Ben Affleck backed off at Hard Rock for counting
Quote: darkozI've been looking for an excuse to say that for ten years now
Don't ask me why
Quote: 1BBI've briefly watched Ben play a couple of times. His basic strategy was very good but I wouldn't call it perfect. I have no idea what his betting spread was because, as reported, he would jump his bet from one modest hand to three hands at table max. The casino had no problem with that.
Many years ago I watched Ben play.
He doubled 8 vs dealer 6 in a slight negative count. This would be correct in a single-deck game, but he was playing a 6-deck shoe. I also watched him hit 15 vs dealer Ace in a H17 game (should have surrendered). And he should have been playing S17 betting all black. WTF?
Maybe his game is stronger today.
On a side note, Bo Derek knows perfect basic strategy. I'll bet my entire bankroll on that!
Perhaps he caught a glimpse of the next card, knew the dealer's hole card, or used it as a cover play (lol?)....regarding 8v6.
Quote: MathExtremistNot in Nevada, or most states other than New Jersey. He's got no basis for a suit. Nevada casinos can kick out winning gamblers, or anyone really.
No basis? How do you figure? Having a case that is likely to lose (which may or may not be the case) is much different than having no legal basis for a claim. If the issue is can casinos kick out anyone without a reason (kicking someone out for not breaking any rules is de jure unreasonable--but de facto, for counting it seems reasonable), then he has a basis for a suit. There is no law that says they have such absolute authority, even if there are laws that grant them apparent authority in most cases.
yes I seen the comment that asked why he needs to cheat.Quote: IbeatyouracesI get a kick out of reading all of the comments at the bottom of all of the various news reports online. You really get to see how ignorant and stupid people are when it comes to casino gambling.
It's almost like he had been warned before and ignored the request. possibly for notoriety or something.Quote: IbeatyouracesI agree. This could be a huge PR nightmare for them with other high rolling celebs.
Perhaps the Don Jonson story had something to do with this.
Quote: AxelWolf
Perhaps the Don Jonson story had something to do with this.
Huh?
My guess is BA is just a regular guy who's a celebrity, and by chance likes to gamble, like many people do when they are in LV. Instead of being a common ploppy, he figured he'd spend 2 hours learning the basics of counting cards and basic strategy. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people did this. But -- he's a celebrity and has a huge amount of $$$. If he loses money, probably doesn't mean that much to him. After all, he's just enjoying himself gambling (primarily gambling), but also has a taste of card counting. I heard he was not that good at counting, but who knows.
Doesn't matter who/which has the bigger bankroll -- matters who has the bigger balls, and this case, Ben Affleck's balls are 10x larger than the hard rock's.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI agree. This could be a huge PR nightmare for them with other high rolling celebs.
Yes, in particular if they want to continue to position themselves as the hip / cool / rockstar place to be and BE SEEN. Even my wife had heard about this through a news blurb on Yahoo or whatever.
Well, with my lack of math skills it would surely take several years to master. I do know that when Thorpe's book hit the best seller list, everyone was flocking to Vegas and losing their counting skills when hit by the "buzz" of throbbing music, free drinks, half naked women and chatty floor persons. Although initially fearful of Thorpe's book, it was the best thing that ever happen for the casinos.Quote: JSTATpresumably from wannabe advantage players who are bound to lose their shirts.
Boy, are them days gone forever ! Beside the growth of popular games, penny slots, TITO, player tracking, etc that has lifted slots up, Blackjack had gone to 6/5 and labor is still there too. While in slots no hard count to speak of , no change girls on the floor, no
hopper fills, etc. SLOTS ARE KING !
Quote: JSTATBrillant PR move by Vegas casinos for barring Ben Affleck at card counting. My blackjack YouTube views have blown-up die to him, presumably from wannabe advantage players who are bound to lose their shirts. Counting is an art that takes years to master.
OK, we are going to back off Affleck because he's supposedly playing at a 1 percent advantage. Really? The AP's are sooooo dangerous. BIg F****** Lie
Quote: IbeatyouracesTook me a couple of weeks.
Yeah, me too. This whole "counting is hard" thing is a myth. You don't have to be a genius. You have to know how to count.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYeah, me too. This whole "counting is hard" thing is a myth. You don't have to be a genius. You have to know how to count.
As has been said by many people over the years, learning how to count cards is easy. Getting the money out consistently, and getting away with it, is the hard part.
What i meant is.... possibly he heard of all the PR DJ got for the BJ stuff. Or the casino got in a panic over all the news as of late IE: Don Johnson/ Phil IveyQuote: RSHuh?
My guess is BA is just a regular guy who's a celebrity, and by chance likes to gamble, like many people do when they are in LV. Instead of being a common ploppy, he figured he'd spend 2 hours learning the basics of counting cards and basic strategy. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people did this. But -- he's a celebrity and has a huge amount of $$$. If he loses money, probably doesn't mean that much to him. After all, he's just enjoying himself gambling (primarily gambling), but also has a taste of card counting. I heard he was not that good at counting, but who knows.
