Win / Loss statements

First time for me having to file a U S tax return after a hitting three taxable jackpots during my visits last year.

My first try at getting my ITIN got me a rejection letter with a try again note basically.... don't tell you why it was rejected just that it was. Got the link and some pointers from one of the board members on how to go about getting this all done. Will be back in Windsor beginning of next month so plans are to visit the IRS office in Detroit with all my paperwork completed and run it by them before sending it in. As they don't send anything back when its rejected I will need to get another copy of my passport done .

Caesars was very easy to obtain the WIN /LOSS statement online

A request sent to PALMS even without my card number got me my WIN / LOSS statement in 24 hrs great customer service

South Point I used the online request link and will wait for the snail mail to arrive ...in this day and age what's wrong with a email ?

Tropicana got a fax request sent today for my WIN / LOSS statement ( included a email address but fully expect to be waiting on snail mail delivery)


Hopefully all arrive before the end of the month so I can get this moving along. They sure put up a lot of hoops to jump thru for us to get OUR money back but its one of those things I will work on just to say I did it myself. Some businesses here will do it for you for a FEE.... which to me would work out to about .$300-400 for this years return and ITIN. So nice of them isn't it.

Any other Canadians done this is recent years with success?

Why do you need a win/loss statement? Don't you just need all of your W2-Gs?

I am not a machine player so I could be off base here, but my understanding of your situation is that you hit some taxable jackpots (>$1200), they withheld money, and you need to apply with your ITIN and whatever to get it back. I don't see how the win/loss statement figures in.

Regardless, I wish you luck. Damn the man!

Quote: AcesAndEights

Why do you need a win/loss statement? ... I don't see how the win/loss statement figures in.

I request them and use them when preparing my itemized tax return.

The Win / Loss numbers, collectively, include amounts reported on W-2Gs; I add the total wins up and then the total losses.

So far the reported win has not exceeded the yearly loss.

W/Ls seem a reasonably defensible way to calculate your wins and losses, short of logging every bet at every machine and table game as the IRS might prefer.

It's Real World info.

Report the win on page one of the 1040, and deduct the (same amount) loss on schedule A.

So far, so good.

I need the ITIN to file a tax return....the W 2s (is that what they are called that show my winnings and taxes with held?) I already have...that's my only earnings in the US of A

The WIN/LOSS statements to be able to show I really didn't win what they taxed me on

$2400 refund will fund my trip this year ..... if we complete the obstacle course they have setup

Quote: MrV

I request them and use them when preparing my itemized tax return.

The Win / Loss numbers, collectively, include amounts reported on W-2Gs; I add the total wins up and then the total losses.

So far the reported win has not exceeded the yearly loss.

W/Ls seem a reasonably defensible way to calculate your wins and losses, short of logging every bet at every machine and table game as the IRS might prefer.

It's Real World info.

Report the win on page one of the 1040, and deduct the (same amount) loss on schedule A.

So far, so good.

I report the same as you, but I don't bother looking at Win/Loss statements as they are an admitted "best guess" by the casino that depends on how closely the pit boss watched your buy in, your color up, how many chips you tip the cocktail waitress or use to buy cigs, any chips you pocketed (intentionally or not) etc. Plus I play unrated almost all the time at BJ, so no luck there. I use my gambling spreadsheet for all of the numbers.

Anyway, I agree with your statement that it is "reasonably defensible." Just know that if you get audited, they will want a "gambling diary" and the win/loss statement might be looked at as supporting information, but doubtful as a primary source. I have never been audited, but this has been my conclusion based on multiple sources. There's another long thread on this somewhere.

Sorry to derail your thread, coilman!

Quote: coilman

I need the ITIN to file a tax return....the W 2s (is that what they are called that show my winnings and taxes with held?) I already have...that's my only earnings in the US of A

The WIN/LOSS statements to be able to show I really didn't win what they taxed me on

$2400 refund will fund my trip this year ..... if we complete the obstacle course they have setup

I still don't understand. As I understand it, since you aren't a US citizen, the casino withholds taxes on big jackpots (for which you have W2-G showing each withholding). This is because you don't have an SSN so they want the money NOW. (If you are a citizen with an SSN, they will give you all the money but it will be tracked on your return.)

On other wins (i.e. small machine wins or table game wins), the casino doesn't withhold taxes.

Your objective is to get back the money that was withheld from you. For that you need an ITIN. Why does it matter what other income (or loss) you had gambling? It's not taxable, and it wasn't taxed.

Sorry if my tone is coming across as confrontational, I am not trying to pick a fight but am legitimately curious about how this all works.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Anyway, I agree with your statement that it is "reasonably defensible." Just know that if you get audited, they will want a "gambling diary"

I keep that too ... sort of.

At the end of every trip, I write the name of the casino and the total I won or lost there every day as to each of my two games: craps and slots.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Why does it matter what other income (or loss) you had gambling? It's not taxable, and it wasn't taxed.

