1/10 of Your Bankroll and 10x Your Bankroll

CLIFF NOTES:

If you had only 1/10 of your normal Las Vegas bankroll to play with, would you still have a good time? How would your gambling, activities, etc. be impacted? On the flip side, if you had 10x your normal bankroll to blow in Las Vegas, would you have 10x more fun? How would your gambling, activities, etc. be impacted?


LONG VERSION:

This evening my wife asked me if I would still have as much fun in Las Vegas if I had 1/10 of my normal bankroll. When I go to Las Vegas, I usually open a line of credit for between $25,000 to $50,000 at my main resort/casino, so for this post I will go with the concept that I would only be able to bring $2,500 in cash with me.

Wow! This is much tougher then I thought! First of all, I would not get any of the comps that I am used to getting, so all of my rooms, food, entertainment would have to be paid for out of the $2,500. I would have to factor in my gambling in that budget also, which means either significantly shorter amounts of time at the table, or much lower average bets.

My guess is that I would probably end up not gambling at all(!?!?!?) on this fictional trip, and instead use the money to get a nice room, eat at nice resturants and see a couple of shows. I would also spend more time checking out the other casinos and seeing the sights that I might not normally see if I were gambling 8 to 10 hours a day.

On the flip side, I also asked myself what I would do differently if I brought up 10x my normal bankroll. At first, going into Las Vegas with a $250,000 line of credit sounded both fantastic and very exciting, but at a closer glance I am not too sure if I would have 10x as much fun with the extra cash. In terms of comps, you can only sleep in one bed at a time, eat so many high calorie meals, drink so much booze and see so many shows. Yes, the extra money would mean an almost unlimited about of time that I could spend at the tables, but does that mean 10x more fun?

I was curious what other people thought about this. Can you have a good time in Las Vegas with 1/10 of your bankroll and would having 10x the cash mean 10x the fun for you?

In your world, probably $2500 is relatively meaningless. There is a point for most people when the gambling seems pointless because the amounts are too small.

But the quarter million dollars would mean that you are trying to earn serious money on your trip. You've sort of transformed the purpose of the game. It is not ten times as much fun because you've changed your intention.

Let me transform the question a little. Hypothetically you have a three day trip. You have your standard $25,000 to $50,000 budget.

(a) You check into your comped room at the Bellagio and play 6 hours a days for three days. You get comped 2 shows, and some good meals (worth $1K-$2K). Craps odds are limited to 3X-4X-5X.

(b) You go from the airport to the Main Street Casino in downtown. You proceed to max out the craps table with pass line and come bets playing full 20X odds (maximum $2000 one 4,5,9,10 and $2500 on 6 and 8). You are not comped your free odds, but it is still sufficient to get a free room (which would be less than $100 anyway, and prime rib and beer in the brew pub). Then you check out late in the second day, buy a room at Bellagio for two days, and don't gamble at all but pay for your own meal at Picasso's and the shows.

Which option do you choose? The good treatment for the whole three days or the good odds at a casino where you may be the highest roller in the room, followed by some non-gaming fun at your own expense.

Quote: pacomartin

Which option do you choose? The good treatment for the whole three days or the good odds at a casino where you may be the highest roller in the room, followed by some non-gaming fun at your own expense.

The more probable choice would probably be: One Day of gambling at 10x at Main Street Station followed by two days at the more desired Bellagio but utilizing any profits from MSS as a bankroll at the Bellagio in an effort to get at least something comped.

Quote: gambler

CLIFF NOTES:

If you had only 1/10 of your normal Las Vegas bankroll to play with, would you still have a good time? How would your gambling, activities, etc. be impacted? On the flip side, if you had 10x your normal bankroll to blow in Las Vegas, would you have 10x more fun? How would your gambling, activities, etc. be impacted?

I was curious what other people thought about this. Can you have a good time in Las Vegas with 1/10 of your bankroll and would having 10x the cash mean 10x the fun for you?

I think it really depends on your philosophy - I view gambling as entertainment and fun, and if I happen to make any money along the way, it is an added bonus. Certainly 10x the normal cash would allow me to accrue more comps than I'm used to, but in the end, I'm there just to have a good time. If I only had 1/10 the money, I'd adjust what I'm playing, and most likely that would mean playing the 9 reel penny slots at .09 cents at a time. ;)

I may be different than most, but when I go out to Vegas, I have a set gambling bankroll, that is separate from my trip expenditures. That way, I can still enjoy the shows/food without having to worry about being low on cash for the tables.

-B

I think I may be in a position to give a take on this because of my upcomming trip.

When I go to the local casino I usually have a bankroll of $500 to $1,000- I usually do enoguh at the tables to earn me a comped meal in one of the better restraunts. Thats it,m a little gaming and somethign to eat. The money usually lasts me about 6 hours. Cause I recall going in at 7am and leaving arond 2pm. Ive had my fun, lost some money, im good.

