Gambling Trivia
Why Caesars Palace and not Caesar's Palace? One story goes that the large marquee frontage sign was constructed without the apostrophe and they just let the mistake go because it was too close to the hotel opening date to change it. Another story suggests that Jay Sarno, the builder and visionary behind Caesars, wanted all the guests visiting the property to feel like a Caesar, so the apostrophe was dropped between the r and the s. But then, why didn't they name it Caesars' Palace?
Quote: AyecarumbaHere's one:
The first gaming license in Las Vegas was issued to the Northern Club in 1931. The Northern Club is long gone, but what is on that site now?The address of the old Northern Club was 15 Fremont Street. Today, that site is occupied by the slots only "La Bayou" which is still next door to the Las Vegas Club. More details here
And before its current appellation it was named the Coin Castle, and before that it was named the Monte Carlo, and before that it was the Turf Club. Before that it was the Northern Club.
Question: What two tragic events occurred, one on Rancho Rd and one just off Rancho Rd in Las Vegas?
Answer: In 1995 Bob Stupak was involved in a motorcycle accident on Rancho Rd and Mason that almost cost him his life. Three years later, just 1/2 mile away on Palomino, just off Rancho Rd, Ted Binion died in his home under suspicious circumstances.
Ted Binion had a concrete bunker in Pahrump with six tons of silver bullion buried in it. What is on the site of the bunker today?
Answer: The Pahrump Nugget is built on the site.
Quote: GreasyjohnTrivia question: 10s reveal 10s and aces reveal aces when...?
...Hooters Casino holds a pro-am poker tournament?
Quote: ThatDonGuy...Hooters Casino holds a pro-am poker tournament?
C'mon, GJ, you have to admit this was funny!
As to the actual question, I haven't figured out what you're asking...seems cryptic leading to a trick answer and an aha moment.
Quote: GreasyjohnMy last question that went unanswered:
Ted Binion had a concrete bunker in Pahrump with six tons of silver bullion buried in it. What is on the site of the bunker today?
Answer: The Pahrump Nugget is built on the site.
Is it the casino itself? I thought the bunker was on property adjacent to the casino (which is why the guys raiding the vault with a backhoe in the middle of the night were spotted.)
Okay, I'm probably dense but I don't get the joke. As soon as I send this I will (that's how it works).
No trick answer. No cryptic question. Revealing and interesting.
Quote: GreasyjohnTrivia question: 10s reveal 10s and aces reveal aces when...?
Quote: mipletIt's some game show : Card Sharks ?
I don't know anything about that, but my answer is very clear, and interesting.
Quote: GreasyjohnQuote: mipletIt's some game show : Card Sharks ?
I don't know anything about that, but my answer is very clear, and interesting.
Seriously, back in 2009, there was a poker tournament at the Playboy mansion (hosted by the Kardashians) that included a few Playboy Playmates of the Year as well as a handful of professional poker players. Does it have something to do with that?
Quote: AyecarumbaIs it the casino itself? I thought the bunker was on property adjacent to the casino (which is why the guys raiding the vault with a backhoe in the middle of the night were spotted.)
You may be right, I was told by a Pahrump Nugget dealer that the casino was on the site. I assumed that the casino was built after 1998. Tried to Google it to find out but can't tell.
Quote: ThatDonGuyQuote: GreasyjohnQuote: mipletIt's some game show : Card Sharks ?
I don't know anything about that, but my answer is very clear, and interesting.
Seriously, back in 2009, there was a poker tournament at the Playboy mansion (hosted by the Kardashians) that included a few Playboy Playmates of the Year as well as a handful of professional poker players. Does it have something to do with that?
No, it didn't have anything to do with that. (Any idea why BBB thought that was funny?)
Quote: GreasyjohnAny idea why BBB thought that was funny?)
A Big Grey Goose?
Quote: AyecarumbaA Big Grey Goose?
Now there's 2 things I don't get.
Please tell me you're not getting information from casino employees, especially ones from Pahrump.Quote: GreasyjohnYou may be right, I was told by a Pahrump Nugget dealer that the casino was on the site. I assumed that the casino was built after 1998. Tried to Google it to find out but can't tell.
