Who should leave, me or Jerry?

Quote: sunrise089

QFT!

"Quantum Field Theory" according to Wikipedia... "Quoted for truth" otherwise ...

Only 3 of 47 poll respondents agree with Mr. W. that neither should be kicked out for good ... I bet Mr. W. was one of those polling with the 3, so only 2 out of 46 agree with you, Mr. W., and your extraordinarily lenient 5 day ban.

--Dorothy

Quote: DorothyGale

... BTW, I hope some of you caught the "Wizard of Oz" on TBS last week ... I was featured ...

Since the point of this thread is apparently moot, and since it is already off-topic, I'll carry it a little further...

Dorothy, as an in-the-know authority, can you tell us the Wizard of Oz's full name? And why he shortened it? Just a little trivia item I stumbled across recently.

Quote: DorothyGale

I bet Mr. W. was one of those polling with the 3, so only 2 out of 46 agree with you, Mr. W., and your extraordinarily lenient 5 day ban.

I didn't vote.

Quote: Wizard

I didn't vote.

That may be, but I hope you see the sentiment that most of us would prefer that their suspension be more permanent, or at least longer.

It's understandable that you already told them they out for five days, so no extension. Fine.

But I then hope that they are kept on a short leash when they come back.....

Quote: Wizard

I didn't vote.

Did Diebold make the voting app? You have 60 votes from 50 members.

I must say I am mixed about a perm ban however I more or less stopped checking this site due to the fact almost ever thread was being taken over by the 2.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

That may be, but I hope you see the sentiment that most of us would prefer that their suspension be more permanent, or at least longer.

It's understandable that you already told them they out for five days, so no extension. Fine.

But I then hope that they are kept on a short leash when they come back.....

Yes, I recognize the will of the masses, and will keep it under advisement. We'll see what happens on Friday when they are allowed to return.

Quote: Wavy70

Did Diebold make the voting app? You have 60 votes from 50 members.

It's a multi-select vote... you can choose all 4 options if that's your desire.

Yeah, how did we end up with 58 votes from 50 members? I know I was only able to vote once.

*edit* ok, i posted this about 10 seconds too late... see above...

Quote: TheNightfly

Yeah, how did we end up with 58 votes from 50 members? I know I was only able to vote once.

*edit* ok, i posted this about 10 seconds too late... see above...

You can only cast your vote once however you can select all choices if you want before you cast the vote.

Quote: Wizard

Yes, I recognize the will of the masses, and will keep it under advisement. We'll see what happens on Friday when they are allowed to return.

I'm not a fan of either, but it would be a loss to see them go. I get sick to death of people trying to run the forums they're on, it never ends. On every forum under the sun, somebody upsets somebody else and then wants them gone. I'm not kidding, I've seen really active forums die dead as a doornail when all the 'objectionables' went away. Turns out hating them and complaining about them was the glue that held everything together. Watch what you wish for. Saying Jerry and MKL hijack every thread is patently ridiculous. If you don't like them, block them. How hard is that.

