VoterID / Fraud (Split from Gun Show Loophole)
Quote: AZDuffman\
\ "you didn't build that <your business>, someone else did that!" Others call you greedy and selfish.
Meanwhile, a change in clothing styles or a year with fewer bugs can wipe you out!
That is not at all what he said and you know it. He was talking about roads and the infrastructure necessary to run a successful business.
Here is the unedited quote
There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me—because they want to give something back. They know they didn't—look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own... If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business—you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen
Now a nondisengenious person would realize he wasn't talking about the business as such but everything that came along the way so you could build that business. What you put was a tired old canard trotted out by hacks trying to win an election.
Quote: TwirdmanHere is the unedited quote
There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me—because they want to give something back. They know they didn't—look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own... If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business—you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen
"You didn't get there on your own..." Dot. Dot. Dot. Unedited indeed.
Quote: Obama, July 13There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.
So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.
I as much as anyone hate when stupid quips are taken out of context and used in an attack. But is that what we have here?
Clearly, he's talking about Socialism. That in and of itself isn't bad. I can almost guarantee everyone here wants at least a pinch of it. After all, I'm not keen on financing, building, repairing, and maintaining the road in front of my house in my spare time. Yes, please, let us cooperate on this matter.
But it's not even that he's teetering in the land of the S-word, it's that it's the soul of his speech. You can see it dripping all over it.
The thing he's preaching is just so out of touch. Imagine this - Jimmie Johnson wins at Texas. They put a mic in his face. "I just want to thank Steve Jacobson for the win. Steve is an engineer on a rig owned by Shell. He's the one who inputs commands into the computer which sent the bit down and opened up a well for fuel. Without the fuel that Steve released, we'd not have had fuel for the hauler and would have never made it here. This one's for Steve!"
That's what he's doing. Maybe you're smart, maybe you're lucky, maybe you're just good. But none of it was possible without US. And the logical conclusion - So now you owe US.
He's a total company man, and his company is the gov. Do we need touches of Socialism? Sure. Every goal, accomplishment, and dollar I've made was thanks to a road. A lot of people hate us and I can only defend against tens of threats. But that's not what he's saying. He's saying everything you are is thanks to gov, and now it's time to "give back". It's time to pay.
Some read the words and are inspired. Some read between them and are horrified.
All your base are belong to us.
Quote: TwirdmanThat is not at all what he said and you know it. He was talking about roads and the infrastructure necessary to run a successful business.
The infrastructure is there for anyone. To say it helped build your business it completely foolish. What he was saying, as others said, is he believes socialism is responsible for success and not personal initiative.
Quote:What you put was a tired old canard trotted out by hacks trying to win an election.
Kind of like when people talk about "the 47%" was not what Romney meant, right?
Quote: 1BBI just voted! Maybe one of the first on this site. I like to vote early in case I want to go back later. :-)
To everyone voting for the lesser of two evils. You're still voting for evil.
I voted October 22; the elections website said it was processed on Oct. 25. I win. Something.
First, I had to leave for work, a 70 mile drive each way today. Left just before 7 so I could not vote before work. Got back about 6. So I had an 11 hour day and golly gee, I still found time to vote! I was told when you work such a day you don't have time to vote. Weird.
Sadly, they did not ask for ID. I could have been anybody. I could have registered and voted under a fake name. This needs to be corrected.
There was no line! I live in a kind of urban area and was expecting some 3-8 hour line. Walked right up.
And there was nobody suppressing the right of blacks (no other significant minority group here) to vote. Listening to Eric Holder I expected to see some guys in hoods or fatigues stopping them. In fact blacks were actually working the polls! Amazing as I am told so many do not have ID so how could they do this? Poll workers at the least would need to show ID to be paid.
Sadly several elections had just one party running, so I wrote in "John Galt."
Quote: AZDuffmanThe infrastructure is there for anyone. To say it helped build your business it completely foolish. What he was saying, as others said, is he believes socialism is responsible for success and not personal initiative.
It's right there in the full quotation:
Quote:The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.
Not only that he credits the foundation of the country for creating the environment to succeed.
Quote:Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive
Quote: AZDuffmanThere was no line!
Lines are short today where I live because of early voting instead of trying to cram everyone in at once.
