Ray Rice suspension
Maybe he should just change his name like the bach pros do and just try out as RJ Simpson. hey heyQuote: soxfanI imagine he'll be suiting up for a CFL squad in the near future, hey hey.
Quote: soxfanI imagine he'll be suiting up for a CFL squad in the near future, hey hey.
if he is suspended then he is not allowed to play there.
Quote: GWAEif he is suspended then he is not allowed to play there.
When did they implement that rule? Ricky Williams played in the CFL while he was suspended from the NFL.
Quote: GWAEif he is suspended then he is not allowed to play there.
As I recall Ricky Williams played in the CFL while under NFL suspension, hey hey.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWhen did they implement that rule? Ricky Williams played in the CFL while he was suspended from the NFL.
I don't know if it is true then. I listen to local sports talk during the day while at work. Last week they were talking about Josh Gordon's suspension and they mentioned that he wanted to play in the CFL but was denied because he can not play while under suspension.
Maybe there is a difference because he is still employed by a team, whereas Rice is currently unemployed. What was Williams status when he played there?
"But even in the unlikely case the Browns were open to Gordon playing north of the border, Canadian Football League rules prohibit any player currently under contract with another league to sign a contract."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2014/08/28/josh-gordon-cfl-canada-denial-cleveland/14741401/
The rule was implemented after the Ricky Williams thing; it is known as the "Ricky Williams rule"....
If the rule is as stated above, Ray Rice could play in the NFL because his contract was terminated. There could be other rules involved, of course...
Quote: DaddydocWait, WHAT? I mean, Mike Vick is a reprehensible scumbag who tortured animals. You can say Ray Rice was defending himself from an assault, but this was not a stranger who was assaulting him, and she did not have any help from another assailant. He clearly should have been able to keep her at bay without a punch to the face, which could have potentially killed her. Is she a female MMA star? Boxer? I know nothing about the woman, but she does not look like an athlete to me; certainly not one who could have a fair fight with a NFL running back. Mike Vick's crimes were certainly premeditated and this was not, but I can think of a few other ways of dealing with this beyond slugging a physically inferior person in the face - he could have gotten off the elevator at the next floor, he could have held her at arm's length, played defensive. If she had died, would you still say that what Mike Vick did was far worse?
She DIDNT so your question is not valid.
Yes, some people would watch football even if the teams were all convicted felons, but not as many as watch it now. Like it or not, the league has a duty to keep it as clean as it possibly can because it is a product that they are selling. The players are the main component of that product. It is easy to say "they don't have to be role models"...that may well be true. They do need to help sell the product.
Smacking a woman into oblivion and then dragging her off the elevator and flopping her lifeless body on the floor is not only unacceptable and reprehensible, it is also horrible for the league's image. That is why he was deservedly cut and suspended. He may well get a second chance; we do believe in those in America, but he deserved everything that happened to him today. The league office deserves all the criticism it is getting, too.
There is no "right" to be a professional football player or earn that kind of money. It is a fantastic opportunity, not a right.
Quote: soxfanRice's contract was terminated so he is able to play in the CFL. Besides that cowardly punk ochocinco or whatever he calls himself head-butted his wife and he is playing in the CFL, too, hey hey.
I don't think Ocho Stinko is suspended from the NFL. He just got cut by the Dolphins and no one wanted him.
Quote: beachbumbabsI don't understand, really, why the NFL is in the mix on this at all. I get that they have morals clauses, and a fan base, but I think the organization is ill-suited to have to make any decision about whether he should have a job based on domestic violence. So he's despicable. What's new about that when you're talking about NFL players? They've gone through a couple decades of selection for mayhem and violence just to get the job. They've been desensitized to physical contact, even expected to welcome it. This isn't about whether he slapped his woman around; it's about getting caught.
They have a product to protect. Sometimes the situation is so bad that they have to take action. They tried inaction--a two game suspension is nearly nothing at all--but then the video came out. Their product was in a spot where it could be hurt worse--looking like they were okay with domestic abuse (with video evidence); they had to take action.
Again, those athletes have no "right" to play in the NFL. They can lose the chance in a heartbeat for a myriad of reasons.
Quote: BozShe DIDNT so your question is not valid.Quote: daddydocIf she had died, would you still say that what Mike Vick did was far worse?
Yeah, it was a hypothetical question. I didn't say that she died. I am curious to know if your opinion about the severity of his action would change if she HAD died, which she easily could have. It's OK with me if you don't want to answer, but the question is not "invalid".
--saw that on Facebook
Also...
"The Cowboys should pick up Ray Rice. They don't beat anyone..."
