A tale of two casinos ...

Here is a tale of two casinos: The Riviera and The Sahara.

Now don't get me wrong here... I didn't create this. I stole it from Poker Girl in Vegas. And I've edited it a bit too. I think this is a perfect illustration of what is wrong with Vegas and its crying about empty rooms.

So courtesy of some knock-out broad who plays poker, here are her recent comments:

I went to the Riviera today because they were giving away free slot play. Um, yeah, guess how much I got??
Yeah, I got a whole freaking dollar. I played that one stinking dollar and did not put another dime in their machines. I was so fxxxing annoyed that I drove there, parked, rode the elevator, walked all through the casino in heels, filled out paperwork to the get the card, found a machine that was playable and they have the never to give me a dollar?? I'm boycotting that place now. You guys should do the same. It's a dump anyway.

Versus:

The Sahara
Yes, it's old and next to Crack town USA, but the players club is bomb! When you join you get a free spin on this slot machine and it gives out free slot play. Then, everyday for eternity you get one free spin per day. Great deal! Especially for locals that live nearby.

For every 100 points you earn, you get a five dollar bill and Five Dollars in free slot play. Every time you play you earn comps that can be used in the gift shop and restaurants etc. No hassle!

It's not over... As you are earning points and earning comps, you are also earning drawing entries for a drawing that is done twice a day. More free prizes and slot play are given away via this drawing.

Last but not least, they have a daily slot tournament everyday of the week from Tuesday through Saturday. And its free to all players club members. I was sitting next to a girl the other night and she got second place in the slot tourney and she had two hundred bucks in free slot play that she was using!! Color me jealous.

Oh yeah and then today in the mail I got a card from the Sahara. They sent me fifty dollars in free slot play to use this month!!!! Holy crap! I love the Sahara. Love love love. And, I'm not kidding...,. they have great machines that pay off. I win like crazy every time I play there.

This knock out broad in heels walked through two different casinos recently and had totally different reactions. I'll admit that her resolve to never go back to one place and her obvious love for the other place will neither make nor break either casino, yet one has to think that one of those casinos seems to be doing the right thing!

Why do casinos insist on giving away One Freaking Dollar and then complain about the recession? The airlines? The newly opened casinos? The competition from other states? When are the casinos going to realize that when times are tough, One Freaking Dollar just won't cut it!

Sure. Some of those slot deals can be less than they appear to be, but note what was valued: Comps, Points, Contests and No Hassles!

So when will Vegas executives stop complaining about the recession and start listening to a knock out broad who likes to put a few bucks through their slot machines?

Steve Wynn talked about tightening his belt rather than making deep cuts, but he seems to have made deep cuts.

Hotel rooms? This is how a Local was treated. Room rates? One Freaking Dollar discount on a room rate won't cut it. But a room rate at the Sahara was offered via Twitter ... even with the resort fee it was a total of 7.15 for the room. Sold out real fast. And now all those Sahara club members monitor their twitter feeds real closely! Vegas has to give up the One Freaking Dollar mentality of worthless knick knacks. Deep discounts, Free This and Free That and No Hassles. Bite down on the bullet Vegas!!

Wait a sec ...

A dollar?


You mean, like, a WHOLE dollar?

Precisely.
Such a miserly attitude at the Riviera.

Whereas the Sahara has its Drink plus the shot glass for One Dollar.
And recently offered their rooms for one dollar via Twitter.

How can Vegas be groaning so about The Recession or The Oversupply ... when its obvious that Vegas just has to start treating their customers better. Its not just that "a WHOLE dollar?" but that attitude about it that persists in tough times. Knick and Knack simply can no longer cut it! Not in this economy. Not with this oversupply of rooms.

I remember a dealer telling me how she had a customer that was playing and went for the big one and won $5K. He tossed her a 50 cent tip. It's much much worse than not getting tipped at all.

It is surprising how much money these executives are paid to come up with these promotions. They would be better off offering to beat you with a leather strap. At least they would get the masochist crowd.

Sahara has always tried to attract the locals. It has to, since the property can't get much more bare bones. No buffet, no specialty dining (2 coffee shops and a steak house). There are lots of low minimum, but high HA blackjack with every kind of side bet you can think of.

I guess we could argue some points but in general I think the two places are comparable. Sharp gamblers probably would go to neither of them. I was focusing more on the attitudes. Black jack is probably equally disadvantageous in each of the casinos. The food pretty bland in each of them. But atleast one place doesn't try to offer a whole dollar and then blame The Recession or Over Supply. The Sahara seems to be doing what is necessary to market a bare-bones low rollers joint. The Riviera seems to be living in the past with its One Freakin' Dollar attempt to market a low rollers joint that is not all that much better than the Sahara.