Oh hell, they're gone and we can't stop talking about them? Enjoy it while it lasts. Who has some good gambling stories? We went to The Borgata Sunday, had a great time. I gave Mrs Mosca $200, and she went over and put $100 in a WoF machine, hit the button twice, and wondered why she didn't have any credits left.... it was a 25 DOLLAR machine, honey, not a 25 CENT machine! Too bad she didn't get a spin, I say. THAT would have ROCKED THE HELL. I played all kinds of crazy shit, lost some at BJ and won some at craps, broke even on 10 hands of Let it Ride Bonus, then went to Four Card Poker and got CREAMED. I had $35 left, out of $600 (900 total bankroll, 600 for me and 300 for her... hell, it was ALL my money to start), and it was ten minutes to noon, we figured we were going to be watching some football that afternoon (more on that later)... I put 30 in the $5 WoF and hit a $500 spin, and we were back in biz. We walked around playing little stuff, $20 in any stupid slot that caught our eyes; won $100 on "Sal's Used Cars", lost on something that said 7s were lucky... I guess to be lucky they all have to come up in a row, or something. Lost $100 on one "In the Money" (Mrs loves that machine), won $100 on the second spin on another "In the Money". We went back to the tables and had some luck, sat and laughed with the Let it Ride players, playing minimum bets; hit another 3 of a Kind on the bonus, that's the third one in 2 sessions. Too bad no one is here to tell me there's no such thing as "luck", I'll go on thinking that that was lucky as hell. I had a quarter up on the bonus, total win was $840. With the pressure off, Mrs Mosca played a little more slot action. At 7PM, when it was all said and done, we tallied up; we entered the casino at 10 AM with $900, and left at 7PM with $853. And THAT is a good, fun day in the casinos. (It's a good thing I didn't watch the football games; I'm from Pittsburgh, and I'm a Steelers fan. That game would have freaked me. Watching it Monday night on DVR [instead of SF/Ariz] gave me palpitations, and I knew what was going to happen!)

Anyhow, screw 'em. Let's talk numbers, and good times, and not take the fact that we're all kinda different from each other personally. I'd sit next to anyone here (now) at a card or dice table, and enjoy the time tremendously. It'd be rip-roaring.

Quote: EvenBob

If you don't like them, block them. How hard is that.

I've done the blocking thing and it doesn't do anything except make big gaps in the thread that have now been highjacked. By the time anyone other than those two makes a comment, it's so far from what was said a page or two ago that the whole thread is derailed and the OP's question or comment is lost in the confusion. That of course is the whole point of children like these two doing what they do... they have no interest in listening to what anyone else has to say apart from reading just enough to make some nasty remark or to puff up their own ego. Not only this forum but any forum would benefit from the removal of agitators like that and I say this forum will flourish and grow much faster without these two weeds. It seems to be the general concensus around here and it's good to see the majority speak up in defense of this great meeting place. Imagine you're walking around a nice park on a sunny day with some good company, having a wonderful conversation when suddenly you come across two guys cursing and swearing at each other at the top of their lungs... and then they follow you around for the rest of the day.

Quote: TheNightfly

it's so far from what was said a page or two ago that the whole thread is derailed and the OP's question or comment is lost in the confusion.

SO WHAT!!!! Haven't you ever had a conversation before? 6 people are talking and 5min later its gone off in a whole new direction. Do you pop up and say 'NO! Keep it where we started!' Of course you don't. The most interesting and informative threads are often those that go 'off topic'. Whats so fricking sacred about the topic? We aren't teaching a class, we're having a discussion. I've seen threads on other gambling forums go over 400 posts and they wandered everywhere and everybody had a rocking good time. Why do people want to control EVERYTHING. Sheesh...

Personally, my opinion is that both Jerry and MKL should completely cool it and grow a pair. I mean honestly, MKL and Jerry are like an old married couple fighting and it never ends. Oh my god, the attacks are getting personal, well boo hoo. MKL, the attacks will stop if you simply ignore them. Jerry, you seem to be immune to the attacks and I sense you like to provoke and argue anyway and will parry with every single attack... it takes two to tango however, and we can choose whether to engage anyone in any kind of debate.

That said, both MKL and Jerry have had valuable points and I don't think either of them should go. The problem is that MKL seems to have the time to contribute on every single contribution to the forum (he overcontributes, in my opinion), and either MKL is chasing Jerry or EvenBob is chasing MKL or Jerry is chasing MKL, so every single thread gets polluted, and the ones that aren't contributed to by MKL or Jerry drops off the list (and they may be very valuable).

I wish that MKL and Jerry could simply not provoke each other and react.

Quote: EvenBob

SO WHAT!!!! Haven't you ever had a conversation before? 6 people are talking and 5min later its gone off in a whole new direction. Do you pop up and say 'NO! Keep it where we started!' Of course you don't. The most interesting and informative threads are often those that go 'off topic'. Whats so fricking sacred about the topic? We aren't teaching a class, we're having a discussion. I've seen threads on other gambling forums go over 400 posts and they wandered everywhere and everybody had a rocking good time. Why do people want to control EVERYTHING. Sheesh...

