Casinos Hosts and Comps

Quote: carolinajacket

Say you have a pretty high Theo, how do you know what is reasonable to ask for and receive in comps (in addition to the room)? For instance, should every meal be comped, how about money for the gift shop, other things?

That depends on the casino and depending on which casino it is, it may depend to a lesser or greater degree on the host.

As was also stated in another post, "it never hurts to ask."

Many casinos are tied to the amount that you've earned on your player's card and the hosts (or pit supervisors whom you can also talk to about a comp) will only give you a comp up to that amount on the player's card. This system removes any discretion that hosts used to have in comping their players. [The "bean counters" in management don't like it when a hosts or pit supervisor overcomps a player. The hosts and pit supervisors don't like it that they are unable to handle things as they previously did.]

Other casinos still allow the hosts to make decisions based on your play and what you request regardless as to what may be currently on your card.

I was at the Wynn last year and discovered that they allow the hosts to make the decisions on the comps. However--since it is the Wynn--the amount of the comps may be quite small compared to a different casino based on the exact same level of play.

You are correct to recognize that the amount of your comps will be based, to a great extent, on your Theo. That is why it is a good idea to ask--while you are playing at the tables as well--about your ratings including average bet and Theo. You will likely discover that not all casinos rate in the same way and, indeed, even different pit personnel within the same casino will rate your play differently. This lack of consistency for determining your average bet within the same casino is a continuing problem for casinos and for the player.

If you think you've not be fairly rated, then talk about it with the proper personnel--which would not necessarily be a host or anyone from the player service department, but rather a table games supervisor.

In addition and separate from your Theo is the fact that the casino and/or host can increase your comps based on your losses. In other words, you may have earned a certain level of comps based only on your Theo, but if you've had a large loss (or several large losses!), the casino/host will typically add a percentage of those losses (perhaps 20%) to the amount which they may comp you. This additional consideration based on your losses will not necessarily show up on what you've earned on your player's card.

If you do have a pretty high Theo, then you should try to get a host assigned to you or at least routinely call the same host for all of your needs. You should find that you may be treated a little better as the result of that one-on-one relationship with a particular host. Again, it will depend on the casino as to whether your play justifies the decision that you will be assigned a specific host.

This arrangement of having an individual host assigned to you is more likely accomplished if you do most of your play at the same casino. Guess what? That is what the casino wants. So in assigning a host to you, the casino will be better able to attract and retain all of your play.

Another thing to note is, obviously, not all comps are valued (by the casino and/or host) in the same way that you may value them. For example, the cabana by the pool at Caesar's for the day may have a larger comp value assigned to it than a suite for the weekend.

Also keep in mind the offers and coupons that you may have received. Even if your play justifies a specific host being assigned to you, that host may want to apply a coupon offer to your comp. Depending on the casino, the "payment" of your comps could come out of two different budgets. For example, a particular casino may have a "player development budget" and this is the budget that the hosts have available by which they can comp. In addition, the same casino may have a "marketing budget" and it is from this budget that the coupons (for rooms, cash, meals, etc.) are paid for. Your host may prefer to handle your needs out of this "marketing budget" and keep his/her "player development budget" available for additional things.

Not only do different casinos handle the whole matter of comps in various ways, these ways often change from time to time. So what I say here may not apply to your own individual experience at your own casino.

Let me qualify the above remarks by saying that I have not worked in a casino, nor have I worked for player development. I've started this thread in response to the question in hopes that other people may be able to shed more light on this subject.

My experience has been: If you feel like you've risked enough, as a function of size over time, and you are realistic, and you ask nicely, you'll get a meal comp. You won't get a pair of Ruth's Chris vouchers for $10 bets at 3 Card over four hours, but you'll probably get a couple buffets. That's probably about the same as $25 bets at blackjack. If I'd been playing all day and was with another couple who'd been playing, I would ask for four buffets or mid level dining comps. I've never been told no.

I've never tried gift shop comps, I never thought to. I think meals are always easier, because they seem more like hospitality than gift shop items.

It's very easy to get a buffet comp. I've always been approved for a buffet comp at Horseshoe Cleveland; not so much for a comp to the food court.

Great write up Jimbo.

This is an often rehashed topic, but you have added some fresh topics with the discussion of the different budgets available to the host. It does pay to learn as much as you can about your casino's comp guidelines. Once you know what they look for, you can be sure to maximize the potential comps you receive.

