Poll
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33 votes (64.7%) |
51 members have voted
South PointQuote: strictlyAPwhere does he play?>
Palms
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. To me it sounds like they are so messed up that without outside help they may have never realize they were making a mistake until after people picked up their free play.Quote: renoWhich was more bothersome: that machines were being removed, or that players' cards were being confiscated?
From an objective math standpoint, this promotion was obviously an EV positive bet. But it's a judgement call to measure Revel's habit of screwing things up. Revel had such a lousy reputation among players long before this promotion was announced.
Bob made a big deal of the Revel promo on vpFREE, Videopoker.com, his column, and on his radio show. Then turned right around and consulted with Revel. This is playing too much God. Has Bob ever gotten a mailer from a casino, recognized that it was highly lucrative, then called the casino and said "If you don't disqualify your high denom machines I'm going to crush you?" I don't think so. But this is exactly what he did to other high limit AP's. Whether he was the cause or not is irrelevant. It's the attempt he made that counts. And he admittedly made the attempt. When the rumor that a high profile pro was consulting with Revel hit the Revel thread on this site, Shack immediately responded that he was not involved and reiterated his opinion that Revel management was incompetent. This left Bob standing there looking like the cat that ate the canary. I think that's the only reason he admitted to consulting with Revel. I don't think his consulting was initially intended to be made public.
One of the things I love about my lifestyle, gambling for a living, is I make money with no strings attached. I'm beholden to no one. I'm the only one who get's to make up my mind on any issue. I get to call the shots like I see them. Bob, if you are lurking this site, I'm sorry but I can't defend you on this issue. I think you were wrong.
True. Gaughan even offered to let Dancer stay as long as he wanted at the South Point when Bob was going through his divorce. Interesting relationship. (FWIW, I think Gaughan is awesome. Listen to his interview on GWAE-- It's great.)Quote: mickeycrimmBob is good friends with Michael Gaughan so outing him at South Point won't do anything.
I have utmost respect for Dancer and the work he puts into his game and educating others about the game. But there is something about his attitude and some of the stuff he does that rubs people the wrong way at times. This is certainly one of these times.
Can you think of any business where they let some outsider sit inside the door and tell the customer how you can make money off the business? Yeah, sometimes a business highlights a bargain, but I believe AP, is more akin to showing you how to use a bank without contributing any money to the banks bottom line. At least that would be the sales line.
OR, you could just consider the "outsider" can only be an "insider". This would make more sense, wouldn't it?
After all, do you guys know where you're posting? Your posting here, on the Wizard's forum.
This is NOT some place where you want to teach people how to win using your latest AP methods. Far from it.
There are several different people on this board, including the Wizard, that are linked to casino management, risk consultants, etc....
Every last one of them, will, if it's in their best interest, share whatever you choose to post on this forum. It's not that they are neccessarily being shifty, it's just that it's part of their job. It's what they do.
-Keyser
Quote: JIMMYFOCKERWhen did he go through divorce?
Bob and Shirley divorced late last year. In his May 7th column, he wrote that the marriage failed because she's very sensitive to smoke. She was unable to continue dancing, and she couldn't tolerate Bob returning from the casinos reeking.
Quote: gpac1377Bob and Shirley divorced late last year. In his May 7th column, he wrote that the marriage failed because she's very sensitive to smoke. She was unable to continue dancing, and she couldn't tolerate Bob returning from the casinos reeking.
Really? The smell of cigarette smoke breaks up the marriage? Allrightythen..
Quote: renoInteresting double standard. When Michael Shackleford was helping the Venetian make money, we all said congrats (myself included). But if Bob Dancer helps the South Point make money, he's a traitor.
Ah yes, but the Wizard and Bob Dancer are friends and occasional radio co-hosts, so how do we know the Wizard isn't in on the Revel conspiracy? Guilt by association.
The paranoia around here really stinks.
Thanks for the wallpaper. And I'm not talking for my desktop, I mean for my wizard room (aka my living room).
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe voting is overwhelming. Seems like he's picked up a few enemies.
I just got around to listening to the July 11th Gambling With An Edge where Bob admits to contacting a "friend" of his "Deep Throat" who is "friends with Revel management" and voicing his concerns about Revel getting crushed by high limit pros on the $25 video poker. Another thing Bob admitted to was he has been trying to get hired as a consultant by Revel since they opened. Bob's ratting out the high denom video poker sure looks to me like he was trying to prove his worth to them. But here is the funny part. Bob opened the show talking about reports that players were being thrown off the promotion. He suggested that those players go to the media or hire an attorney. But then he goes on to say "but little of that is happening because it is likely that the players are not telling the whole story." But then the attorney, Robert Nersessian comes on the show. If you don't know who he is then google him. He's the go to guy if you want to sue a casino in Nevada. Munchkin asked Nersessian if he had been contacted by player's from the Revel promo. Here's Nersessian's response "Absolutely. The phone has been ringing off the hook. I'm not a New Jersey lawyer but there are New Jersey lawyer's interested in the case. I will likely be a consultant to them if and when a case goes forward. Revel has some real issues here and I'm specifically referencing the Uston case."