Yup.
Quote: rxwineLines are short today where I live because of early voting instead of trying to cram everyone in at once.
Yup.
So what do they have where you live, like 2 voting machines?
Quote: FaceI've never gotten involved in a discussion about this quote. I think I'll give it a shot.
"You didn't get there on your own..." Dot. Dot. Dot. Unedited indeed.
I as much as anyone hate when stupid quips are taken out of context and used in an attack. But is that what we have here?
Clearly, he's talking about Socialism. That in and of itself isn't bad. I can almost guarantee everyone here wants at least a pinch of it. After all, I'm not keen on financing, building, repairing, and maintaining the road in front of my house in my spare time. Yes, please, let us cooperate on this matter.
But it's not even that he's teetering in the land of the S-word, it's that it's the soul of his speech. You can see it dripping all over it.
The thing he's preaching is just so out of touch. Imagine this - Jimmie Johnson wins at Texas. They put a mic in his face. "I just want to thank Steve Jacobson for the win. Steve is an engineer on a rig owned by Shell. He's the one who inputs commands into the computer which sent the bit down and opened up a well for fuel. Without the fuel that Steve released, we'd not have had fuel for the hauler and would have never made it here. This one's for Steve!"
That's what he's doing. Maybe you're smart, maybe you're lucky, maybe you're just good. But none of it was possible without US. And the logical conclusion - So now you owe US.
He's a total company man, and his company is the gov. Do we need touches of Socialism? Sure. Every goal, accomplishment, and dollar I've made was thanks to a road. A lot of people hate us and I can only defend against tens of threats. But that's not what he's saying. He's saying everything you are is thanks to gov, and now it's time to "give back". It's time to pay.
Some read the words and are inspired. Some read between them and are horrified.
All your base are belong to us.
I don't see it as you do. How many people struggled, fought, even died over the last 250 years to make this America, where you can rent a storefront, get a business license for $35, and open your doors? You have laws protecting your right to operate without graft or interference, enforced by public officials, safely with everything from fire response to potholes filled taken care of, roads already paved and distribution of stock both in and out already established, building wired for electricity and plumbed to city sewers and water, office supplies down the street to create the marketing you need to distribute via newspaper, radio. and tv already extant to attract your customers. Somebody (read: everybody including you) already paid for all of that to happen.
That's all he's saying; together, the sum of America is more than the parts. We all can and have contributed. We stand on the shoulders of giants, past and present. It's a twisting of both intent and actual meaning to make it a bad thing for anybody. Who could afford to open any business, anywhere, if they had to do all of it from scratch? Only the rarest of creators, who invent something completely new that is simultaneously immediately needed by everyone on earth.
Quote: AZDuffmanSo what do they have where you live, like 2 voting machines?
I wouldn't mind the voting machines like I used in Vegas. Naw, just a stall style booth and a ballot. How many? More than 2, but not sure how many there were.
Quote: beachbumbabs
That's all he's saying; together, the sum of America is more than the parts. We all can and have contributed. We stand on the shoulders of giants, past and present. It's a twisting of both intent and actual meaning to make it a bad thing for anybody. Who could afford to open any business, anywhere, if they had to do all of it from scratch? Only the rarest of creators, who invent something completely new that is simultaneously immediately needed by everyone on earth.
I must totally disagree. WORDS MEAN THINGS!
He didn't say, " If you've got a business – you didn't do it in a vacuum, there was teamwork and you were in a society!" He said nothing like this.
Instead he said, " If you've got a business – you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." So YOU DIDN'T do it SOMEONE ELSE did it. A total slap to anyone who has worked hard to get where they are in life.
Words mean things. He has total contempt for private enterprise and the bigger the enterprise the more he hates it. No person who built something would say that. They may say "hey, I want to thank all the people who helped me along the way." But to flat out insult someone else who made it? Never.
Oh, and let me know where I need only pay a $35 fee to open my doors. Chances are I need several licenses an might even have to go before a town council to get approval. I see all the time where it takes a month or more to open for business. Of course some businesses more than others.
Quote: AZDuffmanI must totally disagree. WORDS MEAN THINGS!