Quote: GreasyjohnTrivia question: 10s reveal 10s and aces reveal aces when...?
Clue: 12 mm vs 4 mm.
Quote: ThatDonGuyQuote: GreasyjohnQuote: mipletIt's some game show : Card Sharks ?
I don't know anything about that, but my answer is very clear, and interesting.
Seriously, back in 2009, there was a poker tournament at the Playboy mansion (hosted by the Kardashians) that included a few Playboy Playmates of the Year as well as a handful of professional poker players. Does it have something to do with that?
Was Bill Cosby there?
Quote: GreasyjohnClue: 12 mm vs 4 mm.
The peek device on the BJ tables.
Quote: DRichThe peek device on the BJ tables.
10s, aces, 12 mm, 4mm, and...?
Quote: DRichThe peek device on the BJ tables.
Well, DRich, you were headed in the right direction.
As most of you know, in the game of blackjack, when the dealer has a 10-value or ace as an up-card they will check for blackjack. Most all blackjack games use a card reader or peek device for this purpose. With these readers an ace up-card can only read 10-value cards, and 10-value up-cards can only read aces. 10-value up-cards are placed in this reader vertically, and ace up-cards are placed into this device horizontally.
I was playing blackjack recently and a funny thing happened. The dealer had a 10-value up-card. She checked for blackjack, didn’t have it, and play continued against a full table. Out of 6 players that started the hand there were 4 players, including myself, that were still in the hand when it came time for the dealer to play her two cards. So she flips over her hole-card and she has an ace. She had blackjack all along and didn’t stop the hand after peeking and collect all the wagers (there were no player blackjacks that would push).
So what happened? Well, I guess it’s possible that she placed her 10 up-card in the reader, and the reader malfunctioned and she got a green light. No one really remembers. But what I think was more likely is that she placed the 10-value up-card in the reader horizontally, which would also give a green light signal. Under these circumstances, as long as the down-card was not a 10-value card the reader would give a green light, because if 10s are placed in the reader horizontally (a mistake) then the reader will only read 10s. (Likewise, when aces are mistakenly placed vertically in the reader only aces can be seen in the reader.)
The dealer in this story was a break-in. After the oddity of her blackjack was discovered the pit boss called all the hands dead, and nobody lost their wager--even the two players that busted out of the hand. Pretty nice, considering the dealer had us all beat.
If you are ever at a blackjack table and you see a dealer place a 10-value up-card in the reader horizontally and she doesn’t have blackjack, it doesn’t mean she doesn’t have a blackjack, it means she doesn’t have 20 and the light would be green. And if she places her ace in the reader vertically and she doesn’t have a blackjack, it doesn’t mean she doesn’t have blackjack, it just means she doesn’t have an ace in the hole and the light would be green. Of course, in these two scenarios, a red light means she doesn’t have a blackjack either.
So, if you ever see a dealer wrongly place an up-card into a reader, don't correct her. She might turn over a red light 20 or A,A, and you'd be playing with full knowledge of her two cards. Or she might have what turns out to be a green light blackjack. You might get a dead hand declared against the blackjack.
(It is my experience that most casinos use a peeking device with a red/green light to indicate whether a dealer has blackjack. Some casinos use a prism. In the examples above where a dealer had a red light 10,10 or A,A, and exposed their hand, it would not be unlikely to expose their hand with a prism-type device also, because a prism device would show an image instead of nothing. Usually, seeing any image requires no interpretation--they have blackjack. Of course, some dealers would notice that the prism image is the same as their up-card and wonder how this could be. The answer is 90 degrees away.)
So the answer to the trivia riddle is: 10s reveal 10s and aces reveal aces when... either 10s or aces are placed in the blackjack reader device facing the wrong direction.
I have a deck of playing cards given to me years ago by the Golden Gate. They do not have the 10/ace offset (they peeked back then without a device). It’s fun owning this vintage deck of cards. (Looking closer at my three dozen decks of casino playing cards I've noticed that I have several decks from that era.)
Oh, and a 52-card deck of playing cards weighs almost exactly 3 oz. So my weight in decks is 939.