I'm LMAO! Bob did his best to play it down but then Nersessian came on and blew him out of the water.
and everybody disagrees with me. Yet when you get
a chance to be the predators for a change and prey on
the casino, and its snatched away by somebody, you
cry and cry. Pretty funny.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI would say Revel was the predator. They laid the trap, advertised the bait, then snatched it away when the prey showed up.
They tried to be the predator but made a mistake
and were about to be pounced on by the public.
Ya'll are always sticking up for the casinos when
I call them predators, shouldn't you be happy Dancer
spotted a flaw and informed them? You think the
casino is oh so fair and entertaining, shouldn't you
be glad they weren't taken advantage of? Gosh,
you mean you aren't all one big happy family?
Everyone knows casinos are predatory however that dose not mean they don't provide entertainment.Quote: EvenBobI love this thread. I accuse casinos of being predatory
and everybody disagrees with me. Yet when you get
a chance to be the predators for a change and prey on
the casino, and its snatched away by somebody, you
cry and cry. Pretty funny.
Who's crying? Most AP's knew going in that there was a good chance the Revel would change things or try to weasel out of paying. People are annoyed that someone that was believed to be for the player's is a sheep in wolves clothing.
Quote: AxelWolfEveryone knows casinos are predatory however that dose not mean they don't provide entertainment.
.
Yeah, like the fox provides entertainment for the
chickens in the henhouse. Exactly like that, in fact.
We know, we all know casino's are out to get your money. Whats your point? Who dose not know this? The fact is its FUN FUN for responsible people just like alcohol is. We all know how bad it can be if misused, just like casino's.
Quote: KeyserI'm amused that anyone is upset over Bob Dancer.
After all, do you guys know where you're posting? Your posting here, on the Wizard's forum.
This is NOT some place where you want to teach people how to win using your latest AP methods. Far from it.
There are several different people on this board, including the Wizard, that are linked to casino management, risk consultants, etc....
Every last one of them, will, if it's in their best interest, share whatever you choose to post on this forum. It's not that they are neccessarily being shifty, it's just that it's part of their job. It's what they do.
-Keyser
Amen. Keyser’s post is the most important contribution to this discussion. The original Revel promotion thread on wizardofvegas.com has over 95,000 views. And folks are whining about being “snitched” on by a radio talk show host?!?
Quote: AxelWolfWhats your point? Who dose not know this?
Are you joking? Every time I post about the predatory
casino business model, people climb all over me. Lots
of people don't know, apparently.
Quote: AxelWolfPeople are annoyed that someone that was believed to be for the player's is a sheep in wolves clothing.
I think you meant a "wolf in sheep's clothing", but we got the point. :)
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0730.cfm
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0806.cfm
Quote: AxelWolfEveryone knows casinos are predatory however that dose not mean they don't provide entertainment.
Who's crying? Most AP's knew going in that there was a good chance the Revel would change things or try to weasel out of paying. People are annoyed that someone that was believed to be for the player's is a sheep in wolves clothing.
Most AP gurus have worked for the other side at some time. The sad truth is that you completely can't trust anybody.
I agree that people like Dancer, Eliot Jacobson and Max Rubin who play both sides without openly acknowledging the fact are scum of the worst kind, but they are the extreme end of a universal problem.
I've never understood why anybody works the other side. If you are any good you can make significantly more money as an AP. The few times I've been offered consulting work it wasn't even the same order of magnitude of profitability giving up the play as it would have been to use it. Perhaps I was getting offered less than is typical, but the type of sums other people have published suggests there isn't that much money in it.
Quote: debitncreditBy the way, what's up with Bob Dancer fixating on being robbed by some guy named Jeffrey Warren Toll? From his columns, it sounds like he got robbed about $8,000. It may be the principle of things, as he says so. But between his columns and his mentions on his radio show, it sounded really petty to me for a "Million Dollar" VP player.
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0730.cfm
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0806.cfm
Good topic. It seemed Bob N. tried to talk Bob D. out of it based on potential defamation issues. I'm not so sure making it public was a good idea for Bob D either if the casinos decide to not send him mail anymore or don't want him playing. Perhaps the chance he'll be unlucky is enough to put up with it at his playing levels. He just couldn't let it go and it might turn out to be a mistake for him.
On Revel and B Dancer, I don't think his advice would have been something they didn't already plan on based on the company hired to set up the promotion. They seem well worth the money even if their tactics are unethical because they seem to know what they're doing.