Quote: RonCJust read a great story about Manti Te'o and his take on the Ray Rice situation. "I'd never hit my girl, even if she was real"
+1
Quote: soxfanRice's contract was terminated so he is able to play in the CFL. Besides that cowardly punk ochocinco or whatever he calls himself head-butted his wife and he is playing in the CFL, too, hey hey.
The CFL is mostly done for the year... lasr four to five games of the regular season. Unlikely to sign toxic players right now. Even more so a RB... the football doesnt suit ground pounding backs.
Quote: RonCThey have a product to protect. Sometimes the situation is so bad that they have to take action. They tried inaction--a two game suspension is nearly nothing at all--but then the video came out. Their product was in a spot where it could be hurt worse--looking like they were okay with domestic abuse (with video evidence); they had to take action.
I don't buy that. People will watch anyway. They may complain for a bit but in a few weeks they will forget about it and go back to watching. There were actually protests over Vick. It didn't matter. I'll bet that you count the people who stopped watching football over that on one hand.
Quote:Again, those athletes have no "right" to play in the NFL. They can lose the chance in a heartbeat for a myriad of reasons.
I'm sure that a team will pick him up eventually. Maybe he will sit out a season. The fact is, the fans want to see the best players, and the teams want to win. Just like happened with Vick: someone will pick him up, and they will make a big deal about giving someone a second chance.
You can tell that the NFL is run by a lawyer. This is all for show.
Quote: RonCThey have a product to protect. Sometimes the situation is so bad that they have to take action. They tried inaction--a two game suspension is nearly nothing at all--but then the video came out. Their product was in a spot where it could be hurt worse--looking like they were okay with domestic abuse (with video evidence); they had to take action.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI don't buy that. People will watch anyway. They may complain for a bit but in a few weeks they will forget about it and go back to watching. There were actually protests over Vick. It didn't matter. I'll bet that you count the people who stopped watching football over that on one hand.
So if the intention is to protect the product, why would they need to do anything else at this point? He was already suspended the proper amount of games based on the policy in place at the time of the violation.
Quote: RonCAgain, those athletes have no "right" to play in the NFL. They can lose the chance in a heartbeat for a myriad of reasons.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'm sure that a team will pick him up eventually. Maybe he will sit out a season. The fact is, the fans want to see the best players, and the teams want to win. Just like happened with Vick: someone will pick him up, and they will make a big deal about giving someone a second chance.
Already covered that...from an earlier post:
Quote: RonCHe may well get a second chance; we do believe in those in America, but he deserved everything that happened to him today. The league office deserves all the criticism it is getting, too.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYou can tell that the NFL is run by a lawyer. This is all for show.
Again, what need is there for a "show" if they aren't protecting their product?
Quote: RonCAgain, what need is there for a "show" if they aren't protecting their product?
They are just making an example of him so that they have something to point to later.
It's just like all these stupid new rules which they pretend are to protect players, but actually do nothing to protect players. They don't give a crap about the players; it's so that when they get sued about the whole massive head trauma thing they can point to this and pretend that they did as much as possible to mitigate the problem.
Personally, I don't care. I know that 90% of the players are assholes who beat their wives or worse, and I know that the game is destroying their health. It doesn't matter. I want to watch because it's good entertainment, and I'll keep watching until they shut the league down. And most other fans feel the same way. In the 90s the Cowboys were winning super bowls. It wasn't exactly a secret that they were all coke-heads and felons, and no one cared. People watched because they were fun to watch.
Quote: beachbumbabsI don't understand, really, why the NFL is in the mix on this at all. I get that they have morals clauses, and a fan base, but I think the organization is ill-suited to have to make any decision about whether he should have a job based on domestic violence.
Employers always have the final say on whether an employee has a job......it doesn't have to make sense to anyone except the NFL/Ravens.......they are the one's paying him.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'm sure that a team will pick him up eventually. Maybe he will sit out a season. The fact is, the fans want to see the best players, and the teams want to win. Just like happened with Vick: someone will pick him up, and they will make a big deal about giving someone a second chance.
I don't think the comparison of Rice's situation to Vick's is appropriate. One abused animals, the other abused a human being.......there is a big difference. Unlike Vick, Ray Rice will never play in the NFL again.
Now if there had been a video of Vick electrocuting those pit bulls and we had some horrific images of the dogs suffering, Vick might not have played again either. The video footage is the death nail for Rice as it is easier to forgive & forget about incidents you haven't actually scene. Anytime Ray Rice's name comes up in the future, that video is going to run on our TV's all over again.
Quote: ParadigmNow if there had been a video of Vick electrocuting those pit bulls and we had some horrific images of the dogs suffering, Vick might not have played again either. The video footage is the death nail for Rice as it is easier to forgive & forget about incidents you haven't actually scene. Anytime Ray Rice's name comes up in the future, that video is going to run on our TV's all over again.
