2nd Debate Tonight
a code word for something?
The comment out of context is sort of meaningless.
As an evasive answer to the question asked it was somewhat offensive.
Quote: WongBo
As an evasive answer to the question asked it was somewhat offensive.
Talk about grasping at straws. The guy made no
tactical errors so lets make fun of his tie. Get real.
And had a vagina that mittens wants to regulate, you would get it.
Quote: WongBoI guess if you made 3/4 of what someone else made for the same job,.
More creative use of stats by the WH. Just pick the
worst numbers.
Fact: "the gap narrows to 91 cents for every dollar 'if you control for life choices'..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-white-houses-use-of-data-on-the-gender-wage-gap/2012/06/04/gJQAYH6nEV_blog.html
Is that fair?
Would you accept it and roll over?
Yeah, didn't think so.
Keep trying.
Quote: WongBoSo let's say it's 91/100.
Is that fair?
Its progress. Women haven't even been able
to vote for a hundred years yet, things take
time. Progress is progress.
Quote: EvenBobI don't get the binder comment, why is it a big deal? Is binder
a code word for something?
Its not the best way to say what he was trying to say. If you were a speech writer/adviser would you recommend him making his point this way? Probably not, whether you think it is or not, there are women who will find this remark offensive. He is trying to say I want to hire women in these high profile roles etc.., but to some it comes off as saying, "We had to go out and look for highly qualified women since none came to us. It is really hard to find qualified women for these jobs, we had to keep a special binder with the ones that are qualified because they are so hard to find"
You are free to agree or disagree with that interpretation, and I'm sure he didn't mean to come off as offensive, but that is how it was interpreted by some, especially women.
Obama's story about his grandmother was terribad as well. Neither of them answered this question well.
Leonard (to Howard): Will you stop saying "coitus"?
Sheldon (to Raj): That would be coitus interruptus.
Quote: NareedI really enjoyed the Big bang Theory reruns. I hadn't seen the pilot in over two years. Funny thing Howard rather than Sheldon saying "coitus." Not to mention Sheldon making this joke:
Leonard (to Howard): Will you stop saying "coitus"?
Sheldon (to Raj): That would be coitus interruptus.
You mean you weren't watching baseball?????? I'm shocked--SHOCKED, I say!
Quote: rubixxcube
You are free to agree or disagree with that interpretation,
Talk about nitpicking, this has to be at the top
of the most ridiculous things I've heard in
a presidential election. Talk about the stink
of desperation. Maybe they can get Big Bird
to talk about it in an ad..
Quote: FarFromVegasYou mean you weren't watching baseball?????? I'm shocked--SHOCKED, I say!
Baseball is the game where the fans get drunk out of sheer boredom? Or is that golf?
Quote: NareedBaseball is the game where the fans get drunk out of sheer boredom? Or is that golf?
Baseball fans don't need a reason to get drunk!
I can watch poker (zzzzzz...) but not golf. It's sad to think it's more interesting to watch people sitting around than an actual sport, huh?
Quote: WongBoOh I thought that was NASCAR...
They come to the event drunk at Nascar. They
don't come to drink, they come to pass out.
Quote: WongBoIf men could get pregnant you would be able to buy abortifacients pills in every restroom vending machine in the country.
Wouldn't be a need. Men would see the responsibility of a child and plan ahead. If a woman sleeps around and is not in birth control, she wanted to have a baby. Birth control pills are obtainable and inexpensive.
Quote: AZDuffmanMen would see the responsibility of a child and plan ahead. .
Spit-take!
Quote: WongBoIf men could get pregnant you would be able to buy abortifacients pills in every restroom vending machine in the country.