I think if being off topic was the only problem that would not be a problem.
The main problem is they both seem to have some psychotic trigger on each other that just sinks to very base levels.

But I might take the action on them being the same person.
Now that would be funny. Years ago on a band website one of my buddies started stalking himself in the forum out of boredom.

Quote: EvenBob

SO WHAT!!!! Haven't you ever had a conversation before? 6 people are talking and 5min later its gone off in a whole new direction. Do you pop up and say 'NO! Keep it where we started!' Of course you don't. The most interesting and informative threads are often those that go 'off topic'. Whats so fricking sacred about the topic? We aren't teaching a class, we're having a discussion. I've seen threads on other gambling forums go over 400 posts and they wandered everywhere and everybody had a rocking good time. Why do people want to control EVERYTHING. Sheesh...

Yes Bob, I've had one or two conversations in my time. Generally those conversations have a topic. Just like this thread has a topic. I open this thread because I know what the topic is and I choose to read what people have to say about this topic. The result of the topic (who should leave?) is that both MKL and Jerry were temporarily barred. Now, people are talking about whether or not they should remain barred or whether or not they might just revert to their old habits if they return. The discussion has touched on whether what they've done is harmful to the forum and how people feel about the two of them. That's the topic of this thread and I'd like to think that when I open this thread in a day or so I will read more about what people have to say on this topic. If I open this thread and someone is talking about how they've got a nasty itch and that it's beginning to smell a little rancid, I'd wonder what happened to the topic in the thread title and I'd have to back up and find out where it all went sideways. On the other hand if I saw a thread that said, "weeping sores and how to treat them" I'd probably not open it up unless I had a particualrly nasty open wound. If some people find it too much trouble to make the effort to open up a new thread for a new topic then I'd suggest that they should give it a try rather than simply go off on a tangent and derail the thread. It's like talk radio - in a 60 minute span there might be 6 segments and 4 guests might be interviewed but the host usually has a topic for each segment or guest and informs the audience as to what that topic will be. The people who call in will have a point to make about the topic at hand and those who simply go off on a rant about some random idea usually get cut off... and the host comes back to the topic.

Yes Bob, I do find it that bothersome. You obviously don't. We can't please everyone all the time I guess.

Quote: EvenBob

I'm not a fan of either, but it would be a loss to see them go.

I'm glad it's fun for you. It should be fun for us. Perhaps a "secret ban", which would be the Wizard secretly banning them, but everything would look the same to them, and they would go on trading jabs for 6 months before they noticed. But they wouldn't actually appear on the board we see in the meantime, though we could check on them..

Or how about they have to permanently go by the names "Wanker 1" and "Wanker 2". That I could go for.

Or how about a Martingale system that works. Banishment that is 1 day the first time, 2 the next, 4, etc., We can all watch the progress.

At any rate, under the current system they're still likely to get enough rope to hang themselves eventually. I'll let them worry about it.

Quote: TheNightfly

Yes Bob, I do find it that bothersome. You obviously don't. .

In every forum ever created, there is always always ALWAYS people who get all tied up in knots because people wander 'off topic', like they've just blasphemed against god almighty. As long as its still interesting, wheres the sin? Who's been wronged? WHO CARES? I suspect the people who are bothered by it the most always colored in the lines when they were kids and now mow their lawns in exact straight lines. And they never let the peas get into the mashed potatoes on their plate, that would be ruining the credibility of both.

Ah reductio ad absurdum.

The key point "as long as it's still interesting". JL and MKL arguing about shaved legs and Oregon for the 97th time is not interesting.

Anyways, I have a solid lock this week on the Detroit Lions game, and I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on how to change the wiring in my apartment to put timer switches on the extraction fans.