Video of OJ stabbing Ron Goldman and Nicole would have ended his football career, for sure.
Anyway, NFL establishing consistent rules and abiding by them in all the cases would at least make more people happy (maybe).
+1000Quote: AxiomOfChoice
You can tell that the NFL is run by a lawyer. This is all for show.
Quote: kewljFor the past couple of days, each time I watched ESPN, I hear about how the public is outraged at how short the suspension Ray Rice received from the NFL is. I am going to take the opposite view and one that I suspect will not be very popular. I don't think Ray Rice should have been suspended at all, by the NFL.
Don't get me wrong, domestic violence is big issue and one that I take very seriously, and Ray Rice's behavior is deplorable. If someone's conduct and actions rise to the level of criminality, they should go to jail and/or prison, and professional athletes should receive no special treatment. Floyd Mayweather went to jail. Such issues should be handled in the criminal justice system. I don't see where the NFL has any place issuing any kind of penalty. I mean if ray Rice worked at Walmart, would he be suspended from work? Let's keep the criminal justice system separate from other things and allow the criminal justice system to work.
I am not sure about Walmart in particular, but , many big chain stores do background checks and automatically either don't hire or consider vastly less for violent convictions, so I'm assuming Walmart probably does too. And if he worked at Walmart and missed a lot of time to go to jail he probably would lose his job...
But Rice is part of a private organization (NFL) and works or a team, I don't follow football so I have no clue what team he is (was perhaps) on, and I find it irrelevant anyway. But if the NFL and/or his team don't want him or want him to face a suspension that is their right. If I owned a football team and one of my players was amusing his family he would be gone, I don't care how good or popular he is.
Quote: DaddydocYeah, it was a hypothetical question. I didn't say that she died. I am curious to know if your opinion about the severity of his action would change if she HAD died, which she easily could have. It's OK with me if you don't want to answer, but the question is not "invalid".
I have no problem answering, its just your point makes no sense. YES, it would be worse than what Vick did IF she he killed her. Yes, I value a human life more than an animals, but I see killing an animal worse than hitting a women. Neither is good, but in this case if Vick was left back, Rice should be too after serving his suspension.
Not sure why you think I would feel the same IF she was dead.
Then he tossed her lifeless body on the floor after removing from the elevator. It wasn't gentle; it wasn't loving--it was yet another assault on her.
--The NFL may have allowed all kinds of things in the past, but they are trying to present an image that is better than one of a man smacking a woman. They would be stupid not to protect the image.
--The issue is the NFL's business. Ray Rice was employed by a member team and agreed, by contract, to abide by rules regarding conduct. That team terminated his contract, which they had every right to do. The league suspended him; again, within their rights.
--Lots of people are trained to be violent in given circumstances. Some are even chosen to do violent things more often than others because they are better at. That doesn't somehow make it okay to use that violence against woman or even people not involved in the activity requiring violence.
--The NFL is a business. They may not be trying to truly protect players with the new rules they have, that is open to discussion. That doesn't mean that those rules are not about trying to project a certain image of caring about their players.
--Ray Rice may get a second chance. That's okay with me if the NFL decides he deserves it based on whatever criteria they use. Lots of people get second chances.
--Who cares if he lost the opportunity to make a lot of money working for a private employer? I certainly don't care. I hold all of those who blow opportunities like he has as idiots, not as people to feel sorry for.
For the most part though, I hate that employers have as much power to regulate your personal life as they do. It's ridiculous that your boss can give you random drug tests, or any drug tests. If employers in general started to take on more of a criminal justice role, that would be terrible. They already have more than enough power over workers in this country without taking over the role of judge and jury.
Quote: AxiomOfChoice...I don't buy that. People will watch anyway. They may complain for a bit but in a few weeks they will forget about it and go back to watching. There were actually protests over Vick. It didn't matter. I'll bet that you count the people who stopped watching football over that on one hand...
I quit watching football not solely because of Vick, but that was a big part of it. While there are many fine gentlemen playing the game, there are way too many thugs in the game to suit me now. And since the league office, nor owners, seem to have any interest in removing those thugs, I am no longer interested in their product. I think the number of people like me is way higher than you are imagining. However, I agree, in the overall numbers, we are an insignificant percentage.
And as if I needed to prove my point, the Pittsburgh game was on in the clubhouse when I finished my golf game. I looked up just in time to see the Brown's return man, kick the Pittsburgh punter in the face mask with his cleats. He should have been ejected. There is no part of the game that allows you to kick someone in the head. I can see someone who has been battling in the trenches all day trying to get even with their opponent for some prior transgression(s), but a kicker? What the hell did he ever do to deserve that? At least they managed to throw a flag on the play, but that was butt ugly.