I don't know if why your family status is or your sex or orientation kids etc... but when I went to get snipped (my choice as it is safer than tubal ligation), my wife was required to sign off on the paperwork. That sounds like women making decisions about my reproductive rights (sniff sniff). Its about power Wong, plain and simple. You made it clear in an earlier post you had an issue with the Catholic Church's view on condoms. Do you think condom use will increase when you can roll down to the convenience store and get day after pills like aspirin...it wont because it feels better without condoms and their not 100%, so "f*ck that" your daughter or son will say - "skip the condom and just take the pill"...that is what will happen over time
however
Making abortions illegal would be a dumb idea IMO, you'll never hear me advocate that. Encouraging better family planning, yes that is important. Our society is on a bad path... if you have kids( especially a daughter) you probably worry more as I do. I have told my daughter she CAN DO ANYTHING she wants but she CANT DO EVERYTHING. The myth of the superwoman is just as false as the myth of the super man.
Quote: AZDuffmanWouldn't be a need. Men would see the responsibility of a child and plan ahead. If a woman sleeps around and is not in birth control, she wanted to have a baby. Birth control pills are obtainable and inexpensive.
Quote: AcesAndEights
Dude, thats just frightening.
Quote: Scotty71I don't know if why your family status is or your sex or orientation kids etc... but when I went to get snipped (my choice as it is safer than tubal ligation), my wife was required to sign off on the paperwork. That sounds like women making decisions about my reproductive rights (sniff sniff). Its about power Wong, plain and simple. You made it clear in an earlier post you had an issue with the Catholic Church's view on condoms. Do you think condom use will increase when you can roll down to the convenience store and get day after pills like aspirin...it wont because it feels better without condoms and their not 100%, so "f*ck that" your daughter or son will say - "skip the condom and just take the pill"...that is what will happen over time
however
Making abortions illegal would be a dumb idea IMO, you'll never hear me advocate that. Encouraging better family planning, yes that is important. Our society is on a bad path... if you have kids( especially a daughter) you probably worry more as I do. I have told my daughter she CAN DO ANYTHING she wants but she CANT DO EVERYTHING. The myth of the superwoman is just as false as the myth of the super man.
I didn't have to sign anything when my husband got snipped. I don't know what's up with your doctor.
Quote: FarFromVegasI didn't have to sign anything when my husband got snipped. I don't know what's up with your doctor.
I have heard of doctors refusing to snip a person if they are not a certain age. May be state laws or an ethics code.
Fwiw the people who make the "if men could get pregnant...." seems to be made by women who wish they were men or men who wish they were women.
Quote: AZDuffmanI have heard of doctors refusing to snip a person if they are not a certain age. May be state laws or an ethics code.
Fwiw the people who make the "if men could get pregnant...." seems to be made by women who wish they were men or men who wish they were women.
If this snide remark is directed at me, I can assure you I have no desire to be a woman.
Your original answer to it was extremely naive, bordering on absurd,
so I am not surprised that you are now trying again...
Still failing, still sexist, still clueless...
I stand by the comment.
I am nearly 100% sure that if by some fluke of nature
it were possible that a man were to wake up pregnant tomorrow
He would be seeking an abortion before noon.
Quote: WongBoIf this snide remark is directed at me, I can assure you I have no desire to be a woman.
Your original answer to it was extremely naive, bordering on absurd,
so I am not surprised that you are now trying again...
Still failing, still sexist, still clueless...
I stand by the comment.
I am nearly 100% sure that if by some fluke of nature
it were possible that a man were to wake up pregnant tomorrow
He would be seeking an abortion before noon.
I stand by my comment. Take from it what you like.
I stand by that men are more logic based in decisions and responsibility so if your silly comment was true men would be far less likely for an unplanned pregnancy. If you could today make a male birth control pill you would make billions.
How in all of his logic and responsibility, does a man end up on the hook for child support for eighteen years?
Quote: AZDuffmanI stand by my comment. Take from it what you like.
I stand by that men are more logic based in decisions and responsibility so if your silly comment was true men would be far less likely for an unplanned pregnancy. If you could today make a male birth control pill you would make billions.
That pill is in development :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19281690
I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader if they think men are more or less likely to take the pill than a woman.
