Revel promotion sounds too good to be true
Quote: BozSo if they didnt understand anything found on this forum before it was posted, do you really think they should have a gaming license? Nothing was posted on here that was not available to any casino for a fee from the people that do it for a living. That is their job, to look for flaws in a promotion before offering it, silly rabbit.
Quote: BhappyMission I attribute that to low level employees not knowing the game plan (if there was any). When I was working, the VP of our division had a town hall meeting, and he assured people that our place will not be affected by layoffs. Guess what? few days later we had layoff anouncement.
I agree that was probably it, but your people answering the customer's questions need to know what is going on, or someone else needs to be answering the customer's questions. That was one of the questions that she asked someone else and got back to me with!
Quote: Frankie5angelsFirst timer here looking to set record straight. Russian crew ruined this for many by pulling their cards on ultimate x machines. Other aps were playing ult x and waiting to get to next hand is 4x or better pay mode on all levels. Then pull card out and place in next machine and play original machine one time each game that had bases loaded with no card associated with it. So in a sense they were creating false loses.
This is becoming juicy.
Quote: LossRebateWhy do people have to put so much information out in the public domain? This thread has cost a lot of people a chance to participate in a legitimate freeroll. Now, you have to give a detailed recipe for scamming. Is there any chance of casinos offering similar promos, now?
Maybe the Vegas crew doesn't care if Revel slides into the inlet and sinks, but AC regulars should want this promo to be a success for the casino.
You either cannot or will not substantiate the first part of your first statement with proof that this thread has anything to do with anything.
I do agree with you about the scamming, if that's happening, I don't think the promotion should be honored for people who are creating false losses.
"Atlantic City marketing officials have something really big in mind to pitch the resort as a vacation destination to tourists.
So big, in fact, that it will be transported by truck, assembled and then opened up for tours.
They are calling it a "pop-up casino resort" - a custom-made, two-story structure that will hit the road as a showpiece of the "Do AC" marketing campaign developed by the Atlantic City Alliance.
Sporting a $100,000 price tag, the mini-casino will feature separate rooms offering different types of "experiences" to give tourists a taste of the resort life." acpress
Quote: SanchoPanzaThey are calling it a "pop-up casino resort" - a custom-made, two-story structure that will hit the road as a showpiece of the "Do AC" marketing campaign developed by the Atlantic City Alliance.
That's not such a bad idea. If it can be implemented correctly.
Quote: randompersonThis is a Russ Hamilton level accusation. If it's true, it will be truly shocking.[/q Let me be absolutely clear I Am no accusing anyone of anything I was only repeating what I was told by multiple people I have no Idea if Mr. Dancer has ever even been to AC. I'm only telling you what someone told me. Personally I can't imagine anyone would do that no matter how tempting.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
But... there is always a price. Any chance I am wrong and they would pay it? If they are paying this AP turned consultant, say, 100 grand as a one time fee to help out on this promotion, then who am I to say I would have refused?
Quote: FeanorSo, this brings up a question I have sometimes thought about, but never tried to answer. What could I get for defecting? There is actually a casino I know of right now that has some pretty bad leaks. They are not widely known yet, but a few APs have been hitting them. I thought, "What if went to the casino and asked 'What will you give me to show you these problems that are probably costing you 3k/day and could start to cost you a lot more?'" I have to believe the answer is "A hearty handshake, and maybe a comped buffet." Certainly not enough to betray everything I love and believe in to the indolent, idiotic, immoral scum that own and operate the casino industry.
But... there is always a price. Any chance I am wrong and they would pay it? If they are paying this AP turned consultant, say, 100 grand as a one time fee to help out on this promotion, then who am I to say I would have refused?
It's not just switching sides, it's talking up the value of the promotion while working to screw his audience.
Of course most people would similarly look at their opponents cards in poker like Russ Hamilton did, that doesn't excuse the behavior or mean that we should accept them back into our community.
It seems more likely to me that this rumor got started by people with an axe to grind and then got blown up telephone game style.
Quote: LossRebateWhy do people have to put so much information out in the public domain? This thread has cost a lot of people a chance to participate in a legitimate freeroll. Now, you have to give a detailed recipe for scamming. Is there any chance of casinos offering similar promos, now?
Well, here, I'll fix that.
Casinos: If you run a loss rebate, put big signs on your Ultimate X machines, excluding them from the promo.
