The Verge: Hacking Vegas
Thread Rating:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/14/3857842/las-vegas-casino-security-versus-cheating-technology
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/14/3874530/house-odds
Notable quotes:
"Advantage Players are not cheats, so we don't treat them like cheats." -- Ted Whiting, Director of Surveillance, Aria
Quote: MrVInteresting, especially the info about Keith Taft. Thanks for posting.
FYI, his biography is in the Kindle Lending Library:
http://www.amazon.com/The-High-Tech-Gambler-Astonishing-ebook/dp/B00AKOCQLC
Quote: MathExtremistRecent article/video on casino cheating, including some good historical info.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/14/3857842/las-vegas-casino-security-versus-cheating-technology
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/14/3874530/house-odds
Notable quotes:
"Advantage Players are not cheats, so we don't treat them like cheats." -- Ted Whiting, Director of Surveillance, Aria
How is counting cards without the help of any outside device or entity any different than an advantage player on slots or vp manipulating slot club benefits to make a play over 100%?
Quote: iluvdisco33How is counting cards without the help of any outside device or entity any different than an advantage player on slots or vp manipulating slot club benefits to make a play over 100%?
I wouldn't think it is.
Gaming the system is different than hacking it, though -- I've dealt with actual loyalty club points thefts before. That's a proper crime.
Quote: MathExtremistGaming the system is different than hacking it, though -- I've dealt with actual loyalty club points thefts before. That's a proper crime.
Gaming and hacking a system mean the same thing. It's when you cross some vaguely defined line, that both become a crime.
Quote: GHGaming and hacking a system mean the same thing. It's when you cross some vaguely defined line, that both become a crime.
That's not what I intended those words to mean. To me, "gaming" a system is playing within its rules to achieve a result that the system designer didn't intend or expect. "Hacking" is breaking the rules of the system. Exploiting 10x loyalty points offers to eke out a narrow theoretical advantage on a slot game isn't a crime, but using a light wand is.
Quote: MathExtremistThat's not what I intended those words to mean. To me, "gaming" a system is playing within its rules to achieve a result that the system designer didn't intend or expect. "Hacking" is breaking the rules of the system. Exploiting 10x loyalty points offers to eke out a narrow theoretical advantage on a slot game isn't a crime, but using a light wand is.
Agreed. Although I'd say that hacking is more like "doing things" to a system that a designer didn't think of. Using a light wand obviously crosses a line; but "pulling your card out" is/was something the designers didn't think of, and is/was "their problem" to fix.
Quote: GHAgreed. Although I'd say that hacking is more like "doing things" to a system that a designer didn't think of. Using a light wand obviously crosses a line; but "pulling your card out" is/was something the designers didn't think of, and is/was "their problem" to fix.
That's true, but to my knowledge card-pulling isn't a crime either. The only case on this I know of is Blauvelt et al. v MGM, the case of several high-rollers using the card-pulling technique on VP games. They initiated suit when MGM confiscated their loyalty points but that case was settled in 2011. The Blauvelts were never prosecuted for any crime that I'm aware of.
http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/D_Magazine/2010/December/The_Blauvelt_Family_of_Mansfield_Guide_to_Outplay_Vegas_Casinos.aspx