Quote: AZDuffmanI stand by that men are more logic based in decisions and responsibility so if your silly comment was true men would be far less likely for an unplanned pregnancy.
Yeah sure, that's why prisons are much more full of responsible men to women (5 to1 or around), teenage boys have the highest car insurance rates.
What are you basing your premise on?
on MSNBC, of undecided voters, were both
swayed to vote for Romney after last nights
debate. Thats not possible, didn't they see
Obama showed up last night?
Quote: thecesspitThat pill is in development :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19281690
I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader if they think men are more or less likely to take the pill than a woman.
I would have been suprised if it wasn't. Still I have wondered why it has taken so much longer.
Will men be "more responsible" to take it? Show me a man who knows someone paying child support and I will show you one who will take it--and without demanding someone else pay for it.
Quote: AZDuffmanI would have been suprised if it wasn't. Still I have wondered why it has taken so much longer.
Will men be "more responsible" to take it? Show me a man who knows someone paying child support and I will show you one who will take it--and without demanding someone else pay for it.
By that analogy, I'll show you a woman who knows someone whose has a kid and deliquent baby father and is struggling to cope, and I will show you one who will take it. So thus we can solve the whole problem. In fact, there can't be an issue at all! Why would we need any debate on birth control...
Not that I really understand why there's an issue with paying for the pill from health insurance. The commonest form of birth control in the UK costs about 2.50 pounds a month on prescription to the NHS. It's such a small cost it could be paid by the end user or the insurance agency and no-one should blink. But they appear to cost a lot more in the US. Why is that, I wonder?
Patently the idea that showing others a warning does not work. Women -bear the child and tend to be the ones more likely to raise it-, but them as an example doesn't seem to make people go out and pay for the pill and take it, en masse. I think you underestimate the ability of people to make rational long term decisions all the time, especially when sex is involved. Human's aren't 100% rational.
I guarantee the male pill will be expensive, and therefore will not take off... why would it, the female pill is cheaper and more available right now (I didn't say it will fail, just it won't suddenly take of like say... Viagra did). I could be wrong. We shall see.
| Region | Obama | Romney | Margin |
|---|---|---|---|
| East | 52 | 48 | O+4 |
| Midwest | 52 | 48 | O+4 |
| South | 39 | 61 | R+22 |
| West | 53 | 47 | O+6 |
Quote: EvenBobTwo focus groups, one on Fox and the other
on MSNBC, of undecided voters, were both
swayed to vote for Romney after last nights
debate. Thats not possible, didn't they see
Obama showed up last night?
I'm glad to see a post about the actual debate somewhere in the weeds that have grown in this thread.
Romney doesn't hate woman, he doesn't want them to be back in the stone age (the MUSLIM extremists do, if you want to find someone who does), and, while his statement was imperfect (as every man or woman is), he championed adding women to his staff when he was governor. He has some positions that some folks might not like but fighting him with comments about Big Bird and Binders is pretty damn weak.
President Obama is in a bad position--he actually has to defend his entire record instead of cherry-picking the accomplishments of his term in office. The press never really called him to task for his shortcomings but the debates are bringing them out. It actually may have been better for him had they have been addressed earlier because we have a tendency to put issues out of our mind once they are discussed in the news. It happened, it was reported, it is over...
Of course, Romney can screw up all the words about what happened in Libya but the folks know that the President is the ringmaster over what is a huge debacle. A video? 14 days? TV appearances blaming the video? If ANYONE here says this is NOT a weak spot for the President at a very bad time, I'm saying that they are an idiot. (If that personally insults someone, I don't give a rip...it is time to stop ignoring the President's shortcomings as a leader. Vote for him if you must, but he is not going to suddenly become a good President!)
Quote: thecesspitBy that analogy, I'll show you a woman who knows someone whose has a kid and deliquent baby father and is struggling to cope, and I will show you one who will take it. So thus we can solve the whole problem. In fact, there can't be an issue at all! Why would we need any debate on birth control...