I hope this mental exercise helps keep my mind nimble instead of having the opposite effect. (Given the corrections and modifications I've made since my first effort at this discourse, it's a little of both.)
You were being cryptic in saying something clever without context as a riddle. And then decoding it as a procedural error when the reader was misused.
So, when the Hooter's reference came up, my mind flashed into the gutter a bit, right with him. The 10s were then the waitresses (common top-of-woman-rating-scale for men), and if their shirts slip just a little or they bend down some....you get a look at what makes them "10s". So you, being an Ace, have a natural hormonal reaction, the tent pole being shaped like an A (Ace) under the fabric of your pants. And so I thought, given your cryptic riddle, it was pretty funny...though if it has to be explained like this it probably loses something. Maybe not. :)
Sorry, Very few 10's anywhere, especially hooters I'm highly disappointed they don't live up to my vision of what Hooters casino employees should look like. I give the place a 6.5 due to my disappointment.Quote: beachbumbabsThe 10s were then the waitresses )
PS if anyone has information on there Bounce back please PM me.
Quote: AxelWolfSorry, Very few 10's anywhere, especially hooters I'm highly disappointed they don't live up to my vision of what Hooters casino employees should look like. I give the place a 6.5 due to my disappointment.
PS if anyone has information on there Bounce back please PM me.
Well, I think I've been to a Hooter's twice since they opened, so I'm probably not a good judge of where they would fall on anybody's scale (along with being female - other women don't do much for me). But I would have hoped they'd find better than 6.5's since their whole marketing plan is based on having hot women servers.
Sure they do have many over 6.5, however they get a lower grade since my expectation was 9s and 10s but they have 6s, 7s, 8s.Quote: beachbumbabsWell, I think I've been to a Hooter's twice since they opened, so I'm probably not a good judge of where they would fall on anybody's scale (along with being female - other women don't do much for me). But I would have hoped they'd find better than 6.5's since their whole marketing plan is based on having hot women servers.
Quote: AxelWolfSure they do have many over 6.5, however they get a lower grade since my expectation was 9s and 10s but they have 6s, 7s, 8s.
My first visit to a Hooters was in Las Vegas, and it was kind of a let down. I was expecting something classier. It was like flirting at the hot dog stand in the Home Depot parking lot.
Quote: beachbumbabsSo, GJ, interesting observation, as it turns out from your explanation.
You were being cryptic in saying something clever without context as a riddle. And then decoding it as a procedural error when the reader was misused.
So, when the Hooter's reference came up, my mind flashed into the gutter a bit, right with him. The 10s were then the waitresses (common top-of-woman-rating-scale for men), and if their shirts slip just a little or they bend down some....you get a look at what makes them "10s". So you, being an Ace, have a natural hormonal reaction, the tent pole being shaped like an A (Ace) under the fabric of your pants. And so I thought, given your cryptic riddle, it was pretty funny...though if it has to be explained like this it probably loses something. Maybe not. :)
BBB, if I told you some of my dreams would you help me interpret them?
Quote: GreasyjohnAs most of you know, aces and 10-value cards have two of their number/index extended closer to the upper and lower edge of casino playing cards, while all the other cards in the deck don’t. The aces have their upper right and lower left index extended to 4 mm from the upper and lower edges of the cards. The 10-value cards are reversed–they have their upper left and lower right number/index extended to 4mm from the upper and lower card edge. All the other cards have a 12 mm gap between their numbers and the upper and lower edges.
That sounds like the Tech Art way of marking the tens and aces. The No-Peek way marks the opposite corners. (See http://www.gemacocards.com/casino/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/01/face-styles.pdf )
Quote: GreasyjohnI think was more likely is that she placed the 10-value up-card in the reader vertically, which would also give a green light signal. Under these circumstances, as long as the down-card was not a 10-value card the reader would give a green light, because if 10s are placed in the reader vertically (a mistake) then the reader will only read 10s. (Likewise, when aces are mistakenly placed horizontally in the reader only aces can be seen in the reader.)
The important part isn't the "horizontal" or "vertical" orientation of the cards - the important part is putting the marked corner into the reader. At most casinos I have seen, a ten-up hand is checked "vertically", and an ace-up hand is checked "horizontally". (See http://www.techartinc.com/maxtime.shtml - useful images on the side.)