Remember, these comments were by someone who puts a few bucks through slot machines, not by a calculator toting math whiz who has a real bankroll. That one freakin' dollar attitude is a carry over from before the recession.

I think I have an example of the Riviera being even more miserly, if you can believe it. I printed out this coupon thinking I would go to the promotions desk, hand over $20 and have $40 in play applied to my card. That seems to be what the coupon offers.

Instead I was told that $20 would buy me $40 in promotional slot play to be used at a bank of machines in the players' club area. A closer look at the machines showed them to be the kind where small wins pay nothing and big wins pay a greatly reduced amount. Like the poker chick, I went through the hassle of parking all the way at the opposite end of the property and schelpping to the promotions desk only to be annoyed by the Riv's cheapness.

A total waste of time and effort.

One thing I do like about the Riv is that it has an automated video blackjack station that pays 3-2. We'll see how long that lasts.

Quote: nyuhoosier

Like the poker chick, I went through the hassle of parking all the way at the opposite end of the property and schelpping to the promotions desk only to be annoyed by the Riv's cheapness.

Actually "shclep" is a verb meaning to lug or haul something. See almost any of the Wizard's hotel reviews, where he uses it correctly saying he had "to schlep my luggage all the way across the casino." I doubt the coupon was that heavy ;)

You're absolutely right, and I can't even claim I was referring to my oxygen tank.

It appears we both typed it incorrectly, though.

Anyone else agree that some of the best words are Yiddish in origin? Here is a LINK to 40 Yiddish words you should know, including my favorite, schmuck.

Yeah, yiddish has some of the best words.

But your use of 'schlep' is acceptable. After all, like a shlemiel, you schlepped your tuches all over that varschtinkana place, and for what? Bupkes!


FYI - From that Yiddish words page:

Quote:

shlep
To drag, traditionally something you don’t really need; to carry unwillingly.
When people "shlep around," they are dragging themselves, perhaps slouchingly.
On vacation, when I’m the one who ends up carrying the heavy suitcase I begged my wife to leave at home, I shlep it.

Quote: nyuhoosier

I went through the hassle of parking
A total waste of time and effort.

The critical point is that none of this behavior by a casino is proper, given today's economy.

Quote: nyuhoosier

One thing I do like about the Riv is that it has an automated video blackjack station that pays 3-2. We'll see how long that lasts.

Please tell me about the blackjack station--rules, bet size etc.

From the review it appears that the reviewer didn't play at the i-tables but did note that there were five and ten dollar minimum bet i-tables.

Quote: matilda

Please tell me about the blackjack station--rules, bet size etc.

The rules are usually: 6 decks, H17, double after split, no surrender.

The minimum is usually 2 or 3 bucks. Side bets vary but are usually either something like 10-1 for a pair and 15-1 for a suited pair OR something like 5-1 for two cards of the same suit.

The major difference is whether it pays 3-2 or 6-5 for a blackjack. These are a few of the places where I've seen the full-odds version:

Golden Nugget, Vegas Club, Riviera, Westin.

Quote: FleaStiff

Here is a tale of two casinos: The Riviera and The Sahara.

Heck, lets add a third casino:

"...I stopped in Dotty's tonight because, well, basically I was thirsty and since they only have like 12 machines, you always get served quickly. Even though I'm just ordering soda or hot chocolate or water, it still takes forever in a big casino! I only had a few bucks, so I figured I'd spend a few minutes there, lose, and head on home. Instead, a few minutes after I sat down, the bartender comes over and says "It's your lucky day" and hands me a twenty dollar bill. Apparently they do that a few times a day at random and I got picked today. Very cool. "

Now I know that casinos would go broke if they handed twenty dollars to everyone in the place all day long so don't think I'm advocating that. I wonder about the "it still takes forever in a big casino". Are these smaller licensed casinos doing a better job of customer service? As Las Vegas has to deal with the whole darn country having casinos all over the place, is ALL of Las Vegas about to become a Locals Market? Maybe those big casinos have to quicken their pace a bit? If Dotty's can lure customers away by offering fast beverages, maybe those big casinos had better abandon their policies of making the customer wait forever and then only get a watered down splash in a glass. Perhaps Las Vegas really is living in the past.

The problem with the slow beverage service is caused by many things.

It is NOT necessarily deliberate, although I wouldn't put it past them.


The problem with the slow service at the big casinos is, simply, because they are big.

A waitress has to get orders from several tables, perhaps spectators too, walk a great distance to the service bar, wait her turn to place the order, wait for the drinks, then walk all the way back to the tables to start serving them - while taking new orders at the same time.

