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mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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February 17th, 2011 at 9:58:42 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed



2) If a TG woman without ovaries, uterus, etc, is not a woman, then a genetic female who has undergone a radical hysterectomy is not a woman, either. I don't see how you can escape that logic (of course you will with some unreasonable fantasy and half-truth, I've full faith in you). There are millions of women like that, who've needed to have their ovaries, tubes and uterus removed for reasons tha go from cancer to ectopic pregnancies, cysts, etc etc etc. By your faulty illogic, they were women at some point, but then they ceased to be. God knows what they are now, though, as they're clearly not men.



Nope. Never said that. In fact, I said the opposite--a person of a given sex who is mutilated is still a member of that sex, whether the mutilation occurs as a result of surgery necessary to save the life of a patient, or as the result of a voluntary "sex change operation" (or accident, violence, etc. etc.). A woman can't change into a man; a man can't change into a woman.

Now spew some more, Nareed.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Nareed
Nareed
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February 17th, 2011 at 10:11:21 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Nope. Never said that. In fact, I said the opposite--a person of a given sex who is mutilated is still a member of that sex, whether the mutilation occurs as a result of surgery necessary to save the life of a patient, or as the result of a voluntary "sex change operation" (or accident, violence, etc. etc.).



You're setting up a double standard. You claim an MtF sex change requires the rpesence of a full, functional complement of female reproductive organs (for no reason at all). Therefore any individual without such a full set of organs is not a woman. Then you turn around and say an XX female without female reproductive organs is a mutilated woman, even though she is identical in genital equipment, and incidentally in hormonal balance, to a non-woman transsexual.

That's too stupid even for you.

Quote:

A woman can't change into a man; a man can't change into a woman.



Not when you redefine woman to an impossible stadard to meet.

Hmmm. The mkl (aka tiny, little man) fallacy: set up an exception for that which you don't like, then claim that exception is proof of the exception, except when it's inconvenient.

I'm sorry for your nephew. he has you in the family.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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February 17th, 2011 at 11:12:02 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I'm not current on whatever terms are being used this week in the world of transgenders. My point remains, that I articulated a simple truth about sex change operations and you reacted negatively to that because you don't like that truth. You're trying to shoot the messenger. Like Nareed, you are hostile to everything and everyone because you feel picked-upon by the world. Therefore, I realize that your anger at me is simply displacement. Therefore, I forgive you for it.



Ha ha ha, this comment is highly amusing. The term 'cisgender' has been in use for about 15 years. I'll grant it's not a common word, but sometime I like to use uncommon words as it amuses me. And occasionally catches other people in a trap. What I normally do when I find a word that I don't understand is to look it up. I'd expect a teacher to do much the same, or at least work out the root of the word if he had an IQ of 150.

I didn't actually react negatively to your truth, but you seem to have decided that anyone who even slightly disagrees with you are picked upon. I certainly don't feel picked upon. My original post on this topic was two-fold :

1) stating that calling a transgender person "it" was rather rude
2) that there's a difference between pure biology and gender identity

YOU decided to transpose a theory on my post about my behaviour, the group I belong to and how mean and pitiful I am. You then play the martyr by forgiving me for my transgressions (not cisgressions, ho ho ho). Gee. Thanks.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Nareed
Nareed
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February 17th, 2011 at 11:15:38 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

I'd expect a teacher to do much the same, or at least work out the root of the word if he had an IQ of 150.



Probelm is an IQ of 150, or even higher, is no good if you don't use your brain first.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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February 17th, 2011 at 11:29:46 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I think you've pointed out a common misperception. Changing your genes won't do anything. Organs and structures are already there, they won't change because the genes change. Suppose you lose an arm in an accident. You still have all the genes for that arm, but that won't make it grow back.

(cut)

That's what I mean also when I say genes don't matter as far as sex changes are concerned.

You could take a cell from my body, change the XY pair to an XX and grow a clone, sometime in the future and if we ever grow human clones. BUt what good would that do to me? All that scenario is good for is the Clone Song :)



I don't think I totally agree with you here, but I also don't think my agreement or not matters one little bit to your health or happiness.

The genes layout the blueprint of the biology, while the expression of those genes results in a phenotype (excuse me if I get the biology wrong, I'm learning about it). However, the blueprint can't change. And for things like forensics and body recovery and identification, those things do matter (and as you state, XX and XY isn't all there is to it). Someone born with a certain set of genes will die with them, while their phenotype and expression of those genes can and will vary over time.

