Downswings

Have to agree with Sally. Per his post he is a wannabe.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

You obviously know nothing about gambling. You win money by placing bets with an edge. Betting systems are for people who are never hit 16s or split 8s.

You should go play baccarat. You would probably lose less and you would fit right in.

Not so fast....slow down... Oh sure, I would love to lose less, who wouldn't. That would put me that much further ahead than I already am, and for a red chip sub-optimal strategy player I'm pretty happy where I am and of course, that would make me even happier.
But regarding topic, A betting system and a betting strategy are synonymous are they not,.... keyword... "betting" !
Lets don't confuse playing strategy with betting strategy. For example, in BJ, an advantage player will manipulate his/her.. (A.)" Bets" according to the (B.)" Play" of the cards ( + or- EV) and by doing so, hopefully enhancing his/her winnings . So, with two separate processes occurring simultaneously namely card play (fluctuating EV) and money management ( betting strategy) would you then agree that a betting strategy, in this context, used in conjunction with a playing strategy does indeed increase the AP's chances of winning and should not be misjudged as equally worthless.?

And as far as baccarat, eh.. I'll pass.... I m still practicing BJ .... but thanks for the compliment anyway.

Quote: cwwbjr

So, with two separate processes occurring simultaneously namely card play (fluctuating EV) and money management ( betting strategy) would you then agree that a betting strategy, in this context, used in conjunction with a playing strategy does indeed increase the AP's chances of winning and should not be misjudged as equally worthless.?

Don't confuse betting big when you have the edge with "money management".

So, how much are you really down at blackjack? No one is buying this "up $12k" nonsense.

Of course nobody ever ranted or bitched about anything ever in their life so I must be the first. I don't even know why I post here anymore. I remember many threads of others posting their bad experiences in gambling or advantage play, and they got the same old peanut gallery. Some people just love to Monday morning quarterback. If it made you feel better then good for you. It's great to hear opinions from people who do this for fun and not for a living.

Quote: Buzzard

Well, so far, so good. Will stop back later and see if my name is in red. SIGH

I never stiffed a waiter in my life. Think before you make assumptions about me. I've left 20% for bad service just because I used to be a waiter and know what it's like.

Also, writing things like , "Who cares you don't know how good you have it" isn't very productive. People find all sorts of things that they feel are very horrible events in their life, but only choose to express certain ones because they rather not share extremely personal information. I've had to hear stories of kids complaining about what type of car their parents bought them, when I had to work a part time job in high school to buy one. Sure it sounds like gibberish to me but to them it probably is a big issue. Why not let them vent, and move on with your day?

Quote: mustangsally

Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Why does one have to meet him to have an opinion about things he posts here?

You're welcome, my point is he does not come off exactly as he posts in person, specifically, he doesn't come off anything like the Opening Post of this thread in person. He's just starting out and he has experienced the worst run of his life, to date, he'll probably experience one still worse sometime after this. Everyone has to have a worst run of his life...until the next one.

I can understand his frustration, though. It had been 5+ Royal cycles I'd played in live VP and still never hit a Royal...frustrating...then I go to this café/slot parlor the other night and pop $5 in on a machine with a paytable nobody should ever play on Joker Poker, and pa-POW, there it is, natural Royal.

Dude's a pro, I'm a recreational AP (but not at that moment) this is his livelihood, I popped a fiver in a café because I was in the mood for a 'free,' cappuccino. I hit a negative expectation Royal and am ~+$1,500 for this week given Ultimate X Vulturing and a few other things, he's down 6K this month. It's a sick thing, sometimes.

Quote:

Is he or is he not a professional gambler?
I say he is not a professional gambler. He is a gambler.
That IS my opinion.

That's fine, pursuant to my personal definition of what a professional gambler is, your opinion is exactly wrong. He gambles as a source of income, and while he may be in the Armed Forces, gambling is his primary source of income, ergo, professional gambler. You may define the term in a different way than I do, though, so I appreciate that he may not meet your definition.

Quote:

I went to see my professional doctor yesterday
I went to see my doctor yesterday
I went to see my professional auto mechanic yesterday
I went to see my auto mechanic yesterday

Professionals get upset when things go wrong, and sometimes they vent. Do you think a heart surgeon never goes home saddened because someone dropped dead on his table through no fault of his own?

Quote:

I am a professional gambler
I am a gambler

I'm a gambler, I'm a recreational AP so that I can continue to gamble. That's just me, though, I'm not going to lie about it.

I don't know if I have anything to say to make you feel better, but I can definitely sympathize with you.

I posted a few weeks ago about my biggest to date loss of my whole trip bankroll in Vegas. It was unpleasant.

Well I replenished the bankroll, and pulled out another $7500 trip bankroll last friday and headed for Vegas. I avoided the property I lost at last time, and spent the first 8 hours or so of my trip seeking out a new blackjack game with favorable conditions. I walked, and watched, and walked, and watched some more. Finally I found a double deck game with one player. He wasn't doing well but the dealer was cutting off 1/2 deck and I noticed a few times she cut off less than that. Rules were H17 DAS RSA. I felt like I was in an advantageous position and took a seat. Followed the count up through the first shoe, TC hit +4 and I put out my 8 unit max bet. Dealt 88 vs a dealer 9. Split em up pulled two 10's for 18 and 18. Dealer flips over 19. Next hand all low cards including a seven card dealer 21... count back up to TC +4. Put 8 units out. Dealt 77 vs a dealer six. Split em, first card is another 7, resplit, another 7.... Doubled one hand pulled a 5 for a 16, got hard 17 on the rest. Dealer flips over a 5 under, then pulls a 10 for 21.