He didn't say, " If you've got a business – you didn't do it in a vacuum, there was teamwork and you were in a society!" He said nothing like this.
Instead he said, " If you've got a business – you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." So YOU DIDN'T do it SOMEONE ELSE did it. A total slap to anyone who has worked hard to get where they are in life.
Words mean things. He has total contempt for private enterprise and the bigger the enterprise the more he hates it. No person who built something would say that. They may say "hey, I want to thank all the people who helped me along the way." But to flat out insult someone else who made it? Never.
Oh, and let me know where I need only pay a $35 fee to open my doors. Chances are I need several licenses an might even have to go before a town council to get approval. I see all the time where it takes a month or more to open for business. Of course some businesses more than others.
That was my personal experience; $35 and I was in business that same day. Other businesses need other, additional licensing.
His words meant what he said. I understood him perfectly, then and now. You misunderstand him deliberately.
Quote: beachbumbabsThat was my personal experience; $35 and I was in business that same day. Other businesses need other, additional licensing.
His words meant what he said. I understood him perfectly, then and now. You misunderstand him deliberately.
I did not misunderstand him at all. I heard him loud and clear. Lets take an example.
Dick and Mac McDonald started a restaurant but didn't sell many franchises. Ray Kroc took over for them and the business took off. Why did he do better? They both had the same roads, schools, and everything else.
Later when Kroc bought them out he took the rights to their name at the first store, which was renamed "The Big M" and Kroc opened a store across the street with the McDonald's name. He ran them out of business. Why? They both had the same roads, schools, and everything else.
The point is no normal person would think to say a person could not build a business without others being involved. And the choice of "you didn't....someone else made it happen" was deliberate.
Like I said, I heard him loud and clear.
http://youtu.be/i-P-CoSNYaI
Quote: beachbumbabsI voted October 22; the elections website said it was processed on Oct. 25. I win. Something.
I just dropped my ballot off with 70 minutes to spare.
Athletes are about hard work AND natural talent. i could practice baseball as much as Nolan Ryan but never be a major leaguer. And it's been quite proven at the MLB level that your best chance of becoming an MLB player has to do with the month you're born (August).
Risk goes with family. You would not take that same risk if your income was dependent on others.
Golly gee.
Repubs fibbing again about the significance of not much at all.
Quote: rxwineWhat with all the voter fraud, how did the Senate flip?
Golly gee.
Repubs fibbing again about the significance of not much at all.
Nothing has changed. Democrats still want everyone to be able to vote without ID or any means of proving that they are the person who is supposed to be voting...oh, except their word for it. Republicans want everyone to vote after being properly identified. It really isn't that much to ask in a country with MILLIONS of people running around who are not here legally, the penchant for some people trying to cheat on both sides, and a standard so low that you must meet it to cash a check...
The Democrats could still help get everyone legally entitled to the polling place, register people at many locations, etc. They can push for the laws to make it easy to get the proper IDs and to support databases identifying potential fraud.
I don't support voter ID because I think it will suppress anyone's vote. I support it because it will help make sure now, and moving forward, that legal voters are the ones voting.
Quote: RonC
I don't support voter ID because I think it will suppress anyone's vote.
Then you are the classic Republican puppet. Tell us how you dont support tax cuts for the rich because you think it will hurt the middle class, you support them because (insert nonsense republicans made you believe here).
Remember Joe, the Plumber? He wasn't really a plumber, made less than $250,000, never was going to make more than $250,000 a year, did not support tax cuts for those who made under $250,000, did not support tax increases for those who made above $250,000...all because he figured, eh, I'll be rich soon.
Quote: SonuvabishThen you are the classic Republican puppet.
Thanks for the insult, pal. You seem to think that I don't think what you think, I am a puppet. Really?
Quote: SonuvabishTell us how you don't support tax cuts for the rich because you think it will hurt the middle class, you support them because (insert nonsense republicans made you believe here).
If you read things that I've written, I've talked about many things that don't follow the party line.
Quote: SonuvabishRemember Joe, the Plumber? He made less than $250,000, never was going to make more than $250,000 a year, did not support tax cuts for those who made under $250,000, did not support tax increases for those who made above $250,000...all because he figured, eh, I'll be rich soon.