All gambling income is taxable. Every single dollar you win is taxable. Wins are not tax exempt because they don't force you to account for them. You are supposed to self report even a single $1 won in the casino.

Quote: MrV

W/Ls seem a reasonably defensible way to calculate your wins and losses, short of logging every bet at every machine and table game as the IRS might prefer.

It's Real World info.

Report the win on page one of the 1040, and deduct the (same amount) loss on schedule A.

Interestingly enough I had to go to the IRS the other day on unrelated issues, but while there I asked about what they would consider to be legitimate documentation of gambling losses and their answer was a w/l report from the casino(s). I asked, what about a log the player keeps themselves, the answer was along the lines of, "Well, you could try that and it would be up to the individual examiner to determine if they would accept it or not, but a w/l report is the only guarantee."

So be sure to turn in those players cards and make sure the floor supervisor gets all your buy-ins and tracks your average bet.

Yeah the things you learn AFTER THE FACT. I doubt any Canadian is keeping a diary if they have never filed a return before

This year if and when I go I will keep track of it all..... which most likely will mean I will not hit a handpay

Quote: DRich

All gambling income is taxable. Every single dollar you win is taxable. Wins are not tax exempt because they don't force you to account for them. You are supposed to self report even a single $1 won in the casino.

Absolutely, I agree for US citizens. If you read the context of the thread, that was directed to coilman who is a Canadian citizen and who doesn't have to pay the US government for his gambling wins.

I report all of my gambling wins (and losses), there was a long thread with Jimbo and some other folks recently about it, but I can't find the specific one.

EDIT: Here's the thread to which I was thinking back. There's some good info in there starting on page 2. It is NOT related to the Canadian citizenship issue, but just in case anyone is curious.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Absolutely, I agree for US citizens. If you read the context of the thread, that was directed to coilman who is a Canadian citizen and who doesn't have to pay the US government for his gambling wins.

Hmmm...I may be wrong on this (d'oh!). I could have sworn you could recover all of that money regardless of your other gambling activities. But I'm finding some contradictory, some completely confusing information on the tubes. Please, international gambling tax experts (boymimbo?), enlighten me.

If you play one of these games, the winnings are not taxable to foreigners: blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6 wheel.

If you live in one of these countries, none of your winnings are taxable: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Russia, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom

If you live in Malta, your winnings, with exception to the games above, are subject to 10% tax.

If you live in Canada, your NET winnings, with exception to the games above, are subject to 30% tax. You must also substantiate the net winnings should the IRS come knocking.

If you live in any other country, all of your winnings, with exception to the games above, are subject to 30% tax.

Also, losses from a non-taxable game, like blackjack, cannot offset winnings from the taxable games.

Thank you CrystalMath, I was completely wrong in my original thought. In fact, I think I ended up with that impression after seeing some advertisements in the Vegas airport for Canadian firms that will help you recover money withheld from W2-G forms. It didn't qualify who was eligible, but I think I've got a handle on it now. You can get some or all of that money back if you file a return showing that you had losses to offset part or all of the win.

It's a pretty terribly system, to be honest, which doesn't surprise me given the IRS!

Quote: coilman

First time for me having to file a U S tax return after a hitting three taxable jackpots during my visits last year.

My first try at getting my ITIN got me a rejection letter with a try again note basically.... don't tell you why it was rejected just that it was. Got the link and some pointers from one of the board members on how to go about getting this all done. Will be back in Windsor beginning of next month so plans are to visit the IRS office in Detroit with all my paperwork completed and run it by them before sending it in. As they don't send anything back when its rejected I will need to get another copy of my passport done .

Well this past week while in Windsor I hit the Canadian Passport office to get them to make me a few OFFICIAL COPIES of my passport... like the people at the IRS now require... it has to be from the issuing office. Lady takes my passport and says you realize you have to leave this with us for this correct? I guess so...will get it back in the mail in a few weeks she says ..... that's better to me than mailing it off across the boarder to the IRS folks

Few more weeks waiting till I can file again and include my income tax 1040 NR I think it is. Well that's if SOUTHPOINT has finally gotten around to mailing me my WIN/LOSS statement.

Figure I might have my money just in time for the holidays in December ;(

Just like to thank the people on this board who assisted me in jumping thru all the RIGHT HOOPS to get this done

Have now received my ITIN number ( officially a NUMBER now)

checking on the IRS site my tax papers for 2012 have been approved too and my refund should be in the mail shortly ....but will arrive too late for the trip next week

guess I will be buying some US funds at the bank for next weeks trip

Quote: coilman

Just like to thank the people on this board who assisted me in jumping thru all the RIGHT HOOPS to get this done

Have now received my ITIN number ( officially a NUMBER now)

checking on the IRS site my tax papers for 2012 have been approved too and my refund should be in the mail shortly ....but will arrive too late for the trip next week

guess I will be buying some US funds at the bank for next weeks trip

I'm glad it finally worked out. What a pain.