Electrical or furnace question

Ok. I have shared my views on questions asked in the medical field.....so for those that can please indulge me a question on a topic I am not an expert in it would be appreciated.

The question ahead of time:
should I call an electrician or a Furnace person

1-I have a 10 year old furnace in my sparks home that was new with the house. It was making noises but heated well. I had someone look at it and was told to let it go because it would almost be worth to get a new one rather than rebuild the part that needed fixing. He said the furnace could last a few years if I am lucky.

2- recently the furnace goes off.....and i need to flip the breaker system to get it to go on. I do not actually see a breaker switch flipped....but when i flip it off and on the furnace returns to working


it has happened 3 times in 3 weeks


sooooooo....who do I call...an electrician or a furnace person?

the worse thing is that the electrical box is outside...with a small padlock..so who really wants to go flip the breakers if it should hapoen at 3 am

Furnace guy. flipping the breaker is most likely resetting the ignitor.

Short answer: furnace person. Someone specializing in furnaces is also familiar with the electrical components and how they interact with the other physical components. An electrician's field of expertise encompasses a hell of a lot more technology. An electrician might be able to figure out the problem based on general knowledge of furnace operations, but a furnace person is FAR more likely to have a needed furnace repair part in his truck.

Your problem sounds like a sticking relay that is released when power is removed. Could also be a transformer with a bad winding, or a bad spot on blower motor commutator. Warning: I am not a professional furnace person.

The only moving parts in a furnace is the blower. Easy
to fix if its making noise.

Whoever works the problem may wind up "Easter egging" a solution. That is, replacing a part to see if that affects the problem. If that's the case ask to keep the supposedly "bad" part. If the guess was wrong you probably can't return the part for credit, but you can keep it as a paid-for spare.

I had a similar problem where the furnace would fail to start once in a while. Rather than flipping the breaker I could push the reset button on the relay box and it would work again. For a while, with the failures coming with increasing frequency. I paid for several relay box and transformer replacements over a couple of years with each replacement seeming to fix the problem, but with the problem happening again after several months. In the end, one guy figured out it was bad spots on the blower commutator causing the problem. If the blower stopped with brushes on the bad spot the furnace would not start and the relay would trip. That action would also eventually cause the transformer to fail as well.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

I had a similar problem where the furnace would fail to start once in a while. Rather than flipping the breaker I could push the reset button on the relay box and it would work again.

Thanks for the diagnosis,

We have a similar problem and also push the reset button. The furnace guys did the annual maintenance and did not detect a problem.

The annoyance is that the furnace goes off in the middle of the night and the house gets cold.

But for the OP it may allow him to avoid making trips outside.

I also had a similar problem with a furnace about 5 years ago. Pushing the reset buttton on the unit itself would always restart it. But as the OP mentioned sometimes it would happen at night and this house gets real cold by morning. It turned out to be a bad control board which I had a furnace guy replace, it's worked fine since. Keep in mind I do service calls on vending machines all the time...but it's a gas furnace...I don't mess with gas appliances if I can help it.

Having said that...two things concern me diagnostically about the OP that should be checked out. First...the loud noise is almost certainly the blower/fan motor...and it may well run for a couple of more years before giving up the ghost entirely. Second...if the issue with the blower motor is a short or overload of some kind, that may be what is causing the whole unit to shut down and need to be reset...I'd say it's likely. So if you could find a company to repair/replace the blower motor you might solve two issues at the same time...the reset problem and the rattling noise issue. Ask about rebuilt parts. A rebuilt motor may cost half or less of a new one and probably will run just as long.

Good Luck....ahhh the joys of home ownership.

Quote: LarryS

Ok. I have shared my views on questions asked in the medical field.....so for those that can please indulge me a question on a topic I am not an expert in it would be appreciated.

The question ahead of time:
should I call an electrician or a Furnace person

1-I have a 10 year old furnace in my sparks home that was new with the house. It was making noises but heated well. I had someone look at it and was told to let it go because it would almost be worth to get a new one rather than rebuild the part that needed fixing. He said the furnace could last a few years if I am lucky.

2- recently the furnace goes off.....and i need to flip the breaker system to get it to go on. I do not actually see a breaker switch flipped....but when i flip it off and on the furnace returns to working


it has happened 3 times in 3 weeks


sooooooo....who do I call...an electrician or a furnace person?

the worse thing is that the electrical box is outside...with a small padlock..so who really wants to go flip the breakers if it should hapoen at 3 am

What type of furnace is it? gas, electric, oil

Hey vendman, do people still use slugs? In the 50's for about a year my dad worked for ABC vending. They had soda machines in all the movies. I would go with him on Saturdays. Would watch 15 minutes of a movie, then he would give me the slugs to put in the candy machines. Felt sorry for candy machine guy. I mean how many soda's could he drink ?

Quote: vendman1

I also had a similar problem with a furnace about 5 years ago. Pushing the reset buttton on the unit itself would always restart it. But as the OP mentioned sometimes it would happen at night and this house gets real cold by morning. It turned out to be a bad control board which I had a furnace guy replace, it's worked fine since. Keep in mind I do service calls on vending machines all the time...but it's a gas furnace...I don't mess with gas appliances if I can help it.