The rest of the trip was just as bad as the above 5 minutes. Bye bye to another trip bankroll. I'm down 13K on the year. It hurts.

" " I am starting to get very snippy with servers at restaurants " You said that not me. !!!!!!

I just assumed someone who treated servers like that would not tip. Think that 20% tip make you any less of a jerk.

Yeah poor you and a car in high school. I had to quit in 11th grade work full time job in grocery store and part time in pool hall. Whine. whine , whine !

Quote: Buzzard

" " I am starting to get very snippy with servers at restaurants " You said that not me. !!!!!!

I just assumed someone who treated servers like that would not tip. Think that 20% tip make you any less of a jerk.

Yeah poor you and a car in high school. I had to quit in 11th grade work full time job in grocery store and part time in pool hall. Whine. whine , whine !

The point I made went over your head. Nobody cares about the story with me and the car, I'm explaining to you that everyone has problems, and there's nothing to gain by having a pissing contest on who's got it worse or not. I didn't write that for sympathy as I'm sure there are starving kids in Africa everywhere. So this means nobody can ever say they are hungry or starving ever?

+ Don't worry about your name being in red. I don't find what you type insulting at all, maybe misguided but not insulting.

Well, are you gonna stay down on climb back on that horse? And act less snippy to people who are not as lucky as you.

Boy this thread has taken a turn to the ugly and quite frankly the towards the stupid. We are now judging if djatc is gambler or a professional gambler???

I haven't met djatc, nor seen him play, nor have access to his financial situation to know how he is or isn't paying his bills from his play, so I can't make that determination, nor would I want to. What I do know, based on the knowledge displayed in his posts is that he has a good understanding and knowledge of the game.

So, he shared his experience and feeling during/after a negative swing. I am in my 11th year of supporting myself from blackjack play and I still do that. Card counting blackjack players are a solitary bunch by nature. The solo type of us, even more so. We spend great amounts of time alone. Even those that have a spouse/significant other, don't share this part of their life with them. We often use these blackjack and gambling message board sites to share our experiences good and bad with like minded people who may have some understanding about what we are going or went through. Sometimes almost celebrating short-term good fortune. Sometimes maybe even looking for a pat on the back and word of encouragement during the bad. I have done this for years. The good and the bad, the downs after a large monetary beating or prolonged losing periods of lasting weeks and months. The ups after a massive win.

In 2011, which was before I posted regularly here, I made a post on another blackjack site called 'the perfect shoe'. The basic premise was that from the time the count went high and I started max betting very early in the show, playing heads up, I won nearly every single wager, double down. I had two pushes out of thirty some hands but did not lose a single hand. (strangely no blackjacks). This 15 minutes, ended up accounting for 1/3 of my years total win. This was a mega event for me that I wanted to share. I wasn't gloating just wanted to share such an unusual event with some folks that might appreciate it.

Last year I posted several times during a 15 week beatdown to start the year. Just like djatc, I wasn't 'crying' as many of you have concluded' just venting and sharing a pretty negative experience. Playing this game for a living, as a few of us here do, is emotional at times. Sure we try to take the emotions out as much as possible, but we are people not machines. Apparently some of you don't appreciate the sharing of experiences. I actually do. Most of my blackjack education, has come from different message boards in the form of more experienced players sharing there experiences.

So djatc, I wouldn't blame you if you if after this inappropriate 'judging' that has taken place if you decided to stop sharing your experiences, but know that some of us appreciate you sharing your experience and that hopefully there are some, maybe even some who didn't participate in the thread, that have benefited from you doing so. Again, hang in there.

Quote: Mission146

Dude's a pro,

by who's standards?
Yours? I am not impressed

His?
He refuses to answer a few simple questions I asked.
That speaks volumes to me.

I read his blog and some more of his threads.
He is always up when winning and always down when losing.
That is not being a professional gambler IMO.

and we may be around the same age too.

Mine? again my opinion is he is not a professional gambler and his words have proved it to me.
we all have our opinion here.

also, one more time here
I went to see my professional doctor yesterday
I went to see my doctor yesterday

Is there a difference between being a doctor and a professional one?
Maybe not. Most places require one to prove they are a doctor. school and school and on hands training.

Same with my mechanic.
I went to see my professional auto mechanic yesterday
I went to see my auto mechanic yesterday

But that can be different.
One can learn to work on cars and be a professional without school and training and be the very best.

So does your auto mechanic call himself a professional and the guy down the street that also works on cars does not?
They both as the main source of income work on cars so I guess, another opinion, they are both professionals.

OK
I am a professional gambler
I am a gambler

What again qualifies one at being a professional gambler?

Quote: Mission146

That's fine, pursuant to my personal definition of what a professional gambler is, your opinion is exactly wrong.

let us throw away your definition and mine for what is a professional gambler.

Quote: Mission146

He gambles as a source of income, You may define the term in a different way than I do, though, so I appreciate that he may not meet your definition.

What does the book on "being a professional gambler" say again?
not your or my opinion on what it is

After he loses his bankroll (or 2 or more of them may be needed) and works to get another one
I think he will finally see what it is to be a professional gambler.

