The Cromwell is open
http://vitalvegas.com/cromwell-opened-casino-blog-new-place-play-strip/
Quote: BozThe casino opened before the hotel. Here are some pictures from Vital Vegas
http://vitalvegas.com/cromwell-opened-casino-blog-new-place-play-strip/
Sigh, I miss Bills.
I miss sitting at the bar playing video poker and listening to Fat Elvis
The only 50 cent 1 dollar poker cash game on the strip, just a real friendly fun game that was right by their sports book.
I've stayed at Bills just for the poker.
Now no poker room, no sports book.
sigh
Guess we can't have everything.
The one thing that surprised me is how narrow the place is. I guess I had forgotten how narrow a spot that is.
The rest is your typical CET. Mostly $10 6-5 tables.
http://www.vegaschatter.com/story/2014/4/22/14139/1706/vegas-travel/Blackjack+At+The+Cromwell+Might+Surprise+You%2C+But+The+Rest+Of+The+Casino+Won%27t
Quote: tringlomaneWow...I wonder how long that will last. CET is trying to step up on the BJ front it looks like.
I'll be back in Vegas the first week of June. I suspect those S17 tables will already be a distant memory by that point.
With a point of 10, several players bet $5 on the hard 6. When I hit it, they parlayed, then I hit it again. They weren't gutsy enough to parlay again and just accepted the payouts of $450 each. Not too bad for watching two rolls.
I only made two points that hand, but a player at the other end of the table made two $5 hop bets on the point number at the exact right moments. Timing is every in that game.
Quote: ams288I'll be back in Vegas the first week of June. I suspect those S17 tables will already be a distant memory by that point.
Either I'm totally blind or they are already gone (or were never there). I walked through the whole casino twice and didn't see any S17 tables. I'm wondering if it was a mixup as I think there were exactly two 3-2 tables; the rest 6-5.
Quote: AcesAndEightsEither I'm totally blind or they are already gone (or were never there). I walked through the whole casino twice and didn't see any S17 tables. I'm wondering if it was a mixup as I think there were exactly two 3-2 tables; the rest 6-5.
I would have to agree it was a mixup. This goes against everything CZR is doing with BJ and would make no sense. They don't put 185 Million of borrowed money they cant possibly pay back into a casino to offer rules like this. The fact that there are even 2 3/2 tables is a shock.
Casinos need to keep their handle high in order to keep their win high (theoretically :) ).
Would it not make sense to, when all other casinos in Vegas are headed towards to worse rules which would include 6/5 games, advertise your property as excellent rules, 3/2 payout, S17, get your HE down to about 0.46% BUT have your blackjack tables slamming from morning, noon and night?
Wouldn't that make sense? I mean the casinos are always trying to get the upper hand over one another, wouldn't this type of situation lean perfectly towards instant marketing?
What do you lose by offering blackjack with a 2% HA and conversely how much can you gain by pumping up your handle and still holding between 12 to 16% on blackjack?
I would make the friendliest games in town, best rules, keep the HE at about 0.46% and make those dealers deal their little hands off. If the counters come, let them come. Let them play and do what they have to do. Counting is not a guarantee and if you win too much I invite you for a nice dinner, and ask you nicely to not play blackjack in my joint again........It has to be +EV just for the dinner right? :)
Greed kills, I have no doubt about that!
Quote: Tomspur
I would make the friendliest games in town, best rules, keep the HE at about 0.46% and make those dealers deal their little hands off. If the counters come, let them come. Let them play and do what they have to do. Counting is not a guarantee and if you win too much I invite you for a nice dinner, and ask you nicely to not play blackjack in my joint again........It has to be +EV just for the dinner right? :)
What you are describing is not a casino, it's an idealized charity organization (real charity not even half like that).
Quote: pokerfaceWhat you are describing is not a casino, it's an idealized charity organization (real charity not even half like that).
That is absolutely not true. What you are saying is every counter in every casino all around the world ALWAYS win and counters make up at least 20% of the card playing community?
I just don't agree. I'm not saying I will not back off counters, I'm just saying I will make the best rules in Vegas and have my blackjack tables bursting at the seams. Surely that is what it is all about?
With counters having a MAXIMUM 1% advantage, I say bring on the counters, I will take my chances.
Make the games attractive to everyone.
But hey, I'm not a casino executive and I will more than likely never be one either, so yeah, don't quit your day job just yet :)
Quote: TomspurWhat you are saying is every counter in every casino all around the world ALWAYS win and counters make up at least 20% of the card playing community?
I never said counters always win. They don't.
