Dream dealer
I didn't go with much bankroll, so I didn't play the tables, just a bit of video poker. Next time, I might keep an eye out for her and take some cash for the tables.
Quote: CrystalMathI just went to a casino in Blackhawk (CO) and I watched a dealer dealing 3 card poker. She was paying the play bet when she didn't qualify. I also saw her count chips incorrectly. Later, I watched as she dealt Switch, and she paid when she got a 22.
I didn't go with much bankroll, so I didn't play the tables, just a bit of video poker. Next time, I might keep an eye out for her and take some cash for the tables.
Can't blame you for that. Better take advantage while you can, I doubt she will last long making those blatant of errors.
(Theoretically of course, assuming you played and won a reasonable sum)
Quote: CrystalMathI just went to a casino in Blackhawk (CO) and I watched a dealer dealing 3 card poker. She was paying the play bet when she didn't qualify. I also saw her count chips incorrectly. Later, I watched as she dealt Switch, and she paid when she got a 22.
Dream dealer?
Sounds like a nightmare, unless of course you're more than happy to take dirty money that you do know you did not legimately win.
How you act in full knowledge of what you know is right, and still let the wrong results and the errors occur - so as long as it was in only your favor - with your blessing and bragging says a real lot about you, so as long as it was in your favor. How much did you take and keep with joy and delight? You left that part out.
You were in a position to actually help a break-in dealer, but instead you kept quiet and did nothing as you advocating participation in a gaming-industry gang rape of a break-in dealer.
Fabulous, and you seem damn proud of it. A crying shame.
That you would openly post such unethical behaviour about yourself on the Internet is astounding.
You work in this business, if a dealer were fleecing you, that is, the shoe is on the other foot, you'd be outraged and crying bloody murder.
Thank God my mathematician is CRM.
I respectfully disagree with you this time, Dan. I would contend that the onus is on the casino to ensure proper training of employees...or job termination/re-assignment before they hit the floor.
I had a green BJ dealer paying me 2:1 on Naturals (only happened twice with him) when the house was 3:2.
I'm taking it my friend, sorry. I'm not being compensated to teach the guy his payouts, but there are people there who are...
Quote: Mission146Quick post, mobile.
I respectfully disagree with you this time, Dan. I would contend that the onus is on the casino to ensure proper training of employees...or job termination/re-assignment before they hit the floor.
I totally understand your position on this M146, and I agree with the casino opertor's responsibility and involvement, but what I was being specific about was a person's personal responsibility of being:
a) the gambler, or;
b) the gaming industry worker, and espescially:
c) one who is both.
Quote: Mission146I had a green BJ dealer paying me 2:1 on Naturals (only happened twice with him) when the house was 3:2.
I'm taking it my friend, sorry. I'm not being compensated to teach the guy his payouts, but there are people there who are...
When at a table, we are not there to teach. He didn't have to teach anything. What I am saying is that if ANYONE takes money that he knows darn well he is not entitled to, he committed a transgression. Now, if we return incorrect change (let's say change of a $20 when you paid with a $10) at a 7-11 or a Speedy Mart, we can also pocket that wrong money by also saying, "Well, it was the cashier's responsibility to do her job," and that's true, too.
So this is not about teaching anything to anyone.
It is about taking dirty money, incorrect money, "wrong" money - and when you know it was wrong.
It's not about being a teacher. It's about being a man.
suspension, he'd have a
hayday with this thread!
Quote: ten2winIt's a good thing EB is on
suspension, he'd have a
hayday with this thread!
Yup. Bob and I would be crossing swords on this, and I am glad he can't post. We'd just be swatting flies.
But again, my point is you either knowingly take wrong money, or you reject it, and if you do take it, it would behoove you to be mum about it.
Quote: CrystalMathI just went to a casino in Blackhawk (CO) and I watched a dealer dealing 3 card poker. She was paying the play bet when she didn't qualify. I also saw her count chips incorrectly. Later, I watched as she dealt Switch, and she paid when she got a 22.