Sally

Well I'm crying because I don't fit your definition of professional gambler. What does losing my bankroll and getting another have to do with professional gambling? I hope to never lose my bankroll. I don't even care if I'm known as a professional or not, I really don't care, at the end of the day all that matters is $. Of course on the way if I have a bad day of course it's gonna suck, and if I win of course it's gonna be great. Some of the posters here seem to enjoy reading the stories so I'll keep typing them out if they want them, and maybe to keep the haters reading it too lol, even though they are more then welcome to block the posts if they don't like what's on it.

WTF, Msally?? How is he under any obligation to answer YOUR questions and satisfy YOU, or meet your defintion of anything? Who died and left you judge and jury?

This is exactly why most professional and even serious players choose not to participate on sites like this.

Quote: kewlj

So djatc, I wouldn't blame you if you if after this inappropriate 'judging' that has taken place if you decided to stop sharing your experiences,

Thank you for sharing your opinions too.

you see it that way?
I voiced my opinions as did the OP voice his.

so are the rules here, if you do not have anything NICE to say, do not post
and nice will be voted on by the mods?

"inappropriate 'judging'"
a black man kills a white man (I am not black or white)
a white man kills a black man
a black man kills a black man

Sally

Quote: kewlj

WTF, Msally?? How is he under any obligation to answer YOUR questions and satisfy YOU, or meet your defintion of anything? Who died and left you judge and jury?

Thank you again for your opinion

Quote: djatc
I just got back from this slaughter-fest and am in shock.
I can't believe you can run this bad on games with an advantage.

That is being professional! (just my opinion)

My 2 questions were
what do you believe in how bad it can be?
and how do you arrive at that belief?

That is being judge and jury
I do not get it at all

silence speaks louder than your post

Sally

Quote: mustangsally

by who's standards?
Yours? I am not impressed

His?
He refuses to answer a few simple questions I asked.
That speaks volumes to me.

I read his blog and some more of his threads.
He is always up when winning and always down when losing.
That is not being a professional gambler IMO.

and we may be around the same age too.

Mine? again my opinion is he is not a professional gambler and his words have proved it to me.
we all have our opinion here.

also, one more time here
I went to see my professional doctor yesterday
I went to see my doctor yesterday

Is there a difference between being a doctor and a professional one?
Maybe not. Most places require one to prove they are a doctor. school and school and on hands training.

Same with my mechanic.
I went to see my professional auto mechanic yesterday
I went to see my auto mechanic yesterday

But that can be different.
One can learn to work on cars and be a professional without school and training and be the very best.

So does your auto mechanic call himself a professional and the guy down the street that also works on cars does not?
They both as the main source of income work on cars so I guess, another opinion, they are both professionals.

OK
I am a professional gambler
I am a gambler

What again qualifies one at being a professional gambler?
let us throw away your definition and mine for what is a professional gambler.

Quote: Mission146

He gambles as a source of income, You may define the term in a different way than I do, though, so I appreciate that he may not meet your definition.

What does the book on "being a professional gambler" say again?
not your or my opinion on what it is

After he loses his bankroll (or 2 or more of them may be needed) and works to get another one
I think he will finally see what it is to be a professional gambler.

Sally

No offense but who peed in your cheerios. He had a bad run and he vented that's what people do. The definition of professional just means someone who makes the bulk of their money doing something. Dj makes the bulk of his money from gambling so yes he is a professional gambler. Also talking about he is down when losing and up when winning that is how everyone is. Heres a hint guy running billion dollar brokerage account is pissed off when things go south and elated when things are up does that make him not a professional. Same with top researchers I mean I can guarantee that no matter who you are you are happy as can be when you prove a theorem and you are thoroughly annoyed when you have made no progress on it for months or years.

Professional gamblers need not be robots they simple need to make sure to play smart. There is no indication DJ was making any mistakes from being angry. Again I'd rather be the guy who gets angry and can play with a 1% advantage when angry then the zen master playing baccarat at a disadvantage. Now of those two who would you say is "professional" the guy who keeps his calm while losing or the guy who gets upset about it?

Quote: djatc

Well I'm crying because I don't fit your definition of professional gambler.

WOW!
You get so worked up because someone has a different view than you do.
I just expressed my opinions
That is all
I even asked a few questions that you did not answer.
I really am not hurt one bit because of that.

Quote: djatc

What does losing my bankroll and getting another have to do with professional gambling? I hope to never lose my bankroll.

I hope you do.
so big deal, we have a different opinion here.
If you do not understand about losing a bankroll, wait until it happens.

Quote: djatc

I don't even care if I'm known as a professional or not, I really don't care, at the end of the day all that matters is $.

I do not care either.
I love blue as my fav color.
It should not even matter to anyone unless they also love blue?

Have fun
and I really mean that

you do not have to ask me anything at all
why bother?
Sally

KEWLJ Were you ever a "sarcastic asshole" with a dealer because you were losing? The op's words, not mine. Snippy with food servers, pissed because people were having fun playing slots ?

I think not ! ! !

Any chance OP will ever apologize to the dealer for being an asshole ?

I think not !!!

I have been a jerk at poker table and went back to the game and apologized to the guy in person. Could have called, but I don't believe
in insulting somebody in front of the world and whispering am apology in private.

Think the OP will ever apologize to that single Mom serving him food or the dealer who was sympathetic ?


I think not !

Quote: mustangsally

WOW!
You get so worked up because someone has a different view than you do.
I just expressed my opinions
That is all
I even asked a few questions that you did not answer.
I really am not hurt one bit because of that.