Having said that...two things concern me diagnostically about the OP that should be checked out. First...the loud noise is almost certainly the blower/fan motor...and it may well run for a couple of more years before giving up the ghost entirely. Second...if the issue with the blower motor is a short or overload of some kind, that may be what is causing the whole unit to shut down and need to be reset...I'd say it's likely. So if you could find a company to repair/replace the blower motor you might solve two issues at the same time...the reset problem and the rattling noise issue. Ask about rebuilt parts. A rebuilt motor may cost half or less of a new one and probably will run just as long.

Good Luck....ahhh the joys of home ownership.

I didnt mention it was a rattleing noise, because I couldnt figure out how to describe it...BUT....thats it.. A good description

thanks to everyone..I am at least armed with some info so I can show I have some cursory knowledge to the furnace guy...and it may save me a few bucks in the end.

I guess a follow up would be...can this kind of thing be specifically diagosed. Or could I exepect a trial and error sort of approach where a part is replaced and it doesnt solve the problem...so then he goes to the next best guess?

WWJPD……or WWFMD?

Quote: LarryS

I guess a follow up would be...can this kind of thing be specifically diagosed. Or could I exepect a trial and error sort of approach where a part is replaced and it doesnt solve the problem...so then he goes to the next best guess?

Some of these furnances will actually flash a light when they go down... the code tells them where to start looking...say its flashing 4-3 they look at the sticker on the furnace and well 4-3 relates to the ignitor which is usually the problem...its a 1 wire piece that senses the flame is there and will keep the gas valve in the open position ..these need cleaning regularly (THATS what the service calls do) or like in my moms case this winter need replacing because the metal coating on them gets cleaned away after so many cleanings that it no longer senses the flame is there and shuts the gas off.... if its this its a cheap fix under $200 even on Christmas eve (well it was for me since my buddy boys own a furnace company ) if its the mother board in there well that gets expensive think a few years ago that was $700 replacement

OH and by the way you know you need to change the filters once in a while for these things right? You would be amazed at some of the pics i got to see of some service calls they do

Quote: coilman

Some of these furnances will actually flash a light when they go down... the code tells them where to start looking...say its flashing 4-3 they look at the sticker on the furnace and well 4-3 relates to the ignitor which is usually the problem...its a 1 wire piece that senses the flame is there and will keep the gas valve in the open position ..these need cleaning regularly (THATS what the service calls do) or like in my moms case this winter need replacing because the metal coating on them gets cleaned away after so many cleanings that it no longer senses the flame is there and shuts the gas off.... if its this its a cheap fix under $200 even on Christmas eve (well it was for me since my buddy boys own a furnace company ) if its the mother board in there well that gets expensive think a few years ago that was $700 replacement

OH and by the way you know you need to change the filters once in a while for these things right? You would be amazed at some of the pics i got to see of some service calls they do

Thanks for the info...yes I change the filter, its 10 years old...not sure if it shows a code,

we will see.

thanks again

Larry, I am an Hvac Tech. Is this is a gas furnace? Does it have a glow igniter? And does it have inshot burners? If so Coilman has diagnosed the most likely problem. The flame sensing rod is dirty. Look in front of the burner furthest away from the igniter and locate the flame sensor, It will have one wire connected to it. It's usually held in place with a 1/4 inch screw. Unplug the furnace, remove the sensor and clean the rod with steel wool and replace. This is very common and needs to be cleaned annually. Turning the breaker off and on resets the board.

Just a guess, but LarryS's furnace might be a heat pump. In Sparks having a heat pump would be more likely that a gas or oil furnace.

Quote: 10DollarBri

Larry, I am an Hvac Tech. Is this is a gas furnace? Does it have a glow igniter? And does it have inshot burners? If so Coilman has diagnosed the most likely problem. The flame sensing rod is dirty. Look in front of the burner furthest away from the igniter and locate the flame sensor, It will have one wire connected to it. It's usually held in place with a 1/4 inch screw. Unplug the furnace, remove the sensor and clean the rod with steel wool and replace. This is very common and needs to be cleaned annually. Turning the breaker off and on resets the board.

Thanks for the info. Its a gas furnace. However because of snow..i wont be going this weekend. I really cant answer any of those questions, although most other weeks I would be going there tonight.

I will definately follow those directions if they apply.

How about looking inside panel, getting the make and model, and google it ? Quite often the manufacturer will have a website complete with trouble shooting guide, as well as showing what the flashing sequence of lights indicates.

delete

Quote: Buzzard

Hey vendman, do people still use slugs? In the 50's for about a year my dad worked for ABC vending. They had soda machines in all the movies. I would go with him on Saturdays. Would watch 15 minutes of a movie, then he would give me the slugs to put in the candy machines. Felt sorry for candy machine guy. I mean how many soda's could he drink ?

The short answer is no Buzz. Up until the mid or late 70's the coin sensing equipment was mechanical in nature. In essentially just looked for a round metal thing of a certain size. So a slug had a chance of working. Pretty much any machine made since then uses computer controlled optical sensor(s) that won't be so easily fooled. The technology is pretty impressive now. No more free candy Buzz. Sorry.