I think they are arguing more about you saying they have no entertainment value. You make it sound as if everyone in the casino is having a miserable time with no chance at ever winning a dime. You make it sound like every one that ever enters a casino to gamble is a pathetic, degenerate, moron who eventually loses their house and children's collage fund. This forum is filled with AP's that have made a good living from the casino.Quote: EvenBobAre you joking? Every time I post about the predatory
casino business model, people climb all over me. Lots
of people don't know, apparently.
As far as people consulting for casinos that's FINE go for it I don't have a problem with that. Just don't lie about it and pretend to be a player advocate. Don't provide casino's with players names who you used to play with.
Quote: onenickelmiracleOn Revel and B Dancer, I don't think his advice would have been something they didn't already plan on based on the company hired to set up the promotion. They seem well worth the money even if their tactics are unethical because they seem to know what they're doing.
I didn't know Revel had hired an outside company to set up the promotion, I thought it was set up in-house by Revel management. Do you have any details about this other company?
Quote: renoQuote: onenickelmiracleOn Revel and B Dancer, I don't think his advice would have been something they didn't already plan on based on the company hired to set up the promotion. They seem well worth the money even if their tactics are unethical because they seem to know what they're doing.
I didn't know Revel had hired an outside company to set up the promotion, I thought it was set up in-house by Revel management. Do you have any details about this other company?
I forget the name of the company, but B Dancer mentioned it himself in the referenced radio show and might have been mentioned in the revel thread. I think it's the Fine Group or Fine Point Group.
Quote: onenickelmiracleQuote: renoQuote: onenickelmiracleOn Revel and B Dancer, I don't think his advice would have been something they didn't already plan on based on the company hired to set up the promotion. They seem well worth the money even if their tactics are unethical because they seem to know what they're doing.
I didn't know Revel had hired an outside company to set up the promotion, I thought it was set up in-house by Revel management. Do you have any details about this other company?
I forget the name of the company, but B Dancer mentioned it himself in the referenced radio show and might have been mentioned in the revel thread. I think it's the Fine Group or Fine Point Group.
Yea, Larry Fine from the way it turned out. Naturally with help from his 2 friends.
What was he blasting me about? My criticism of Bob over the Revel promotion. I know Singer well enough to know that he will come up with any reason, any pretext, to insult and demean someone. Not long ago he tried to enlist me in denouncing Dancer as a sick, pathetic, degenerate, compulsive gambler, which caused his marriage to fail. Singer has been bashing Bob like that for years. I told Singer that I didn't think Bob was any of those things....and I wasn't the least bit interested in his personal life. So Singer emailed me back calling ME a sick, pathetic, degenerate, compulsive gambler, and a few other things that I won't repeat here. And the hate mail didn't let up for a week. I'm damned if I DON'T criticize Dancer. I'm damned if I DO criticize Dancer. Like I said, Singer will use any pretext to insult and demean.
I don't have any more time to waste on Singer. There is no value, nothing to be gained in exchanging with him. I've told him not to ever contact me again and blocked his emails. There is a reason he has been thrown off of every forum he has ever participated in.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIncluding this one.
Thanks for confirming that for me.
Are you being sarcastic?Quote: gpac1377Bob and Shirley divorced late last year. In his May 7th column, he wrote that the marriage failed because she's very sensitive to smoke. She was unable to continue dancing, and she couldn't tolerate Bob returning from the casinos reeking.
GotchaQuote: Buzzardno , Bob was. Viagra is not a cureall
So the real reason for the divorce was that Shirley wasn't receiving adequate sex from the Dancer?
All of this is confusing, not that I really care, but they seemed like a happy couple.
Anyone approached Shirley since the divorce for some tea and crumpets?
Quote: JIMMYFOCKERAre you being sarcastic?
Nope, that's what he wrote.
Here's the link to the column: http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0507.cfm
Actual quotes:
"According to Shirley, my pores reeked of cigarette smoke. To stay with her, I would have needed to give up casinos entirely and move away from Las Vegas."
"Without dancing, I didn't think we had enough in common to make it as a couple."
Quote: JIMMYFOCKER
Anyone approached Shirley since the divorce for some tea and crumpets?
Is she hot? Age?
Rate her on a scale 1-10.
Micky....
If you still have the hate mails you can get the IP to find out where it was sent from. If you use yahoo it's really easy. Open an email and click the actions button up top. A menu will drop and click "view full header" scroll through until you find the originating IP address and then run it through an IP search. If it came from a business or casino, you got a huge complaint against the business or casino. If it's a home PC, well, then you got nothing.
Just letting you know...
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0820.cfm
Another article boasting about his luck, guy is a real piece of work.Quote: BozHey guys, every day its a grind. You have to do what it takes to make money and keep it interesting....including selling others out.
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0820.cfm
good guest once in awhile. But I do wince at his questions
a lot, so many of them are self serving. And his
ability to brag and turn the conversation around to his
own exploits is just amazing sometimes.