Done.
I am not a naive advocate for always sharing information. However, I don't see the harm in mentioning details of what certain players were doing which is a) ethically and legally questionable, b) trivial to detect, and c) trivial to defend against. Now that we know the details of what this "player abuse" was, we know that it is not a serious concern for Revel, and not at all an excuse for behaving badly towards other players.
Quote:Maybe the Vegas crew doesn't care if Revel slides into the inlet and sinks, but AC regulars should want this promo to be a success for the casino.
If Revel has behaved in the ways that many posters have alleged over the last few days, no one should wish them success in anything. It is bad for advantage players, bad for casual players, and bad for the gaming industry as a whole, when such behavior goes unpunished.
Quote: fivespotWell, here, I'll fix that.
Casinos: If you run a loss rebate, put big signs on your Ultimate X machines, excluding them from the promo.
Done.
Exactly !
AND, if you aren't smart enough to figure that out, then hire a consultant who is. Ahead of time !
Quote: JohnnyQExactly !
AND, if you aren't smart enough to figure that out, then hire a consultant who is. Ahead of time !
During WWII, Roosevelt, Churchill, Stalin, etc were repeatedly warned by their military advisors and, sometimes, the commanders on the scene, not to engage in certain moves because the result would be disastrous. Why, on a similar scenario, do you expect a casino executive to be any different?
Quote: aceofspadesQuote: rdw4potusI talked to my imaginary friend John J. J. Schmidt
His name is my name too!!!
whenever I go out...the neighbors always shout..."for heavens' sake, woman, put on some clothes!!" :D
Quote: Mission146You either cannot or will not substantiate the first part of your first statement with proof that this thread has anything to do with anything.
I do agree with you about the scamming, if that's happening, I don't think the promotion should be honored for people who are creating false losses.
It's perfectly fine for the casino to do it having a Revel brand manufacturing an expense, but if the players structure play, uh uh. Although we see it as creating or manufacturing losses, the losses are still real. In the example described there were 3 Russians doing this, then the losses were real for the losers and the wins were real for the winner. It's disturbing the promotion and Revel has so much free will in what is supposed to be a highly regulated casino market where there seems to be no rules besides power wins every time.
On a smaller scale, this promotion is similar to Resort's new member promotion "$100 On Us" when they never notified people of their promised FP either by email or mail. I and personal friends qualified, but we were never notified officially. If I would have showed up, I could only imagine the runaround I may have received. They even went as far as intentionally not entering the PIN I requested, presumably to be difficult for promotion redemption.
The underlying cause of these types of problems is the voters elect people who don't negotiate fair contracts and laws on behalf of government and the voters. If the casino wants a license, the state should require certain promises and fairness, but the politicians omit this to get campaign contributions. Casinos are private businesses who would be completely empty and bankrupt without the laws giving them monopolies, but the government never plays the card and acts like it works for the companies.
Quote: onenickelmiracleIt's perfectly fine for the casino to do it having a Revel brand manufacturing an expense, but if the players structure play, uh uh. Although we see it as creating or manufacturing losses, the losses are still real. In the example described there were 3 Russians doing this, then the losses were real for the losers and the wins were real for the winner. It's disturbing the promotion and Revel has so much free will in what is supposed to be a highly regulated casino market where there seems to be no rules besides power wins every time.
I am sorry, but I do not understand the logic. If you pull out the card (when you think it will hit), it does not register 'wins' - it only registers loss. It is like having books where you enter only the expenses, and zero sale. Let us consider an extreme example. Let us say you have the ability to fool the card reader that it will only register the coin-ins. No wins are registered. Would you say that your coin-in is the actual loss? If the reports are true, the three were trying to do something similar.
Quote: BhappyI am sorry, but as usual I do not understand the logic. If you pull out the card (when you think it will hit), it does not register 'wins' - it only registers loss. It is like having books where you enter only the expenses, and zero sale. Let us consider an extreme example. Let us say you have the ability to fool the card reader that it will only register the coin-ins. No wins are registered. Would you say that your coin-in is the actual loss? If the reports are true, the three were trying to do something similar.
There are 2 basic rules which dictate this. Perhaps they are unwritten, but any casino employee will tell you this.