I have found the board to be much easier to read without them bickering about who has a bigger pair, better job, more important job, etc. I don't give a darn about any of that stuff; I want to read interesting comments about gambling experiences, odds, habits, and other things. I don't even mind veering away from the original topic if the discussion is interesting. Conversations often do that. There is a difference between going "off-topic" and being totally derailed. If I am in a series of conversations which go the way threads they invade often do, I leave. I have kind of done the same thing here--I don't visit as often because it is not as interesting place to visit when every thread becomes a shouting match between two people...

If they come back, I'd like to see them remain civil and actually contribute to the board instead of dragging it down. We'll see.

How about letting them back on the board, but allowing them to post in one thread ONLY, set up by the admins?

That way, if you want to see what they have to say, you can go to that thread. If they have something to say on any other topic on the board, they can post it there. And, if you want to ignore them, you just don't go to the thread.

Quote: EvenBob

In every forum ever created, there is always always ALWAYS people who get all tied up in knots because people wander 'off topic', like they've just blasphemed against god almighty. As long as its still interesting, wheres the sin? Who's been wronged? WHO CARES? I suspect the people who are bothered by it the most always colored in the lines when they were kids and now mow their lawns in exact straight lines. And they never let the peas get into the mashed potatoes on their plate, that would be ruining the credibility of both.

I don't think that people are put off by them because they had one or two online arguments. I think that people are put off because there's been a long, steady diet of unproductive, worthless, and uninteresting posting by those two. Those arguments color everything else they do. Whether or not they're smart or have interesting things to say, they've disqualified themselves from any real influence or credibility. I think that frustrates them so they 1) try harder to have influence, and 2) take it out on each other.

And, if some of these posts are truthful, it's actually stopped some people from checking the site, which helps nobody. I get that Wizard can't keep all of the people happy all of the time, but that's not really the case with these posters, is it?

I don't think that there's been any shortage of chances for those two. Anything that befalls them as far as bans is something they've brought on themselves.

As owner, Wizard just has to make decisions on what best serves his site and the best use of his time and money as admin. It's his call. If you don't like his decisions, go somewhere else or start your own site.

Don't mind me. I'm just testing a new signature.

But to stay on topic, even if Jerry and mkl both leave, it's only a matter of time before someone else goes all disruptive on the forum.

For me, it's so refreshing that we can have a sane talk about this. Yes, this thread is about them, but it is also reasonable, with opinions that are thought out, disagreement that is expressed in a non-abusive way, and progress. That's what a thread should be.

My problem with these guys is that it really does make me not want to participate. Any thread is subject to their derailment. And once derailed, the content of the thread dies, even when their posts are blocked (which I do). When I get a pile of "blocked" followed by someone else quoting them and trying to say something to get the thread back OT, then another pile of "blocked" and this happens over and over, I just check out.

My problem is that they think their little issues are important enough to bother the Wiz about, to take his good time, to get him involved at all. Let them call each other up. Let them meet and work out their issues. Let them send e-mails back and forth. Let them act like adults in the world of adults.

Yes, there will be more of these guys to come, that's why Mr. W.' heavy hand is what will save this board, or not. I am for more and harsher punishment, in general, of misbehavior on these boards. The obligation to keep the conversations reasonable and OT is what makes a board successful or not. To build a community requires police and a justice system, because there is crime, and there has to be punishment.

Wow, I haven't made a post this long in like, forever. It must be the breath of fresh air around here.

--Dorothy

Bob -

Taking topics off-course is a problem on forums because each topic has a title, thoughts are added after lengthy delays, and the entire discussion can be reviewed at any time.

The same cannot be said for a simple verbal conversation that happens in real time, and there is no transcript of that conversation.



That said...

Quote: Nareed

Don't mind me. I'm just testing a new signature.

Sorry to go off topic for a moment...

You probably figured this out, but, there's no need to "test" it. Simply load any page with your post in one window and edit the signature in another. After each edit, reload the page in the other window to check it.

