People thinking you have a gambling problem

I am an avid poker player, though only for a year and a half (I'm only 21). I realized that the taboo on gambling makes it very difficult to participate without lots of people, especially my family, worrying that I have a gambling problem. I'm quite sure that I don't- I sometimes play excessively, but no more than any other hobby I have ever had, and it is always when I have the free time to do so. I don't sacrifice important things to play, I don't play with money I don't have, and I very rarely play compulsively or with lack of enjoyment. Every now and then, I win or lose a hand and that adrenaline makes you play a little longer against your best judgement, but I think that's normal, and it has never cost me too much.

Overall, I'm a winning player. I started out with $5 in a friendly home game, deposited my win online, and now I have a $300 bankroll. Yeah, it's no legendary story, but it's pretty damn good. I find it so strange that nobody had any problems when I golfed almost daily for a few years, a game where I had a 0% financial return and often was equally flustered, but they are worried about me loving a game where I might actually be able to turn a profit with money I am more than willing to part with in the sake of entertainment.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if anybody else has a similar story. I think the social pressure is good, but it's also confusing. How am I supposed to know if I have a problem if people always assume it to be true? I know a lot of you play at casinos all the time, but don't have a gambling issue. Do you have similar issues? Does it ever make you think you do have a problem?

You have a gambling problem when....

You lie about your activities
You use money you need (rent, car payments, mortgage etc) for playing
You miss important events as you were playing (dinner dates, birthdays, work...)
You try not to play but you end up playing anyway
You cannot stop at a certain time (this time I'll be home at 10:00pm etc)

If you count three then you have an issue and should seek advice..

If thats not you, dont worry, no problem. The $300 bankroll thinks you have this well under control.

The lying about about your activities one is subjective. My parents don't know about my vegas trip last week. I didn't outright lie, but they believe I was at school (on my day off). If you find too much judgment, just don't tell people.

Lesse,

no (though I agree with ahiromu),
no,
Sometimes a tournament has run later than I thought and made me flake on minor activities (still makes people mad), but if it's important, I ditch poker,
Every now and then, usually out of the anxiety of boredom,
no,

So, 1 and a half? I'm safe. It's still not great having people think you have a problem because your hobby has a bad social stigma.

Quote: FootofGod

Do you have similar issues? Does it ever make you think you do have a problem?

Keep examining yourself. These are good questions for everyone to ask who gambles. I equate it to anyone who really drinks, excepting those who reluctantly drink a small glass of wine at social events. Someone who really drinks needs monitoring, that includes me, and it is a good thing to know this.

Likewise true gamblers. I don't know how much of a risk factor it is to be a person who gets obsessed by things, but it has to be some kind of factor. You seem to recognize this in yourself and I think for myself it would be my main risk factor to ever develop a problem in gambling. I like to think knowing this is good, a remedy for later possible denial syndrome. I was able to defeat a drinking problem without professional help, so I know what I'm talking about. This also means recognizing that I am still at risk, since I still drink. Generally speaking, whatever point you are at in "Problem XYZ", when you stop and then go back at it, you pick up exactly where you left off. To defeat this cycle requires extraordinary measures, not excluding professional help and not excluding abstinence. You should not view this last measure with complete horror, that also is a bad sign.

BTW Madmike gave an excellent checklist.

Quote: FootofGod

Sometimes a tournament has run later than I thought and made me flake on minor activities (still makes people mad), but if it's important, I ditch poker

It ran longer than you thought, or you thought you wouldn't last as long as you did?

If it's the former, then you're estimating badly. After one or two bad estimates, you should be able to figure it out. But it seems you haven't figured it out yet.

If it's the latter, then you should stop getting into tournaments until you have more confidence. I.E. If you don't expect to last that long, then you're getting into the tournament with no expectation to win, or even cash - despite the claim in your first post that you're a winning player.


Bottom line: Both of those scenarios suggest denial, which is an indication of problem gambling.

Ever notice when your a winner everyone thinks your great but when that occassional big loss hits you suddenly have a problem? (I lost a little over 1,000 last week mostly in pai gow poker/ pai gow/ Asia poker/ mini pai gow poker betting no more than 20 a hand just a run of bad luck. I learned my lesson about playing the varients!)Oh yeah it was an annoying loss since that's a big chunk of change to a 24 yearold but I used the tax refund as a gambling budget!

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

... but I used the tax refund as a gambling budget!

You probably will be thinking "oh shut up" but I can't resist pointing out that your tax refund was *your* money you loaned to the government at no interest and once you get it back it hardly means you found it growing on trees...

Quote: madmike

You have a gambling problem when....