1. Player is not compelled to gamble and gambling is optional. This is true even when the player doesn't expect to lose.
2. Player use of player's card is optional and not required to play a slot machine or table.
If player A decides to quit and player B plays in expected winning situations, player A still loses and player B wins. Player A invokes rule 1 deciding to quit and player B invokes rule 1 deciding to play. Each is within their rights.
Player A acts alone. Player A at his own discretion, removes card invoking rule 2 not being compelled to use a player's card. If he should choose to pull it in supposed future winning situations, it is their right.
Revel may or may not have given a reason, but Revel punished players because either they decided to not play or not use a players card and this is why it is scandalous.
Quote: onenickelmiracleThere are 2 basic rules which dictate this. Perhaps they are unwritten, but any casino employee will tell you this.
1. Player is not compelled to gamble and gambling is optional. This is true even when the player doesn't expect to lose.
2. Player use of player's card is optional and not required to play a slot machine or table.
If player A decides to quit and player B plays in expected winning situations, player A still loses and player B wins. Player A invokes rule 1 deciding to quit and player B invokes rule 1 deciding to play. Each is within their rights.
Player A acts alone. Player A at his own discretion, removes card invoking rule 2 not being compelled to use a player's card. If he should choose to pull it in supposed future winning situations, it is their right.
Revel may or may not have given a reason, but Revel punished players because either they decided to not play or not use a players card and this is why it is scandalous.
If you are purposely and repeatedly removing a players card with the sole intent of misleading the casino's loss rebate tracking then you are not going to win a good faith argument. Does anyone have the T&Cs of this promotion? I have to think this is addressed there or in general players card terms.
Quote: onenickelmiracle
Player A acts alone. Player A at his own discretion, removes card invoking rule 2 not being compelled to use a player's card. If he should choose to pull it in supposed future winning situations, it is their right.
Yes, if players A & B were independent, and there was no collusion. Here the way I read, and understand the situation. Player A removes the card anticipating furture winning situtations. Player B uses player A card to inflate the losses.
Quote: BhappyYes, if players A & B were independent, and there was no collusion. Here the way I read, and understand the situation. Player A removes the card anticipating furture winning situtations. Player B uses player A card to inflate the losses.
I thought skill was legal in NJ.
Quote: onenickelmiracleI thought skill was legal in NJ.
when did cheating became SKILL?
Quote: Bhappywhen did cheating became SKILL?
What law or regulation did the players break if they're cheating. Like Pokeraddict said, where are the terms and conditions of both the promotion and the players club and secondly, are the relevant terms legal?
Quote: BhappyYes, if players A & B were independent, and there was no collusion. Here the way I read, and understand the situation. Player A removes the card anticipating furture winning situtations. Player B uses player A card to inflate the losses.
I assumed they were independent. It's better for both players to inflate their own losses by just not using their cards when the game is in a significantly +EV state for them. It's a damn slick use of the game's rules.
It sure as hell was cheating when the casino accepted their money knowing that the gamblers would be disqualified.Quote: Bhappywhen did cheating became SKILL?
Quote: Bhappywhen did cheating became SKILL?
It's only cheating if it's against the rules. Was Revel smart enough to post that rule BEFORE the penalization started?
Quote: BhappyOK Guys I give up. You are too smart for me. However, all this huffing and puffing has not generated any traction beyond this forum. This is like pi$$ing in a dark pant. It gives a warm feeling, but no one notices it.
There are a lot of views here and the thread has been linked on other forums, so it has been seen. The way you feel is the way the system has been designed to make you feel, hopeless and useless unless you have millions to waste spend. Don't give up being the Revel's advocate because they need someone to defend them even if it's indefensible.
I am pretty sure that everyone will get a 100% of their losses returned up until the point they were excluded. That seems 100% fair to me.
Quote: onenickelmiracleThere are a lot of views here and the thread has been linked on other forums, so it has been seen. The way you feel is the way the system has been designed to make you feel, hopeless and useless unless you have millions to waste spend. Don't give up being the Revel's advocate because they need someone to defend them even if it's indefensible.
"This is still like pi$$ing in a dark pant. It gives a warm feeling, but no one notices it."?
Quote: DRichIt seems to me like people think it has to be cheating for them to be excluded. Definitely not true. As the rules say it is up to their discretion to exlcude anybody for any reason, it does not have to be classified as cheating.
I am pretty sure that everyone will get a 100% of their losses returned up until the point they were excluded. That seems 100% fair to me.