I didn't go with much bankroll, so I didn't play the tables, just a bit of video poker. Next time, I might keep an eye out for her and take some cash for the tables.
"And that is just what these hustlers do. They go from casino to casino looking for weak dealers like lions look for weak antelope."------Sam "Ace" Rothstein, President, Tangiers Gaming Corp.
Quote: PaigowdanI totally understand your position on this M146, and I agree with the casino opertor's responsibility and involvement, but what I was being specific about was a person's personal responsibility of being:
a) the gambler, or;
b) the gaming industry worker, and espescially:
c) one who is both.
My only responsibility at that table is to be entertained and try to win. Besides, pointing it out and making a scene could be worse for the dealer's job prospects. Maybe he'll realize his error on his own.
Quote:When at a table, we are not there to teach. He didn't have to teach anything. What I am saying is that if ANYONE takes money that he knows darn well he is not entitled to, he committed a transgression. Now, if we return incorrect change (let's say change of a $20 when you paid with a $10) at a 7-11 or a Speedy Mart, we can also pocket that wrong money by also saying, "Well, it was the cashier's responsibility to do her job," and that's true, too.
So this is not about teaching anything to anyone.
It is about taking dirty money, incorrect money, "wrong" money - and when you know it was wrong.
It's not about being a teacher. It's about being a man.
It's the same thing. It would be the responsibility of the business to make sure its employee can count/handle cash.
I'm not at 7-11 to win money, though, so I would give it back in that situation if I realized it before I left. Casino games are games where the casino also makes a wager, part of that wager is that the dealer doesn't screw up the Rules/Payout, just like it is on me to make sure I get my 7:1 on Any Craps. There is no game or wager about pumping gas and getting a pack of smokes.
I will say if I have left the 7-11 and then realize it, I am not going back. I would then be using my fuel and time (taking a loss)» to fix their mistake.
Quote: AZDuffman"And that is just what these hustlers do. They go from casino to casino looking for weak dealers like lions look for weak antelope."------Sam "Ace" Rothstein, President, Tangiers Gaming Corp.
Good quote from a movie, and it is actually what casino managers and shift managers say also.
While I too say this quote, speaking of such players, - I would never want to be the subject of this quote, to be spoken of in such a way, nor would I speak of my own casino/gaming industry behavior in this way.
"Man is a gaming animal. He must always be trying to get the better in something or other."---------Charles Lamb, Essays of Elia, 1823.
Quote: PaigowdanDream dealer?
Sounds like a nightmare, unless of course you're more than happy to take dirty money that you do know you did not legimately win.
How you act in full knowledge of what you know is right, and still let the wrong results and the errors occur - so as long as it was in only your favor - with your blessing and bragging says a real lot about you, so as long as it was in your favor. How much did you take and keep with joy and delight? You left that part out.
You were in a position to actually help a break-in dealer, but instead you kept quiet and did nothing as your participated in a gaming-industry gang rape of a break-in dealer.
Fabulous, and you seem damn proud of it. A crying shame.
That you would openly post such unethical behaviour about yourself on the Internet is astounding.
You work in this business, if a dealer were fleecing you, that is, the shoe is on the other foot, you'd be outraged and crying bloody murder.
Thank God my mathematician is CRM.
I did not play. The players at the 3cp table corrected her themselves. At the Switch table, there were no rack cards and nothing on the felt describing a push 22. I told the player that she paid him incorrectly an nobody batted an eye. He played for about 5 minutes and left a little up, and he had no clue he was playing at an advantage. The post was more about how the dealer didn't understand the rules and somebody could have taken advantage. Plus, where was the pit boss? Surely this wasnt her first day. CRM is a great mathematician and self professed AP.
Quote: PaigowdanYup. Bob and I would be crossing swords on this, and I am glad he can't post. We'd just be swatting flies.
I'm not going to comment on this thread at all. And I usually have your back, Dan, when you're being unjustly attacked when you weren't provoked...