But casinos known to back off counters even if they are losing. That is a fact.
Putting a good pay table in machine doesn't help the hold I would think because a ploppy would keep more money playing 10/7 db horribly as opposed to a semi sharp player playing 9/6/4 db.
Anyway so its a real big chance to take offering great games since you'll hold half as much as a 6:5 game which is everywhere. Will enough people say hey this casino has better odds, let's go here. One place in particular offers 3:2 single deck but I'm sure their operating costs are nil or close to it (el cortez).
Quote: pokerfaceI never said counters always win. They don't.
But casinos known to back off counters even if they are losing. That is a fact.
I understand but that is my point, casinos don't run on brains, they run on experience......I find the two to be almost polar opposites.
I wish that casino operators would realize that counters are no threat and to make games attractive, fun and QUICK, which will make them more money at the end of the day.
In fact another small change I would make is to take away all side bets. I don't like them and they slow the game down (even though their HE's are much higher tha the base game)......
Down with all side bets :)
Quote: TomspurWith regards to blackjack rules and the marketing thereof.....
Casinos need to keep their handle high in order to keep their win high (theoretically :) ).
Would it not make sense to, when all other casinos in Vegas are headed towards to worse rules which would include 6/5 games, advertise your property as excellent rules, 3/2 payout, S17, get your HE down to about 0.46% BUT have your blackjack tables slamming from morning, noon and night?
Wouldn't that make sense? I mean the casinos are always trying to get the upper hand over one another, wouldn't this type of situation lean perfectly towards instant marketing?
What do you lose by offering blackjack with a 2% HA and conversely how much can you gain by pumping up your handle and still holding between 12 to 16% on blackjack?
I would make the friendliest games in town, best rules, keep the HE at about 0.46% and make those dealers deal their little hands off. If the counters come, let them come. Let them play and do what they have to do. Counting is not a guarantee and if you win too much I invite you for a nice dinner, and ask you nicely to not play blackjack in my joint again........It has to be +EV just for the dinner right? :)
Greed kills, I have no doubt about that!
Let me know when you open your casino; I will come in and play and hope that I win that dinner!
In all seriousness though, what you say makes sense. I'm just happy there are a few S17 games left in town that I can afford.
FWIW, a floor person at the Cromwell craps table did say there is a S17 game in the high limit room. I meant to walk through and check, but I ran out of time. This would be less inconsistent with CET's SOP, as they do have S17 tables in the Caesars Palace limit room. I'm surprised they offer it at a smaller casino like the Cromwell, but it's encouraging to see at all.
Quote: djatcI wonder if its like video poker how things are in bj. 6:5 is a foreign concept to most ploppies, so they don't care either way. MAYBE they might see single deck and think oh cool only 1 deck!
Putting a good pay table in machine doesn't help the hold I would think because a ploppy would keep more money playing 10/7 db horribly as opposed to a semi sharp player playing 9/6/4 db.
Anyway so its a real big chance to take offering great games since you'll hold half as much as a 6:5 game which is everywhere. Will enough people say hey this casino has better odds, let's go here. One place in particular offers 3:2 single deck but I'm sure their operating costs are nil or close to it (el cortez).
As a part time AP, I don't like what the casinos are doing with BJ and video poker paytables; but from a business standpoint I agree with what they are doing. if I was running a casino, I would rather have a 33% utilization of a 6:5 BJ table than a 75% utilization of a good 3:2 game. If you just profile the players at each table and do the math the 6:5 game will come out ahead almost every time.
Quote: BozEl Cortez offers a "good" game. Now just try and play it and see what happens.
It is almost a rite of passage to be backed off at the El Cortez.
Hold to me is saying a chump had $100 and we only got $10, shame on us. Drop is what, how much money is in the till? Who cares ,unless the win is positive.
I mean after you pay royalties for a game and side bets , isn't the win what counts . Is that a big factor in the spread of 6/5 games ?
I never see WIN mentioned anymore Am I missing something ?
Quote: DRichI would rather have a 33% utilization of a 6:5 BJ table than a 75% utilization of a good 3:2 game. If you just profile the players at each table and do the math the 6:5 game will come out ahead almost every time.
But players are not playing proper basic strategy. The HE in a typical 3:2 might be 0.6% and 6:5 might be ~2.0%, but the players are not playing at a level to actually achieve 0.6% or 2.0%. They are more likely to be playing with a 4% or 5.5% HE. 33% utilization on a 5.5% game or 75% utilization on a 4.0% game...which is better?