Doesn't matter who/which has the bigger bankroll -- matters who has the bigger balls, and this case, Ben Affleck's balls are 10x larger than the hard rock's.
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/burning-question--how-smart-does-ben-affleck-have-to-be-to-count-cards-205650641.html
I wonder why they didn't just flat bet him? If they knew they were going to back him off, why not just flat bet him and let hi leave on his own accord.
Did they think that might be even worse?
Perhaps we have some ulterior motives at work here?
Really weird decision imo.
I was thinking of motives for Rounders II then remembered he wasn't in the original.
All people see are people betting big and winning, so it would be in casinos interest letting some go on at a loss just considering them indirectly paid shills.
I think this is all better press for the casino than Affleck. I think he doesn't need it, but they need more people to know they do casinos.
Quote: Tomspurhttp://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/burning-question--how-smart-does-ben-affleck-have-to-be-to-count-cards-205650641.html
What a terrible article. "Complex mathematical systems"...
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWhat a terrible article. "Complex mathematical systems"...
I thought the same thing regarding the article, but was highly amused by most of the comments below the article. For the most part a bunch of uniformed gamblers giving bad advice to other uniformed gamblers. I guess not that much different than every day in any casino.
Quote: MidwestAPI thought the same thing regarding the article, but was highly amused by most of the comments below the article. For the most part a bunch of uniformed gamblers giving bad advice to other uniformed gamblers. I guess not that much different than every day in any casino.
I overheard a GREAT conversation at a casino cafe a few weeks ago, with a husband explaining to his wife how to play blackjack.
A lot about getting into a rhythm and how third base has to make the dealer bust if the table is playing as a team. Also, never split 9s, because 18 is a good hand.
Quote: Dicenor33Without counting, black jack is just another casino game. It will loose it's popularity as more and more people get booted out.
Many Blackjack players believe that card counters "cost them money". For example:
If a player (especially at 3rd base) " plays wrong " (changes play strategy according to the count) he will take the dealer's bust add, or he'll take my good double down card, etc.
If a player "goes in and out" (enters during good counts, exits during bad counts), he'll make me lose and ruin the order of the cards.
If a player plays one spot, and then plays two spots (a different way of changing bet amounts), or plays two spots and then plays one spot, it will ruin the order of the cards. Sometimes players who "play properly" will sit out hands when another player starts playing two spots in order to "preserve the order of the cards". If the counter wins a hands the non-counting player will feel like they " cost them a hand that they should have won. If a two-spot player goes down to one spot, a non-counting player will start playing two spots and then blame the counter for "making them lose".
According to many amateur players, the only " right way" to count cards is to play at the start of every shoe, play the same number of spots, play every round, never vary basic strategy, and only change your bet amount. Unfortunately, this just doesn't work in today's shoe games. Some amateur players think that casinos don't do enough to fight card counters!
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI overheard a GREAT conversation at a casino cafe a few weeks ago, with a husband explaining to his wife how to play blackjack.
A lot about getting into a rhythm and how third base has to make the dealer bust if the table is playing as a team. Also, never split 9s, because 18 is a good hand.
Table as a team blackjack. I love it. It never works out when I lose money in a shoe and ask the players at the table who won for a rebate.
Quote: nvr55xxIf a player "goes in and out" (enters during good counts, exits during bad counts), he'll make me lose and ruin the order of the cards.
That does cost the other players at the table money.
Louie , the nice dealer, no longer works here. Those damn counters don't tip, and the casino could not give him a raise. Because
the counters are stealing money from the house. NO FAIR
Now I have to stand here 10 minutes because of no mid shoe entry, because of counters. And then, soon as I sit down, the hot looking
dealer I always flirt with has gone on break. Damn counters NO FAIR
Well, now the table minimums are high , so the counters can't bet just $5 , then $100. NO FAIR
6/5 Blackjack. UGH The pit boss told me in confidence if it were not for counters , the house would pay 2/1 for a blackjack. NO FAIR
I have to play longer to get a comped meals because the casino hates feeding the counters NO FAIR
I mean, I do it, but I don't pretend that it's something that it's not.
This is probably true, however its not really the average AP/ card counter who causes this to happen. It's the casinos fault for being dumb and listening to all the fear mongering out of the mouths of casino AP consultants, people who make a living from doing this. It's in the consultants best interest to scare casinos. Casinos need to stop spending money on AP consultants and use that money to hire better pit bosses with some common sense. Seriously how hard is it to spot a card counter? you can train a monkey to do it.Quote: Buzzard
6/5 Blackjack. UGH The pit boss told me in confidence if it were not for counters , the house would pay 2/1 for a blackjack. NO FAIR
I realize their are some sophisticated AP moves, but by the time the consultant figures out whats going on IT'S TO LATE. Consultants are usually just regurgitating old information. A consultant probably gives the casino a faults sense of security.
Disclaimer: This is not directed at any one individual.
Whatever you bet first hand out, that's your bet for that deck.
Most will bet table minimum. Dealer can remember the exceptions. Or at high limits, the eye in the sky can.