That being said, if Bob were still on here, he'd have every right to swat away and there would be nothing wrong with it. The difference (for those of you who still don't seem to get it): in the previous thread, PaigowDan hadn't posted anything about anything and the entire purpose was to get Dan riled up. This time, CrystalMath (the OP) was starting a thread that Dan chose to post in. For you newer members, you can bring up whatever you want and you'll get an earful on the issue.
Back to your regularly scheduled 1 vs 100...
Quote: CrystalMathI did not play. The players at the 3cp table corrected her themselves. At the Switch table, there were no rack cards and nothing on the felt describing a push 22. I told the player that she paid him incorrectly an nobody batted an eye. He played for about 5 minutes and left a little up, and he had no clue he was playing at an advantage. The post was more about how the dealer didn't understand the rules and somebody could have taken advantage. Plus, where was the pit boss? Surely this wasnt her first day. CRM is a great mathematician and self professed AP.
Doesn't matter. I mean, it does NOT matter.
1. The Gaming Industry has one hell of a reutation to uphold, and one hell of a bad reputation to defend, primarily coming from "shot-takers" who are accusing the gaming industry of the same malfeasance that they commit. And do not confuse "Your past AP history" versus posting fresh and current positions that are hostile to casino operators and their hard-working dealers, - and to take advantage of these struggling new dealers, who are struggling to advance from the lowest level. Looks horribly, professionally, in the gaming industry, especially on the Internet. People who wish to advance in the gaming industry take no steps to advocate openly dirty play or to disgrace struggling break-in dealers, - who may be very fine down the road. Six years ago I broke in in Laughlin, Nevada, as a pure break-in dealer of such a nature. Do this day, I make mistakes (MUCH fewer), but I am human, as are all dealers.
2. You got Roger Snow (Shufflemaster), Earle Hall (DEQ), IGT, Williams/WMS, Bally's, MGM Resorts, Boyd Gaming, Station Casinos, et al, keeping up on the industry and its innovations and key personnel by trolling FaceBook and WizardofVegas. Same with their Human Resources departments. You can't apply for a JOB without HR checking out your Facebook page, no less this very industry-specific site. We all stand naked when we post, and I'd be the first to tell you that I've put my foot in my mouth so many times I floss with shoelaces. THINK!
3. CRM is staying at the Fiesta Henderson, and bought in with Huge Black while I was dealing dice tonight, no less. He exhibited ZERO advantage play, ZERO anti-dealer, anti-casino operator posture, he was a SAINT. And this was aside from me being pulled aside by my SHIFT MANAGER telling me "CRM" was spotted as being present in the pit, and that "we of course expect him to be on his best behaviour," to paraphrase things. Of course he did. He played slots and made prop bets with a collegue after I got off work. He was totally a saint. This is a small business, and the gaming industry is a very small town.
4. It ws not about "dealer 'x' " understanding the rules, it was about you calling her a "dream dealer" instead of a "break-in dealer who clearly needed help," and in regards to your claim that "somebody could take advantage," - well, you do not want it to sound like you!
Edit: let me ask this: If you apply for a job in the gaming industry and they check your FaceBook page, and you're advocating advantage play to the point of recommending taking advantage of an innocent break-in dealer who could get fired for it or cause trouble for her or her casino, it would look very bad, and be a malicious thing to do. Same on any internet site, especially a gaming-industry related site such as this.
Quote: PaigowdanDream dealer?
How much did you take and keep with joy and delight? You left that part out.
You were in a position to actually help a break-in dealer, but instead you kept quiet and did nothing as you advocating participation in a gaming-industry gang rape of a break-in dealer. Fabulous, and you seem damn proud of it. A crying shame.
That you would openly post such unethical behaviour about yourself on the Internet is astounding.
