What's up with Harrah's

First I need to put a disclaimer up. I know I'm asking a loaded question regarding Harrah's (and Caesar's in general) and it may or may not be correctly loaded. I do however feel like I have enough information to at least make this thread and acquire more information this way.

Just turned 21, entered the gambling scene and started doing research on my possibilities. Something seems to catch my attention as I was doing my researches on casinos. Harrah's (and to some extend other Caesar's casinos) seems to have quite a bad reputation among people who talked about it. This is across many sites, many sources, and many different people's opinions.

In general it sounded like "Harrah's has the worst odds in their games" "Harrah's is a dump" "Harrah's detain and manhandle people illegally" "Harrah's player's club has shit comps" etc. Perhaps the only "good" thing I ever hear about them is "Harrah's is big and famous" but that's about it, and that's arguably not "good" either.

So are these information accurate? I'm aware that just like a win/lose streak in a game, I may have by chance ran into only the bad evaluations of Harrah's. But I do feel like It's at least statistically significant enough that I would make a thread to acquire more information on it.

What's up with Harrah's?

For low level players who will need hotel rooms, Caesar's is extremely generous with room offers. The comps they give to table game players are quite low. The VP players bemoan bad paytables, and the BJ players bemoan bad rules. To me the free rooms outweigh the other issues, as I play pai gow poker, and pai gow tiles mostly. I can usually stay for free at the Rio, and will for 3 days during the WoV convention (get together) in April.

Harrah's is probably the best casino chain out there. I can't think of another company I'd rather do my gambling business with. They've always treated me fairly.

Unfortuantely Harrah's is always going to be under pressure because of its large amount of debt. They will cut costs wherever they can. I guess rooms are seen as some kind of "distressed inventory" which, if not filled for free with customers who could possibly spend money on their properties, the rooms will simply go to waste. Harrah's does have the 2nd largest hotel room footprint of any company in Vegas I believe (Behind MGM who owns 10 strip properties), so they have a lot of rooms to give away.

Now CET is actively seeking to get a foothold in Japan and in future perhaps Korea but those casinos will add to the debt in the short term and those properties would take years before they start contributing to the income statement.

I think CET properties, apart from the free rooms, should be given a wide berth right now. I think their staff are under pressure from the top, their paytables are rediculous and their comp levels are criminally low.

Perhaps some day they will turn it around and afford people some quality and value but right now they are a skip for me!

deleted

I enjoy Harrah's very much and have for over 20 years. I am a medium roller, and if you were to add up all the amounts Harrah's has comped me that I've taken (a small portion of what they've offered; I've used probably less than 10 % of what they've made available) it would still add up to well over 100K, in RFB's, shows and event tickets, premium gifts, etc. I understand their program has taken a recent downward revision, and I've seen some of that, but am still satisfied with their comps, properties, and quality of service. Some of their games are very good, their table aggregates are reasonably good. Their slots are not as good as they were and so I've played less of them than I used to, and I am told (here) that their VP has been adjusted downward pretty severely in the recent past. (I don't play a lot of VP so can't speak to that.)

All in all, I'm quite happy with them, especially the Harrah's brand hospitality. Not as fond of Caesar's in any location.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I think this is an overall generalization. They do have a few gems scattered around the country.

Yes, they really do. And their new properties seem to be Horseshoe branded, which means at least good craps rules & the ability to write discretionary comps.

Quote: Neutrino

First I need to put a disclaimer up. I know I'm asking a loaded question regarding Harrah's (and Caesar's in general) and it may or may not be correctly loaded. I do however feel like I have enough information to at least make this thread and acquire more information this way.

Just turned 21, entered the gambling scene and started doing research on my possibilities. Something seems to catch my attention as I was doing my researches on casinos. Harrah's (and to some extend other Caesar's casinos) seems to have quite a bad reputation among people who talked about it. This is across many sites, many sources, and many different people's opinions.

In general it sounded like "Harrah's has the worst odds in their games" "Harrah's is a dump" "Harrah's detain and manhandle people illegally" "Harrah's player's club has shit comps" etc. Perhaps the only "good" thing I ever hear about them is "Harrah's is big and famous" but that's about it, and that's arguably not "good" either.

So are these information accurate? I'm aware that just like a win/lose streak in a game, I may have by chance ran into only the bad evaluations of Harrah's. But I do feel like It's at least statistically significant enough that I would make a thread to acquire more information on it.

What's up with Harrah's?

Harrah's has treated me great. I'm not a huge player. I'll play 12 hours of table games, an hour or so of slots and a bunch of poker over a 3 day weekend every 3 or 4 months and I get more comp rooms than I know what to do with. I've also received concert tickets and food discounts in Laughlin.

The Cosmopolitan and The Orleans have both treated me good as well and I've played much less there. Mostly just poker at The Orleans.


