teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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April 11th, 2014 at 5:41:34 PM permalink
"The Borgata suit claims that Ivey insisted on bringing his own deck of cards because he was superstitious. "

"Missouri-based card manufacturer Gemaco Inc. is also named in the suit, which features charges of breach of contract, fraud, conversion, unjust enrichment, civil conspiracy and racketeering."

http://calvinayre.com/2014/04/11/casino/borgata-accuses-phil-ivey-edge-sorting-at-baccarat-tables/
Poetry website: www.totallydisconnected.com
zippyboy
zippyboy
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April 11th, 2014 at 5:42:09 PM permalink
Forgive me, I'm just a poker player who doesn't play bacc, but I'm confused. The money goes down before the cards are dealt, then there's no more decisions to be made by the player until the hand is over, right? It's not like Ivey sees a pattern on the back of the card in the shoe and decides to take it or decline it like in blackjack, right? Am I missing something?

Why is this a thing?
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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April 11th, 2014 at 5:45:02 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Mental and physical are two different levels of acceptance to most people I would think.

And beat me to the punch ME, that's the only law that looks applicable here looking through the database. Ivey will probably have some good lawyers on his side to twist the hell out of that law though.

Merriam-Webster says:

fraud: the crime of using dishonest methods to take something valuable from another person

Is ordering the dealer to turn the cards a certain way fulfill the above definition? Meh.

Considering what Phil Ivey did with Full Tilt though, makes me sick people want him to win this lawsuit. Phil Ivey is scum.


It`s not that I want Ivey to win it`s that I don`t want the casino to win. I f they win this then what about shuffle tracking and then cutting the high cards to the front of the shoe? Now that is mental and physical.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
sodawater
sodawater
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April 11th, 2014 at 5:46:26 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

This is a good point. Borgata is the only thing worth talking about in AC. And unfortunately, the average person forgets/is unaware of how Phil Ivey played a major role in screwing over millions of online poker players at Full Tilt, so Borgata will look like the bad guy in the press I would think.



Ivey didn't screw anyone over at FTP. In fact, he didn't play the WSOP that year out of solidarity with the unpaid players. FTP was horribly mismanaged but I don't think Ivey ran any day-to-day operations over there before black friday.
sodawater
sodawater
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April 11th, 2014 at 5:48:39 PM permalink
Quote: zippyboy

Forgive me, I'm just a poker player who doesn't play bacc, but I'm confused. The money goes down before the cards are dealt, then there's no more decisions to be made by the player until the hand is over, right? It's not like Ivey sees a pattern on the back of the card in the shoe and decides to take it or decline it like in blackjack, right? Am I missing something?

Why is this a thing?



Some cards have patterns on the edges that differ slightly depending on the way they are oriented. If the dealer turns all the 8s and 9s one way and leaves the rest of the cards the other way, the next time those cards are shuffled, you will be able to tell whether the first card in the shoe is an 8 or a 9.

If you see the first card in the shoe is an 8 or 9, you'd have a massive advantage by betting player. If it isn't an 8 or 9, you gain an advantage by betting banker. (The first card of the hand goes to the player. "Player" is just a name of a hand in bacc, as you can bet on either of the two hands.)

In minibacc, cards are re-used. In big table bacc, they are not.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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April 11th, 2014 at 5:50:27 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

"The Borgata suit claims that Ivey insisted on bringing his own deck of cards because he was superstitious. "

"Missouri-based card manufacturer Gemaco Inc. is also named in the suit, which features charges of breach of contract, fraud, conversion, unjust enrichment, civil conspiracy and racketeering."

http://calvinayre.com/2014/04/11/casino/borgata-accuses-phil-ivey-edge-sorting-at-baccarat-tables/


I would think that would be against the gaming commission rules.You would think the casino must provide the equipment/cards.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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April 11th, 2014 at 6:05:03 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

Ivey didn't screw anyone over at FTP. In fact, he didn't play the WSOP that year out of solidarity with the unpaid players. FTP was horribly mismanaged but I don't think Ivey ran any day-to-day operations over there before black friday.



So borrowing money from FTP that you don't timely pay back doesn't screw others over? This article linked below says Ivey owed FTP $4M. Thank God I had 99% of my money in PokerStars, and they were generous enough to bail FTP out for no real good reason other than to use the software I guess. I stick by my "scum" statement.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/12741-poker-pros-ivey-lindgren-benyamine-and-flack-owe-full-tilt-millions
sodawater
sodawater
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April 11th, 2014 at 6:22:41 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

So borrowing money from FTP that you don't timely pay back doesn't screw others over? This article linked below says Ivey owed FTP $4M. Thank God I had 99% of my money in PokerStars, and they were generous enough to bail FTP out for no real good reason other than to use the software I guess. I stick by my "scum" statement.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/12741-poker-pros-ivey-lindgren-benyamine-and-flack-owe-full-tilt-millions



If part of Ivey's agreement to represent FTP included the site fronting his buy-ins, that's on FTP, not Ivey. I don't think FTP anticipated its cash cow would come to a halt suddenly or they would have been more proactive about collecting.
Pokeraddict
Pokeraddict
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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April 11th, 2014 at 6:44:57 PM permalink
Does anyone know where the actual lawsuit document may be found?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:11:57 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

Ivey didn't screw anyone over at FTP. In fact, he didn't play the WSOP that year out of solidarity with the unpaid players. FTP was horribly mismanaged but I don't think Ivey ran any day-to-day operations over there before black friday.

You think that's the real reason he didn't play the WSOP that year? I'm sorry but I have to laugh at that. He was probably in fear for his life and he was to busy edge sorting anyways. It was a pure PR move. He absolutely did not do it our of solidarity. His plan worked I see, he pulled the wool over your eyes.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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