That was sarcasm. I've never been angry at anything that goes on here, it's all just words. I'll explain it to you so you don't really think I'm curled up in a fetal position because you probably would enjoy that.

Quote: Buzzard

KEWLJ Were you ever a "sarcastic asshole" with a dealer because you were losing? The op's words, not mine. Snippy with food servers, pissed because people were having fun playing slots ?

I think not ! ! !

Any chance OP will ever apologize to the dealer for being an asshole ?

I think not !!!

I have been a jerk at poker table and went back to the game and apologized to the guy in person. Could have called, but I don't believe
in insulting somebody in front of the world and whispering am apology in private.

Think the OP will ever apologize to that single Mom serving him food or the dealer who was sympathetic ?


I think not !

Its good to know you know DJ inner workings. I mean you absolutely know that while occasionally you lose your temper you are so awesome and apologize but there is no chance DJ would do that because he is significantly less awesome. Got to ask though how did you develop these powers to look into someones soul and see what they were thinking and realize that there is no chance they will apologize because they lost their temper.

Sarcasm off again all you know about DJ is that he got angry once and got a little snippy why don't you think he will apologize how do you know you are such a better person then him?

I used the word think . Just my opinion. Don't mind if I have one, do you ?

This is a forum, not a mutual admiration society. Not like when Evenbob the peacemaker posted regularly here > LOL

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Don't confuse betting big when you have the edge with "money management".

So, how much are you really down at blackjack? No one is buying this "up $12k" nonsense.

OK ,.....so...I give up, whats the joke? What do you call the difference between, betting big when you have the edge and betting little when you don't, and money management ? This better be good , don't disappoint me!

Haha! And as for my $12 K nonsense, that" no one" is buying,......Hey!! HELLO !! Breaking News!!!!....No one is selling either!!
Your last statement just confirmed for me that you and the inverse of your "no one" else (everyone you know) considers this an unusually LONG RUN phenomenon that seldom happens as I had hopefully suspected.
I humbly thank you and graciously accept your unintended compliment.
Since you've challenged the validity of my play,, Here's a hint : Do the math correctly and you might figure out how I got there.....That is after you've mathematically solved the mystery of the Great Nonsense Pyramids of Egypt which don't exist either of course!! Haha! You may have to think outside the box a little. HAVE FUN!!

Quote: Twirdman

No offense but who peed in your cheerios.

Thank you for sharing all your opinions too.

really did not like the mental picture you painted

but my girlfriends can not stop laughing at you.

but I am not laughing at you, just with you

Sally

Quote: Buzzard

KEWLJ Were you ever a "sarcastic asshole" with a dealer because you were losing? The op's words, not mine. Snippy with food servers, pissed because people were having fun playing slots ?

I think not ! ! !

Any chance OP will ever apologize to the dealer for being an asshole ?

I think not !!!

I have been a jerk at poker table and went back to the game and apologized to the guy in person. Could have called, but I don't believe
in insulting somebody in front of the world and whispering am apology in private.

Think the OP will ever apologize to that single Mom serving him food or the dealer who was sympathetic ?


I think not !

Me? I try not to be an 'asshole', because it is against who I am. I really try to treat everyone with respect. From a business standpoint (my business), it is not advantageous do anything or act in any way that makes yourself more memorable, to pit, to dealers, to the guy in surveillance that is watching with no sound. My goal is to have all these people forget about me immediately after I have departed. But, yes, I am sure I have failed at that at times, and my demeanor is different at different times.

But we are not talking about me, we are talking about Djatc. If you want to say that controlling his emotions and frustration better based on what he has shared is something he should work on, that's a fair criticism, and one that I would agree with. I think controlling his emotions better would be beneficial to djatc. We all have things or areas that we need to or are trying to improve.

But I don't see that as any sort of determination about whether is a professional player or not. I personally don't use the term 'professional' often, because in my mind it implies a level of expertise, that I don't possess and am still striving for. I usually say something along the lines of I play blackjack for a living. But I think the technical definition should be something along the lines of the majority of your income comes from such activity. It doesn't really have anything to do with how you behave. Tiger Woods is a bit of a douche at time. Other sports figures and actors are a-holes most of the time. They are still professional sports figures and actors.

Quote: Buzzard

Well, are you gonna stay down on climb back on that horse? And act less snippy to people who are not as lucky as you.

I've met this guy, when he says he was snippy, I bet the waitress asked if he wanted more coffee and instead of responding, "No, thank you, I'm fine," it was a terse, "No, I'm fine."

Glad to hear that mission it's just when a guy post he was a sarcastic as whole, rants about servers having no compassion for people who lose money, and hated to look people in the face who are having fun. Well I can believe he was a server in the past, just hard to believe he tips 20 percent while in a black mood. I only get a few months but based on chats with other dealers, except for a regular who got tipsy, the number of sarcastic assholes who offer an apology, even mumbled sorry about the other night is less than the square root of one.
If losing affects him this way, heshouldstop gambling.

Quote: kewlj

But I don't see that as any sort of determination about whether is a professional player or not.

This is how the OP ended his first post in this thread

"So if you want to be a professional gambler,


remember that you can get extremely lucky,
and come down just as fast.
Even with bankroll requirements, can you psychologically handle losing at EVERY game in the casino for weeks and weeks?"