No.Quote: TomspurWould it not make sense to, when all other casinos in Vegas are headed towards to worse rules which would include 6/5 games, advertise your property as excellent rules, 3/2 payout, S17, get your HE down to about 0.46% BUT have your blackjack tables slamming from morning, noon and night?
Though I'd love to do that too, its a matter of economics. The casino down the street with a two foot high sign "Blackjack 6:5" would still get alot of business even though you are offering 3:2. Darn few players know the difference or care. After a few drinks, even fewer know the difference.
No one is going to wake up and plan a trip to Vegas because a casino is offering a few tidbits less in house edge. Just as a strip club will make the same money if its girls are all "7"s than all "10"s. Casinos want a mix of customers, most of them seem to want slot players more than anything else.
Now Double Action table and patent at that time was 2 rectangular betting places at each of 6 positions. You could bet 1 or both hands.
Hey, they had a patent. Anyway Double Action was 6 deck. Now it and SD game were both 3/2 and Dealer stood on all 17's. Any guesses as to which table you had to wait to get a seat at and which one always had several open spots ? ? ?
Quote: 1BBI was surprised to learn that this casino was built by Michael Gaughan back in 1979. He must have been a kid.
I wish he still owned it.
Is what they are doing now working? Or is what they were doing before working better?Quote: DRichAs a part time AP, I don't like what the casinos are doing with BJ and video poker paytables; but from a business standpoint I agree with what they are doing. if I was running a casino, I would rather have a 33% utilization of a 6:5 BJ table than a 75% utilization of a good 3:2 game. If you just profile the players at each table and do the math the 6:5 game will come out ahead almost every time.
Do I think a strip casino could go with a: guaranteed best payouts marketing campaign? It would take more then just having good BJ rules, they would have to change everything and stick with it for the long run. and build up a good reputation over time. I They have to be "where the locals play on the strip" have no doubt that a place on the strip with tons of full pay games even some on low limits along with a few promotions would get Everyone from here to stay and play there. People like Mission, BBB, Nareed and tons of others. Is it worth it to the casino?
Quote: AxelWolfIs what they are doing now working? Or is what they were doing before working better?
Do I think a strip casino could go with a: guaranteed best payouts marketing campaign? It would take more then just having good BJ rules, they would have to change everything and stick with it for the long run. and build up a good reputation over time. I They have to be "where the locals play on the strip" have no doubt that a place on the strip with tons of full pay games even some on low limits along with a few promotions would get Everyone from here to stay and play there. People like Mission, BBB, Nareed and tons of others. Is it worth it to the casino?
As a tourist, I don't want to go "where the locals play". I want to go where all the girls in the tiny skin tight dresses are. That's why MGM Grand spent all that money on Hakkasan, and why they are packed every night.
Their strategy seems to be to pass their joint off as a cool, elegant place.
Which would be fine, EXCEPT they are across the street from Aria and Cosmo, which top that category.
OK .... "Where the sexy locals play."Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAs a tourist, I don't want to go "where the locals play". I want to go where all the girls in the tiny skin tight dresses are. That's why MGM Grand spent all that money on Hakkasan, and why they are packed every night.
Quote: AxelWolfOK .... "Where the sexy locals play."
lol. The sexy locals don't care about the video poker paytables. All 6 people who care about that are at the Palms.
This was brought up in a different thread they compared South Point (i think) to Silverton. SP is booming with players Silverton is a ghost town often.Quote: AxiomOfChoicelol. The sexy locals don't care about the video poker paytables. All 6 people who care about that are at the Palms.
Quote: AxelWolfThis was brought up in a different thread they compared South Point (i think) to Silverton. SP is booming with players Silverton is a ghost town often.
Obviously I'm exaggerating.
But my point is that big strip hotels don't make money by offering good bets. They make money by getting people in through other means. Big events, or popular clubs. Once people are there they will play whatever's available.
Now, MGM Grand does have good blackjack games (great, actually) but go there on weekend and you will see all the tables with $300 mins. Go there on a weekend night, after a big event (like boxing, or the super bowl viewing parties) and good luck finding an S17 game under $500. And, even if you have the bankroll to play those limits, good luck finding an empty seat.
Clearly trying really hard to get that dressed-up casual look. Or is it the fancy dressed-down look? I couldn't tell, ha.
Quote: AxelWolfThis was brought up in a different thread they compared South Point (i think) to Silverton. SP is booming with players Silverton is a ghost town often.
Silverton has a funky woody smell to it, and I think it's by design since it's supposedly like a log cabin. I don't like it or hate it, it just exists.
