Is a slot double up feature 50/50 or according to the RTP of the slot?

For example. If the slot has a published RTP of 90% and has a double up feature, do I expect the win rate on the double up feature to be 45/55 (consistent with 90% RTP) or 50/50?

Any regulation for this? How about online slots?

Below is the last page or two of a thread at Casinmeister back in 2006 that involved the double up feature being rigged in video poker.

You could read the whole thread from the beginning, but Michael the Wizard was also somewhat involved and maybe he could recall the issue more effectively.

Casinomeister placed the software or the casino in the rogue listings at that time, but the problem with that was I don't think the casino was ever on his accredited list. Almost all of the casinos on his rogue list are casinos that never paid his fees to be on his accredited list in the first place. Very rare will he rogue one of the casinos on the accredited payola plan unless of course it's undeniably, blatantly, obvious for all to see.

Regardless, I think this was an obvious rigged situation.


http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12185&p=110903#post110903

Deleted post.....Regulations I posted didn't directly answer question.

I would assume if it states 50/50 in rules of game, you would expect it to be 50/50.

Quote: 4ofaKind

Below is the last page or two of a thread at Casinmeister back in 2006 that involved the double up feature being rigged in video poker.

You could read the whole thread from the beginning, but Michael the Wizard was also somewhat involved and maybe he could recall the issue more effectively.

Casinomeister placed the software or the casino in the rogue listings at that time, but the problem with that was I don't think the casino was ever on his accredited list. Almost all of the casinos on his rogue list are casinos that never payed his fees to be on his accredited list in the first place. Very rare will he rogue one of the casinos on the accredited payola plan unless of course it's undeniably, blatantly, obvious for all to see.

Regardless, I think this was an obvious rigged situation.


http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12185&p=110903#post110903

Interesting enough, I once found a casino that was obviously rigged on the double up IN MY FAVOR(I thought I was in the twilight zone). Somewhere I have a partial print out of the hand history, it's fairly obvious. I also demonstrated it to a few people. It was fairly predictable. But not 100% predictable(at least not that I detected while playing) , Unfortunately it was only the nickles. I ran the account from like 50 bucks into 4k. I got greedy and moved up denominations. It was the polar opposite, It took approximately 1k back. I really never thought they would pay me anyways. When I cashed out, amazingly they did pay. I doubt if I ran my account to much higher they would have payed.

After that, I did some research on the casino. It turns out they did have some kind of gaffed software that was Fing players.
After I received my check, The glitch seemed to be fixed.

Quote: AxelWolf

Interesting enough, I once found a casino that was obviously rigged on the double up IN MY FAVOR(I thought I was in the twilight zone). Somewhere I have a partial print out of the hand history, it's fairly obvious. I also demonstrated it to a few people. It was fairly predictable. But not 100% predictable(at least not that I detected while playing) , Unfortunately it was only the nickles. I ran the account from like 50 bucks into 4k. I got greedy and moved up denominations. It was the polar opposite, It took approximately 1k back. I really never thought they would pay me anyways. When I cashed out, amazingly they did pay. I doubt if I ran my account to much higher they would have payed.

After that, I did some research on the casino. It turns out they did have some kind of gaffed software that was Fing players.
After I received my check, The glitch seemed to be fixed.

This was an internet casino right? What's the name of it?

Quote: 4ofaKind

Below is the last page or two of a thread at Casinmeister back in 2006 that involved the double up feature being rigged in video poker.

You could read the whole thread from the beginning, but Michael the Wizard was also somewhat involved and maybe he could recall the issue more effectively.

Casinomeister placed the software or the casino in the rogue listings at that time, but the problem with that was I don't think the casino was ever on his accredited list. Almost all of the casinos on his rogue list are casinos that never paid his fees to be on his accredited list in the first place. Very rare will he rogue one of the casinos on the accredited payola plan unless of course it's undeniably, blatantly, obvious for all to see.

Regardless, I think this was an obvious rigged situation.


http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12185&p=110903#post110903

Oh, the English harbor one, yeah I've seen the thread before. Absolutely disgusting responses in the first few pages

"Just another loser with a conspiracy theory....
When you hit the royal flush, complain to them thats its fixed"

"I am waiting for the day when some idiot will come to this forum with 100.000 hands statistics and with about one millon dollars lost. And he will prove finally that some casinos may be rigged. There is no other way to prove it (unfortunately). And until that time we must believe the online casinos are absolutely fair "


wow...