Before you chastise a fellow forum member, why don't you go back and read his original post again. He said he "watched her deal 3 card poker" then
"watched her pay on a 22" he says nothing about playing at her tables, in fact from what I read it seems very clear that he did not. Don't call him unethical for doing the perceived "right thing" and not playing these games with an advantage when he clearly had the opportunity. Having the chance to make dirty money and passing by, I don't see anything wrong with that. And casino GUESTS are there for recreation, it is not our job to be making sure casino employees are doing their assigned duties by procedure, especially when we aren't even playing at the table. The original poster came to the casino for an enjoyable playing session, witnessed a couple dealer mistakes from a distance, and moved along. A floor person and the eye in the sky are being paid to ensure that that game is being played properly, a passerby of the table is not. Floor incompetence isn't his concern, it should be managements.
I watch 3cp and see people betting the play bet without even looking at their cards or I see players bet the play on a J high. Should I interject and let them know what the correct strategy is?
Quote: winmonkeyspit3... The original poster came to the casino for an enjoyable playing session, witnessed a couple dealer mistakes from a distance, and moved along....
No, actually he didn't, and that is the issue at hand here. IF he had just done this, then I'd say, "fine no problem, go in peace." Wouldn't even post, in fact.
He is a Gaming Industry employee who advocated taking advantage of:
1. A break-in dealer struggling to make it, thereby jeopordizing her job and welfare; Lord knows of the possible suffering she'd go through if she lost a brand-new job she had hopes on, and was otherwise advancing well enough aside from this thread.
2. A casino operator, who has a reputation to maintain, while mentioning the state and town of the casino, being specific enough to isolate the casino, and to demean it.
3. Demeaning a MAJOR game distributor and its licensed and patented product in terms of reliability and game protection - Shufflemaster's Three Card poker - who could later be a possible employer of Crystalmath, as they are an employer of mathematician's "CRM's" VERY fine services.
Quote: winmonkeyspit3A floor person and the eye in the sky are being paid to ensure that that game is being played properly, a passerby of the table is not. Floor incompetence isn't his concern, it should be managements.
True, but that's on them ALSO to boot in terms of additional trouble, so his adding of this post may have gotten them into trouble also; this is instead of alerting them to the situation as it happend at the time, - or doing nothing, and NOT advocating taking advantage of a specific casino! This doesn't absolve how a gaming industry employee handles a real-world situation. Even if CrystalMath did NOTHING to help at the time, for him to later broadcast and advocate taking advantage of this situation - at a casino operator's property (with state and town specifics), and its clearly struggling break-in dealer, is the issue at hand for a gaming industry employee.
Quote: CrystalMathYou're right, I should have posted in a different light.
Yes, true, we all make mistakes, and we learn from them. Lord knows, (and as my wife does), there are horse-whipping scars on my own ass, and I'll be the first to admit this. [well, not literally...]
Quote: CrystalmathI haven't played a table game in 10 years. I love them, I love the math, I love knowing the correct strategy, I love watching people play, and I always want to try to understand what keeps a person sitting at a table. I actually wanted to see how the players reacted to a push 22.
Best Strategy for any particular game was not discussed. You went straight to the "take advantage" juice against a dealer and casino operator. We already know how the average player will react when offered free and wrong - dirty - money in any situation, be it in a casino, a 7-11, or from a bank error that they may think they can get away with. You, Crystalmath, discussed not how you'd react not on a push-22, but on a "wrong money error" in your favor against a casino operator or distributor; you are to be of a higher standard than this, a "non-EvenBob" standard, so to speak.
Quote: CrystalmathI watch 3cp and see people betting the play bet without even looking at their cards or I see players bet the play on a J high. Should I interject and let them know what the correct strategy is?
No, unless you are at the table AND are in action with them in a round of play, and it is welcome by them. But, You may ALWAYS mention to the dealer that an error occured, especially if a player protests that you "took free dirty money" from them. Just tell them. if you are in action at a gambling table, that it is your business since you are playing there in a round of play with money on the line, - and if they wanted to get their hands on some easy wrong money, then they could stick up a 7-11.
If you are spending time hovering around casino tables watching other people play, then something is wrong, and it is NOT research, unless you take out your wallet and buy in and play for real. The mathematician "CRM" takes out his wallet, drops $800 onto the table (between rounds of play, of course), and says, "Change $800," entering a game to do his research, or his play.
