Keno Question

I read a post where it said that a $1,500 or greater win at Keno would get you a W-2G. I've also read $1,175 or greater. Which is it? (Not that we should be playing Keno.)

Quote: Greasyjohn

I read a post where it said that a $1,500 or greater win at Keno would get you a W-2G. I've also read $1,175 or greater. Which is it? (Not that we should be playing Keno.)

The correct answer for live Keno is $1,500, or more, in net proceeds which would be the amount won less the amount of the bet.

With respect to Video Keno, it is considered a slot machine for these purposes, so $1,200+.

Thanks, Mission. I read the $1,175 figure on page 262 of the book 1000 Best Casino Gambling Secrets. They should have named the book 999 Best Casino Gambling Secrets.

I actually had a different sort of keno question. I know the odds are horrible. But in Ontario, the lottery runs a keno game offering the numbers 1-70. How much better odds are those compared to the traditional 1-80? Olg.ca

My understanding of the usual odds is that Live Keno is steeply against the player whereas digital keno in a slot machine format will be subject to the Nevada minimum for slot machines which I think is 80 or 84 percent. Some Keno rooms only have one chair left for observation nobody has to be there for the game to proceed but the chair must be provided.

Quote: FleaStiff

My understanding of the usual odds is that Live Keno is steeply against the player whereas digital keno in a slot machine format will be subject to the Nevada minimum for slot machines which I think is 80 or 84 percent. Some Keno rooms only have one chair left for observation nobody has to be there for the game to proceed but the chair must be provided.

The State Minimum for Nevada is 75%, though some jurisdictions are 80% and New York, I believe, is 90%, for slots.

Most Video Keno games range 88-92%. You are also correct that Live Keno odds are generally worse than Video Keno, however, there are certain situations (with small bets) where you might have a lower Expected Loss per Hour with Live Keno, The D is a good example, unless you are slow-playing VK.

Quote: Dnalorailed

I actually had a different sort of keno question. I know the odds are horrible. But in Ontario, the lottery runs a keno game offering the numbers 1-70. How much better odds are those compared to the traditional 1-80? Olg.ca

http://www.olg.ca/lotteries/games/howtoplay.do?game=daily_keno

I should imagine the paytable is adjusted accordingly, let's see how the Seven-Pick looks:

(7 ch 5)*(63 ch 15)/(70 ch 20) = 0.0158431769398674

(7 ch 6)*(63 ch 14)/(70 ch 20) = 0.00161665070814973

(7 ch 7)*(63 ch 13)/(70 ch 20) = 0.0000646660283259894

Okay, so what is the expected return, per dollar?
((0.0158431769398674*5)+(0.00161665070814973*50)+( 0.0000646660283259894*5000))-1 = -0.51662143826

That's an expected loss of 51.662143826 cents on the dollar for a 51.662143826% House Edge.

That's not very good.

Let's compare it to Live Traditional Keno!

If you look at the Station Casinos Pick 7 from WoO:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/keno/

And, that's a terrible paytable, much worse than The D, but you'll notice it returns 70.51%

What are the differences?

We see that the 7/7 on the 70 spot is more likely to hit:

1/0.0000646660283259894 = 15464.0701754 or 1 in 15464

vs the 7/7 on the 80:

1/0.00002440 = 40983.6065574 or 1 in 40983.6965574

Thus, the probability of getting that 5,000-FOR-1 pay is significantly better with the 70 spot Keno, however:

You'll see that 4/7 pays 2-FOR-1 on the Station Keno and pays NOTHING on the lottery one. That contributes 10% to the return of the Station Keno and has a probability of 1 in 19.16.

If you were to take the 4/7 on the 70 and made it pay 2-FOR-1:

(7 ch 4)*(63 ch 16)/(70 ch 20) = 0.079215884699337 * 2 = 0.158431769398674

That would add 15.84% to the return and it would STILL BE WORSE than Station Casinos horrible, disgusting, brutal, nasty deplorable paytable. That's mainly because the 5/7 returns more on the Stations, despite the very low likelihood. In fact, of that 48.33% that the lottery returns, the 7/7 is accountable for 32.33% of the return.

Short Answer

It sucks.

Quote: Greasyjohn

Thanks, Mission. I read the $1,175 figure on page 262 of the book 1000 Best Casino Gambling Secrets. They should have named the book 999 Best Casino Gambling Secrets.

I just noticed that the edition of the book I'm referring to was 2005. But I don't think the W-2G reporting amount was below $1,200 back then.