Come August Ill be taking a trip to Vegas- and my total budget will be around the $4,500 mark. or- almost 5x what Id go to the local casino with. How does the fun and excitement change?

1) trip/vacation to vegas instead of the locals

2) hotel room for 4 nights @ a good strip casino intead of no overnight stay and just driving

3) take in a show or two, walk around and sight see the strip

4) pure gambling budget of $3,000 instead of $500 means I may be willing to do 20-50 per bet instead of 10-25. Biger risk/bigger reward

5) little extras to feel good. limo ride, suite room, good high-profile dinner one night.

6) a chance to get more comped then just one meal.

so-yes; on a compairison of $500 vs $5,000 there is a HUGE diffrence in attitude, experiance, and expectations as well as percieved enjoyment. BTW; on the odverse to go from $500 to $50 makes it not even worth the gas for the trip, lol.

We do things to our comfort limits, to what we perceive as our place. If I had 10x my gambling budget, I'd put 90% of it in the bank and play my usual limits! If I had 1/10 the budget, I would consider that I didn't have enough spare cash to play, and I'd stay home.

Good question. IMO, it is the limit that we place on ourselves that determines where we decide to stop wanting more, that determines when we stop making more money per year in our jobs, that determines when we are happy. I know that is true for me. I believe that is why lottery winners invariably sink back down to the level they were at before they won.

Quote: Malaru

... a chance to get more comped then just one meal.

The Seminoles have a monopoly and do not comp well at all.
In Vegas, you should have a good chance at a free room and should certainly be eating for free, but paying for that limousine.

I agree: its a huge difference. Some of the dealers in the Indian casinos spent years in Tunica or Atlantic City but I never think of the Indian joint as a "real" casino.

I actually would prefer the smaller bankroll. When I go to Vegas, I tend to overbet my bankroll, usually on high-limit positive video poker plays. If I had a smaller bankroll, I'd stick to the low limit games and probably have more fun.

Haha, I'm going to Vegas for 4 nights starting Friday with 1/100th of your bankroll.

I'm bringing $500 for gambling, $350 for other expenses (food, etc... Not counting hotel, car rental)

I'm going to have a heck of a time.

Now, if I had 1/10th of that bankroll, I'm not thinking I would have much fun at all. But $50 is a pretty bad example. However, if I had 10x it, I would have more fun, but definitely not 10x more fun. But I can gamble anytime I want in St. Louis, I go to Vegas for all the stuff that I can do there, that I don't get here. (Free drinks, sports bet)

just curious gambler. what kind of room do they comp you?

Currently, I tend to stay in upper-middle level casinos like the Green Valley Ranch and the Mandalay Bay. Because I am a craps player and GRV rates the odds bet, I normally get a suite and RFB (room, food, beverage) for two. At the Mandalay Bay, they do not rate the odds bet at all, so I normally get a standard room at the Hotel (which is over 700 sq ft and very nice) as well as RFB for two..

I have not stayed at the top end casinos like the Venetian, Wynn, Encore, etc. and would not know how I would be rated there. Personally, a nice standard room is great for me. I would much rather save my comp dollars for hard comps like airfare reinversement, show tickets off property, and nice resturants.

Quote: pacomartin

You go from the airport to the Main Street Casino in downtown. You proceed to max out the craps table with pass line and come bets playing full 20X odds (maximum $2000 one 4,5,9,10 and $2500 on 6 and 8). You are not comped your free odds, but it is still sufficient to get a free room (which would be less than $100 anyway, and prime rib and beer in the brew pub). Then you check out late in the second day, buy a room at Bellagio for two days, and don't gamble at all but pay for your own meal at Picasso's and the shows.

Now this is one of the most interesting suggestions that I have heard, pacomartin. And one that I would consider strongly. I did stay at the Main Street Station once about 10 years ago for a friend's wedding, and found it to be clean and the staff friendly. I would be curious to hear from others how well Boyd Gaming has maintained the property. Personally, I have found that a lot of the downtown casinos have gone downhill in recent years and many have not done any renovations recently.

I know my wife would be happy with staying at the Wynn, Venetian, or Bellagio. If I follow your suggestion, I would probably go to Vegas ahead of her, gamble like a mad man at the Main Street Station for a few days, and then book a room at a nicer resort for us to enjoy (and for me to recover).

My normal gambling bankroll is about $500 per session. If my session was reduced to $50 I could not play my table games so I would stick myself on a $.05 10 play Pick-Em machine or my favorite Deuces Wild multi-strike machine at the nickel denomination and hope for 4 deuces to hit for $50, $100, $200 or $400 dollars. But at most that would last for an hour, and if I were to hit one of those machine for anything more than $100 I'd cash out and hit the $10 blackjack table or $5 craps table 'till I was broke.

