Gambling for entertainment.
Quote:
1) example: you go to a movie with your date for a couple of hrs. (Cost $40) Leave with good experience. If you have $100 in your wallet, than basically that's what you intended to spend for the night and not much more. So your date doesn't want the extra bag of licorice, or smarties, or the extra large, extra butter popcorn... that makes you ahead (good feelings) even though you spent the $40, you still go home with $60 of what you intended to spend.
2) you go to the casino with "so much money" Subtract the "house edge" and leave the casino with "what you can afford to lose" equal to your feelings for cost of entertainment. Same deal as the movie night. You went there with what you expect to spend. You can never call it a bad night at the casino if you lose what you came to spend. Even though the house edge is present, there are many times you will eventually win (it's inevitable) and does not mean you have to "leave when your up", it means leave when you are satisfied with your entertainment for the day.
3) run simulations on how many times you go to the casino to spend "so much money"
a) once a week
b) twice a week
c) twice a day
d) everyday
Then calculate with your total income (example $25,000/year) of what you intend to spend per visit to the casino.
a) 100%
b) 75%
c) 50%
d) 20%
e) 10%
f) borrowed money from other sources
Then subtract the "house edge" right off the top (just use 5%) of the expected normal of what you're intended to lose/win.
But also remember:
a) no game is 50/50 because of that 5% to consider.
b) Consider your stay as a form of entertainment.
c) You didn't spend $15.00 in gas to drive to the casino to just win/lose your money. (reality is you expected to go there for the sole purpose of entertaining yourself in what they call "gambling"
Are you having a bad day at the casino "feeling unsatisfied" ?
a) call it a day while you still have gas money in your pocket to get you back home.
b) pockets are empty, don't hang around the casino because it just makes you feel even worse watching others enjoy their winning day.
c) don't leave the casino till your "feeling good" remember you came to spend only what you wanted to spend and after you spent it, you can enjoy the rest of your stay with free drinks at the bar or socialize with others sitting in the "Losers lounge" (Now that's funny)
Are you having a good day at the casino?
a) Keep going, endulge yourself for when the luck kicks in "ride that wave" because you enjoy yourself.
b) if you came with money to spend, then "spend it" if it doubles from winnings "let it ride" (this is the thrill of gambling and entertaining yourself)
c) when do you leave? Only when you have fulfilled your entertainment experience for the day.
d) what should I consider to do when i just won $1000 or more? "LEAVE THE CASINO" !!!!! Holy crap 1k is good... wait no its not... it's awesome! put it in your pocket or give it to a trusted friend to keep for you and just play with any extra for the sake of entertainment.
For entertainment I would rather play Xbox lol
How did you do
I lost 300.....but I had a blast
How did you do
I am down, but when you figure in the free drinks, the free meal, and my fun....I am about even.
how did yo do
I lost 500.....but my tier points are almost a gold level status.
How did you do
I lost 300.....but thats what I came to the casiono expecting to lose...
If you feel happy and jolly as you're losing, the
Marque de Sade could have used you as one
of his 'clients'. Casinos aren't there to entertain,
their job is to squeeze every dime they can out of you
because you were naive enough to walk into
their spider web of deceit and misdirection.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI don't see what the big deal is about paying for entertainment. If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. I see no difference between paying a few hundred dollars to go to a football game vs a few hundred to go to a bar for a night vs a few hundred to go to a casino for a night. It's all the same.
+1. You budget what you can spend on entertainment, and if you're entertained by cards/dice/whatever, great. (I am). But where else do you have a chance of THEM paying for your entertainment?
Quote: beachbumbabsBut where else do you have a chance of THEM paying for your entertainment?
I'm sorry, if you have that attitude, you're exactly
what the casino is looking for in a player. Somebody
who thinks that every time they play, the casino will pay
them. Of course that's impossible, it's part of the
misdirection I mentioned earlier. The number of regular
casino patrons who think they can get ahead and
stay ahead, far outnumbers those who know the truth.
Losing can be winning too, ex:
My theoretical loss was $100 on my video poker machine, but I only lost $50 and I got a free room, and we were going to stay at the hotel which cost $70 anyways, so I actually profited. In that case I'd feel pretty good that I "beat the odds".