OP is now giving unsolicited advice, IMO, to those that might "want to be a professional gambler"

that to me means he thinks of himself as a professional gambler
and I again say he is not from now reading all of his blog posts and all the threads he has started.

so what?
It is just my opinion just as well as his opinion that he is.

"Cue the slaughter fest a few days ago..."
"but seeing the bank account go down and down psychologically does put me in a sour mood"
"It's been a great year since I moved to Las Vegas"
"I split defensively only"
"and came back for the slaughter"
"I ran so bad at DB I estimate a 75% return over 10k or so"
"I just got back from this slaughter-fest and am in shock"

and I did not make these up
Sally

Babe. Forget about reconciling our marriage in the parallel universe. I am starting to fall in love with mustang Sally !

Oh I forgot I'm not allowed to make any suggestions, comments, or offer any opinions because I'm going to piss off a bunch of people who could ignore my thread instead of offering their opinions however misguided they may be. Why I even bother here I dont know why. I cant write about gambling on a gambling forum, incredible.

Quote: djatc

Oh I forgot I'm not allowed to make any suggestions, comments, or offer any opinions because I'm going to piss off a bunch of people who could ignore my thread instead of offering their opinions however misguided they may be. Why I even bother here I dont know why. I cant write about gambling on a gambling forum, incredible.

DJ I appreciate your stories. I don't understand why people don't just block threads when they don't like the topic or the poster. There have been so many counter productive posts in this thread.

Well, I have spent too much of the day couped up at home, while my neighbors abuse my backyard, pool and hot tub for their son's high school graduation party. See what a nice guy I am. Although not so nice that I didn't want to not be around to keep an eye on things.

Now back to the topic at hand, djatc. My comments and thoughts throughout this thread were based on dj's posts in the thread combined with some other things said in the past and/or that I thought I knew about him. I didn't research his history by reading his blog (until a couple minutes ago) and I didn't go back researching and reading all his posts looking for contradictions. That's not my deal.

But, I will not say, that in reading his blog in the past couple minutes, I see some red flags. I was under the impression that dj had moved here like a year ago and his play and results were a bit more stable than they appear to be. I thought (not sure where I got the impression) that he was playing more blackjack and doing machine play as a supplemental thing, more along the lines of what my partner and I do. In reading his blog, I now get the impression machine play is his primary game. That is a bit of a red flag for me. I am not saying you can't make a living based on VP and machine play. Obviously some (few) do. I can say, that I don't think I could do that as my primary thing.

So, is he a "professional gambler"? I don't know. Nor do I care that much. If he wants to call himself that, fine. If some of you want to challenge that...well, whatever.

But, I am going to go back to my 'technical' definition. If the majority of your income comes from said activity and pays your bills, I think the professional label is allowable. Djatc says he fits that bill. I wish him nothing but success. If you all want to fight about it go right ahead.

One more thing about this technical definition that I use. In my first 3 years of supporting myself from blackjack play, I made $31,000. That's total for three years. Lol. Average 10 grand a year and my second year I made less than 5 figures for the year. Many people would not consider that making a living. But, I paid my half of the rent and utilities, and it kept me in mac & cheese and PB & J sandwiches. A struggling type of living, no doubt, as many 21 years olds struggle, but it paid my bills. Now of course the last few years averaging 6 figures have been just a bit easier to digest (than those PB and jelly sandwiches), but I have no problem including all the years in my now 11 year totals.

So, now I am off to clean up the yard and pool area and take a dip in the tub. Good night and good bickering.

Quote: kewlj

Well, I have spent too much of the day couped up at home, while my neighbors abuse my backyard, pool and hot tub for their son's high school graduation party. See what a nice guy I am. Although not so nice that I didn't want to not be around to keep an eye on things.

Now back to the topic at hand, djatc. My comments and thoughts throughout this thread were based on dj's posts in the thread combined with some other things said in the past and/or that I thought I knew about him. I didn't research his history by reading his blog (until a couple minutes ago) and I didn't go back researching and reading all his posts looking for contradictions. That's not my deal.

But, I will not say, that in reading his blog in the past couple minutes, I see some red flags. I was under the impression that dj had moved here like a year ago and his play and results were a bit more stable than they appear to be. I thought (not sure where I got the impression) that he was playing more blackjack and doing machine play as a supplemental thing, more along the lines of what my partner and I do. In reading his blog, I now get the impression machine play is his primary game. That is a bit of a red flag for me. I am not saying you can't make a living based on VP and machine play. Obviously some (few) do. I can say, that I don't think I could do that as my primary thing.

So, is he a "professional gambler"? I don't know. Nor do I care that much. If he wants to call himself that, fine. If some of you want to challenge that...well, whatever.

But, I am going to go back to my 'technical' definition. If the majority of your income comes from said activity and pays your bills, I think the professional label is allowable. Djatc says he fits that bill. I wish him nothing but success. If you all want to fight about it go right ahead.

One more thing about this technical definition that I use. In my first 3 years of supporting myself from blackjack play, I made $31,000. That's total for three years. Lol. Average 10 grand a year and my second year I made less than 5 figures for the year. Many people would not consider that making a living. But, I paid my half of the rent and utilities, and it kept me in mac & cheese and PB & J sandwiches. A struggling type of living, no doubt, as many 21 years olds struggle, but it paid my bills. Now of course the last few years averaging 6 figures have been just a bit easier to digest (than those PB and jelly sandwiches), but I have no problem including all the years in my total.

So, now I am off to clean up the yard and pool area and take a dip in the tub. Good night and good bickering.