Add the fact that far too few waitresses or dealers make good efforts to make the players aware that they are there to take orders, and it seems like the waitress never comes around.


The reason a dinky casino can do it faster is, simply, because it's dinky.

The waitress only has to take a couple orders, walk a few steps, get a few drinks then walk a few steps to deliver them.

Quote: nyuhoosier

One thing I do like about the Riv is that it has an automated video blackjack station that pays 3-2. We'll see how long that lasts.

I'm not a blackjack player, and only barely understand the game. However, it seems to me that a video machine would cost less (expense wise) that a live dealer. Does anybody if this is true or not? If it is true, then it would make sense that video machines could afford to pay better on the blackjack (3:2) than a live dealer (6:5) since the expense would be less.

Quote: konceptum

I'm not a blackjack player, and only barely understand the game. However, it seems to me that a video machine would cost less (expense wise) that a live dealer. Does anybody if this is true or not?

Many factors involved.

First the machine costs more than a BJ table. Next it uses up electricity 24/7 and requires periodic maintenance, but that may cost less than the salary and benefits (if any) of several dealers (assuming the table would also be open 24/7).

Next it gets really complicated: will it attract enough players?

As the adage has it, it takes all kinds. Some poeple prefer playing the machine, some prefer the table. Having better payoff may attract some players who may prefer the table. Also since I've heard it uses a different virtual shoe per player, the decisions of other players don't affect your game. Finally you don't tip the machine.

I don't knwo how this all rbeaks down. But the cost may be lower and the profit greater. IF the profit isn't greater, then the machine will be out the door soon enough. As I recall, i saw a BJ machine at Riviera in May 09.

Those electronic dealers are cute but they never take breaks or ask for raises or take vacations or seek health benefits. I understand however that the primary advantage to the casino is the increase in speed of play and hence this is the primary disadvantage to the player.

Perhaps so.
I think that maybe those slot machines that allow players to place their drink orders onscreen may be the right idea.
Also the M Resort installed all those soda machines to take the burden off cocktail waitresses.

Yes, a smaller casino can be more efficient. Its fewer steps and a lighter drink tray. And I guess players will always refer to CWs as Tray Lizzard no matter how fast they actually are. I just wonder if the current recession is sufficient to get casinos to make some real changes.

Quote: nyuhoosier

I think I have an example of the Riviera being even more miserly, if you can believe it. I printed out this coupon thinking I would go to the promotions desk, hand over $20 and have $40 in play applied to my card. That seems to be what the coupon offers.

Instead ...small wins pay nothing and big wins pay a greatly reduced amount.
A total waste of time and effort.

Actually when I looked at the coupon I was immediately suspicious of its being one of these Only One Machine specials. Thats how they can guarantee that win 40, win 100 stuff.
It is a come-on, and its a rip off that shows the Riviera is not biting the bullet and dealing with the recession properly.

Even if its someone who is not jaded enough to be suspicious, anyone reading the coupon should know what is happening.
If they really don't want to give forty dollars in free play in return for twenty dollars, then don't pretend to do that.

I wonder if a nearby casino would ever print out stacks and stacks of those coupons just to drive fleas to the Riviera?

Since its a bum deal they should not be offering it. If they offer it they should be far more explicit about it.
Its time for Vegas to wake up and realize that "optimal shearing of the sheep" is not their goal.

I printed out the coupon, and I hope to try to use it next week, probably on Thursday. If it is a gimmick slot machine, and the "free gift" is not worth over $20, I'll consider writing a letter of complaint to Gaming over it. In my opinion, the casinos have been running too fast and loose with their promotion advertising. Any locals want to join me in giving this a try on 11/11?

Quote: Wizard

the casinos have been running too fast and loose with their promotion advertising.

That is true. So many of the special deals that are advertised have fine print that makes the headlines utterly misleading.
I actually sent an email to Tuscany Resorts quite some time ago about that website of theirs wherein they stated "the odds are in your favor", since it seemed a strange way to run a casino. A few weeks later they changed their website. I think they guessed what my next move was going to be.

Las Vegas has to compete with Indian casinos being everywhere, security screenings being lengthy and intrusive, flight delays, ... and the way to compete is to stop thinking its the good old days where false and misleading "offers" would be tolerated.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

The reason a dinky casino can do it faster is, simply, because it's dinky.

Although I would hate this particular feature of Dotty's, it seems that Dotty's mails a check to card holders at the end of each month and then re-sets their player club balance to zero.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

The reason a dinky casino can do it faster is, simply, because it's dinky.

