I was raped at mile marker 164
Quote: beachbumbabs
It seems like there is a presumption of guilt on this forum.
Only with people we don't like. Without giving details,
I received an insulting PM from TTB in July that stuck
in my craw. I never answered it, came right out of
the blue. So I had an axe to grind, even tho the court
ordered me to send all my axes to Buzz.. He collects
them.
Quote: BuzzardZ's position is too mainstream today. And I am sure shared by a number of policemen. Worse yet Z thinks he is right.
I think Z is right, too.
I totally get your 4th Amendment argument Buzz, and I even agree. But this whole scenario is so much like so many others.
I can't wax poetically on this particular subject, because I'm not of the type to YouTube DWI checkpoints to put cops on the spot and show the infringment. That's not my bag. But I could fill pages, and in fact I have on this very site, of infringement on the 2nd.
There are numerous laws that have chipped and worn away at the Constitution. Was Tree's stop and subsequent search "right'? No, the Constitution says so. But was it "right"? Well, yeah... the law says so.
Blaming a cop for searching is no different than blaming a bullet for killing. Neither one works autonomously. The problem lies deeper.
But, I also disagree with the police siezing his property without any charges.
Whether or not the search was legal, I can't opine, because I wasn't there.
But when I do the person complaining usually had , drugs, large amounts of cash, paraphernalia, and or stolen items in their possession. Take our own TTB for example.
Quote: CrystalMathIt is my opinion that TTB was very lucky that he got pulled over after the drop.
But, I also disagree with the police siezing his property without any charges.
Whether or not the search was legal, I can't opine, because I wasn't there.
I don't think we know the whole story. I don't know about his situation, but I believe in some states you are written citations rather than arrested for small amounts of drugs/paraphernalia. He may have told the police he was in a rental car and had no idea any of it was in there. That would be a good reason to take the money pending an investigation.
It just doesn't add up the way he told it...
ZCore13
The OP was driving a rental car with out of state plates, with a large quantity of cash and drug paraphernalia in the trunk. He was given a warning, but opted to become argumentative with a lawman.
How much more stupid can a person be???
Quote: CrystalMathIt is my opinion that TTB was very lucky that he got pulled over after the drop.
What "drop?"
Is the guy a parachutist?
Quote: KeyserSozeThe OP was driving a rental car with out of state plates, with a large quantity of cash and drug paraphernalia in the trunk. He was given a warning, but opted to become argumentative with a lawman.
How much more stupid can a person be???
Yeah, it blows me away that someone in his situation—after being told why he was pulled over—would actually mouth off to the cop and say, "Fine, issue me a warning!".
Not the brightest bulb, I guess.
Quote: MrVIs the guy a parachutist?
Nope, a mule...
That is what one might find if a manufacturer moved the locale of his packaging site.
Quote: MrVWhat kind of drug runner (I am NOT saying he is one!) would leave baggies, a seal a meal machine and containers with a strong odor of weed in their vehicle after completing a run?
Does not compute.
He did say it was a 35k lesson, so maybe an ammature. Next time, I bet the Tupperware ends up in a Colorado land fill.
Leaving the nitial post out of the conversation, I have heard legal experts speak on this subject and its kind of like the stuff you would see in a third world country.
Its seems that the seizing of property, and the proceeds from them do not go into a state general fund. It goes to the specific police station or precint.Sothere is real incentive to seize property.
There have been cases where propery was seized and it was parlayed into conventions in Hawaii, .
in this topsy turvey set of laws....its up to YOU to prove that the property was seized incorrectly...not up to the police to prove anything.
you would think you would run into this type of rogue justice when driving the back roads of a small town in columbia.
but its alive and well in the USA.
Welcome back, tree
Quote: treetopbuddyJust waiting for DEA to bust down the front door.
Glad you're back man.
Did you get your cash and drugs back?
Quote: BuzzardI am in an American History class. And can not find "guilty until proven innocent " anywhere in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
True, but how does that relate to this thread? When someone mouths off to a cop, they shouldn't be surprised if it results in something bad happening to them.
Quote: VCUSkyhawkJust curious, how can they take your stuff without charging you? Will it be returned?