You use money you need (rent) for playing

I've done this. What happened was, I took a couple hundred out of my account for my share of the rent, and before I could contribute it, we stopped at a casino. Not having any other money on me, and not wanting to be bored for a couple hours, I took some of it and played some video poker. I managed to make a tidy little profit, too, so I didn't have to stop at the ATM later and fill back up. So in reality, I actually had the money to cover and I wasn't about to gamble it all; I was only "gambling with the rent money" out of convenience.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

It ran longer than you thought, or you thought you wouldn't last as long as you did?

If it's the former, then you're estimating badly. After one or two bad estimates, you should be able to figure it out. But it seems you haven't figured it out yet.

If it's the latter, then you should stop getting into tournaments until you have more confidence. I.E. If you don't expect to last that long, then you're getting into the tournament with no expectation to win, or even cash - despite the claim in your first post that you're a winning player.

Yeah, it was mostly stupid time management. Playing a tournament I usually don't play thinking "it'll probably only take 3 hours to play if I manage to make it" and it ends up being 3 1/2. No big. There's been a couple of times where I really did get a big stack in a tournament that wouldn't end for a few hours, so I just left, sat out, and cashed wherever I ran out of chips. I mostly played those to kill time. Maybe I should always "play to win," but whatever. It was a $3 tournament, and I got a little more than my money back.

There are gambling addiction quizzes out there. Gambler's anonymous has twenty questions. If you answer yes to 7 or more questions, you've probably got a problem.

20 Questions

1. Did you ever lose time from work or school due to gambling?
2. Has gambling ever made your home life unhappy?
3. Did gambling affect your reputation?
4. Have you ever felt remorse after gambling?
5. Did you ever gamble to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties?
6. Did gambling cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency?
7. After losing did you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses?
8. After a win did you have a strong urge to return and win more?
9. Did you often gamble until your last dollar was gone?
10. Did you ever borrow to finance your gambling?
11. Have you ever sold anything to finance gambling?
12. Were you reluctant to use "gambling money" for normal expenditures?
13. Did gambling make you careless of the welfare of yourself or your family?
14. Did you ever gamble longer than you had planned?
15. Have you ever gambled to escape worry, trouble, boredom or loneliness?
16. Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance gambling?
17. Did gambling cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?
18. Do arguments, disappointments or frustrations create within you an urge to gamble?
19. Did you ever have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours of gambling?
20. Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your gambling?


But back to the OP, my friends give me a hard time about gambling only because I play table games with higher limits and my friends don't understand that although you risk far more in a table game, you are also most likely to win more. I explain to them it's a form of entertainment.

I hate that quiz.

I think each question should be given a point value.

For example, I think question 20 should be weighted a little more than question 4.

Question #4 - "Have I ever felt remorse after gambling?" - Um, after each loss, yes - after each win, yes (I should have put more on that hand!)

You could take that list of questions and substitute almost any other word for "gambling".


Have you ever shopped to escape worry, boredom or loneliness?
Did playing video games affect your reputation?
Have you ever sold anything to finance surfing?
Do arguments or frustrations create an urge within you to eat ice cream?


The point is, if you have that type of personality, you will eventually have a problem with something that you do. People pick on things like drinking and smoking and gambling, but an addiction is an addiction, regardless of the activity. An otherwise innocent hobby like collecting stamps can become an addiction if it takes over your life.

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

... but I used the tax refund as a gambling budget!

You probably will be thinking "oh shut up" but I can't resist pointing out that your tax refund was *your* money you loaned to the government at no interest and once you get it back it hardly means you found it growing on trees...

yeah but a savings account now is practically 0% interest have you looked at the rates lately?

I actually read that gambling addiction is a misnomer.

It's actually an impulse control disorder. Not sure what the difference is...

Also, National Problem Gambling Awareness Week is from 3/7 - 3/13, so we don't have to worry for another year.

Maybe to be considered an addiction there must be a physical dependency that must be satisfied and maintained, as opposed to an impulse or compulsion, which is a mental or psychological condition?

Quote: madmike

You have a gambling problem when....

You lie about your activities
You use money you need (rent, car payments, mortgage etc) for playing
You miss important events as you were playing (dinner dates, birthdays, work...)
You try not to play but you end up playing anyway
You cannot stop at a certain time (this time I'll be home at 10:00pm etc)

If you count three then you have an issue and should seek advice..

If thats not you, dont worry, no problem. The $300 bankroll thinks you have this well under control.

Brushing aside the fact that a certain amount of your income is vital to paying your bills and keeping your life from turning into chaos is enough to be worried. I think lying goes hand in hand with this since people you know, whether friends or family, will start to catch on and you either become ashamed or resentful that they are poking their noses into "your affairs".