It sounds like the place you were had a hole-card device that was designed for one type of markings, and was using cards with a different set of markings. (It changes whether you put the cards in from the left, or from the right. From the dealer's viewpoint, No-Peek readers read the "lower left" corner, Tech Art readers read the "lower right" corner.) The only time you would properly turn a ten-up hand to put it into the reader is if you were using dismatched cards and readers, and needed to do so to put the marked corner into the reader (like using Tech Art type faces with a No-Peek type reader).
It's never about "horizontal" or "vertical" - it's always about putting the marked corner into the reader. When the cards are back to back (as they should be, when using a reader), a natural 21 will have the same corners marked, top and bottom. The dealer is looking for a marking on the hole card.
If this sounds like it's splitting hairs, well... this is the trivia thread. :)
Actually there are now too two restaurant chains that are proud of their "well beyond Hooters" marketing strategy, but I still think all these "scale rankings" are more enhanced by a smile than by size or the amount of skin being exposed.Quote: beachbumbabsWell, I think I've been to a Hooter's twice since they opened, so I'm probably not a good judge of where they would fall on anybody's scale (along with being female - other women don't do much for me). But I would have hoped they'd find better than 6.5's since their whole marketing plan is based on having hot women servers.
Hooters as a hotel is liked by some. Hooters as a casino is a different matter. They have awful rotations and most of the dealers are very unhappy there, management is lackluster too. So a Hooters anywhere else in the country might be a pleasant experience but in Vegas its going to be pretty much the bottom of the barrel.
Quote: DieterThat sounds like the Tech Art way of marking the tens and aces. The No-Peek way marks the opposite corners. (See http://www.gemacocards.com/casino/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/01/face-styles.pdf )
Quote: GreasyjohnI think was more likely is that she placed the 10-value up-card in the reader vertically, which would also give a green light signal. Under these circumstances, as long as the down-card was not a 10-value card the reader would give a green light, because if 10s are placed in the reader vertically (a mistake) then the reader will only read 10s. (Likewise, when aces are mistakenly placed horizontally in the reader only aces can be seen in the reader.)
The important part isn't the "horizontal" or "vertical" orientation of the cards - the important part is putting the marked corner into the reader. At most casinos I have seen, a ten-up hand is checked "vertically", and an ace-up hand is checked "horizontally". (See http://www.techartinc.com/maxtime.shtml - useful images on the side.)
It sounds like the place you were had a hole-card device that was designed for one type of markings, and was using cards with a different set of markings. (It changes whether you put the cards in from the left, or from the right. From the dealer's viewpoint, No-Peek readers read the "lower left" corner, Tech Art readers read the "lower right" corner.) The only time you would properly turn a ten-up hand to put it into the reader is if you were using dismatched cards and readers, and needed to do so to put the marked corner into the reader (like using Tech Art type faces with a No-Peek type reader).
It's never about "horizontal" or "vertical" - it's always about putting the marked corner into the reader. When the cards are back to back (as they should be, when using a reader), a natural 21 will have the same corners marked, top and bottom. The dealer is looking for a marking on the hole card.
If this sounds like it's splitting hairs, well... this is the trivia thread. :)
Not at all, Dieter. I'm glad you set me straight. It doesn't change the conclusions of my post but it changes the mechanics. I actually called MaxTime. Guy on the phone agreed with me that it's not something you really think about--which is vertical, which is horizontal. But I would have thought after all these years that I would know which card is placed which way. Called a casino that I play at and asked. Aces go in sideways. You're the first one to note my error. I'll correct my post.
You know, just to share, it is lodged in my mind that the cards are usually placed in the reader vertically. That, of course, should make it obvious that 10s are placed in the reader vertically as there are 16 10-value cards in the deck and only 4 aces.
And another thing. With an ace up-card there is about a 31% chance that the dealer has a blackjack. With a 10 up there is an almost 8% chance. I know the math, but I've never thought about it when playing the game--never thought how much less likely it is that the dealer would have blackjack with a 10 up. And part of the reason is because, with a 10 up there's no decision on the part of the player involving counting or insurance.