Oh, and btw a TRUE conservative is one who will stick up for your civil liberties (ie Ron Paul)
It's called Civil Asset Forfeiture and it's a blight on the legal system. Basically they take your money, say you can go, and just admit you did some bullshit and we keep the money. That's the deal, get lost. OR, if you want to get your money back since you DID NOTHING WRONG, you have to play their game and pony up for a lawyer. In the end you'll end up paying your lawyer about the same.
It's fucking bullshit. Ugh can't believe this shit goes on.
Quote: LarrySI didnt read all 37 pages, so maybe this was addressed
Leaving the nitial post out of the conversation, I have heard legal experts speak on this subject and its kind of like the stuff you would see in a third world country.
Its seems that the seizing of property, and the proceeds from them do not go into a state general fund. It goes to the specific police station or precint.Sothere is real incentive to seize property.
There have been cases where propery was seized and it was parlayed into conventions in Hawaii, .
in this topsy turvey set of laws....its up to YOU to prove that the property was seized incorrectly...not up to the police to prove anything.
you would think you would run into this type of rogue justice when driving the back roads of a small town in columbia.
but its alive and well in the USA.
Like I said, fucking embarrassing this goes on.
Weed should be legal. I'm glad I live in a state where it is now. The federal issue is a PITA, but it'll all get worked out eventually. Marijuana prohibition is just pointless at this point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cSfotUvjdk
Quote: treetopbuddySo, I'm driving westbound on I-70 at mile marker 164 in Kansas. I'm in left lane passing a truck headed down a hill. I see cop in median. Check my speed. Going the speed limit 75. Cruise control was set to 75. Pass the truck and cop. Look my rear view mirror and notice the cop has immediately pulled onto Interstate and is flying.
I myself will be in the westbound lanes of I-70 passing Mile Marker 164 in the Land of Ahhs late this evening. Headed to CO - where the dope is perfectly legal these days but I won't be imbibing - to celebrate Thanksgiving at my son's place in Denver.
My eyes will be open for the law...
https://www.aclu.org/print/drug-law-reform-immigrants-rights-racial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you
Quote: rainmanI came across this and thought it might help treetop in case he has another encounter with law enforcement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cSfotUvjdk
Being polite still cost her 15 minutes and a major hassle.
As they didn't arrest her on suspicion of anything, guess they had nothing to start with.
Quote: AcesAndEightsLike I said, fucking embarrassing this goes on.
Weed should be legal. I'm glad I live in a state where it is now. The federal issue is a PITA, but it'll all get worked out eventually. Marijuana prohibition is just pointless at this point.
A friend of mine is doing the permitting process to grow legal weed. He doesn't use and couldn't care less if he ever grows a plant. The #5 guy for Microsoft says this will be worth more money than technology in the next ten years?
The friend says go to the Wash. State liquor control board website and get the paperwork started. They are only going to permit 2 million sq. ft. of grow space and the liquor board will buy all product, he wouldn't even have to mess with sales.
The money will come within a couple years when RJ Reynolds and other conglomerates want to buy up the grow space. I saw the same thing with fishing up north. Get the space permitted in your name and you should be able to sell your permit for a big profit. The word I heard is it isn't the same personal use in Oregon but they have legal mmj. Oregon doesn't want to deal with the permitting and cost's of administrating the medical grows so Wash, might just grow it for Oregon. There will he huge money made in this going legal. Huge,if your are willing to deal with the bullshit. He who benefits best, benefits first.
Quote: AcesAndEightsIt's called Civil Asset Forfeiture and it's a blight on the legal system...It's fucking bullshit. Ugh can't believe this shit
goes on.
Think of it as a sort of "tax" on crooks and wannabe players.
Quote: MrVThink of it as a sort of "tax" on crooks and wannabe players.
Except when it happens to perfectly innocent citizens who just happen to have a bunch of cash and have committed no crime. Like, you know, a professional AP.
Having $30,000 in cash is not a crime.
Quote: AcesAndEightsExcept when it happens to perfectly innocent citizens who just happen to have a bunch of cash and have committed no crime. Like, you know, a professional AP.
Having $30,000 in cash is not a crime.