It was a lie, of course. There have been tax increases for people earning under $250,000 even though the President promised there would not be. His real intent was to grow government, not to make it better or help the middle class. We lambasted Bush for growing government, then we elected President a man who wanted to grow the government even more...
Quote: RonCThanks for the insult, pal. You seem to think that I don't think what you think, I am a puppet. Really?
If you read things that I've written, I've talked about many things that don't follow the party line.
It was a lie, of course. There have been tax increases for people earning under $250,000 even though the President promised there would not be. His real intent was to grow government, not to make it better or help the middle class. We lambasted Bush for growing government, then we elected President a man who wanted to grow the government even more...
Wow, puppet (phrased as a conditional statement, no less) is an insult now? Is it like the slander the other day Kanye Westero or whoever pointed out, that consisted of all facts? Too bad there's not a lounge with kleenex.
Yeah, I can agree the president taxed people anyway. I'm not his biggest fan. BUT, Joe the Plumber wasn't worried about taxes from a different program. He figured he was basically already rich, and that $250,000 threshold pertained to him. He was a brainwashed fool.
Quote: SonuvabishWow, puppet (phrased as a conditional statement, no less) is an insult now?
Yes, it was...and you are smart enough to know that writing it a certain way doesn't make it anything less of an insult. Not an insult I would want someone to get suspended for, not a horrible insult, but an insult nonetheless.
Quote: RonCYes, it was...and you are smart enough to know that writing it a certain way doesn't make it anything less of an insult. Not an insult I would want someone to get suspended for, not a horrible insult, but an insult nonetheless.
I didn't write it a certain way to try and avoid making it insulting, because I cannot consider that an insult. The last time I was mad and wanted to call someone a name, calling them a puppet would certainly have gotten me laughed at...isn't puppet a synonym for doll, which is a compliment? Isn't that a huge stretch to allege it's an insult? I'm sorry, I meant to say doll, not puppet...which doesn't change the meaning of the sentence one bit, it just makes it strange.
Quote: SonuvabishI didn't write it a certain way to try and avoid making it insulting, because I cannot consider that an insult. The last time I was mad and wanted to call someone a name, calling them a puppet would certainly have gotten me laughed at...isn't puppet a synonym for doll, which is a compliment? Isn't that a huge stretch to allege it's an insult? I'm sorry, I meant to say doll, not puppet...which doesn't change the meaning of the sentence one bit, it just makes it strange.
Puppet...let me see...sure, it's a compliment...
Walter, with Jeff Dunham's hand up his ass, is a puppet.
Jose Jalapeno, with a guy named Dunham holding his stick (not that there is anything wrong with that...) is a puppet.
Pinocchio? Lambchop?
You were the one that said it was a conditional statement, right?
I'm laughing at how hard you are working to say it wasn't an insult in any way; on the other hand, I could give two craps...I just pointed it out as an insult but you are free to insult me if you feel the need to do so.
Quote: RonCPuppet...let me see...sure, it's a compliment...
Walter, with Jeff Dunham's hand up his ass, is a puppet.
Jose Jalapeno, with a guy named Dunham holding his stick (not that there is anything wrong with that...) is a puppet.
Pinocchio? Lambchop?
You were the one that said it was a conditional statement, right?
I'm laughing at how hard you are working to say it wasn't an insult in any way; on the other hand, I could give two craps...I just pointed it out as an insult but you are free to insult me if you feel the need to do so.
You said the a-word. I can't even read the rest, I'm too busy crying.
I've seen a lot profanity, lately. I guess that is not a rule anymore...or maybe it's just cuz Buzz and Evenbob do it, and they are secret mods so they get qualified immunity.
It wasn't an insult. I'm busy trying to point out how ridiculous I think your position is, not anything else. I give up and rest my case.
The guy bowing,,,,,that' the puppet,you just can't see the strings, but they are attached.
Quote: boymimbo
Athletes are about hard work AND natural talent. i could practice baseball as much as Nolan Ryan but never be a major leaguer. And it's been quite proven at the MLB level that your best chance of becoming an MLB player has to do with the month you're born (August).
OK, I'll bite, why would this be? I am guessing it is a correlation thing?
Quote: SonuvabishYou said the a-word. I can't even read the rest, I'm too busy crying.