Quote: GreasyjohnAces go in sideways.
Glad to help!
This is observed as common table procedure. When a dealer has an Ace up and offers insurance, they typically:
- Announce "dealer shows an Ace" (not all dealers do this, but it's probably part of the written procedure)
- Rotate the dealers hand 90 degrees counterclockwise
- Announce "Insurance is open"
- Sweep hand along the smile bar (insurance line), palm up, clockwise
- Announce "Insurance is closed"
- Sweep hand along the smile bar (insurance line), palm down, counter-clockwise
- Insert dealer's hand into the hole-card device
- Remove dealer's hand from the hole-card device
- Rotate the dealer's hand 90 degrees clockwise
- Either open the hand and settle the bets (in case of dealer natural), or proceed with the play of the hand
If we have any dealers (or expert players) from 25-30 years ago or more ("before hole card readers"), I'd be interested to hear what the procedures used to be when checking for a snapper. (Different for ace up vs ten up? Rotated? Not rotated?)
I also expect that Riva will be interested in the old procedures, since I think they may be still relevant to his games.
In Vegas, Golden Gate was the last casino that I recall to implement a reader.
Quote: GreasyjohnI played before readers. I definitely remember that some dealers would not check for a blackjack with a 10-value up-card until after all the hands were played. And then, if the dealer had a blackjack, you'd only lose your original wager. And, of course, the hands were never rotated because there was no reader.
That's interesting.
Not quite what I'd expect from a game protection standpoint - I would expect that rotating the cards when peeking would mean the cards are more likely to be lifted rather than bent, eliminating a tell. Not peeking under the 10's has its own advantages (and disadvantages), however.
I'm reasonably comfortable guessing that peeking (or not) under 10's was a house policy, rather than a dealer choice.
Quote: DieterThat's interesting.
Not quite what I'd expect from a game protection standpoint - I would expect that rotating the cards when peeking would mean the cards are more likely to be lifted rather than bent, eliminating a tell. Not peeking under the 10's has its own advantages (and disadvantages), however.
I'm reasonably comfortable guessing that peeking (or not) under 10's was a house policy, rather than a dealer choice.
As you know, in checking for a blackjack, lifting up the back left of the hole-card allows a view of the index/image. Dealers would hold their left hand perpindicular to the table to shield the view as they peeked. I never saw a dealer rotate the cards for a peek like you see poker players do. When sitting near first base I never saw an exposed view, and I was looking--I have read books about cheating and game protection. You mentioned a tell so you're familiar with reading boats and bridges? And yes, peeking with a 10 up-card was either house policy or it wasn't, never a dealer option. This was my experience.
Quote: GreasyjohnYou mentioned a tell so you're familiar with reading boats and bridges?
I don't recall that specific term, but after about 12 seconds of contemplation it's obvious what it means.
You also have the potential tell of the dealer's actions or demeanor changing based on hole card knowledge, which may be a tell (or collusion). (This is a huge motivator to use the reader device, rather than having the dealer peek directly.)
Yet look at places such as The M and Tuscany ... places where either to this day or for a significant amount of time were largely no rotation houses. I don't think bottom lines suffered or surveillance detected any more shenanigans going on.
M Resort had a policy of dealers bid or get assigned to a game for a calendar month. So Black Jack table 17 would have one dealer per shift every day for a month. First day of month... it all changed in one great massive shuffle. Dice Dealers still rotated but were at the same table with stick showing clean hands and then going on break but returning to the same table.
Tuscany had a policy of Empty Table means Dealer stands in aisle, speaks to passers by and MUST provide training lessons on demand if he has no players. There were rotations but they were not every twenty minutes, it was more like two per shift. Dealers did have to alert FloorPerson and introduce Floor to all Friends, spouses and relatives.
Quote: DieterI don't recall that specific term, but after about 12 seconds of contemplation it's obvious what it means.
You also have the potential tell of the dealer's actions or demeanor changing based on hole card knowledge, which may be a tell (or collusion). (This is a huge motivator to use the reader device, rather than having the dealer peek directly.)