Man has undeclared $10,000 seized at border after exchange rate pushes him over limit to take from country
Adrian Humphreys | 02/04/13 8:08 PM ET
More from Adrian Humphreys | @AD_Humphreys
.
Toronto’s Pearson International Airport, where Robert Docherty of Maple Ridge, B.C. last saw his $10,000.
National Post filesToronto’s Pearson International Airport, where Robert Docherty of Maple Ridge, B.C. last saw his $10,000..
Robert Docherty of Maple Ridge, B.C., knew any amount over $10,000 must be declared at the border when taking it out of Canada, and he purposely counted and calculated the exchange rate so the $9,880 U.S. and $335 Canadian he was packing were within that limit.
By the time he was boarding his flight to Costa Rica at Toronto’s Pearson International Airport two days later, however, the value of the U.S. dollar had risen slightly, pushing his tally over the $10,000 mark.
After a currency detector dog uncovered the cash and Canada Border Services Agents checked the Bank of Canada exchange rate that day in 2010, all of it was seized as suspected proceeds of crime.
Mr. Docherty has now lost his bid to get any of the money back.
He represented himself in two levels of court without success. His complaint to the Federal Court of Canada prompted the judge to declare: “This is a case of a traveller sailing too close to the legal winds. But for greed, this applicant would not be in court.”
Mr. Docherty then turned to the Federal Court of Appeal.
He said the money was from an inheritance that he and his daughter used in their wild mushroom business, which handled transactions in cash, and he was using it to buy property abroad. He argued he wasn’t hiding the money, only purposely trying to stay below the reporting limit.
Further, he said, the government was biased toward him because he has a criminal conviction from 1993.
The government argued there are reasonable grounds to believe the money was criminal profit.
“Smuggling cash across international borders is a strong indicator that the funds are proceeds of crime,” the government argued; “$10,000 was a very high threshold; most people did not have, let alone carry, this amount.”
‘$10,000 was a very high threshold; most people did not have, let alone carry, this amount’
.
Not helping his case was the fact that Mr. Docherty had little in the way of business records to prove the origins of the cash.
“Individuals are free to arrange their affairs so as to leave the smallest possible financial footprint,” wrote Justice J.D. Denis Pelletier, on behalf of the panel of appellate judges, last week. “The disadvantage of doing so is that when a question arises as to the source of large amounts of cash found in their possession, they have very few means of establishing the legitimacy of those funds.
“In the context of the issues sought to be addressed by the act — money laundering and the financing of terrorism — the government is entitled to ask for a reasonable explanation of the source of currency in excess of the prescribed limit found on persons leaving Canada.
“In this case, Mr. Docherty’s explanations were unverifiable and, as such, amounted to no explanation at all,” the court ruled in dismissing his appeal.
Mr. Docherty could not be reached for comment.
National Post
Quote: petroglyphMan has undeclared $10,000 seized at border after exchange rate pushes him over limit to take from country
<snip>
What is your point? Currency reporting requirements for international travel are a separate, albeit related, topic to the one at hand.
I'm talking about events wholly within the border of our great nation.
Quote: treetopbuddyStill waiting for DEA to smash in front door. Any day now.
Be very careful. You are now on somebody's watch list. The3 fact that they could not nail you before may be taken as a personal insult.
Julius THE LORD Salisbury was fined $2500 for not having a federal gambling stamp. Yet, gambling was illegal, but you needed a federal stamp to be a gambler. WTF ? This was 1952. In 1970's you needed a federal stamp to possess marijuana, even though possessing marijuana was a crime.
In 1968 they raided his office, impounded 31,00 in cash in his pockets and $40,000 in a safe. But a few hours later the gambling law they raided under was declared unconstitutional. In 1969 he used somebody ( not me ) to take a few out of state checks to a drugstore on Fayette street to cash.
That allowed the Feds to arrest him on bookmaking. If the local cops had arrested him, first offense, suspended sentence or 30 days max. But Feds had a hot nut for him. 15 YEARS.
Even The Lord could not do 15 years with no hope of parole. He disappeared.
I REPEAT : BE VERY VERY CAREFUL
Quote: AcesAndEightsWhat is your point? Currency reporting requirements for international travel are a separate, albeit related, topic to the one at hand.
I'm talking about events wholly within the border of our great nation.