When I read his blog I noticed that he plays a lot of -ev games. I think this is one thing Sally is saying in why he is not a professional gambler. Sally please shoot me down nicely if I misinterpreted what you have been trying to get at.

My thoughts though. A professional businessman makes his money being a business man. On the weekend he goes to the casino and plays craps for fun. Why couldn't a professional gambler do this as well? If they are making their money playing +ev games but then for fun they play -ev games, those -ev plays don't automatically disqualify you as a professional gambler. JMHO.

I did play craps with mission when he came out here, as well as play some bar VP while chatting with tringlomane, and me Axel his gf, the wizard and another associate played uth while we drank and hung out. Babs and I played bj switch and pai gow as well. These were all -ev games but +life EV. They were all nice as I expteced and I never bet an amount where I felt was too much, actually I stuck to table minimum as I'm cheap lol.

Quote: cwwbjr

OK ,.....so...I give up, whats the joke? What do you call the difference between, betting big when you have the edge and betting little when you don't, and money management ? This better be good , don't disappoint me!

Money management is about having win goals and stop losses. Some people think that this allows them to beat game that have a built-in house edge. They are wrong, of course.

Since you've challenged the validity of my play,, Here's a hint : Do the math correctly and you might figure out how I got there.....That is after you've mathematically solved the mystery of the Great Nonsense Pyramids of Egypt which don't exist either of course!! Haha! You may have to think outside the box a little. HAVE FUN!!

According to you (in your first post under your current identity) you are not good at math. So, how the hell would you know if I've done the math correctly?

Quote: Buzzard

Babe. Forget about reconciling our marriage in the parallel universe. I am starting to fall in love with mustang Sally !

Buzz,

Sally is a lovely girl, and I've enjoyed her return. dj is a friend, and I sympathise with his doldrums. I see you urging him to get back on the horse in your crusty old-Baltimore Uncle way. So you go ahead and enjoy Ms. Sally all you want, or at least all she'll stand for. Josie and I both know you love us more. :)

Quote: mustangsally

by who's standards?
Yours? I am not impressed

His?
He refuses to answer a few simple questions I asked.
That speaks volumes to me.

I read his blog and some more of his threads.
He is always up when winning and always down when losing.
That is not being a professional gambler IMO.

and we may be around the same age too.

Mine? again my opinion is he is not a professional gambler and his words have proved it to me.
we all have our opinion here.

also, one more time here
I went to see my professional doctor yesterday
I went to see my doctor yesterday

Is there a difference between being a doctor and a professional one?
Maybe not. Most places require one to prove they are a doctor. school and school and on hands training.

Same with my mechanic.
I went to see my professional auto mechanic yesterday
I went to see my auto mechanic yesterday

But that can be different.
One can learn to work on cars and be a professional without school and training and be the very best.

So does your auto mechanic call himself a professional and the guy down the street that also works on cars does not?
They both as the main source of income work on cars so I guess, another opinion, they are both professionals.

OK
I am a professional gambler
I am a gambler

What again qualifies one at being a professional gambler?
let us throw away your definition and mine for what is a professional gambler.

Quote: Mission146

He gambles as a source of income, You may define the term in a different way than I do, though, so I appreciate that he may not meet your definition.

What does the book on "being a professional gambler" say again?
not your or my opinion on what it is

After he loses his bankroll (or 2 or more of them may be needed) and works to get another one
I think he will finally see what it is to be a professional gambler.

Sally

Sally, seriously, you don't know any professorial gamblers that whine/complain/bitch? WOW, WOW... I don't know one that I have not heard complain, whine, moan or bitch or cry. Even ones that have more money then god. I know a few guys that do very, very well solely on AP, and all they do is bitch, complain, cry all day long, even when they win they complain they didn't win enough.

I have seen one very successful high limit AP put his fist to the machine and break the glass.

Pro Poker players, like you mentioned, ARE ALWAYS BITCHING AND CRYING(want some videos?). Lets not even get in to pro athletes

I bet you some of the more well known AP's have and do get emotional after losing. This has nothing to do with being a professional or not. It may be a character flaw or just NORMAL. Get a list of well known AP's like Wong and others. I have talked to a few well known APs and you bet your ass, even deep in their career, they have been emotional about losing and just couldn't believe how bad they have run on something. Guys even think it was close to impossible and they had to have been cheated at first, only to find out they probably just ran bad.

You don't think Professional Doctors, Layers , mechanics don't get mad? Apparently you haven't seen my dad toss a wrench Across the shop he owned because a part wouldn't fit right. According to your theories, Maybe be a doctor needs to kill a patient to be a better doctor or become numb to the emotions.

YOUR OPINION IS WRONG. DJ has made a very good amount of money for the short time he as been doing this. He came to Vegas with a semi embarrassing SHOCKINGLY LOW AMOUNT. I know he has made over 20k just on his own on just ONE one play over the course of approximately 5 months alone. I would have to guess he only spent 20% of his time playing time playing it.

he knows mostly what he is doing. NO one knows everything in the AP world. not even close, not even the BEST, but He has come a long,long way from the time he got here, its very impressive. At first I think he was to ambitious and didn't realize anything with a low % can kick your ass or just the opposite.

I think he wanted to play everything and try everything he read or heard about. He may of thought if you have an advantage, play right and the money just comes in. Once he focused and got the Vegas BUG out of his system, This was happening to him, he started off with a big bang Royal after Royal after Royal. When things go your way for a long, long time, it is a shock to finally hit a slump.