Not so much. Women have more of a natural instinct to reproduce than men do. Seen it happen where all their friends are having kids and they just decide it is time. And this may be cynical, but the family-court laws in the USA are biased against males. In many states, child support is a simple formula, a % of the guys pay. 1-2 kids and a woman gets a nice bonus. Add in all the government programs and even more bonus.
Quote:Not that I really understand why there's an issue with paying for the pill from health insurance. The commonest form of birth control in the UK costs about 2.50 pounds a month on prescription to the NHS. It's such a small cost it could be paid by the end user or the insurance agency and no-one should blink. But they appear to cost a lot more in the US. Why is that, I wonder?
The issue is *forcing* the insurers to cover it. If an insurance company sees benefit to covering the pill, let their underwriters tell the management the benefits, then write the policies. Myself I have no need for such a policy so should not have to pay for it. Let the market decide.
Quote:Patently the idea that showing others a warning does not work. Women -bear the child and tend to be the ones more likely to raise it-, but them as an example doesn't seem to make people go out and pay for the pill and take it, en masse. I think you underestimate the ability of people to make rational long term decisions all the time, especially when sex is involved. Human's aren't 100% rational.
I guarantee the male pill will be expensive, and therefore will not take off... why would it, the female pill is cheaper and more available right now (I didn't say it will fail, just it won't suddenly take of like say... Viagra did). I could be wrong. We shall see.
Humans are not rational. But the way it seems to happen is this. Guy and girl start seeing each other. If you are a guy and want to take responsibility, you can get snipped or use a condom. Many guys don't want to get snipped because they want to have kids later in life, or at least have the chance. Condoms are, well, inconvienient in the spur of the momment. So the woman says, "don't worry, honey, I will take care of it!" The guy assumes she will. Eventually she "forgets" to take the pill that day.
More than one woman has let herself get pregnant to get a guy. I am not being cynical there, if a person does not believe that they are fooling themselves.
Quote: RonCVote for him if you must, but he is not going to suddenly become a good President!)
You don't get it. It could be Daffy Duck in office and
the worst president of all time. The Lib's would still
vote for him because they don't care about the country,
they care about their hatred of the Right.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe issue is *forcing* the insurers to cover it. If an insurance company sees benefit to covering the pill, let their underwriters tell the management the benefits, then write the policies. Myself I have no need for such a policy so should not have to pay for it. Let the market decide.
There's probably other items on the policy you have no need for. But I don't disagree with the market deciding. It may be that the best way to deliver quality insurance is to provide a series of benefits for all, regardless of sex (so your prostrate exam is covered as well as her HRT). I've said before, and said it again, that the US neither lets the market play, or lets it be a single-provider service, and this is the problem in your health care. Romney-Care being ObamaCare version2.0 will be a huge failure on his part if he gets in.
I do go back to my question... why does the pill cost upto $50/month on some plans, whereas it costs the NHS $5 in the UK?
Quote: thecesspitThere's probably other items on the policy you have no need for. But I don't disagree with the market deciding. It may be that the best way to deliver quality insurance is to provide a series of benefits for all, regardless of sex (so your prostrate exam is covered as well as her HRT). I've said before, and said it again, that the US neither lets the market play, or lets it be a single-provider service, and this is the problem in your health care. Romney-Care being ObamaCare version2.0 will be a huge failure on his part if he gets in.
I do go back to my question... why does the pill cost upto $50/month on some plans, whereas it costs the NHS $5 in the UK?
I would prefer the ability to customize a plan, though I concede it would be hard to do a full-buffet plan. At some point you have to bundle. I strongly support the option of insurers to offer "men's" or "women's" plans only. As to cost of the pill, I do not know the individual drugs not the exchange rate BP$5 equates to, but Britan has price controls and the USA does not. Pill companies will thus develop with the USA in mind with other places getting the benefit of extra production.