Before I tell you what I'd do with 10%/10x (or 50%/2x), you gotta know a little more about my normal habits.


I live in Northern NJ, and go to AC a few times a year without the wife. She typically gives me $800 for the trip. I usually stay somewhere cheap, but paid by credit card. Sometimes I sleep in my car.

When we go together, she still gives me $800, but has her own money (and ATM cards), and she earns us free rooms.

At any rate, whatever I start playing, if I start off loosing, I only have to be down about $50 before I start to tighten up. It's rare that I lose more than $400 on a trip. Last fall, when I came to Vegas for 5 days for a convention, she gave me $1,000. But that included all of my incedentals. Again, only the hotel was on a credit card. I never got lower than $500, and came home with over $700.



This past spring I took an AC trip, and she didn't have $800, so she gave me $400 and an ATM card and PIN. She said to play with the $400, and use the ATM card if I needed to get my money back. Because I was working with only $400 plus free pass to go to the well, I played stupid and lost the full $400. I then got the other $400 and proceeded to lose that too. I'm certain that if I started with $800, things would have been a lot different.

OK, that wasn't a 10% bankroll, but it gives you an idea of what would have happened.


If she gave me $8,000? Or even something more reasonable, like $2,000? I know exactly what I'd do. Craps. I'd wait for a point, then spread $650 on all six numbers ($105, $100, $120). As soon as any number hits, regress to $130. ($21, $20, $25). Then start pressing them in $5/$6 units.



For what it's worth, even spreading $130 is too rich for me. Ditto for $650 with only a $2,000 starting bankroll.

That's one reason I keep mentioning that I'm looking for a casino that plays craps with quarters (or 25¢ chips).

I don't mind a $5 minimum. I'd spread $65 ($10.50, $10, $12), regress to $32.50 ($5.25, $5, $6) and press in $1.25/$1.50 units. Yeah, that's exacty my speed.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Before
This past spring I took an AC trip, and she didn't have $800, so she gave me $400 and an ATM card and PIN. She said to play with the $400, and use the ATM card if I needed to get my money back. Because I was working with only $400 plus free pass to go to the well, I played stupid and lost the full $400. I then got the other $400 and proceeded to lose that too. I'm certain that if I started with $800, things would have been a lot different.

It took me a while to reach the conclusion, but starting with $500, and then if that goes away, then get out another $500, is not the same as starting with $1000. I think it has to do with the fact that you play different when your buyin is almost gone. Now, you reload, and do it again, so you end up playing short twice in the session. Look at the people that come to the $5 craps table and pull out $50, or $20 ,and then $20 more, $20 more..... I bet 90% of them walk away down all of their buyins. Of course, most are playing stupid bets, so I guess that doesn't really prove my point.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

If she gave me $8,000? Or even something more reasonable, like $2,000? I know exactly what I'd do. Craps. I'd wait for a point, then spread $650 on all six numbers ($105, $100, $120). As soon as any number hits, regress to $130. ($21, $20, $25). Then start pressing them in $5/$6 units.

I fooled with this a bit on my last trip. It seems like you should be able to make money doing this. The ONLY thing that gets you is the immediate 7 out, which should be rare enough. Want to bet? Stinkin' dice must have sensors. As soon as you put that big bet down, big red appears every time. I have concluded the only way to make this work is to make the big bet AND play big red for the first roll (well, we all know to hop the seven combinations to get a lower HA). Of course that eats into the profits, so now you need the bet up there twice.....
This was discussed in another thread, and I believe the conclusion was you will get an immediate 7 out 1 out of 5 times. (It is 1 out of 5, not 6, because a 2,3,11,12 are no decisions). Raleigh's Corollary states "You will get an immediate 7 out, 1 out of every 5 points when playing across, unless you are playing a big bet across scenario, in which case, an immediate 7 out will occur 4 out of 5 times."
I cannot produce the formula that supports the corollary, but I can show you the gaping hole in my bank statement that proves the corollary to be true. WinCraps also does a nice job of showing you how many times you will get to Ruin with this idea. :-(

I never said I expect to with with that strategy. Just that's what I'd try if I had a huge bankroll [to lose].

Quote: RaleighCraps

Stinkin' dice must have sensors.

I couldn't agree more.

Wow. I'll be in Vegas this June 7-11. Hotel, travel and shows are already paid for and I plan to bring about $4,000 cash for gambling and food. I have never brought that much with me previously so I expect it to easily last me (and my wife) the entire trip.

I'm not a big gambler and will stick with VP, Craps, and some Pai Gow with low minimums if I can find 'em.

I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I had a spare $40,000...and the opposite extreme of $400 would be too small even for me.