I've seen a lot profanity, lately. I guess that is not a rule anymore...or maybe it's just cuz Buzz and Evenbob do it, and they are secret mods so they get qualified immunity.
It wasn't an insult. I'm busy trying to point out how ridiculous I think your position is, not anything else. I give up and rest my case.
If you think my position is wrong and ridiculous, go ahead and point it out. My only point in objecting to what you said was that you called me a "puppet" which is an insult any way you try to spin it. Again, not a horrible thing and not something I'd want you suspended for or anything like that, but it was meant to be an insult.
Since you haven't pointed out an realistic reason for me to believe that it was not meant as an insult of sorts, why keep defending it? Why not just say that you don't like my position and leave it at that?
Anyway, we've talked about presenting ID at the voting place but we haven't talked as much about proving citizenship in order to register to vote. Is it the position of those who oppose voter ID to also oppose proving your right to vote (citizenship) at registration? I know that Common Cause supports registration without proof of citizenship, but how do you folks feel?
Quote: RonCI've been watching Fox and MSNBC over the past 12 hours. MSNBC seemed almost giddy that the Republicans won because they seem to think the Republicans will screw up enough to help Democrats win the Senate and Presidency in 2016. It is an issue that the Republicans need to beware of...
Like an NFL team who figures go ahead and lose so they get a better draft pick.
Quote:Anyway, we've talked about presenting ID at the voting place but we haven't talked as much about proving citizenship in order to register to vote. Is it the position of those who oppose voter ID to also oppose proving your right to vote (citizenship) at registration? I know that Common Cause supports registration without proof of citizenship, but how do you folks feel?
My guess is most people who are against the commonsense ID laws will also be against proving citizenship and they will give the same excuses.
Quote: beachbumbabs
I don't see it as you do.
Indeed lol.
Quote: BBBThat's all he's saying; together, the sum of America is more than the parts. We all can and have contributed. We stand on the shoulders of giants, past and present. It's a twisting of both intent and actual meaning to make it a bad thing for anybody. Who could afford to open any business, anywhere, if they had to do all of it from scratch? Only the rarest of creators, who invent something completely new that is simultaneously immediately needed by everyone on earth.
I can sort of see that. But in order to do it, I have to read his speech the way I read the Bible. I have to ignore the facts of the words used and instead search for the allegory. But doing so doesn't seem to be intellectually honest.
He wasn't giving an inspirational speech, he wasn't just spouting the company line. He was talking directly about raising taxes for the rich, and used this as his argument.
That, to me, is frightening. It's the way he says it and the words he used that tells the whole story.
Imagine, Babs, that you decide to get back into swimming. You pay your dues to the local hole and you set to training. And unlike 99% of people, you pick yourself up by your bootstraps and you bust ass. Weeks go by, months go by, and you're still at it. The pounds drop, the times drop, and suddenly the Director pulls you aside. "Babs" he says, "You are blowing my mind here. Look at you! I hardly recognize you. And these lap times? Babs... your times are reaching that of our local college athletes. I have to say, what you've done is nothing sort of astounding."
"And that's why I've asked you here. You see, while everyone pays their fair share, you are getting more out of this than anyone else. Yeah, you had the drive and determination, you're the one who showed up here day in and day out. But Bernie came in last September to fix the pump, which allowed you to not miss a day. Without Bernie, you couldn't do this. You owe those who have kept this place running. Your dues? Yeah, yeah, they already pay for Bernie. But still, you got so much out of it, we're going to have to ask you to pay more."
How is that any different? He talks as if the gov is doing favors, favors for which "extra" is owed. Fealty? Admiration? I dunno, but something. I feel it all over that speech. It's horrible. It's enough of a reason to go to war. It makes me hair up.
I ask you, honestly - couldn't he have saved a lot of time and words and simply said "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?
Yes, we are one Nation, under God, indivisible. But we are still individuals. Our individual successes are what make the whole so much more. He devalues the individual. Whatever you do means nothing because you could not do it without us.
My mom always said I was special. Mr. Obama has disrespected my mother.
"Obama was a pawn of the moneyed interests before he even took office. He didn't sell out; he was a well engineered product with a well targeted brand, selected and groomed for it.