There's a lot of scorn, especially among low level casino grinders, for casual gamblers who take way the worst of it. Just remember, without those people, whatever you do would probably be a lot harder, and that many of those people can afford to spend on one night's recreation what you might hope to earn in a month or more. Who's the fool now?
Quote: EvenBobI'm sorry, if you have that attitude, you're exactly
what the casino is looking for in a player. Somebody
who thinks that every time they play, the casino will pay
them. Of course that's impossible, it's part of the
misdirection I mentioned earlier. The number of regular
casino patrons who think they can get ahead and
stay ahead, far outnumbers those who know the truth.
Yeah, because the words, "Have a chance," imply that she thinks something will definitely happen.
By the way, have you read her signature?
Quote: EvenBobI'm sorry, if you have that attitude, you're exactly
what the casino is looking for in a player. Somebody
who thinks that every time they play, the casino will pay
them. Of course that's impossible, it's part of the
misdirection I mentioned earlier. The number of regular
casino patrons who think they can get ahead and
stay ahead, far outnumbers those who know the truth.
No question I'm exactly the person the casino is looking for. Have been for 20 some years. I don't feel at all defensive about enjoying what they offer, from great comps to -ev, for my entertainment dollar. I don't think I can get ahead. But I can play well enough to keep my losses within my budget and enjoy the journey, so I take the time to learn the nuances of the games I play.
Quote: LarrySI get a kick out of gamblers who rationalize losses with "fun".
How did you do
I lost 300.....but I had a blast
How did you do
I am down, but when you figure in the free drinks, the free meal, and my fun....I am about even.
how did yo do
I lost 500.....but my tier points are almost a gold level status.
How did you do
I lost 300.....but thats what I came to the casiono expecting to lose...
I don't think there is anything wrong with that. If my wife and I go to dinner and a movie we will be out $100 and be gone for 3 hours. We have fun so its a good night.
If we go to the casino. We take $100 plus $30 free play plus $30 food comps. We eat and play some low lever fun slot machines. We are gone 3 hours and we can be out $100 or be ahead $100 or more. At least with the casino we have a chance of coming home with more money than we started. When going to the movie there is .001 chance that we will come home with any money.
1.
the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes.
2.
the act or practice of risking the loss of something important by taking a chance or acting recklessly: If you don't back up your data, that's gambling.
Adult expensive entertainment. That's it! That's why I will be there this coming weekend!
Quote: beachbumbabsI don't think I can get ahead. .
But the majority of players do think that. How
do I know? I ask them, and have been asking
them for 3 decades. I asked a guy on Sunday
who was winning big at roulette. I actually asked
his wife, who was sitting behind him. I asked
if he was always this lucky and she said no, but
he did get ahead sometimes. I asked what their
eventual goal was and she said to stay ahead
for good, of course.
This false belief is rampant in every casino on earth,
and the casino makes no effort to change it. If
you accountant was pocketing 51% of your income
you would be appalled. The casino does it and people
tell themselves they will get ahead eventually. Insanity.
Quote: mdsgam·bling
1.
the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes.
2.
the act or practice of risking the loss of something important by taking a chance or acting recklessly: If you don't back up your data, that's gambling.
Adult expensive entertainment. That's it! That's why I will be there this coming weekend!
Gambling is like going to a strip joint and spending 200 bucks for a couple hrs of her time dancing on your lap. then leaving with that mental feeling of satisfaction but then again didn't get laid.
Oh my God! what the hell, that's a rip off.
I take it back, I take it back.
Quote: mds
Adult expensive entertainment.
The fact that you're here means you aren't
the average player a casino gets. They've
never heard of WoO or HE, all they know is
the lies they've told themselves about casino
gambling. And woe be unto you if you try
and wise them up, they will get hostile. I
don't do that anymore, wising up chumps
is dangerous.
Quote: djatcPeople go to casinos for entertainment? This is news to me. I thought they all go to win some money.
Exactly! Of course that's why they go. Saying its
entertainment is like saying you buy Playboy for
the articles. If the pics weren't there, they wouldn't
sell a single copy. Losers are the ones who call
gambling 'entertainment'.