I think His words in the OP were over exaggerated to get the point across and to possibly add some emotions. In person I never hear him really seriously crying about gambling. I have no doubt he knows dam well how bad someone can run, he has seen others run very bad. If he didn't know, he would be out playing much higher limits and would have already blew his BR.

I don't know what his BLOG talks about or if its current. I do know he has been asked to NOT blog about plays We share or play together and not to give out a bunch of information. So he is really only able to talk about insignificant things he does on his own. He has a great work ethic that's Does he have some things to work on? Who doesn't. He is and will continue to be a successful AP he will NOT go broke as long as there are things to play. He is willing to learn new things and explore so he will adjust to his environment and continue to grow as a person and an AP.

TBH, I would be more worried if he wasn't upset about losing. I have seen that before and it seems to be very dangerous.

Quote: kewlj

But, I will not say, that in reading his blog in the past couple minutes, I see some red flags. I was under the impression that dj had moved here like a year ago and his play and results were a bit more stable than they appear to be. I thought (not sure where I got the impression) that he was playing more blackjack and doing machine play as a supplemental thing, more along the lines of what my partner and I do. In reading his blog, I now get the impression machine play is his primary game. That is a bit of a red flag for me.

With all due respect I believe this is from your love of Black Jack and lack of VP experience with VP/slot plays.

I think you are thinking of him playing "JUNK PLAYS" 10/7 $1 trying to get a few bucks a week in free play or some -EV game on 2 x points days (of course some people would conciser that a great play) and you would be right that would be a red flag. He is not playing that crap all the time. He is doing much more interesting things with a much better percentage. He has done many plays that have a guarantee Lock to make money. Also he has not limited himself to anything.SO NO RED FLAG

I would say his ONLY yellow flag would be that he has a tad bit to much gamble in him.

He LOVES to play. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, I think its a double edge sword. For instance personally I think there was no reason for him to go looking for something to play while he was in Washington.

As I said before he cant share this other information and talk about it publicly on a forum. If he wants to share something in private that's his call. After a few of us started working with DJ we seen one of his posts where he talked about something ( It was no real big deal) But I asked why? HE quickly realized he shouldn't talk about most things publicly, as it will hurt you financially and he will get no benefit from it. This may have caused some confusion in his blogging.

BJ can be way more dangerous, depending on what you are doing. You need a much bigger Bankroll and level of experience to pull off counting. I would say its harder to count cards successfully then it is to make money from playing VP/slots, If you know what to look for in VP/Slots and how best to take advantage of situations. I have actually tried to discourage him from playing ANY blackjack unless its something very spectacular and special.

I would agree once can make much more money in Black Jack if properly bankrolled and you love and live for it. Its a completely different animal and you have to deal with dealers, pit crews other players. Its not for everyone.

I feel for ya djatc, I decided to get a job after having my worst downswing in three years of counting after moving out here plus 4k in vp trying to generate mailers. I quit again now though lol. Don't worry about the criticism, any forum is in a lot of ways a cess pool, a lot of people post just to argue or criticize others. On the other hand, you should not be surprised to receive some criticism or blowback for referring to yourself as an ap or a pro and then making several negative ev plays for fun. Be careful about that stuff, if you don't have a large bank you might need that extra ev when you hit swings like this, rest assured large swings in both directions will happen again.

djatc - hang in there. I don't play for a living, I have another primary source of income, but have experienced the pains of running bad when playing in positive EV situations. I think you vented here to what you thought were like minded people, and in some cases are getting beat up for it. Shrug it off and keep looking for and playing positive situations, it will turn around.

This is now the most disappointing thread.... A really nice guy just vents a little, kind of one of the purposes of this forum, and gets attacked for I'm not really sure what.... By a member whose takes on pretty much everything else I like!
DJATC is a professional gambler, by anyone's reasonable definition.... maybe with lots to learn, both professionally and personally, but he goes to work every day in a casino playing games of chance after finding opportunities that will give him an edge on the house.
As BBB and rd4 have said, his mean and surly behavior is probably less testy than mine on a good day for me!
This is another one of those 'internet examples', that I bring up..... I am sure that if DJ, MS, Buzz were at a bar having a brew and DJ started moaning about the bad streak, the 3 of them would just have a laugh about it....
Of course you don't have to tell, but the $6000 has no context for me..... Of course you know that some gamblers bet more than that on a single hand....
So.... Is your +EV for a month $6,000.... or $10,000? or $2,500? If it is $6,000 then your expected rest of the 11 months would be $66,000, and thus you can easily withstand this dent.....

Quote: SOOPOO

This is now the most disappointing thread.... A really nice guy just vents a little, kind of one of the purposes of this forum, and gets attacked for I'm not really sure what.... By a member whose takes on pretty much everything else I like!
DJATC is a professional gambler, by anyone's reasonable definition.... maybe with lots to learn, both professionally and personally, but he goes to work every day in a casino playing games of chance after finding opportunities that will give him an edge on the house.
As BBB and rd4 have said, his mean and surly behavior is probably less testy than mine on a good day for me!
This is another one of those 'internet examples', that I bring up..... I am sure that if DJ, MS, Buzz were at a bar having a brew and DJ started moaning about the bad streak, the 3 of them would just have a laugh about it....
Of course you don't have to tell, but the $6000 has no context for me..... Of course you know that some gamblers bet more than that on a single hand....
So.... Is your +EV for a month $6,000.... or $10,000? or $2,500? If it is $6,000 then your expected rest of the 11 months would be $66,000, and thus you can easily withstand this dent.....