I seldom watch other people play, even if it is on a table game that I had designed, and is running live at a casino. I buy in and play! If I need to research a game, I use this site to study games, or watch games without comment, especially one of recommending abusive advantage play against a bad dealer (which would be useless anyway, because any horrible dealer would NOT give specification play on a game design!)
Quote: PaigowdanGood quote from a movie, and it is actually what casino managers and shift managers say also.
While I too say this quote, speaking of such players, - I would never want to be the subject of this quote, to be spoken of in such a way, nor would I speak of my own casino/gaming industry behavior in this way.
Well, it is kind of true. I have been the beneficiary of the weak dealer. He forgot to take my don't before he paid the pass. This is the about first rule of craps dealing--take before you pay. So what did I do? I placed it again on the don't! Sadly, the boxchick was not weak and told him to collect the next loss. But if this was my regular casino I would have noted who he was and played darkside at that table on my next sighting.
Even on the party-nights the weak and strong dealers are sorted out. I've been places on a few nicer gigs just because of how I show up and handle myself, while others get called mainly when there is a shortage.
Quote: Paigowdan
If you are spending time hovering around casino tables watching other people play, then something is wrong, and it is NOT research, unless you take out your wallet and buy in and play for real. The mathematician "CRM" takes out his wallet, drops $800 onto the table (between rounds of play, of course), and says, "Change $800," entering a game to do his research, or his play.
I seldom watch other people play, even if it is on a table game that I had designed, and is running live at a casino. I buy in and play! If I need to research a game, I use this site to study games, or watch games without comment, especially one of recommending abusive advantage play against a bad dealer (which would be useless anyway, because any horrible dealer would NOT give specification play on a game design!)
Dan, why are you opposed to someone watching a table game? As long as they aren't back counting I see no harm in this. Certainly if someone asked that I not watch I would go elsewhere, but when I gamble I like to play in sessions and I often walk around, chat with idle dealers, and very frequently watch a game for a while. I think that I have even learned from it as I have seen so many people make a modest buy in, win a lot of money, then overbet and give it all back. I see nothing wrong with coming to the casino and watching. Even if the OP never bets, I'm sure he has bought a drink, had a snack, bought gas from a casino owned station, bought ciggarettes or spent money in some way shape or form, making him a patron. He should do as is wishes.
Quote: winmonkeyspit3Dan, why are you opposed to someone watching a table game? As long as they aren't back counting I see no harm in this.
I am NOT opposed to this at all. But it isn't research unless you REALLY play. Really. It's like a virgin writing a sex manual: no action = no knowledge of its real action. Most of my new game research at an unnamed game distributor (okay, you guys already know it is DEQ systems...) involves two-hour sessions playing the games in person with DEQ employees, usually Steve or Sean, just about all of whom are former dealers (with me still being a current dealer at Stations [Casinos, Inc.])...trust me, I do not buy the argument of research....it sounds like something I'm trying to tell my wife when I come home at 6AM...
The real reason why game distributors such as Shufflemaster, DEQ systems, and Galaxy have REAL casino table game showrooms is because when reviewing a new game, we pound the crap out of actually dealing and playing these proposed new games late at night, or mid-day unannounced. Reviewing a new table game is like reviewing a new girl for a legal brothel, it is all "get you Ace up, and your face [card] down, we need to see how this girl performs in some real action before we commit, - this review session is now underway....[pound, pound, pound...]" Watching a game? you'll get an idea if an existing game is popular by noting if it has players or not, but nothing on its details, you'd get better results by both playing the game first hand, in conjunction with interviewing players, instead of stalking a casino pit. Every time. Total BS....
Quote: winmonkeyspit3Certainly if someone asked that I not watch I would go elsewhere, but when I gamble I like to play in sessions and I often walk around, chat with idle dealers, and very frequently watch a game for a while. I think that I have even learned from it as I have seen so many people make a modest buy in, win a lot of money, then overbet and give it all back. I see nothing wrong with coming to the casino and watching. Even if the OP never bets, I'm sure he has bought a drink, had a snack, bought gas from a casino owned station, bought ciggarettes or spent money in some way shape or form, making him a patron. He should do as is wishes.