Genius publicity. That guy has some Detroit hustle.Quote: IbeatyouracesThe D isn't scared.
http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2014/05/06/ben-affleck-blackjack-hard-rock-las-vegas-d-casino
http://www.tmz.com/2014/05/06/ben-affleck-blackjack-hard-rock-las-vegas-d-casino/
One thing I HATE are " smart" players who tell other players how to play. If a player "plays wrong", so what? By criticising and putting down new (and possibly unskilled) players, all you're doing is scaring off future players and higher house edge players. The players that remain are better at Basic Strategy. The players that are scared off move to other table games (do players ever get blamed for "ruining the order of the cards" in Baccarat or Caribbean Stud Poker?). The casino responds by worsening the rules and/or removing Blackjack games. Unfortunately, many players prefer continuous shufflers because they prevent players from "ruining the order of the cards". CSMs are usually at lower minimums, where newer players are more likely to be. As these new players become more experienced, and not necessarily more knowledgeable, the will see CSMs as the way Blackjack is "supposed" to be played.
Just a few of my thoughts. Replies appreciated.
Quote: nvr55xxMany Blackjack players believe that card counters "cost them money". For example:
If a player "goes in and out" (enters during good counts, exits during bad counts), he'll make me lose and ruin the order of the cards.
This 'myth' is essentially true, and is a legitimate reason for a gambler to dislike card counters. Not so much the 'order' of the cards part.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThere is nothing wrong with counting, but you can't deny that wonging in and out according to the count costs the play-all players money.
I mean, I do it, but I don't pretend that it's something that it's not.
On the rare occasion the ONLY other player at the table knows what I am doing, I won't do this out of respect. If there are two players in such a situation, screw him, he doesn't have to play all, his choice. But otherwise, you can pretend it has no effect because 99.9% of the time they are concerned about the flow of the cards, even if they pegged you as counting, they'd be clueless you were letting them eat low cards.
Quote: SonuvabishThis 'myth' is essentially true, and is a legitimate reason for a gambler to dislike card counters. Not so much the 'order' of the cards part.
I've never heard a player say that another player who entered mid-shoe "took the good cards", only that they "ruined the order of the cards". I used to think that every player who entered mid-shoe must be a card counter and only played during "good counts". I now know that players only enter during "good counts" about half the time. I actually like it when a a player asks me if it's okay to come in. I'll say yes, absolutely if the shoe is bad (for me).
Quote: SonuvabishOn the rare occasion the ONLY other player at the table knows what I am doing, I won't do this out of respect. If there are two players in such a situation, screw him, he doesn't have to play all, his choice. But otherwise, you can pretend it has no effect because 99.9% of the time they are concerned about the flow of the cards, even if they pegged you as counting, they'd be clueless you were letting them eat low cards.
I don't stay at the table and sit out of bad counts. But i the count gets bad I will either go to the bathroom or pick up my chips and leave.
Quote: nvr55xxI've never heard a player say that another player who entered mid-shoe "took the good cards", only that they "ruined the order of the cards". I used to think that every player who entered mid-shoe must be a card counter and only played during "good counts". I now know that players only enter during "good counts" about half the time. I actually like it when a a player asks me if it's okay to come in. I'll say yes, absolutely if the shoe is bad (for me).
Why are you playing bad shoes?
Quote: IbeatyouracesAs was mentioned on Norms site, Ben had been playing at Motorcity recently and I witnessed this for myself today.
Did you notice the amount of his wager(s)?
I saw an article saying he was betting up to $5000 a hand at Greektown.
Quote: nvr55xxI've never heard a player say that another player who entered mid-shoe "took the good cards", only that they "ruined the order of the cards". I used to think that every player who entered mid-shoe must be a card counter and only played during "good counts". I now know that players only enter during "good counts" about half the time. I actually like it when a a player asks me if it's okay to come in. I'll say yes, absolutely if the shoe is bad (for me).
Most people don't understand the effect a card counter has...no one ruins the order of the cards (except for dealers who expose their hole card and cause you to bust an 18 with a 6). A card counter who wongs or spreads to multiple hands does in fact take the good cards, which in turn hurts the odds for other players. What ploppies think has no bearing on reality.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI don't stay at the table and sit out of bad counts. But i the count gets bad I will either go to the bathroom or pick up my chips and leave.
I usually get up, but sometimes I just don't feel like it. I will sometimes play thru a bad count at min as well, then maybe sit out the last couple hands of the shoe only if it continues to tank. When it's crowded, you sometimes cannot switch tables easily. And getting up and down every five minutes for consecutive negative shoes just looks odd. I used to be very methodical about it, which just made people angry. If I get into those counts where you should hit 17 against Ace, I auto sit out because I'm gonna piss someone off no matter what, so might as well wong.
Quote: IbeatyouracesMGM's largest table is $500-$2500. Very small for one of their properties.
Remarkable. That Detroit property is rumored to be very profitable. If true, the low limits must be the reason. No big winners only a lot of small winners and a bunch of losers plus I suppose everyone is paying for their rooms and food and drinks. I've seen $2500.usd on small cruises to nowhere.