Although I would hate this particular feature of Dotty's, it seems that Dotty's mails a check to card holders at the end of each month and then re-sets their player club balance to zero.

I was referring to fast drink service.

It's faster in a dinky place because the waitress doesn't have to waste time walking a mile to the service bar.

Yes, much faster. Also when there are fewer waitresses and fewer bartenders there are fewer opportunities for any miscommunication. Also in smaller places a waitress has real clout. If she 86's someone, they are 86'd for sure. No appeal and no other waitress wll wander by.

Dotty's is liked sometimes becasue of their quick drink service and their occasional twenty dollar bill to a lucky customer.

I think the smaller casinos can be more efficient in that manner. No forms, no levels of management or anything like that. Its just that a smaller casino is far more dependent upon the immediate neighborhood. A larger casino has a "draw" from a larger area an d can have special offers that appeal to wide range of players.

Quote: Wizard

I printed out the coupon, and I hope to try to use it next week, probably on Thursday. If it is a gimmick slot machine, and the "free gift" is not worth over $20, I'll consider writing a letter of complaint to Gaming over it. In my opinion, the casinos have been running too fast and loose with their promotion advertising. Any locals want to join me in giving this a try on 11/11?

How did this turn out?

Quote: FleaStiff

Dotty's is liked sometimes becasue of their quick drink service and their occasional twenty dollar bill to a lucky customer.

Too much success catches up to Dotty's by Howard Stutz.

Howard says that Dotty's has been successful in their business model during the recession. Since December 1995 when the original four Dotty casinos opened, they have expanded to 64 locations. Dotty's employs 500 workers and uses 1,251 slot machines statewide. There are plans to open three new Dotty's this year. A voter-enacted ban on smoking where food is cooked and the tanking Southern Nevada economy combined to close dozens of taverns and bars in Las Vegas. Dotty's swooped in, acquired shuttered locations and opened others. Dotty's doesn't operate kitchens, so smoking is allowed. The locations have prepackaged food, minimal beverage options, and focus heavily on gaming.

Dotty's is privately owned, and does not report financial information, but the statewide daily average for a slot machine in an unrestricted license establishment is $109 per machine per day. That would average to $50 million per year. I suspect that Dotty's makes more than average per machine, particularly because smokers have so few places where they can dash off too where they can smoke in private.

They are being challenged over whether the locations can really be considered taverns or not.

>Rival tavern owners want to copy the Dotty's model.
Also owners of local casinos want to keep additional customers from defecting to Dotty's.

The same argument was used in Oregon when the state lottery wanted to end their lottery sales on the grounds that the establishment really had insignificant non-gambling income.

Note: I admit that some smokers may indeed fell that their Dotty's is their last bastion in which they can light up in peace, but some Dotty's establishments are indeed non-smoking.

Quote: FleaStiff

This knock out broad in heels walked through two different casinos recently and had totally different reactions. I'll admit that her resolve to never go back to one place and her obvious love for the other place will neither make nor break either casino, yet one has to think that one of those casinos seems to be doing the right thing!
Why do casinos insist on giving away One Freaking Dollar and then complain about the recession?!

Well, history will be recording this battle.
The Riviera with its One Freaking Dollar is, I believe, in bankruptcy.
The Sahara with its more generous policies is soon to be closing.

So who was right and who was wrong? Is the marketplace really the final arbiter of right and wrong? I think the Sahara executives merit a round of applause. The Sahara is going under but with its colors flying!

Yes, the Sahara cheapened itself with its One Dollar offerings, including its one dollar rooms. Yet it did it with style. It embraced technology to give away rooms on Twitter for one dollar. Its management tried.

Riviera remained cheap and selfish, but its management survived.

Sort of like two aging hookers, but at least one of them had class.

Quote: FleaStiff

This knock out broad in heels walked through two different casinos recently and had totally different reactions. I'll admit that her resolve to never go back to one place and her obvious love for the other place will neither make nor break either casino, yet one has to think that one of those casinos seems to be doing the right thing!
Why do casinos insist on giving away One Freaking Dollar and then complain about the recession? The airlines? The newly opened casinos? The competition from other states? When are the casinos going to realize that when times are tough, One Freaking Dollar just won't cut it!
Sure. Some of those slot deals can be less than they appear to be, but note what was valued: Comps, Points, Contests and No Hassles!
!

Las Vegas Sun article on the "new" format for smaller casinos, such as Club Fortune in Henderson: A smaller casino that adds to its staff (and pays them very well), has new customers, new equipment, but keeps a low key, low profile of simple prizes and simple rules. Cheap food. Taking customers from the larger locals casinos into the smaller simpler casino.