Quote: EvenBob
This false belief is rampant in every casino on earth,
and the casino makes no effort to change it. If
you accountant was pocketing 51% of your income
you would be appalled. The casino does it and people
tell themselves they will get ahead eventually. Insanity.
Did I miss all of the signs in the casino that say, "If you play long enough, you will get ahead eventually?"
In a way, I feel sorry for those gambling addicts who play negative expectation games, but in another way, they're not behaving in a manner that is too terribly intelligent to begin with. Anyone, even capable of the most infinitesimal degree of logical deductive reasoning might ask, "If I am supposed to win this game, then every player must be supposed to win this game, but if every player wins eventually, how could the casino stay open?"
Eureka!
Not the casino in Mesquite. My point is that, anyone who is not an AP who truly believes he/she will win in the long run is delusional, and I don't know that it is the casino's job to act as psychiatrists and try to diagnose people with delusional disorder or anything else along those lines.
I've known people capable of the reasoning to arrive at the same conclusion, anyone more intelligent than a potted cactus could, but they're delusional. Some of them also want to lose, the downward spiral is the thrill for some people, apparently.
Quote: EvenBobExactly! Of course that's why they go. Saying its
entertainment is like saying you buy Playboy for
the articles. If the pics weren't there, they wouldn't
sell a single copy. Losers are the ones who call
gambling 'entertainment'.
Haven't there been Playboys in braille?
Quote: Mission146
Eureka!
Fat Choy at Eureka in LV is one of the best Chinese places I've been to, no lie. The duck rice is perfect in every which way and if it weren't for the location which looks the area cops usually wait a little bit longer to get to when they get a homicide call it would be where I would play for food comps.
Frank Lefty Rosenthal
There's also the factor that I would feel like a lazy fool knowing I can beat certain games a certain way but I'm simply just not doing it for "fun".
Quote: Mission146Did I miss all of the signs in the casino that say, "If you play long enough, you will get ahead eventually?"
.
Don't know, did you miss the sign that says "If
play long enough you will get so far behind
you'll never catch up." There are no such signs,
that's part of the misdirection.
Casinos are what they are, predatory places that
prey on the uninformed. If you want me to shut
up about this, quit trying to tell me they're something
they aren't. Or to put it more colorfully, don't pee
in my ear and tell me it's raining.
Quote: Lemieux66I can only see this casino "entertainment" business only being true if you have globs of money and you play small stakes. You have to never ever be in a spot where the money matters to you(such as rent and bill money). Even so, I can find more entertaining things to do than deal with pressing a slot button or blindly throwing cash down in blackjack. If there were no STDs, I would rather have a hundred dollar hooker than lose a hundred at the casino!
There's also the factor that I would feel like a lazy fool knowing I can beat certain games a certain way but I'm simply just not doing it for "fun".
Ok lets use the hooker theory here.
every week you pay a hooker for service. it's your entertainment for the week. Not all the time you visit a hooker you will feel satisfied, in fact you must encounter times when you say to yourself, "Hmm, she was better last week but not so good this week" Do you change hookers or keep going and playing that same hooker in hopes for a better week next time?
God, this sounds so bad for theory.
Quote: CrapsGeniousOk lets use the hooker theory here.
every week you pay a hooker for service. it's your entertainment for the week. Not all the time you visit a hooker you will feel satisfied, in fact you must encounter times when you say to yourself, "Hmm, she was better last week but not so good this week" Do you change hookers or keep going and playing that same hooker in hopes for a better week next time?
God, this sounds so bad for theory.
Lol switch hookers. I demand the most value I can for the dollar!
Quote: Lemieux66I can only see this casino "entertainment" business only being true if you have globs of money and you play small stakes. You have to never ever be in a spot where the money matters to you(such as rent and bill money). Even so, I can find more entertaining things to do than deal with pressing a slot button or blindly throwing cash down in blackjack. If there were no STDs, I would rather have a hundred dollar hooker than lose a hundred at the casino!
There's also the factor that I would feel like a lazy fool knowing I can beat certain games a certain way but I'm simply just not doing it for "fun".