Quote: Neutrino

Oh, the English harbor one, yeah I've seen the thread before. Absolutely disgusting responses in the first few pages

"Just another loser with a conspiracy theory....
When you hit the royal flush, complain to them thats its fixed"

"I am waiting for the day when some idiot will come to this forum with 100.000 hands statistics and with about one millon dollars lost. And he will prove finally that some casinos may be rigged. There is no other way to prove it (unfortunately). And until that time we must believe the online casinos are absolutely fair "


wow...

If enough people believe online casinos are rigged, I believe them. If enough people believe online poker is rigged(the cashout big and then start to lose in unbelievable ways story), I believe them. It's better to be safe.

Quote: Neutrino

This was an internet casino right? What's the name of it?

Yes it was an internet casino. I wont post the name publicly. There may or may not still be an opportunity at some point.

If your are tying to avoid gaffed online casinos I suggest you find one you trust and stick with it.

Personally I don't care if they are not random, as long as they pay and not give you a bunch of bullshit if you do happen to win.

Someone just asked about Pamper casino in a different thread. They have been known to make up BS and not pay. They claimed a friend of mine had 2 accounts. Since that was probably the 2nd account he ever had online that's impossible.


side note: IMO online casinos are killing themselves with all the fax back form BS including utility bills. I guess it may work in their favor and keep people with small amounts from ever cashing out and just playing until they lose everything, but then they don't come back.

In the UK, Physical slots with double up feature are not random 50/50. Many have spinning wheels with numbers 1 to 12 and you select hi or low. God help you if you have 8 or 3 showing, because you usually lose the hi-lo whatever you choose.
It's only empirical evidence gleaned over decades.

Quote: Neutrino

"I am waiting for the day when some idiot will come to this forum with 100.000 hands statistics and with about one millon dollars lost. And he will prove finally that some casinos may be rigged. There is no other way to prove it (unfortunately). And until that time we must believe the online casinos are absolutely fair " wow...

I guess I was considered at one time a high online casino roller for years. I played 99% video poker online and never had any problems or ever felt the software was gaffed or that it played any different then land based casinos. In fact my online results were even better then land based results. That also could have been a result of the amount of action online video poker was getting compared to land based. In fact I played so much video poker online, when I went to B&M’s I hardly even played video poker anymore and concentrated on table games.

Immediately after the UIGEA was passed in 2006, and the casino I was playing at shut down to USA players, I was forced to change casinos and software and almost instantly I noticed changes in results. After a year of the same action I played in the past, results took a nose dive. Of course I didn’t panic and accepted the results as just bad luck and expected negative ev.

After 2 years and results getting even worse, I reduced my bets to $5.00 dollar hands. Royal flushes became non-existent and I started noticing weird patterns that kept on repeating themselves. One event that always caught my attention was when I was on my last $5.00 bet before busting out, I would get two pair. This had to happen eight out of ten times, and was the final straw that put me over the rigged top.

I’m certain if I had all my play results from 2006 till I quit, I alone could have had enough action to prove rigged.

With the amount of experience I have playing video poker; I will go to my grave convinced I was playing a rigged game online. You could wrap all the tin foil you want around my head, and call me any name you want, but I definitely played a rigged version of video poker online.

I still play video poker at B&M’s and still have no complaints with my results.

Quote: 4ofaKind

I guess I was considered at one time a high online casino roller for years. I played 99% video poker online and never had any problems or ever felt the software was gaffed or that it played any different then land based casinos. In fact my online results were even better then land based results. That also could have been a result of the amount of action online video poker was getting compared to land based. In fact I played so much video poker online, when I went to B&M’s I hardly even played video poker anymore and concentrated on table games.

Immediately after the UIGEA was passed in 2006, and the casino I was playing at shut down to USA players, I was forced to change casinos and software and almost instantly I noticed changes in results. After a year of the same action I played in the past, results took a nose dive. Of course I didn’t panic and accepted the results as just bad luck and expected negative ev.