Less a politician than a thoroughly modern manager, Obama's primary objectives are to please his shareholders, whomever those may be. They were certainly not the people who voted for him and he is not any kind of progressive or reformer once one scratches the surface." Jesse
"We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering."
FDR 1936
Quote: petroglyph
http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/10/31/wall-street-spends-record-sum-in-midterm-election-betting-on-republican-puppets-this-time/
"the American public knows that it doesn’t matter which Democrat of Republican crony they vote for. In contrast, Wall Street understands it still needs to sponsor the winning puppet." Citizens United, lol.. the owners are just having a little fun with oxymorons, citizens united hehe..hehehe. They must about pee themselves everytime somebody brings that up and here we are, haggling over a few would be voters.
Well I guess we will see if they got what they paid for.
Quote: RonCIf you think my position is wrong and ridiculous, go ahead and point it out. My only point in objecting to what you said was that you called me a "puppet" which is an insult any way you try to spin it. Again, not a horrible thing and not something I'd want you suspended for or anything like that, but it was meant to be an insult.
Since you haven't pointed out an realistic reason for me to believe that it was not meant as an insult of sorts, why keep defending it? Why not just say that you don't like my position and leave it at that?
A puppet is a representational figure manipulated by a puppeteer. Since there is no better way to figuratively (or literally) describe what I believed your position to reflect, how is it an insult? Youre a guy, I'm assuming. Suppose at a young age your parents told you that you weren't a girl, which is a fact. Is that an insult? I realize that Republicans find facts insulting most of the time when they aren't ignoring them, but come on. For the intended meaning, do you know of what would have worked better than puppet?
And how is doll, a compliment, being a synonym to puppet, not convincing enough? Not saying puppet is a compliment...but saying it's too close to a compliment to be an insult.
I rest my case again! If you wish to be impossible to convince, that's OK.
Quote: RonCYou altered my original statement and what you're writing right now, pretending to be me, is a personal insult
No, it isn't.
Since there is no better way to figuratively (or literally) describe what I believed your position to reflect, how is it an insult? Youre a guy, I'm assuming. Suppose at a young age your parents told you that you weren't a girl, which is a fact. Is that an insult? I realize that Republicans find facts insulting most of the time when they aren't ignoring them, but come on. For the intended meaning, do you know of what would have worked better than puppet?Quote: SonuvabishA puppet is a representational figure manipulated by a puppeteer.
And how is doll, a compliment, being a synonym to puppet, not convincing enough? Not saying puppet is a compliment...but saying it's too close to a compliment to be an insult.
I rest my case again! If you wish to be impossible to convince, that's OK.
Exactly...read what you wrote. You accused me of not being able to think for myself as if somehow disagreeing with your position makes that the case.
It isn't that big of deal; it was just unnecessary.
Quote: Quote: RonCYou altered my original statement and what you're writing right now, pretending to be me, is a personal insult
Quote: SonuvabishNo, it isn't.
I'm not sure where that came from...something a while back? Whatever...
"More than 14 percent of non-citizens in both the 2008 and 2010 samples indicated that they were registered to vote."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/10/24/could-non-citizens-decide-the-november-election/
The study may have flaws, but do those potential flaws render all of the data useless or just not accurate...in other words, if even 1% of the sample...or .0001% of the sample...is voting illegally, is that not an issue?
http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/10/28/what-other-academics-think-of-the-questionable/201347
Each of us that are citizens have the right to one vote unless we are otherwise disqualified to vote. One illegal vote potentially cancels out your vote.
Of course, does it matter at all to those who think the votes will go there way?
It feels like it is, based on the oddities of American Immigration, but that's my naive view.
“This first election post the Shelby v. Holder decision resulted in problems in every single state previously protected by the Voting Rights Act,” Brooks said. “For 49 years, these states were singled out because they had a history of discriminating against American voters. The Election Protection Hotline we manned with other concerned organizations fielded over 18,000 calls yesterday, many in those same states previously protected by the VRA.”