It's true that some people gamble away their rent money, but it's also true that some people spend their rent money on going out to bars and clubs, or on a big TV that they can't afford, or on just about any other form of entertainment that you can think of. I don't see how gambling is any different from any of these things.
If I go to Hawaii and stay in a nice hotel and lie on a beach all day and eat gourmet food and go out drinking in the bars all night for a week I'm going to spend several thousand dollars. If I go to Vegas and gamble for fairly high stakes, my expected loss might also be several thousand dollars, but I'll get the nice hotel room and use of the pool and the gourmet food and booze included in the price. So, the Vegas vacation costs me the same amount as the Hawaii vacation. At this point, it's just about choosing the one that I enjoy more. If you enjoy the gambling part of it, the Vegas vacation is way ahead.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIt's true that some people gamble away their rent money, but it's also true that some people spend their rent money on going out to bars and clubs, or on a big TV that they can't afford, or on just about any other form of entertainment that you can think of. I don't see how gambling is any different from any of these things.
If I go to Hawaii and stay in a nice hotel and lie on a beach all day and eat gourmet food and go out drinking in the bars all night for a week I'm going to spend several thousand dollars. If I go to Vegas and gamble for fairly high stakes, my expected loss might also be several thousand dollars, but I'll get the nice hotel room and use of the pool and the gourmet food and booze included in the price. So, the Vegas vacation costs me the same amount as the Hawaii vacation. At this point, it's just about choosing the one that I enjoy more. If you enjoy the gambling part of it, the Vegas vacation is way ahead.
But why not learn to count blackjack or learn to play poker well. I feel an emotional satisfaction knowing I'm going to the casino with an expectation to win. If I was confident I would lose, you would never see me in a casino again. But hey, what people find fun varies.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAt this point, it's just about choosing the one that I enjoy more. If you enjoy the gambling part of it, the Vegas vacation is way ahead.
You understand the system, the majority
of players don't. The point is, the vast majority of
players do NOT find losing entertaining. They don't
enjoy the plane ride home after losing $5K, when
they had so many hopes of winning. I don't know
any sane person that says yeah, I lost $5K but gee,
I sure had fun. Can't wait to go back. That person
has serious issues.
Quote: Lemieux66But why not learn to count blackjack or learn to play poker well. I feel an emotional satisfaction knowing I'm going to the casino with an expectation to win. If I was confident I would lose, you would never see me in a casino again. But hey, what people find fun varies.
I don't gamble like this any more. But I used to, because I enjoyed it, and the losses were reasonable for my vacation/entertainment budget.
In other words, my average Vegas vacation was no more expensive than my average non-Vegas vacation.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI don't gamble like this any more. But I used to, because I enjoyed it, and the losses were reasonable for my vacation/entertainment budget.
In other words, my average Vegas vacation was no more expensive than my average non-Vegas vacation.
As long as you were happy doing this, it's ok for you. But it would throw me in a DEEP state of depression to lose that much just randomly betting blindly.
Quote: EvenBobYou understand the system, the majority
of players don't. The point is, the vast majority of
players do NOT find losing entertaining. They don't
enjoy the plane ride home after losing $5K, when
they had so many hopes of winning. I don't know
any sane person that says yeah, I lost $5K but gee,
I sure had fun. Can't wait to go back. That person
has serious issues.
I have not had that feeling with $5K, but I did have that feeling with $1K when it used to be my trip bankroll (before I knew how to count cards). On one trip I lost the entire $1000 and had a blast.
Quote: tongniGambling can be a lot of fun. It can have a similar affect on the brain as some street drugs. If you have disposable income and enjoy gambling, why not? Whether my bankroll is a hundred dollars or a million dollars, I can get the same thrill by betting a proportional amount of my bankroll. That's a great feeling, to look over at the billionaire wagering $200k a hand and to know that it's much more exciting for me because I just doubled down with the last of the rent money. If it weren't for the lows, you couldn't have the highs.
Losing can be winning too, ex:
My theoretical loss was $100 on my video poker machine, but I only lost $50 and I got a free room, and we were going to stay at the hotel which cost $70 anyways, so I actually profited. In that case I'd feel pretty good that I "beat the odds".
