Is it Welsh or Welch?
Is the correct term Welsh or Welch? Or, maybe they're both OK?
Inquiring minds and all that.
Thanks
FYI: Welsh is a person from Wales.
Quote: DJTeddyBearWelch.
FYI: Welsh is a person from Wales.
Isn't that the origin of the term?
welch (v.) 1857, racing slang, "to refuse or avoid payment of money laid as a bet," probably a disparaging use of the national name Welsh.
Huh. So both, sort of.
Quote: VenthusCourtesy of Etymonline...
welch (v.) 1857, racing slang, "to refuse or avoid payment of money laid as a bet," probably a disparaging use of the national name Welsh.
Huh. So both, sort of.
Yeah, last time I looked this up, it had origins as a derisive term for Welsh people as apparently at one point in time they were known to be dishonest with respect to paying debts.
Quote: beachbumbabsYeah, we had the conversation around LemmieGate last year. I think we ended up deciding that it was formerly derisive of Welsh people no matter the spelling, no consensus on whether it was currently offensive, no consensus on spelling. I personally favor "Welching" for the spelling, as it seems less derivative of the Welsh people, but that's JMHO.
It seems like using french to talk about a cut of vegetables, english to describe spin of a ball or scotch for killing of a rumour.
Possibly.
Quote: rudeboyoiI think using the term "welsh" is analogous to "jew someone". We just happen to know more Jewish people than welsh people. We are also more aware of the horrors the Jewish people have been put through. Both these things make "jewing" seem like a more derogatory term than "welshing".
You sum it up perfectly, rudeboyoi. Welch, no matter how you spell it, is a very offensive racial/ethnic slur. Even I know that and I don't work very hard on political correctness. Why it is continually used on this purportedly politically correct forum is beyond me. If that hateful slur is allowed here, shouldn't all slurs be allowed?
Quote: 1BBYou sum it up perfectly, rudeboyoi. Welch, no matter how you spell it, is a very offensive racial/ethnic slur. Even I know that and I don't work very hard on political correctness. Why it is continually used on this purportedly politically correct forum is beyond me. If that hateful slur is allowed here, shouldn't all slurs be allowed?
I have never heard any Welshman complain that it is a hateful slur on them. I'll ask them next time I see one. Most likely as it's not a phrase used much in the UK.
Quote: thecesspitI have never heard any Welshman complain that it is a hateful slur on them. I'll ask them next time I see one. Most likely as it's not a phrase used much in the UK.
That goes for most nationalities. Most people just take it in stride as I do but some are truly offended.
Can we get an official WOV ruling and can we get the reasoning behind it? Is Welsh and or Welch, used in this context, a slur? How about you, secret administrator? What do you think?
Quote: 1BBThat goes for most nationalities. Most people just take it in stride as I do but some are truly offended.
Can we get an official WOV ruling and can we get the reasoning behind it? Is Welsh and or Welch, used in this context, a slur? How about you, secret administrator? What do you think?
Turning to the dictionary, I find that either, "Welsh," or the more commonly used, "Welch," has taken the proper meaning of failing to pay, and particularly on a bet. The only way I would suggest that it would constitute a slur, in this context, is if you were using it to refer to something that the person did not actually do.
I did see, "Jew," or, "Jewing," mentioned earlier in the thread and, "Failing to pay," is not an acceptable definition of, "Jewing," someone. The term, "Jew," can properly mean, "To bargain with sharply," which does not infer non-payment at all, and is thus a slur used in that sense.
Thus, if we wish to get as technical as possible, when referring to straight up non-payment, Welching would not constitute a slur and Jewing would. Either could, however, if they were being used specifically and intentionally for no purpose other than to offend parties representing either of the two groups.
Quote: 1BBThat goes for most nationalities. Most people just take it in stride as I do but some are truly offended.
Can we get an official WOV ruling and can we get the reasoning behind it? Is Welsh and or Welch, used in this context, a slur? How about you, secret administrator? What do you think?
If a Welshman takes offence at it, maybe it's a slur. Until that time, and I'll wager I know a lot more Welsh folks than you, I'll defer this silliness to those that have the time.
Quote: thecesspitIf a Welshman takes offence at it, maybe it's a slur. Until that time, and I'll wager I know a lot more Welsh folks than you, I'll defer this silliness to those that have the time.
I have no idea how many Welshmen you know or how many one must know to be deemed an expert. I'm not convinced by your or Mission's take on it so how about we agree to disagree? I will not use the term and leave it to others to make the decision that is best for them.
Quote: 1BB
Can we get an official WOV ruling and can we get the reasoning behind it? Is Welsh and or Welch, used in this context, a slur? How about you, secret administrator? What do you think?
I won't presume to be the "official voice", but my opinion...
Much like "gyp", I had no idea it was a racial / cultural slur until, of course, it was brought up here a year or so ago. And even after that, I can't say I understand it. I don't get what breaking your word has to do with the people of Wales. No idea whatsoever.
That being said, since it is a confirmed slur, care should be exercised. I wouldn't go so far to start swinging the ban hammer out of hand, but we should generally attempt to avoid offense if possible. Use of "welsh" will surely happen again. If a Welshman, Englishman, just a man, or a body described with the suffix of -man, including but not limited to a wo-man, should take offense to it, an advisement should be issued to the offending party. Should an offender choose to disregard said warning, then there is plenty of elasticity built into the rules to deal with said breach, without having to codify each and every slur and slight, real or perceived.
Call it the Redskin Rule. An effort to not offend with an equal effort to not be offended, with Green action only for extreme examples, on a case by case basis.
What say you?
Quote: 1BBI have no idea how many Welshmen you know or how many one must know to be deemed an expert. I'm not convinced by your or Mission's take on it so how about we agree to disagree? I will not use the term and leave it to others to make the decision that is best for them.
Are you actually offended by this term, or are you just using this as an example of how the rules aren't specified down to the Nth degree on this board?
Quote: AcesAndEightsAre you actually offended by this term, or are you just using this as an example of how the rules aren't specified down to the Nth degree on this board?
I'm not offended nor am I offended by jokes about my heritage. That doesn't mean I'm comfortable with it. We all have them however not all jokes are slurs. I know that the use here was innocent in that no slur or insult was intended but we've all heard the saying about ignorance of the law. It's offensive no matter how many people use it and no matter how accepted it is.
You had to mention forum rules didn't you? :-) It's been a couple of days since I've been insulted and I'd like to keep that going so I'll refrain from commenting on the rules.
I'm part welsh somewhere i think and wouldn't care. probably long ago a man said he was sterile, knocked up great great etc. grandma and welshed on supporting the baby.Quote: 1BBI'm not offended nor am I offended by jokes about my heritage. That doesn't mean I'm comfortable with it. We all have them however not all jokes are slurs. I know that the use here was innocent in that no slur or insult was intended but we've all heard the saying about ignorance of the law. It's offensive no matter how many people use it and no matter how accepted it is.
You had to mention forum rules didn't you? :-) It's been a couple of days since I've been insulted and I'd like to keep that going so I'll refrain from commenting on the rules.
Wales is game to you?!?Quote: rudeboyoiThe Wales is weak.
Quote: teddysWales is game to you?!?
Hehe. You got it.
Quote: BoulderDamItWhere does the board stand on "Limey"? Can I start throwing that around? :D
As long as I can call Americans 'Septics', please go right ahead. :D
Quote: BoulderDamItWhere does the board stand on "Limey"? Can I start throwing that around? :D
Ha ha. I've been called slimy on this very forum so why not? Maybe my insulter thought I was British and forgot the s?