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/11/06/scott-on-f-grade-from-naacp-its-because-i-believe-that-progress-has-to-be-made/
The Voter ID requirements are designed to help identify all legal voters and allow them to cast their ballot. Obviously, both the left and right have complaints about what goes on in elections, so why not make it easy to figure out who the legal voters are and make sure that they get every opportunity to vote on election day? If anyone tries to stop a legally registered and properly identified voter in any way, prosecute them. Prosecute them if the are Democrats; prosecute them if they are Republicans.
It isn't like anyone is supporting people having to have common sense or anything to vote...just an ID.
Quote: RonC
The Voter ID requirements are designed to help identify all legal voters and allow them to cast their ballot. Obviously, both the left and right have complaints about what goes on in elections, so why not make it easy to figure out who the legal voters are and make sure that they get every opportunity to vote on election day? If anyone tries to stop a legally registered and properly identified voter in any way, prosecute them. Prosecute them if the are Democrats; prosecute them if they are Republicans.
It isn't like anyone is supporting people having to have common sense or anything to vote...just an ID.
It is time for a muckraking news organization to offer a reward for someone who has proof of not being able to vote. Prove they could not get an ID. Prove they were stopped at the polls. Then either work to stop the suppression or tell the person, "yo, chief, you just need to go get a form of ID and you can vote." Make a story showing *how* you get ID if say your house burned and you lost all your paperwork.
The thing is, the NAACP and similar groups don't want to show how easy it is to get an ID. Their existence depends on proving racism at every turn. Their message is "if you are black, you cannot succeed without us!" If they simply show how easy it is for anyone to get an ID they teach the man to fish instead of giving him a fish.
Of course, they don't give the fish, they demand someone else give the guy their fish, but I digress.......
Quote: RonC
Exactly...read what you wrote. You accused me of not being able to think for myself as if somehow disagreeing with your position makes that the case.
It isn't that big of deal; it was just unnecessary.
I hate when people say 'accuse' on here. Did I really accuse you of being a puppet, as if it were a crime against nature? Was it an accusation that I made...or was it, possibly more accurately, a statement that I made? Ugh anyway...
Although I agree with you that you are not able to think for yourself and disagreeing with my position is the perfect example of that (am I clear on what you said?), that was not my "accusation". My statement was regarding your apparent belief that your interests and those of the rich are somehow parallel; or in other words, believing that the "correct" side of an issue presented to you from sources like Fox news would make your life better.
Quote: RonC
I'm not sure where that came from...something a while back? Whatever...
LOL, I made that up
Quote: AZDuffmanIt is time for a muckraking news organization to offer a reward for someone who has proof of not being able to vote. Prove they could not get an ID. Prove they were stopped at the polls. Then either work to stop the suppression or tell the person, "yo, chief, you just need to go get a form of ID and you can vote." Make a story showing *how* you get ID if say your house burned and you lost all your paperwork.
The thing is, the NAACP and similar groups don't want to show how easy it is to get an ID. Their existence depends on proving racism at every turn. Their message is "if you are black, you cannot succeed without us!" If they simply show how easy it is for anyone to get an ID they teach the man to fish instead of giving him a fish.
Of course, they don't give the fish, they demand someone else give the guy their fish, but I digress.......
This is so...what's a good non-insult...this post appears extremely dumb, but you personally are SMART, while appearances are sometimes deceiving, so maybe the post is also CLEVER too despite doing a GREAT job at appearing otherwise. Try to follow me.
Who votes Democrat, poor or rich? Poor.
Who is less likely to have an ID, poor or rich? Poor.
Who is more likely to work 3 jobs, poor or rich? Poor
Who is less likely to have time to vote poor or rich? Poor
We can do the same thing with black and white; woman and man; young and old; single and married.
What do you think happens when someone has limited time and no ID? Do you think they say, well I'm gonna take off work today because it's so damn important that I get to the voting booth, or do they say, I'm starving and I need to make enough to eat? The laws are not designed to make it impossible to vote. No one is arguing that. That seems to be the thrust of your argument. Anyone can get an ID. Yeah. We know that. The laws are designed to discourage democratic voters from voting. To think they'd want ANY voting law (not related to improving civil rights or reducing costs) without giving themselves a political edge makes little to no sense. What constituents want this law and why? You defend this law by saying it's not bad cuz this and that, but it clearly represents the will of Republican representatives, not anyone's constituents.