He does have a backup plan. And a place to stay if he busts out.

Quote: djatc

Oh I forgot I'm not allowed to make any suggestions, comments, or offer any opinions

This may be your opinion and maybe some other opinions but not mine.
where are these rules?

Quote: djatc

because I'm going to piss off a bunch of people

who did you piss off?
what kind of an opinion is this?
Oh, Sally, he does not answer any of your questions!

Quote: djatc

who could ignore my thread instead of offering their opinions however misguided they may be. Why I even bother here I dont know why. I cant write about gambling on a gambling forum, incredible.

Thank you again for expressing yet another one of your opinions.
my opinion is your last one is completely wrong.

I stand by all my opinions
Sally

Quote: SOOPOO

This is now the most disappointing thread.... A really nice guy just vents a little, kind of one of the purposes of this forum, and gets attacked for I'm not really sure what.... By a member whose takes on pretty much everything else I like!

Thank you so much for sharing your opinion.
It appears to me, and this is another opinion, that every member here at WoV has an opinion.
That has to be a good thing.

"gets attacked" are very strong words in my opinion
please show who attacked the OP and how this was done exactly.

I think "gets attacked" is just another opinion

You did not like my comment (opinion) that I was happy with his loss
or was it I hope he loses his bankroll.


Quote: djatc
Oh I forgot I'm not allowed to make any suggestions, comments, or offer any opinions...

Quote: SOOPOO

This is now the most disappointing thread.... A really nice guy just vents a little, kind of one of the purposes of this forum, and gets attacked for I'm not really sure what.... By a member whose takes on pretty much everything else I like!
DJATC is a professional gambler, by anyone's reasonable definition.... maybe with lots to learn, both professionally and personally, but he goes to work every day in a casino playing games of chance after finding opportunities that will give him an edge on the house.
As BBB and rd4 have said, his mean and surly behavior is probably less testy than mine on a good day for me!
This is another one of those 'internet examples', that I bring up..... I am sure that if DJ, MS, Buzz were at a bar having a brew and DJ started moaning about the bad streak, the 3 of them would just have a laugh about it....
Of course you don't have to tell, but the $6000 has no context for me..... Of course you know that some gamblers bet more than that on a single hand....
So.... Is your +EV for a month $6,000.... or $10,000? or $2,500? If it is $6,000 then your expected rest of the 11 months would be $66,000, and thus you can easily withstand this dent.....

Somebody once told me no matter what you do, 1/3 of people will like it, 1/3 won't care, and 1/3 will hate you. At least the numbers are matching up. I would like to say hi to all the haters.

Quote: mustangsally

This may be your opinion and maybe some other opinions but not mine.
where are these rules?
who did you piss off?
what kind of an opinion is this?
Oh, Sally, he does not answer any of your questions!

Thank you again for expressing yet another one of your opinions.
my opinion is your last one is completely wrong.

I stand by all my opinions
Sally

Just out of curiosity what kind of AP do you play. I didn't even realize you were an AP. I have read many of your math posts, but I never picked up on the fact that you AP'ed.

Quote: djatc

Somebody once told me no matter what you do, 1/3 of people will like it, 1/3 won't care, and 1/3 will hate you. At least the numbers are matching up. I would like to say hi to all the haters.

No hater here. I've lost several thousand in just a couple of shoes. You lost "somewhere in the $6,000 range". Is that an estimate? Don't you keep records of your play?

Quote: 1BB

No hater here. I've lost several thousand in just a couple of shoes. You lost "somewhere in the $6,000 range". Is that an estimate? Don't you keep records of your play?

Yes its all on my phone through an app. That's how I WS able to determine my losses

Quote: djatc

Yes its all on my phone through an app. That's how I WS able to determine my losses

Obviously, no one likes to lose. If you are just venting, great... vent away. It will turn around eventually.

The only thing that I would be concerned about is, make sure that you are playing within your bankroll. All the edge in the world won't save you from going broke if you overbet your bankroll. In other words, if your frustration is just because you hate to lose... great! You should hate to lose. I hate to lose too. But, if your frustration is because you're losing more than your bankroll can handle, that is something to be concerned about.

Also, I'd really recommend hand-written records, to make the IRS happy.

Quote: 1BB

No hater here. I've lost several thousand in just a couple of shoes. You lost "somewhere in the $6,000 range". Is that an estimate? Don't you keep records of your play?

FYI there are plenty of AP's that don't keep records. Usually ones that have been doing it for a while.

Hell, there are guys who could not tell you within 50k what they have or where they keep it. Sure, they usually know what they start the day off with and and know what they win or lose with in a few bucks. But they don't run home and write it down each nigh properly.


They start the year with estimating X amount they play good stuff, they don't care, because they are confident in what they play and know they make money each year. It would be a nightmare to keep track of everything they are doing. Keeping track of every free play pick up, sports bet, ultimate X play, Match play, progressive, promotion, cash back, free offers would be very time consuming. They keep track of partnership plays for splitting purposes and after they split toss they toss the info out.

Can you imagine finding 40 different bonus game plays in a day, buying lunch, stopping for gas, paying a bill, loaning a friend a few bucks, tipping, playing some BJ, then doing 10 other things and keeping track of each one?