First off, no one has claimed them excluding people is cheating. What IS cheating is letting people play and THEN tell them they're excluded.
Secondly, yeah, MAYBE everyone will get their loss back, but I'm sure Revel will wait until after July and the promotion is over.
Stop being so gay for Revel.
Quote: BhappyQuote: onenickelmiracleThere are a lot of views here and the thread has been linked on other forums, so it has been seen. The way you feel is the way the system has been designed to make you feel, hopeless and useless unless you have millions to waste spend. Don't give up being the Revel's advocate because they need someone to defend them even if it's indefensible.
"This is still like pi$$ing in a dark pant. It gives a warm feeling, but no one notices it."?
Where the hell are you from where a man can piss hisself and nobody takes notice? Must be a yankee.
The move goes a lil somethin' like this: ya get yerself sat down on a one-armed bandit, put your players card in, and get down to playin. Now once you've played a couple times, ya take ANOTHER players card, and ya stuff it in the slot along with the first one. That way it looks like yer playin two machines for the price of one! Really gotta jam it in there.
Sounds to me like some of these fellas were gettin' a lil too feisty for the Revel's tastes, and they got the boot. Them's the breaks, buckaroo.
Quote: TexasOilManPeteAs The Bible says, there's ain't nothin' new under the sun, and these Revel shenanigans are no exception. Last time I saw the ol' Tennessee One-Two Teddy was back in Lousienne in... oh must have been, probably 1979. Now, back then they didn't have all these fancy machines with the buttons and the digital nonsense and all, but some things never change I guess.
The move goes a lil somethin' like this: ya get yerself sat down on a one-armed bandit, put your players card in, and get down to playin. Now once you've played a couple times, ya take ANOTHER players card, and ya stuff it in the slot along with the first one. That way it looks like yer playin two machines for the price of one! Really gotta jam it in there.
Sounds to me like some of these fellas were gettin' a lil too feisty for the Revel's tastes, and they got the boot. Them's the breaks, buckaroo.
I haven't heard about that ole Tennessee One-Two Teddy in almost 20 years! Ah the times we used to have down on them riverboats...
Ya gotta drum your fingers right across the buttons on a video poker machine, hit the buttons all crazy-like, like ya don't know your ass from Adam! Ya fiddle with em, and then PRESTO, the machine thinks yer a sucker! A common schmuck! Then ya got them right where ya want em for the big Bait n Switch.
Ya get the Sucker Status, ya get the Big Bucks. As they used to say on the rigs: "the best tasting beer is free beer."
Quote: MississippiLadyI haven't heard about that ole Tennessee One-Two Teddy in almost 20 years! Ah the times we used to have down on them riverboats...
Yeah well, like all good things, the county sheriff has to come crackin' the whip and ruining it for everyone. I still remember the day it all came crashing down, back when Jebadaih was still the bilge rat on the ol' Princess Anne. There was Faro game on that boat that was like none other!
Quote: DRichIt seems to me like people think it has to be cheating for them to be excluded. Definitely not true. As the rules say it is up to their discretion to exlcude anybody for any reason, it does not have to be classified as cheating.
I am pretty sure that everyone will get a 100% of their losses returned up until the point they were excluded. That seems 100% fair to me.
So when people complain casinos can do anything they want, the casinos cry they're highly regulated, but when casinos do anything they want, the casinos just pretend they don't do that.
Quote: TexasOilManPeteYeah well, like all good things, the county sheriff has to come crackin' the whip and ruining it for everyone. I still remember the day it all came crashing down, back when Jebadaih was still the bilge rat on the ol' Princess Anne. There was Faro game on that boat that was like none other!
Shit I went and found myself a Faro game over at the Seven Luck Casino down in the Seoul Gangnam! But DON'T wander over to the Seven Luck in the Millennium Hilton or you'll find yourself in a heap of trouble!
All I know is that back in my day, if I saw this level of jawjackin that they have here on these forums, well... let's just say some fellers would be left ass-up with a flower in it.
Quote: onenickelmiracleSo when people complain casinos can do anything they want, the casinos cry they're highly regulated, but when casinos do anything they want, the casinos just pretend they don't do that.
I don't understand what you are implying. It says in their rules that they can alter the promo, and that by playing the promotion you are agreeing to their rules.
It seems pretty straight forward to me. Don't play the promo if you don't agree to the rules.