He may indeed, and you can watch all you want at most casinos. Lord knows Surveillance, the slot techs, and the pit crews already do this for $7.25-$11.25 an hour and know just as little about table games or slots, aside from the minimal needed for their jobs. So this not any exceptional gaming research, as it is like pretending to learn about Wall Street Money Operations simply by watching bankers walk arond downtown New York City in their Brooks Borothers suits from a nearby park bench eating peanuts also. Same thing. Likewise, this doesn't constitute any real new game "research." What you're talking about is holding a drink, buying some peanuts, walking around a casino, looking at table game players play, buying a burger at a food court, yada, yada, yada, - all of which may help the casino, true....but it ain't table game research to form any game opinions on. In fact, no table games opinions were formed here in this thread, but positions on taking advantage of casino operators and their breakin-in dealers, really.
So, I am not opposed to anyone watching a table game, nor am I opposed to anyone watching bankers walk around Wall Street, but I don't consider this research. I deal 35 hours a week dealing all casino games at a Las vegas casino, I review and report on new games for a gaming distributor for 15 hours a week for gaming approval and distribution, and spend 10 hours a week either designing new games or reviewing my own table games designs, and 5 hours a week now gambling myself. I spend another 7 hours a week at this non-forsaken forum. (And this is why my marriage is so very fine. I spend an hour a day talking with her, and five hours a night sleeping with her out like a light, and she handles the money, aside from my gambling stipend.)
So..I don't and can't waste a second calling a shot-taking casino thief a thief, or a bad gaming attitude a bad gaming attitude, nor a gaming employee such a Crys.M. being misguided for having a gaming attitude that needs to be updated. IMHO.
Yeah, be a real man and steal chips from the guy next to you when he's not looking. Same logic, he should protect his chips.
And try and sit next to a poker player who carelessly lets you look at his cards.
Quote: buzzpaff" But again, my point is you either knowingly take wrong money, or you reject it, and if you do take it, it would behoove you to be mum about it. "
Yeah, be a real man and steal chips from the guy next to you when he's not looking. Same logic, he should protect his chips.
And try and sit next to a poker player who carelessly lets you look at his cards.
No, different logic here.
Thou shall not steal.
Quote: PaigowdanI am NOT opposed to this at all. But it isn't research unless you REALLY play. Really. It's like a virgin writing a sex manual: no action = no knowledge of its real action.
WRONG! You don't have to be a heroin addict to know it's harmful. You don't have to nurse the deathly ill to know that cancer needs to be stopped. I think you're usually right about personal ethics regarding mispays - though I'm not quite as hardcore as you are, but you're wrong about this one particular point. Sorry.
Quote: WoldusWRONG! You don't have to be a heroin addict to know it's harmful.
Bad Analogy. Because...you do have to be a heroin addict - to know and to describe the power of the drug's allure.
It is also a bad analogy because it is like saying: "I don't have to see or experience a piece of art, to know if it is good or bad art. I can read a report to know if it is "not bad," and this may be true. But "not bad" is not good enough. You have to know if it is really good, and that requires a trial, a consummation.
In designing or selling a casino game, you also do have to know the power of the game's strengths, and the extent of its weaknesses, in order to prep the game to be a success in the market, and to know how it plays as a gambler. You have to play it, it has to be "consummated."
This is pretty much like being a market researcher for Pepsi or Coke, testing a new soda drink, and saying, "well, we KNOW how it tastes by reading a newspaper article on it, - so we don't have to taste it before we formulate it and ship it out!" Bullshit.
A "good" casino game is not about knowing if it is harmful or not harmful, or if it is "good" or "bad" by reading some reports or anecdotal evidence as to its worth. A casino product has to be "tasted" by gambling experience and action to know if it is good, much in the same way that new soda products from PepsiCo or Coca-Cola has to be taste-tested, - to see if it tastes good, and can be sold.