ZCore13

I would like to now hear opinions from AP's since the issue of harrah's having bad odds (something that concerns me the most) hasn't been addressed yet.

Quote: Neutrino

I would like to now hear opinions from AP's since the issue of harrah's having bad odds (something that concerns me the most) hasn't been addressed yet.

I addressed it. You have to mention a specific game. Harrah's BJ 'tends' to have fewer games that an AP can play. VP has fewer high paytable games. Craps is never a player advantage game so the rules are irrelevant for an AP. Same with roulette. If you let the forum know what exactly you are actually looking for you would get better answers.....

Quote: Neutrino

Harrah's (and to some extend other Caesar's casinos) seems to have quite a bad reputation among people who talked about it. This is across many sites, many sources, and many different people's opinions.

Be careful. People may be talking about different things and different entities.

Some people say Harrah's and mean Harrah's. Some people say Harrah's and mean "oh, that darned corporate umbrella that keeps changing its names and shuffling properties around".

Some people say Harrah's and mean hotel rooms whereas some people say Harrah's and mean poker rooms and heck if you don't play poker what do care about poker rooms? If you don't play slots what do you care about how much they comp slot players, you probably care how much they comp craps players? Some people hate Harrah's because of what they've heard whereas others hate Harrah's because of what they have experienced.

For a while Hooters was the worst casino to work for, lousy attitude towards their dealers, lousy attitude towards their customers.... yet people still flocked there and some of them actually won and had a fairly nice time, so they recommended it.

Value depends upon your particular preferences, not on "reputation" because reputation is nowadays based on too many other factors.

Quote: FleaStiff

Be careful. People may be talking about different things and different entities.

Some people say Harrah's and mean Harrah's. Some people say Harrah's and mean "oh, that darned corporate umbrella that keeps changing its names and shuffling properties around".

Some people say Harrah's and mean hotel rooms whereas some people say Harrah's and mean poker rooms and heck if you don't play poker what do care about poker rooms? If you don't play slots what do you care about how much they comp slot players, you probably care how much they comp craps players? Some people hate Harrah's because of what they've heard whereas others hate Harrah's because of what they have experienced.

For a while Hooters was the worst casino to work for, lousy attitude towards their dealers, lousy attitude towards their customers.... yet people still flocked there and some of them actually won and had a fairly nice time, so they recommended it.

Value depends upon your particular preferences, not on "reputation" because reputation is nowadays based on too many other factors.

Nuetrino:

Also understand that people who are happy, don't complain. People who are unhappy, for what ever reason, complain. And complain loudly about it. And when you are the biggest kid on the block, they complain about you the most.

Do a search on Wal-Mart or McDonalds. Same thing.

JMVHO

SFB

slots players are huge whiners

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Neutrino

I would like to now hear opinions from AP's since the issue of harrah's having bad odds (something that concerns me the most) hasn't been addressed yet.

I addressed it. You have to mention a specific game. Harrah's BJ 'tends' to have fewer games that an AP can play. VP has fewer high paytable games. Craps is never a player advantage game so the rules are irrelevant for an AP. Same with roulette. If you let the forum know what exactly you are actually looking for you would get better answers.....

They have a lot of 6-5 blackjack, which rightly puts off intelligent gamblers. Also SOOPOO they do have crappy craps rules on the Field, with the 2 and and 12 both only paying 2-to-1 (other than odds multiples, this is one of the few craps payouts that gets monkeyed with).

Compare this to the MGM chain, which has at least kept 6-5 out of its nicer properties. As far as I know, there is no 6-5 in Bellagio or Aria, but I don't actually know for sure. I know Luxor and Excalibur are full of it, but even there you can still find plenty of 3-2 games.

And, their reputation really took a further hit with me when they started charging resort fees, after taking such a hard line against them in the beginning.

But after all that, they do give a way a shload of free rooms. And that is the only reason I will keep going back there.

Their blackjack also tends to have a rule taken out or added in where you wouldn't expect at the $10 tables. Double only on 10/11, no double after split, no resplitting aces etc. Some of their games aren't bad (about .5) but a lot of their games are from 1-2.5 for the 6:5 BJ games.

Quote: AcesAndEights

They have a lot of 6-5 blackjack, which rightly puts off intelligent gamblers. Also SOOPOO they do have crappy craps rules on the Field, with the 2 and and 12 both only paying 2-to-1 (other than odds multiples, this is one of the few craps payouts that gets monkeyed with).

But the field is a terrible bet anyway even at 3x/2x. -2.78% per roll is worse than any of the place, buy, or lay bets and is equivalent to the hardways. I rarely see field bettors; most people who buck odds that high are in the prop box.

I think craps is a good equalizer between properties. Even when the BJ rules are bad, you can't muck with the passline. I think the real distinction between big operators in LV regarding craps is how much they reinvest via comps. Do CZR properties comp pass/odds players better than MGM? If someone bets $100 passline with odds for an hour (and no other bets), their expected loss is roughly $50. How would that player be comped at CZR or MGM properties?