After 2 years and results getting even worse, I reduced my bets to $5.00 dollar hands. Royal flushes became non-existent and I started noticing weird patterns that kept on repeating themselves. One event that always caught my attention was when I was on my last $5.00 bet before busting out, I would get two pair. This had to happen eight out of ten times, and was the final straw that put me over the rigged top.

I’m certain if I had all my play results from 2006 till I quit, I alone could have had enough action to prove rigged.

With the amount of experience I have playing video poker; I will go to my grave convinced I was playing a rigged game online. You could wrap all the tin foil you want around my head, and call me any name you want, but I definitely played a rigged version of video poker online.

I still play video poker at B&M’s and still have no complaints with my results.

You keep serving as an inspiration to me as I spend more and more time digging up your old posts on the rigged casinos.

Amazing what casinos can get away with these days

Quote: AxelWolf

Interesting enough, I once found a casino that was obviously rigged on the double up IN MY FAVOR(I thought I was in the twilight zone). Somewhere I have a partial print out of the hand history, it's fairly obvious. I also demonstrated it to a few people. It was fairly predictable. But not 100% predictable(at least not that I detected while playing) , Unfortunately it was only the nickles. I ran the account from like 50 bucks into 4k. I got greedy and moved up denominations. It was the polar opposite, It took approximately 1k back. I really never thought they would pay me anyways. When I cashed out, amazingly they did pay. I doubt if I ran my account to much higher they would have payed.

After that, I did some research on the casino. It turns out they did have some kind of gaffed software that was Fing players.
After I received my check, The glitch seemed to be fixed.

Have you heard the legend of the play at twin river in Rhode Island where the machine would flicker and reveal cards that were hidden choices for the double up feature? I guess it can happen live too.

Quote: Neutrino

Amazing what casinos can get away with these days

With the entire monitoring taking place after launch of any software at seriously regulated B&M jurisdictions, (weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually) combined with experience / expectations I feel certain and safe that no foul play is taking place at these casinos.

Personally, when it comes to Indian B&M jurisdictions their software games don’t get a nickel of my action. Their regulators proved their worth to me when the online internal poker scandals were exposed under their watch, and when certain sites regulated by them were able to fold and run with all the players money. I go to these Indian B&M casinos but only play live table games and live poker at them. Just the fact that most if not all of the B&M Indian jurisdictions refuse to make public knowledge their monthly hold on software games, tells me they probably aren't proud of their not so generous hold. Most land based casinos want that information to be made public to show how competitive they are and to help draw the serious slot players who actually follow this information.

Of course my wife can’t sit in the corner while I’m having a good time so they do get some slot action I suppose. But, her loses would be considered tip money when compared to my degenerate behavior. Besides, she would rather spend money on shoes and cloths, so that’s all good. We would have a problem trying to finance two gambling fools like me at the same time.

Anyhow, it’s not amazing what casinos can get away with these days; it’s amazing what online casinos are getting away with and still with these days.

No online regulation enforcement what so ever after approval and launch and who even knows from what countries. Online casinos are a complete unregulated cluster F**k. I don't care who knows who or how honest anyone says they are. When it comes to gaming with real money, I’m sorry, there is just nothing else to discuss after considering those facts.

Obviously, many disagree with me since it's a multi-billion dollar annual industry, but serious gamblers can't possibly take online seriously after what we've seen over the years. At least not yet. I think online is loaded with 50/100 dollar depositors hoping they hit one of the jackpots with the same expectations as lottery dreamers have. Most couldn't care less about the actual facts and just know that many people do hit the jackpots and actually get paid. Their not concerned about the casinos skimming a couple of extra % points off the top, and most wouldn't even know the difference.

Speaking of my wife above, I constantly think of this joke by Buddy Hackett he said years ago. Not sure if I printed it here already but still think it’s worth repeating if I did.

Buddy and his wife are in the elevator at a casino on their way up to their room after an evening of gambling. Buddy starts yelling at his wife for losing a thousand dollars playing slot machines. She fires back “how could you possibly yell at me for losing a thousand dollars when you lost ten thousand dollars playing craps tonight?” He responds, “Yea, I know I did but I know what I’m doing”.