It is not enough to know if it is bad - like cancer or heroin, as you say.
We have to know if it is good by real experience.
We can "know" if a casino product is bad by reading reports that indicates if it is "bad." then it is dismissed out of hand without further consideration.
But we cannot know if a casino product is good, - or "tastes good" - without actually tasting it in some sort of actual play.
So...your analogy of "herion being bad or harmful without doing it" is absolutely irrelevant, because we don't need to know if "this heroin is bad or not," we need to know something else, that is, if "this heroin is really gooood or not" - and THAT, my friend, requires a gambler's taste test and some field trials.
And as for cancer being bad, you also don't know need to be a cancer victim to know that cancer is bad.
But You DO need a field trial on a cancer medicine - to see if "it is good, and if it works, and gets results."
Now that is different, and is what we are talking about here. We know if it is bad without trying it, and all bad games on reports don't even get tried out. But games that are "good on reports" have to also get played, - to see if they are good "in play" too. That's different, and an additional step.
Now Woldus, perhaps you can describe to us your own experience in describing casino game developement and design, - no less field trials of casino games, - to authenticate your claim that you don't need to test casino games, to know if they are good or bad, because we all know that heroin and cancer are "bad"
and harmful. That we already know. What we are looking for here is something different, that is, if they are good in action, - which requires it to be played in action.
This is because we are searching here for something different, to see if something is good, - and not bad.
We all know that a bad casino game is "bad," - when we see a bad description of it, without having to try it.
But we do not know if the smack is good - without actually doing it and trying it out for ourselves, to decide if it should be release as "good to try out."
Woldus, you might not "get" the necessity of having a trial, - to test if something is good.
But trials are necessary to see if something may be good in the real world, even after it had passed the paper "not bad" test.
And ALL of the games we play on the casino floor had gone through these trials.
Not to see if they are bad or not. That we already know before we trial them.
But to see if they are really good, and that's very different.
Sorry.
Quote: WoldusI read all that and I still disagree...but don't have the energy to dissect it all piece by piece. Happy to just disagree as friends and take a nap.
What's the point? In the short time I've been on these boards, these arguments with PGD never seem to produce anything worthwhile. This isn't a jab at you, Dan, just an observed fact. When it comes to advantage play and dealer mistakes, his opinion is quite clear, and I don't think it's going to change.
I'm all for fostering discourse for the betterment of mankind and whatnot, but it seems like an instant standoff the minute the discussion comes up.
I can't blame him for his opinion.
Ya know what? I agree with him. And frankly, I'd have a hard time sitting at the tables with that bad dealer without saying something. Oh, sure, if a dealer make a rare error in my favor, I'll probably ignore it, and chalk it up to an assumption that I was wrong about something. That assumption could very well be correct because I don't visit casinos enough to be sharp enough to know exactly what the payouts should be etc.
But sitting at a table where the dealer is constantly making mistakes? Yeah, I'm gonna say something. Because, frankly, I don't think it would be fun to take money I didn't win.
For the record, I HAVE spoken up in the past. But only after I see a dealer make a mistake the second (or third) time. I certainly don't want to get a dealer in trouble because I said something that turns out to be not true, so I'll wait until I can verify it.
What's a "CRM" ?Quote: PaigowdanThank God my mathematician is CRM.
Quote: hook3670Once again I have to respectfully disagree with Dan on this point. In a game where it is you versus them you use any legal tactic to win. If you are paid incorrectly well that is the casinos fault. Its not like I reached into the tray and took money out, it was given to me. Look this hapens in games all the time in competition. I view my gaming experience as a competition between me and the casino.
Right- and for most people- they enjoy the occasional mistake in their favor which increases their trip enjoyment- which over the long run can be a net-positive for the casino.
Dan will say that it isn`t the same because it doesn`t involve money but it can mean the difference of a team advancing to the playoffs,which means more money.