Just keep your bankroll at a point where your other obligations are still going to be taken care of and you still have a little bit of a financial cushion on top of that.

I stick with a $100 ($200 tops if I'm going to play BJ and craps the same night, $100 per game) normally and walk away if I double it, or if I'm on a great run I'll play until my next loss and then walk away. If I come out a winner I'm most likely to go back to the casino in a week or so. If I lose I stay away for a couple weeks, maybe more, especially if I start getting the idea of getting back to even with the casino. When that happens it takes the fun out of it and if you lose another bank roll you fell ten times as miserable as you did walking out the last time.

I've never been bitten by the Poker bug, as Texas Hold em' has never really interested me, though I do like 7 card stud and the different vartions of that like Chicago. Learning how to keep a poker face and trying to get an edge on an opponent by knowing their tell tale signs (especially weekend warriors) seems like it would take a lot more time than learning to count cards for BJ.

Quote: FinsRule

For example, I think question 20 should be weighted a little more than question 4.

Question #4 - "Have I ever felt remorse after gambling?" - Um, after each loss, yes - after each win, yes (I should have put more on that hand!)

Hmmm....

Quote: boymimbo

20. Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your gambling?

Sometimes at the craps table, I'll joke to the people next to me:
"Craps is the only game where, even when you're winning, you want to kill yourself."

Quote: derik999

I've never been bitten by the Poker bug, as Texas Hold em' has never really interested me, though I do like 7 card stud and the different vartions of that like Chicago. Learning how to keep a poker face and trying to get an edge on an opponent by knowing their tell tale signs (especially weekend warriors) seems like it would take a lot more time than learning to count cards for BJ.

I personally have love for all poker games, especially 7 card stud, and all casino games, as well. But when it comes down to what I feel my strengths are and ease of getting a game, hold 'em seems to take the cake. I would play PLO8 at the local casino, but they rarely open up a table... and there's NO shot of getting a stud or draw game going. They know where the money is, and they set up accordingly.

Quote: FootofGod

Quote: derik999

I've never been bitten by the Poker bug, as Texas Hold em' has never really interested me, though I do like 7 card stud and the different vartions of that like Chicago. Learning how to keep a poker face and trying to get an edge on an opponent by knowing their tell tale signs (especially weekend warriors) seems like it would take a lot more time than learning to count cards for BJ.

I personally have love for all poker games, especially 7 card stud, and all casino games, as well. But when it comes down to what I feel my strengths are and ease of getting a game, hold 'em seems to take the cake. I would play PLO8 at the local casino, but they rarely open up a table... and there's NO shot of getting a stud or draw game going. They know where the money is, and they set up accordingly.

I may be missing some of the intricacies of the game, but Hold Em' to me has boiled down to a game of who can BS the best through their betting choices or their mannerisms. I know that these guys are aware of the percentages of cards coming up based on their hand and the community cards, but for some reason the only skill I observe is how well they can trick someone into continuing to bet on a hand that they feel will win. It is like the personalities of the players are more important than the game itself, at least when you watch the WSOP and the poker pros that have become celebrities.

Quote: FootofGod

....I would play PLO8 at the local casino, but they rarely open up a table... and there's NO shot of getting a stud or draw game going. They know where the money is, and they set up accordingly.

Do you ask them to start a list of desire?

Casinos make the same rake no matter what the game is. All they want is full tables so they can maximize the rake on every hand.

But they are never going to open a game unless they know people want to play it. You gotta ask them to start the list.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: FootofGod

....I would play PLO8 at the local casino, but they rarely open up a table... and there's NO shot of getting a stud or draw game going. They know where the money is, and they set up accordingly.

Do you ask them to start a list of desire?

Casinos make the same rake no matter what the game is. All they want is full tables so they can maximize the rake on every hand.

But they are never going to open a game unless they know people want to play it. You gotta ask them to start the list.

No, I asked them and they said they will usually only do it if they have a full 10 seats and usually won't even bother if its not friday or saturday because they know it won't happen, and they almost will never bother with draw/stud games because people would rather play flop-based games and they can get more hands per hour with bigger pots, meaning more rake. Really, it's a bit of both- lack of demand and lack of the casino wanting to cater to a small crowd. For instance, they switched a Tuesday limit HOE tournament that got about 3 tables to another NLHE tourmanet and shot up to about 70 people. This is actually too many people for the current blind structure... I made it to the final table and everybody but 2 people had 1 1/2 orbits worth of chips.

Now there's no non-NLHE tournaments at all. It's a small Indian casino. They really only care about the money. I want to go somewhere else because of that, but i have to wait a few months before I'll have the time to venture farther.