It came out after the Sandra Fluke Circus that you can get birth control for <$10/mo USD in many ways, not subsidized.
Quote: AZDuffmanI would prefer the ability to customize a plan, though I concede it would be hard to do a full-buffet plan. At some point you have to bundle. I strongly support the option of insurers to offer "men's" or "women's" plans only. As to cost of the pill, I do not know the individual drugs not the exchange rate BP$5 equates to, but Britan has price controls and the USA does not. Pill companies will thus develop with the USA in mind with other places getting the benefit of extra production.
It came out after the Sandra Fluke Circus that you can get birth control for <$10/mo USD in many ways, not subsidized.
I can understand male/female split (prepare yourself though for controversy if there is a different in price, but I'm sure you expect it). It will also differ on age, no doubt. Risk factors would also come into play, in a full free market system (which RomneyCare isn't). I don't have a problem with that at all (what sort of goddamned liberal am I, hey?). I still have a preference for fully socialized medicine (which ObamaCare isn't).
I meant $5 US dollars. The most common packages cost around 2.49 (UKP) for a month according to the NHS websites... and there's a wide variety of suppliers. I'm not sure all of them are sold in the US. The UK has prescribed more expensive pills, so I don't think this is merely an issue with price controls (all the companies are welcome to walk away, obviously). Sub $10 makes sense then.
The UK had (I think it was changed) weird rule where razors where not subject to sales tax (being classed as an essential item) but sanitary products were (being classed as a non-essential good). But the pill is free, on prescription.
Quote: thecesspitI can understand male/female split (prepare yourself though for controversy if there is a different in price, but I'm sure you expect it). It will also differ on age, no doubt. Risk factors would also come into play, in a full free market system (which RomneyCare isn't). I don't have a problem with that at all (what sort of goddamned liberal am I, hey?). I still have a preference for fully socialized medicine (which ObamaCare isn't).
The precedent for differing prices is car liability and life insurance. Though there would be outcry, I agree there.
Quote: KeyserWhy on earth would anyone want British healthcare ??? They are a great example of how not to do it.
Suppose you own a funeral home?
Quote: AZDuffmanSuppose you own a funeral home?
That's a very offensive comment.
Quote: KeyserWhy on earth would anyone want British healthcare ??? They are a great example of how not to do it.
Yeah, I've never had any success with British Healthcare. It was absolutely lousy all the times I've been there. (This is sarcasm).
Quote: KeyserMy wife has family there. The experiences that they have had with the healthcare system there is simply garrish.
I have family there, and am from there. Experiences I have had with the healthcare system there has been from average to good. It;s saved the life of at least one relation, provided excellent palliative care in another experience.
My limited experience with the Canadian system has been slightly better. I have never used a US hospital, so I cannot tell you if it's like Nirvana or not. And, bugger it, it was free at the point of use and there was no fiscal worry. I don't claim it is best in the world. I do claim it is effective. I've used it on occasion, and not dead yet.
So there's my anecdotal evidence. Hopefully you will now change your mind, as I can provide far more of it (of course not, I wouldn't expect you to either).
Quote: thecesspitAnd, bugger it, it was free at the point of use
Free? Really? Nobody pays the doctors and nurses
and hospitals?
Do you know how idiotic it sounds when somebody calls
socialistic healthcare 'free'? Thats like saying the kids
go to public schools for free in the States. They aren't
free at all, I pay for them twice a year with my property
taxes.
partially.....
When I am asked to moderate, I will
only do it on the condition that the
microphones get turned off at the
end of 2 minutes !
And yes, I'm looking at YOU Mr.
Romney.
Quote: EvenBobFree? Really? Nobody pays the doctors and nurses
and hospitals?
Do you know how idiotic it sounds when somebody calls
socialistic healthcare 'free'? Thats like saying the kids
go to public schools for free in the States. They aren't
free at all, I pay for them twice a year with my property
taxes.
FREE AT THE POINT OF USE.
Duh!
