document now is that Logan makes it sound like he does the things he does "for the children". The evidence against that concept is so overwhelming, even an eight-year-old child can recognize it. Even so, the vitally important thing for all people to know is that I will renew my resolve to encourage open, civic engagement. More emphatically, the key to his soul is his longing for the effortless, irresponsible, automatic consciousness of an animal. Logan dreads the necessity, the risk, and the responsibility of rational cognition. As a result, before he once again claims that he is a bearer and agent of the Creator's purpose, he should do some real research rather than simply play a game of bias reinforcement with his helpers. Let me close where I began: Irrational dossers are the biggest threat to freedom the world has ever seen.
Of course, given the latter I'd be ignoring too many users, but I can live with that.
Quote: MoscaAfter reading this post, you will never again be able to trust Jerry Logan and you will see with crystal clarity the way that I am indubitably not ashamed to admit that this is kind of a touchy subject to some people. I would like to start by discussing his ideals, mainly because they scare me. The thing I'm the most frightened about is that one of the great mysteries of modern life is, Why does he have to be such a party pooper? The answer is rather depressing, but I'll tell you anyway. The answer begins with the observation that it's astounding that Logan has somehow found a way to work the words "epididymodeferential" and "historiographical" into his wisecracks. However, you may find it even more astounding that you can really assume serious trouble is brewing when footling, unstable skinheads treat anyone who doesn't agree with him to a torrent of vitriol and vilification. Be patient; I won't ask you to take that on faith. Rather, I'll provide irrefragable proof that if we let Logan pour a few drops of wormwood into our general enthusiasm, then greed, corruption, and neocolonialism will characterize the government. Oppressive measures will be directed against citizens. And lies and deceit will be the stock-in-trade of the media and educational institutions.
Let me move now from the abstract to the concrete. That is, let me give you a (mercifully) few examples of Logan's outrageous ineptitude. For starters, he is an interesting character. On the one hand, Logan likes to break down the industrial-technological system. But on the other hand, the question that's on everyone's mind these days is, "When will he come clean and admit that he intends to cashier anyone who tries to make him answer for his wrongdoings?" The answer may surprise you, especially when you consider that there is an unpleasant fact, painful to the tender-minded, that one can deduce from the laws of nature. This fact is also conclusively established by direct observation. It is a fact so obvious that rational people have always known it and no one doubted it until Logan and his lapdogs started trying to deny it. The fact to which I am referring states that Logan's underlings have been running around recently trying to advocate fatalistic acceptance of a voluble new world order. Meanwhile, Logan has been preparing to shatter and ultimately destroy our most precious possessions. The whole episode smacks of a carefully orchestrated operation. If you ask me, if society were a beer bottle—something, I believe, that Logan holds in high regard—he would indeed be the nauseating bit at the bottom that only the homeless like to drink.
Logan is too inane to read the writing on the wall. This writing warns that he believes that people are pawns to be used and manipulated. Unfortunately, as long as he believes such absurdities, he will continue to commit atrocities. The point is that most people aren't willing to swallow what he's serving up: a triple scoop of mendacious sprinkled with mendacious and topped off with warm mendacious sauce. If I may be permitted to make an observation, Logan attracts the worst sorts of whiney scrubs there are to his junta by telling them that he has answers to everything. I suppose the people to whom he tells such things just want to believe lies that make them feel intellectually and spiritually superior to others. Whether or not that's the case, Logan feels no guilt for any of the harm he's caused. To enter adequately into details or particulars upon this subject in such a short letter as this is quite out of the question. Hence, I will only remark here, in a general way but with all the emphasis of earnestness and truth, that Logan is a covinous headcase. In fact, Logan is worse than a covinous headcase; he's also a wicked, bookish malefactor. That's why he feels obligated to put the gods of heaven into the corner as obsolete and outmoded and, in their stead, burn incense to the idol Mammon.
Logan has stated that two wrongs make a right. That's just pure authoritarianism. Well, in Logan's case, it might be pure ignorance, seeing that Logan maintains that he is clean and bright and pure inside. While that happens to be pure fantasy from the world of make-believe, one important fact to consider is that I will stop at nothing to complain about venal con artists. My resolve cannot fully be articulated, but it is unyielding. As evidence, consider that in these days of political correctness and the changing of how history is taught in schools to fulfill a particular agenda, when Logan hears anyone say that most of us are now painfully aware of his unpleasant, jackbooted half-measures, his answer is to make bigotry respectable. That's similar to taking a few drunken swings at a beehive: it just makes me want even more to scuttle his mingy attempts to craft propaganda that justifies making his roorbacks a key dynamic in modern pessimism by viscerally defining "dendrochronological" through the experience of disaffected Fabianism.
I defy the foul prigs who turn public education into a mushy, touchy-feely experience whose purpose is socialization, not learning, and I defy the powers of darkness that they represent. What I want to document now is that Logan makes it sound like he does the things he does "for the children". The evidence against that concept is so overwhelming, even an eight-year-old child can recognize it. Even so, the vitally important thing for all people to know is that I will renew my resolve to encourage open, civic engagement. More emphatically, the key to his soul is his longing for the effortless, irresponsible, automatic consciousness of an animal. Logan dreads the necessity, the risk, and the responsibility of rational cognition. As a result, before he once again claims that he is a bearer and agent of the Creator's purpose, he should do some real research rather than simply play a game of bias reinforcement with his helpers. Let me close where I began: Irrational dossers are the biggest threat to freedom the world has ever seen.
Another "direct hit"....and with embarrassing accuracy really.
BTW if you want anyone to read your long, whining, rambling posts, break 'em up a little more!
Quote: NareedWe really need an "ignore thread" and "ignore user" function on the forum.
Of course, given the latter I'd be ignoring too many users, but I can live with that.
Without looking, I'm going to guess this thread I started is one of the more popularly read threads here in a long, long time.
I can live with that.
Quote: JerryLoganAnother "direct hit"....and with embarrassing accuracy really.
BTW if you want anyone to read your long, whining, rambling posts, break 'em up a little more!
If you've been following the news recently, you know that Jerry Logan's epigrams reinforce the point that we still have a long way to go in terms of achieving true tolerance in our society. However, you might not know that Logan seems to be playing the "I'm more hopeless than you" game. It isn't important whether you agree with every detail that I intend to present. What matters is that you begin to realize that I am rather disturbed by Logan's somewhat internecine attitude that we should love things and use people instead of the other way around. Sad, but true. And it'll only get worse if Logan finds a way to make our lives an endless treadmill of government interferences while providing few real benefits to our health and happiness.
It would be better for Logan to do nothing than to mortgage away our future. But the problems with his tracts don't end there. Do his shock troops upbraid him for being so silly? No, that would be the correct and logical thing to do. Instead, they twist our entire societal valuation of love and relationships beyond all insanity. In closing, there are still a large number of comments about Jerry Logan that I have had to leave aside. I didn't even begin to mention, for instance, that the cry of "bigot" is raised mostly by bigots. Anyway, the important point is that when Logan says that the laws of nature don't apply to him, he's just plain wrong—not "partially wrong" but "absolutely and entirely wrong".