One word of caution. Don't get so focused on comps, that you lose sight of how much you are spending to get those comps.
It is pretty easy to get used to the nice treatment, the quick check-in lines, the free rooms and spa treatments, etc. But it is also easy to start playing with higher amounts than you should be, which seems okay when you are breaking close to even. But getting slaughtered is always a possibility, and then those free comps become VERY VERY EXPENSIVE.

A significant part of a VP advantage player's return will come in the form of bounce back cash/mailers/invites to promotions. These marketing tools are almost always based off of theoretical loss/average daily theoretical loss (some are based off of total loss, LOC). Therefore, managing your ADT is very critical, as well as knowing what to play. Every machine has its own setting for theo loss, some machines will even have every specific game set to a different theo loss (as a percentage of coin in). There are a lot of ways to figure out the theo for any given machine, and vary by property. Also, knowing exactly what theo loss generates what mailer is a big advantage, as some casinos might treat a 1001 theo loss very similar to a 1999 theo loss, although the second one is quite a bit more valuable. There's also a diminishing return on theo loss as well, which varies by property (bigger properties scale much higher) For example, I played 600k coin in on a 99% game at a small casino, in one day, and lost quite a sizeable amount. I got $300 FP for the next month, split into 4 increments. That same level of play at bigger casino can get you as much as a mailer for 3K in free play.

Casinos will often comp somewhere between 15-35% of your theo loss in comps, so playing the machine with the best ratio of house-calculated theo loss to actual theo loss can yield a big advantage. At most casinos, I would guess there is something that if played with correct strategy, on the right days, will yield significantly over 100%. The best things I have seen have yielded somewhere between 105-110%, after mail, for a large amount of money.

Finding the best machine at a casino that can give huge mail is not an easy task, however, and when you do find it your account may have enough visits that it's not really feasible to play it to a huge theo loss. Oddly enough, many of the people I've seen who are very methodical in managing their play and picking the best machines still seem to blast their money away on dumb things at the casino.

Comps, hard comps, soft comps, etc. etc.... after awhile it becomes too much fixation on forty percent of Theoretical Value.

Sure there are sweeteners for major wins or major losses and some sweeteners for "player investment" purposes if they think you have long term potential. Places like Tuscany have very good deals in their gift shop, other places usually have crap in their gift shop and just how many sun-caps with a casino logo would you want anyway?

Best thing to do is decide what you really and truly value and go only for straight comps that don't involve items of little real interest to you. I've heard people ask for free travel miles on their airline cards... as if some host could tap into the airline's computer and get those miles for them!

There is one thing that I learned: one computer system bills "handicapped" or " assisted-device " rooms not to the player's comp account but to some ADA Compliance Account.... so its now easier to get a comped room if you ask for one that is wheel chair accessible or has a seated shower or something like that.

Thanks for some great answers. I have found how each individual casino does it differently. A CET casino host told me "don't pay for anything" (but as suggested by my original question, I don't want to over-do-it), while the host at A CET casino told me, essentially, "we don't have any comps for you". Amazing how different they were.

PS, we are walking out the door right now heading to the airport and then Tunica. We shall see what awaits us.

Do you think one hour $25 ante Mississippi Stud is worth a buffet comp?

Quote: 1arrowheaddr

Do you think one hour $25 ante Mississippi Stud is worth a buffet comp?

No, but 3 hours might be. Remember that you are asking for something over and above what is getting put on your account for that play.

I play at Harrah's so my 1 hour of $25 MS Stud will be worth about 72 Rewards Credits. How much play is needed at Harrah's to get table game vouchers in the mail?

Quote: tongni

Oddly enough, many of the people I've seen who are very methodical in managing their play and picking the best machines still seem to blast their money away on dumb things at the casino.

Hi! Have we met?

Quote: 1arrowheaddr

I play at Harrah's so my 1 hour of $25 MS Stud will be worth about 72 Rewards Credits. How much play is needed at Harrah's to get table game vouchers in the mail?

Depend's which Harrah's. Most properties that should be enough to get you a buffet comp. I would definitely ask for one.

Quote: carolinajacket

PS, we are walking out the door right now heading to the airport and then Tunica. We shall see what awaits us.

Good luck! And a key phrase when it comes to Tunica comps seems to be "don't be afraid to ask for one".

Regarding comps and loss prospects, doesn't your cash deposit(front money) and/or credit line play a huge role it it all?