If I'm not mistaken, Steve Forte wrote a powerful book on dealer tells. I think it's considered the bible on the topic. (How, exactly, he got out of that predicament at the Borgata--I'd love to know. The whole story is too long and exhausting to figure out. And he's just saying the charges were dropped; other than that he's not talking. I think he did it.)
In a prior post you had a link to MaxTime. I looked for photos of readers on the Internet. Some readers view the bottom right corner of 10s (like MaxTime) and some the bottom left. Lots of different types. Anyone that has played a lot of blackjack has seen them all.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=+blackjack+peeking+device+red%2Fgreen+light+photos
Quote: GreasyjohnGoogle: blackjack peeking device red/green light photos
http://www.amazon.com/Peek-Blackjack-Hole-Card-Reader/dp/B0080SZSEW
Quote: RSDo any casinos exist today (in LV) without a reader still?
I haven't noticed any, and I would remember that little feature. Golden Gate was the last to switch over that I can remember. I think Westward Ho was also one of the last to make the change, but not certain of that.
Quote: beachbumbabsI dealt blackjack for a year 1983-4, SD pitch game face down. We did not have readers. Procedure was to lay the edge of your left hand (holding the deck) on the felt along the left side of the hand, rotate dealer's hand about 30 degrees clockwise, place last 2 fingers of right hand on top of far edge of hand near the corner, lean down, and pull up close left corner with thumb, not bending the card enough to crimp it. Cards were Bee's Club Specials (I still have my practice deck).
How neat is that. Where did you deal? Any other games? Your best stories? Why do you leave the business? What was your Friday? Best George?
They brought in a trainer from a Vegas school and we spent 2 weeks at it. We dressed as you'd expect, but the cocktails were responsible for most of the stories; they were dressed like Bunnies without the ears and in super-high heels, and the hotel paid a premium to hire only beauty queens, so there were some stunning women working there. They also got most of any high-dollar tips; the dealers were usually an afterthought. I enjoyed it very much; it was mostly men, business travelers. There was also live music most nights, but at a background level, so not too hard to operate. The tables were usually open 5pm-2am so they only needed one shift of dealers, and most of the business was weeknights, so I had a great schedule working Sun-Thurs. evenings.
No idea if they still do it; I haven't been to SF in over 20 years, but I enjoyed working there. I was waiting to hear from the Feds about my ATC application, which took over a year to process, and working days at Citibank in various departments, so quite busy. When the ATC school came through, I left both for Oklahoma.
Quote: beachbumbabsBJ had just been approved in South Dakota, and the Holiday Inn in Sioux Falls put in 3 tables and advertised for dealers (at the time, that was the 2nd best hotel in town; no idea now). They said they would train, so I applied and got selected. Table limits were only $2, and BJ was the only game allowed, so it was all I dealt (though sometimes we played for hotel scrip people could redeem against hotel charges; then the denom's could be bigger, but still red-chip play).
They brought in a trainer from a Vegas school and we spent 2 weeks at it. We dressed as you'd expect, but the cocktails were responsible for most of the stories; they were dressed like Bunnies without the ears and in super-high heels, and the hotel paid a premium to hire only beauty queens, so there were some stunning women working there. They also got most of any high-dollar tips; the dealers were usually an afterthought. I enjoyed it very much; it was mostly men, business travelers. There was also live music most nights, but at a background level, so not too hard to operate. The tables were usually open 5pm-2am so they only needed one shift of dealers, and most of the business was weeknights, so I had a great schedule working Sun-Thurs. evenings.
No idea if they still do it; I haven't been to SF in over 20 years, but I enjoyed working there. I was waiting to hear from the Feds about my ATC application, which took over a year to process, and working days at Citibank in various departments, so quite busy. When the ATC school came through, I left both for Oklahoma.
Nice description of your time dealing. Is that Air Traffic Control? It goes with Oklahoma. "PSA flight 402 at the outer marker runway 26 right."
Quote: GreasyjohnNice description of your time dealing. Is that Air Traffic Control? It goes with Oklahoma. "PSA flight 402 at the outer marker runway 26 right."
Yes, it is. I did that for 25 years, have retired.
I miss PSA. All their airplanes had smiles painted under the nose, and their pilots were easily the friendliest/happiest people I worked any given day.