It was nothing personal Aces.
I thought the article segued into the thread.
There are also Canadian reader's on the board.
It would suck to go up to Canada with 10 large, play for a day, not win or lose and make a return trip to the land of the free and have them confiscate your money because the exchange rate changed overnight.
I replied to your post because I agree having cash isn't a crime. I think there are quite a few people who after studying their bank account and seeing that they are only getting .0001% on their money have put it in a mattress. I read one guy was a car dealer and was travelling with I think 17k and the same thing happened to him.
The parallel is that the onus is placed on the citizen to render a plausible explanation for whatever law enforcement asks or suffer the consequences. Most citizens seem to sense that the burden of proof is, or at least should be, on the accuser or the instrumentality leveling the allegation or actual charges. I'm not sure whether Canada codifies, as the U.S. most definitely does, the right not to have to incriminate one's self.Quote: AcesAndEightsWhat is your point? Currency reporting requirements for international travel are a separate, albeit related, topic to the one at hand. I'm talking about events wholly within the border of our great nation.
seriously how is it this guy still has a job?Quote: Ahighhttp://www.8newsnow.com/story/25379303/i-team-i-80-cash-seizures-by-police-raise-questions
10k in attorneys fees is not enough.
Im not sure how this Money Seizure law works. They should have only 48 hrs to prove you were selling drugs or whatever. If not the money should be returned and you should be able to sue for what ever damages you may of had because you had no use of YOUR money.
Quote: AcesAndEightsExcept when it happens to perfectly innocent citizens who just happen to have a bunch of cash and have committed no crime. Like, you know, a professional AP.
Having $30,000 in cash is not a crime.
It is, however, an opportunity for the cops, if they're the least bit short in ethics or in decency, or in fair play.
It's funny: a casino security guard will give you an escort for your safety; many cops will confiscate the same amount just on suspicion.
That's part of their job.Quote: PaigowdanIt is, however, an opportunity for the cops, if they're the least bit short in ethics or in decency, or in fair play.
It's funny: a casino security guard will give you an escort for your safety; many cops will confiscate the same amount just on suspicion.
I don't know of security guards are any worst or better then police officers. Cops should know better and be held to a much higher standard obviously.
Some security officers are great guys, I have known a few. Some are very bad apples. I know a couple of them have been suspected in targeting AP's at there homes and robbing them. I doubt the AP thing had anything to do with it.
Years ago I know of a few security guards that were stealing thousands of dollars in $25 tokens from a now closed casino. I was asked if I wanted to purchase them at a big discount, I declined.
Quote: EvenBobRentals are always cleaned thoroughly to avoid just this
kind of thing. You're also expected to check the thing
before you take it out.
Not sure where you rent from but this is most certainly not the case in my area.
And I'm still catching up on the thread on page 7, weeeeeeeeee
seizure
Quote: onenickelmiracleRemember two Americas? This is included in the theme John Edwards used to mention running for president. You could do things 100 times worse than structuring if you can afford the lawyers as insignificant expenses.
$100 penalty for mentioning John Edwards in a favorable light, pay the Wizard immediately j/k. [otherwise your point is well taken]
Quote: FleaStiffIts any transaction or series of transactions designed to evade reporting requirements. Buy chips in units of two five-thousand dollar transactions and the IRS can "declare" it structured to avoid one reportable 10,000 transaction.
isnt the 10000 thing in a 24 hour period so if it goes over you still have to?
Quote:For decades, police officers have used motor vehicle stops and searches, which relied on officers saying they could smell marijuana, as part of their drug interdiction efforts.
How in the hell do you argue against that? I can see using a trained dog, but a police officer saying he smelled marijuana? Even if you don't have it, they could suggest you tossed it recently.
Then they find a stash of cash instead. Ouch.
Quote:Police found no drugs, and Lara, 39, was charged with no crimes. But police nonetheless left with his money, calling a Drug Enforcement Administration agent to coordinate a process known as “adoption,” which allows federal authorities to seize cash or property they suspect is connected to criminal activity — without levying criminal charges.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/a-former-marine-was-pulled-over-for-following-a-truck-too-closely-police-took-nearly-87-000-of-his-cash/ar-AANZc30?ocid=undefined