There's a lot of scorn, especially among low level casino grinders, for casual gamblers who take way the worst of it. Just remember, without those people, whatever you do would probably be a lot harder, and that many of those people can afford to spend on one night's recreation what you might hope to earn in a month or more. Who's the fool now?
The person who plays with the rent money? In my opinion, of course.
Quote: EvenBob
Casinos are what they are, predatory places that
prey on the uninformed. If you want me to shut
up about this, quit trying to tell me they're something
they aren't. Or to put it more colorfully, don't pee
in my ear and tell me it's raining.
I only fault casinos for not barring people in the most obvious of cases, like the guy who goes to the cage and has four or five different credit cards decline a cash advance, but there he is with his paycheck the following week before a single credit card bill actually gets paid. Okay, I'm willing to grant that is predatory, I wish that casino would say, "I'm sorry, we're not going to accept your action anymore," but it's that guy's own fault, as well.
I don't think he's uninformed, though. The guy had to get to the point where his cards were all maxed out and/or not paid in the first place, and are therefore declining, so I think he is plenty informed that he is destined to lose...he's sure as Hell done it enough times to know!
Quote: EvenBobYou understand the system, the majority
of players don't. The point is, the vast majority of
players do NOT find losing entertaining. They don't
enjoy the plane ride home after losing $5K, when
they had so many hopes of winning. I don't know
any sane person that says yeah, I lost $5K but gee,
I sure had fun. Can't wait to go back. That person
has serious issues.
Don't agree my friend... This weekend I had a choice.... Maui or Vegas... Vegas won. After I win my 50% of my bank roll im done. Or, after I lose 30% of my bankroll im done. I sure will enjoy the 2 bdrm suite, SW steakhouse, Delmonicos, front row where Britney Spears sweats on me, golfing at Shadow Creek and Cascata, all comped... Yup this weekend, VEGAS! Im blessed. +1
Quote: Lemieux66As long as you were happy doing this, it's ok for you. But it would throw me in a DEEP state of depression to lose that much just randomly betting blindly.
Fair enough. But would you also be depressed if you went to Hawaii and spent that much money on hotel + food + drinks? Again, I view them as similar. I never went Vegas JUST to gamble. I went to Vegas to gamble and hang out at the pool and flirt with the girls and go to the clubs and the parties and the shows and the restaurants. It was a real vacation. I enjoyed gambling but I enjoyed everything else too.
And, to be honest, I always stuck to low-house-edge games. I was not ultra-cheap about it but I did game the system a little bit. Despite being rated fairly well and getting free rooms and food and concert tickets and tickets to VIP parties and everything else, my average loss for a trip was still under $1000 (of course there were wild swings, but that was the average). I consider that a very cheap vacation. I expected the wild swings so they never really affected me. If I had a trip where I was way ahead or way behind, it didn't really affect my emotions. If I had fun, I had fun -- that was it.
Quote: mdsfront row where Britney Spears sweats on me
I hope you brought antibacterial wipes.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceFair enough. But would you also be depressed if you went to Hawaii and spent that much money on hotel + food + drinks? Again, I view them as similar. I never went Vegas JUST to gamble. I went to Vegas to gamble and hang out at the pool and flirt with the girls and go to the clubs and the parties and the shows and the restaurants. It was a real vacation. I enjoyed gambling but I enjoyed everything else too.
And, to be honest, I always stuck to low-house-edge games. I was not ultra-cheap about it but I did game the system a little bit. Despite being rated fairly well and getting free rooms and food and concert tickets and tickets to VIP parties and everything else, my average loss for a trip was still under $1000 (of course there were wild swings, but that was the average). I consider that a very cheap vacation. I expected the wild swings so they never really affected me. If I had a trip where I was way ahead or way behind, it didn't really affect my emotions. If I had fun, I had fun -- that was it.
I would be ok if I spent that in Hawaii. It's because I know I'm spending that. I do respect that you gamed the system though. With all that stuff you might have come out ahead if you place a cash value on them.
Your standards seem higher protecting your money than your life. If you're going to pay, don't go with a low cost woman and switching around is almost ensuring you'll find one addicted to heroin loaded with disease eventually.Quote: Lemieux66Lol switch hookers. I demand the most value I can for the dollar!