Quote: MathExtremist

But the field is a terrible bet anyway even at 3x/2x. -2.78% per roll is worse than any of the place, buy, or lay bets and is equivalent to the hardways. I rarely see field bettors; most people who buck odds that high are in the prop box.

Really? I see tons of field bettors. I think usually people who don't really understand the game, but can understand the field because it's simple: it wins or loses in one roll, and the winning numbers are right there on the felt. I agree it's a sucker bet either way.

Also just realized I made a goof in my last post: Caesars Palace LV actually still pays 3-to-1 on the 12. But every other CET property in Vegas is 2x/2x. I couldn't say for the CET properties outside of Vegas.

Quote:

I think craps is a good equalizer between properties. Even when the BJ rules are bad, you can't muck with the passline. I think the real distinction between big operators in LV regarding craps is how much they reinvest via comps. Do CZR properties comp pass/odds players better than MGM? If someone bets $100 passline with odds for an hour (and no other bets), their expected loss is roughly $50. How would that player be comped at CZR or MGM properties?

I have heard that CET now includes odds bets in their player ratings. If they didn't adjust the comp rate downward, then that would be a win for players.

Speaking from experience, I will make an educated guess that that action at CET will get you squat in terms of actual points, but will get you tons of free rooms at the mid-roller properties. Might need a couple of hours though. While that action at MLife will get you squat, in totality (okay, so like $4 in Express Comps).

I don't bet $100 pass line, but I do sometimes bet $25 pass line with 3 come bets, which essentially the same.

Quote: Neutrino

I would like to now hear opinions from AP's since the issue of harrah's having bad odds (something that concerns me the most) hasn't been addressed yet.

Well behaved AP's are not going to run on here and tell you about how good it is or isn't.

Quote: SOOPOO

For low level players who will need hotel rooms, Caesar's is extremely generous with room offers. The comps they give to table game players are quite low. The VP players bemoan bad paytables, and the BJ players bemoan bad rules. To me the free rooms outweigh the other issues, as I play pai gow poker, and pai gow tiles mostly. I can usually stay for free at the Rio, and will for 3 days during the WoV convention (get together) in April.

This is really a good situation for you and a great many others.

Most people look wistfully at Vegas and go to a local casino due to air fares and hotel room costs. Any comps for hotel rooms is a good thing for most gamblers. And Harrahs/Caesars/CET/EvilEmpire constantly look at gamblers and offer rooms and modest lures.

Yes, that Evil Empire seems to nick you like a mosquito biting at every opportunity but never really bleeding you dry. A craps field bet, a VP paytable, a this here and a that there... never enough to send you out in a huff but always relentlessly taking a few pennies here and there all day and night. And only the exceptionally knowledgeable and sober customers even notice the nicks anyway. Many players are happy to see those foot high signs about 6:5.

So from a business stand point it keeps them afloat to do things like that.

This is my post #666, so I figure it belongs in the Evil Empire thread.

Rollin' into the Quad next month ... Guy Fieri's Vegas Kitchen:



(EvenBob, finally you'll have a reason to visit the Strip.)

I can't mention Guy Fieri without linking to the famous review by Pete Wells. The New York Times restaurant critic was so ... startled by the dining experience that he composed his review entirely of questions:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/dining/reviews/restaurant-review-guys-american-kitchen-bar-in-times-square.html

Quote: gpac1377

This is my post #666, so I figure it belongs in the Evil Empire thread...

Nomination for "bet tie in post of all time".

Quote: gpac1377

I can't mention Guy Fieri without linking to the famous review by Pete Wells. The New York Times restaurant critic was so ... startled by the dining experience that he composed his review entirely of questions:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/dining/reviews/restaurant-review-guys-american-kitchen-bar-in-times-square.html

And I'll nominate this review in the "Best Skewer of a Restaurant" Category.

Quote: SOOPOO

For low level players who will need hotel rooms, Caesar's is extremely generous with room offers. The comps they give to table game players are quite low. The VP players bemoan bad paytables, and the BJ players bemoan bad rules. To me the free rooms outweigh the other issues, as I play pai gow poker, and pai gow tiles mostly. I can usually stay for free at the Rio, and will for 3 days during the WoV convention (get together) in April.

Just be sure that you don't over value the free rooms when you weigh them against the extra expected loss, especially if you are a video poker or black jack player. The rooms they offer can usually be booked mid week at remarkably low rates if you are paying your own way.

Got a cheap room at Harrahs.
It was one of the cheapest i could find on the strip.
I like CET because through my credit card rewards, i get platinum and eat for free
Checked in and instead of trying the 20 dollar trick, they offered an upgrade for 20 right away.
I took and am pretty happy.
I am actually impressed with my room. Recently renovated. I am quite pleased.
If you decline housekeeping, which i always do anyway. 10.00 food credit