Personally, I think it stinks that they are changing it. I doubt that I will make the trip from Vegas now to take advantage of it.
Quote: DRichI don't understand what you are implying. It says in their rules that they can alter the promo, and that by playing the promotion you are agreeing to their rules.
It seems pretty straight forward to me. Don't play the promo if you don't agree to the rules.
Personally, I think it stinks that they are changing it. I doubt that I will make the trip from Vegas now to take advantage of it.
First, you won't be able to take one trip to take advantage of the promotion. There is a strong possibility the highest awards will either wind up having their player card become inactive or needing PINs reset to thwart card and PIN sharing.
I do have an understanding the whole idea of players clubs is to ignore all laws, but to say all the thousands of people who have players cards anywhere actually agreed to a carte blanche rule, to me is a lie. It's fraudulent to have rules, then have a rule stating there are no rules. It may or not be legal, but it's definitely a crock no matter what. I have been thinking for the last few weeks and finally realized there are no regulations for players clubs, because if there are, I would love to see them in print. Probably the only one which exists is the allowance for deducting FP awards from slot revenue owed to the state. I think what may be worse from this promotion is there might be other casinos who are going to gain courage from the bold moves of the Revel if they get away with this.
Quote: DRichI don't understand what you are implying. It says in their rules that they can alter the promo, and that by playing the promotion you are agreeing to their rules.
It seems pretty straight forward to me. Don't play the promo if you don't agree to the rules.
Personally, I think it stinks that they are changing it. I doubt that I will make the trip from Vegas now to take advantage of it.
Link to rules? In my home state, Missouri, all promo changes must be approved by the gaming commission (rule that should be standard in all states, imo). However, from what I read about the NJ gaming commission lately, I would think it's 50/50 for them approving Revel immediately changing the terms anyway.
Quote: tringlomaneLink to rules? In my home state, Missouri, all promo changes must be approved by the gaming commission (rule that should be standard in all states, imo). However, from what I read about the NJ gaming commission lately, I would think it's 50/50 for them approving Revel immediately changing the terms anyway.
Thanks for reminding me about such things. I've seen some advertisements contingent on approval from gaming, but not too often.
PM them to me, because I would like to read them. I know there is a reason they call them clubs in the first place, but can't remember.
Quote: onenickelmiracleThanks for reminding me about such things. I've seen some advertisements contingent on approval from gaming, but not too often.
PM them to me, because I would like to read them. I know there is a reason they call them clubs in the first place, but can't remember.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to check some old mailers tomorrow because I am definitely not finding said phrasing I just claimed on the internet, bah. But in my mind, I swear it was in the mailers for some casinos. The relative regulation I found online only required any changes to a promo stay filed for 2 years.
(3) Documentation of any change or cancellation of a promotional activity shall be maintained on file for two (2) years with the legal counsel’s affidavit.
But in Missouri, you would definitely have a "fight" over the Revel promo with this regulation:
(A) No false or misleading statements,
written or oral, shall be made by a licensee or
its employees or agents regarding any aspect
of any promotional activity
These rules come from here:
http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/current/11csr/11c45-5.pdf
Beats me, but I think the purpose of the publicity is to get that kind of player there... NY recently arrived at an agreement to have four non-Indian casinos so when those get up and going the "NY gamblers that go to Atlantic City" may take quite a dip. Whether the Revel takes quite a dip with this promotion probably depends upon Lady Variance and the first amendments made to the terms of the offer. Remember, its a rebate in FreePlay and its in dribs and drabs requiring constant trips to the casino, meaning locals or idle gamblers only.Quote: VenthusDoes AC actually have the kind of people who can (and have the guts to!) fully take advantage of a promo like this?
Quote: FleaStiffBeats me, but I think the purpose of the publicity is to get that kind of player there... NY recently arrived at an agreement to have four non-Indian casinos so when those get up and going the "NY gamblers that go to Atlantic City" may take quite a dip. Whether the Revel takes quite a dip with this promotion probably depends upon Lady Variance and the first amendments made to the terms of the offer. Remember, its a rebate in FreePlay and its in dribs and drabs requiring constant trips to the casino, meaning locals or idle gamblers only.
Come on Eileen
Oh, I swear what he means
At this moment you mean everything
You in that dress
My thoughts I confess
Verge on dirty
Oh, come on Eileen