Now on the other hand some of you are talking about the person wasting money when they think they are going to win. That is an entirely different conversation. I thought we were talking about entertainment but people who play their rent money are usually just trying to get their rent money back plus money for utilities.
There are many different types of gamblers. I don't care what Bob thinks or says. Most people know they can't win in the long run.("the house always wins" is on the minds of everyone)
When you asks strangers or friends questions about gambling goals. Of course they are going to tell you, they want to be ahead and stay ahead(who asks ploppies that anyways?). What are they going to say, our goal is to be long term losers and degenerate gamblers?
People are not going to sit and tell you the truth no matter what it is, even if its dealing with non gambling finances. If they are big losers they will probably tell you they lose or win a little. If they win big they will probably tell you they do okay. This may all come down to personality. You have people like Bob dancer, who practically tell you everything and you then have others who never utter a single word how well or not so well they do. I'm sorry your experiments say nothing about how people really feel about gambling. Bob your bitterness and personal experience with casinos and life in general I think are making you hear/repeat only what you want to hear/repeat.
I know people that gamble everyday(lots of local female bartenders) $20/$40/$60 loss limits or wins but, they know they will lose at the end of the year. But, they have fun, some days they win and, leave happy, and some days they have fun, and leave losing, and not so happy. In both cases they had fun.
Some people hit it big in Vegas and never give it all back.
Some people lose everything.
Gambling has a lot in common with drinking. The advertising is filled with fun and happiness. For some people that's true. For others its a nightmare.
Quote: onenickelmiracleYour standards seem higher protecting your money than your life. If you're going to pay, don't go with a low cost woman and switching around is almost ensuring you'll find one addicted to heroin loaded with disease eventually.
I originally said if STDs don't exist. I would never get a hooker in real life.
Quote: GWAEThis is a stupid debate. Some people like to play a nice golf course and blow $300. Some people like to buy the super fast RC cars and spend $300. Some people like to go the opera and spend $300. I personally think all of those things would be a waste of time and money. Everyone's definition of entertainment is different.
Now on the other hand some of you are talking about the person wasting money when they think they are going to win. That is an entirely different conversation. I thought we were talking about entertainment but people who play their rent money are usually just trying to get their rent money back plus money for utilities.
I agree it's dumb. I regret contributing.
Quote: Mission146I hope you brought antibacterial wipes.
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! Google those three words if you've never seen it.
Quote: Mission146No, it's not. Casinos will comp you drinks for playing, in some areas, beers are still $8+ at the football game...not to mention being warm.
Had this same argument with brother-in-law many, many years ago. Was making $108 a week. Would take $20 on Saturdays and go to track. $2 to get in, $2 for a form 8 races at $2. Usually summer months at Pimlico and Timonium. He was always ragging on me about it. Till I had him total season tickets for Colts, parking, hot dogs, etc. And he admitted we both spent about the same.
Then I asked him how many times he came home from Colts games a winner !
Quote: AxelWolfGambling has a lot in common with drinking. The advertising is filled with fun and happiness. For some people that's true. For others its a nightmare.
Wow, I find this statement enlightening. Good analogy.
A GAMBLER does not know his odds, does not know proper strategy, his theoretical, etc. He's there to TRY to win money, but as we all know, every game has a house edge, and to the player that doesn't know how to beat the house (AP), he WILL lose money. No, there is no "chance" in gambling. He will NOT win, plain and simple.
On top of that, the casino/gaming industry is promoting this kind of "it's not gambling, it's entertainment" idea that many get stuck into their head. Let's not kid ourselves, players are given free drinks so they'll get inebriated and throw their money away. Players are given free-stuff because the casino knows what they are getting in return is nowhere near what the player actually lost. Remember, a 9/6 JoB game might have a 99.54% return, or a good BJ game has a HE of 0.5%, but I can GUARANTEE you 99%+ of the people playing are playing NOWHERE NEAR that level of return.
This isn't to say I don't like ploppies -- after all, how would I make $$ if it weren't for these plops?
Quote: djatcPeople go to casinos for entertainment? This is news to me. I thought they all go to win some money.
On a recent poll that's what 70% said. Another 29.9% were lying to themselves.