For almost all other cases, it doesn't, and whatever works for each person is what's important. It doesn't matter to me how someone else wants to label you, what matters is how YOU want to label yourself.

You may have been be born a man, but how you want to live your life now is much more key to your mental health and happiness with yourself. Gender identity certainly is NOT about the genetics.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Nareed
Nareed
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February 17th, 2011 at 11:43:39 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I'm not responsible for your unhappiness at being born in the wrong body.



My unhappiness is about having to suffer jerks like you.

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YOU, however, are responsible for the way you spew it at the world.



I'm not spewing anything at the world, I'm directing vitriol at you. Perhaps your enormous IQ isn't enough to comprehend that.

Quote:

P.S. I do, however, understand that your anger at me is simply displacement from your anger at the world. So you are somewhat less to blame than otherwise. It is still possible, I hope, for you to change your attitude about and hatred for the world that made you born in the wrong body.



My anger is at you and you alone. I take full responsibility for it. You're a jerk, an idiot and a thoughtless bastard. It's not that you act without tact, as some have suggested, it's that you act contrary to tact, which can only mean you come by and try to hurt people on purpose. Worse than that, you come here, insult me and many other TG people, and you claim to be doing so out of support. You then offer your pity as alms and claim to be magnanimous. You don't offer any reasons, any facts. Just your opinion to be taken as revelaed truth. And if someone posts facts to disprove your opinion or prove your errors, then you dismiss it all, logic-chop your way through, set up doubel standards, and contradict yourself in a manner that would embarrass a trekkie.

If you can't see all that, you're nothing but a pompous, blind, self-important fool without the sense God gave a gnat. Hell, if you can't see any of that you're nothing.

So let me be prefectly clear:

I'm not angry at the world. I'm not bitter about who I am. I'm happy I've figured out what I want and need to do and am doing it. I'm angry at you because you're a thoughtless, insensitive prick. Got that? Or was that too simple for your massive brain?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
DorothyGale
DorothyGale
Joined: Nov 23, 2009
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February 17th, 2011 at 12:32:48 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

So let me be prefectly clear:

I'm not angry at the world. I'm not bitter about who I am. I'm happy I've figured out what I want and need to do and am doing it. I'm angry at you because you're a thoughtless, insensitive prick. Got that? Or was that too simple for your massive brain?

Nicely said. I blocked this guy a long time ago. It has made my life here much easier.

Ms. D.
"Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!"
Nareed
Nareed
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February 17th, 2011 at 12:41:43 PM permalink
Quote: DorothyGale

Nicely said. I blocked this guy a long time ago. It has made my life here much easier.

Ms. D.



Oh, I blocked him shortly after he first started posting. He was hard to take even then. But he posts so much I wound up being directed to the tops of threads much of the time. I thought I'd give him a chance, too, but I've learned better.

I'll block him again, I expect.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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February 17th, 2011 at 12:43:12 PM permalink
I wish I could block entire sections of the site. I'd probably argue less on non-gambling topics and save myself time.

I often ignore whole sections anyways. And whole people too.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Nareed
Nareed
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February 17th, 2011 at 12:51:20 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

I don't think I totally agree with you here, but I also don't think my agreement or not matters one little bit to your health or happiness.



Thanks. I appreciate that. But do feel free to bring up diagreements if you want.

Quote:

The genes layout the blueprint of the biology, while the expression of those genes results in a phenotype (excuse me if I get the biology wrong, I'm learning about it).



I did pretty well in highschool biology, but we dnd't see much about genetics then. what i know is largely incomplete and based on popularizations. In any case, I think we're in agreement on this point.

Quote:

may have been be born a man, but how you want to live your life now is much more key to your mental health and happiness with yourself.



That's another interesting missperception: that sex change surgery is of paramouont importance. It is for some, certainly, but for many of us it's one thing among many involved in living. An imortant thing, but not the end-all and be-all mundanes tend to think.

Quote:

Gender identity certainly is NOT about the genetics.



Not that we know. I mean, there has to be some cause. Maybe it's in some set of genes, maybe it's an environmental factor, in-utero or elsewhere. Point is no one really knows. it does appear to have a biological basis, beyond that there's too little research.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

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