Quote: KeyserI think the Rice incident is an example of culture clash. Many of us find it shocking behavior because we don't fully understand the culture, but in some ethnic groups, people express their emotions more openly and violently. Rice's girlfriend accepts the lifestyle, and has forgiven him. Maybe we should just let it slide as well and accept it as being just part of the culture. Much like the Michael Vick incident.
Wait. Your first part of your statement aside. How is dog fighting justified in Vick's culture? What culture is that?
Quote: KeyserSome cultures are simply more violent than others. If they're ok with it, then perhaps we should just look the other way and accept the rich cultural diversity.
So forcing dogs to tear each other apart is acceptable if somebody comes from a country that has a history of doing that?
I'm sorry but that's absurd. Besides the blatant animal cruelty involved, who enjoys such violence? Only a sick sadistic person would be interested in that.
And even worst than that beating your wife is fine if it is culturally acceptable?
What if I am from a Muslim culture and I don't think my wife should be allowed to drive, not allowed to vote, I can rape her if she refuses to have sex for 7 consecutive days, I can beat her to death if I feel like it. Would any or all of those be ok if my cultural community approves?
America is a melting pot, not a box of drawers. We can (and shouls) have diversity but people need to conform to basic human rights standards to live here.I don't care where they moved from, nobody has an excuse to abuse their spouse or animals. Everyone has to follow the laws and respect the rights of others.
If he sells one million shirts, the Ravens will take him back.
edit;
Maybe I need to look into more info on this before making a comment but has anyone here ever been attacked by a psychotic woman with extended finger nails?
It's not like he choked her out, he hit her once to stop the attack, he was already backed against the wall, is that somehow wrong to defend himself.
I somehow get the impression that many commentors have never had their ass kicked real good by either sex. It may change minds about all this high and mighty moral ground stuff.
Does it look like she was completely innocent somehow, like standing in a corner being pleasant or do you see her charging him.
What would you do in the same situation, he couldn't back up any further. The only reason she thought she could do that in an elevator is proof he hadn't been beating her at home. One left hook, looked like a fair punch to me. He didn't kick her when she was down. He didn't just leave her there and they are still together.
I am not advocating hitting women, or for that matter anybody, but check out reality once in a while. So this guys life is now done. Happy now with the vindication?
Quote: petroglyphI didn't watch it with sound but it sort of looked like self defense to me, did anyone else see the way she was going after him?
There is no sound anywhere. I thought the same thing before I saw the whole thing (I missed the part where he was over on "her side" of the elevator, intimidating, yelling, and shoving her, and possibly hitting her).
I'm not saying that she is not partially at fault but he basically turned a shoving match into something a lot more severe.
If you miss the first part of the video, it does look like he said something to her, she lunged at him, and he just reacted. But if you watch the whole thing I think it's pretty clear that he is the aggressor.
Quote: chickenmanSo what about OJ still in HOF? The NFL should melt down his bronze and subject his name to damnatio memoriae IMNSHO
For trying to get his own stuff back in Vegas? Or are you that mystery person who was in LA in 94, but never testified as to what they saw?
What do you tell a woman with two black eyes?
Nothing, she's already been told twice.
Quote:Rice slugged his future spouse while they were at the Revel Casino Hotel
There's a whole board full of people here who could have warned them something bad was bound to happen.
That explains everything. Alert the media!
Quote: RigondeauxA professional athlete knocking out a woman who is shoving or scratching him is not "self-defence."
Also, had he picked her up and carried her out of the elevator, he could have pitched it as a rash spontaneous reaction which he immediately regretted. If he immediately regretted it as a spontaneous reaction, he didn't show it by dragging her out like a sack of potatoes.
Both things worked together to make it worse.
Quote: RigondeauxA professional athlete knocking out a woman who is shoving or scratching him is not "self-defence."
I don't think he got up that morning and plotted to get his future wife in an elevator to knock her out, why not just do it at home?
He is a finely tuned machine who has exercised for years and is full of adrenaline, testosterone and what ever endorphins make our bodies work at peak perfomance.
He didn't think, he reacted. That is why they train and train and train to be able to react without thinking about it. It took her well less than two seconds to cross that elevator and it looked to me like she was going for his face or neck. There wasn't much time for him to assees the situation and he was in a corner.
Virtually ALL pugilists get hit. That woman needs counseling about ther anger issues. Getting hit isn't that big of a deal. That one punch does not change that womans life but it certainly changed his forever. Let the punishment fit the crime.
If he had the time and grabbed both wrists just to stop her, how would that look to someone wanting on? Not to mention the bruising. If he just ducked and covered and again someone opens the door what does that look like? This is just a lose lose lose for this guy. He had no escape in the elevator or in the press.
I don't know if she has reported him to the authority's before for this but that would be all over the news. Certainly spousal abuse is a serious crime.