NO forum saves the signature with the post. They all display the current signature when they display the post. The same holds true for avatars and other personal info that appears under a user name in other forums.

As long as I mentioned it... Wiz / JB: Any chance of getting avatars and/or personal info to show up?

Quote: Nareed

But to stay on topic, even if Jerry and mkl both leave, it's only a matter of time before someone else goes all disruptive on the forum.

This forum existed for nearly a year before those two started their nonesense. Does that mean, if permanently banned, that we can hope for at least as long before some other disruptive person show up? Or does it mean that this forum is starting to go mainstream and disruptive people will start showing up more often?

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

How about letting them back on the board, but allowing them to post in one thread ONLY, set up by the admins?

That way, if you want to see what they have to say, you can go to that thread. If they have something to say on any other topic on the board, they can post it there. And, if you want to ignore them, you just don't go to the thread.

I have an idea along this line. I would like the ability to block/ignore entire threads. The recent threads area is small. People talk about topics I don't care about, and it's easy to miss new discussions on things I do care about. But if I could just click a button to never see things that weren't of interest, it'd greatly streamline my experience on this site. Additionally, I/we could just click to ignore the threads that get stolen by bickering children.

Excellent idea by rdw4potus. That would add to my enjoyment of the site, too.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

That said...Sorry to go off topic for a moment...

You probably figured this out, but, there's no need to "test" it. Simply load any page with your post in one window and edit the signature in another. After each edit, reload the page in the other window to check it.

Oh, I know that. I can seek any old post after updating the sig and it will have the new one. I've been mod and admin on boards before, going back to the pre-popular-internet days of dial-up BBSes.

I was just subtly trying to draw attention to it, seeing as most sigs are ignored.

Quote:

This forum existed for nearly a year before those two started their nonesense. Does that mean, if permanently banned, that we can hope for at least as long before some other disruptive person show up? Or does it mean that this forum is starting to go mainstream and disruptive people will start showing up more often?

It's like predicting when the next big asteroid will hit the Earth and cause a global calamity. We don't know quite how many there are, or how close they can come, or how they are being affected even now. It could be years, it could be days. and yes, as the board becomes better known and more people come here, the odds of a replacement for Jerry and/or mkl rise.

No we won't ever see another MKL or JL. They were both unique and special snowflakes (who may come back in)

Quote: thecesspit

No we won't ever see another MKL or JL. They were both unique and special snowflakes (who may come back in)

I find a lot of posts by Jerry and MKL very interesting and a tremendous number of posts by other people as boring as watching my cat lick itself. And gee, maybe we can get TV Guide to print a magazine that has just the 2 or 3 programs that we really like, and ignore the rest. Wouldn't that be great?

Quote: rdw4potus

I have an idea along this line. I would like the ability to block/ignore entire threads. The recent threads area is small. People talk about topics I don't care about, and it's easy to miss new discussions on things I do care about. But if I could just click a button to never see things that weren't of interest, it'd greatly streamline my experience on this site. Additionally, I/we could just click to ignore the threads that get stolen by bickering children.

I was going to suggest the same thing so will merely second the motion. Not that I am trying to tell Wiz how to run his site, but merely some consumer feedback.

Let me add that I am enjoying the peace and quiet. They had gotten like two loud guys in a bar driving everyone else crazy and refusing to talk at a quiet level. Now the bouncer has tossed them for the night. Maybe they find another virtual bar they like better.

Quote: EvenBob

And gee, maybe we can get TV Guide to print a magazine that has just the 2 or 3 programs that we really like, and ignore the rest. Wouldn't that be great?

TV guide can say that The Unit is in syndication on UPN, but when I'm expecting Dennis Haysbert and I get Krusty the Klown you can't really expect me to be happy...

Regarding the site ideas, thanks, but webmaster JB has his hands full with some other projects on Wizard of Odds for now. I think we won't see any new features on this site for at least a few months.

Quote: Nareed

... even if Jerry and mkl both leave, it's only a matter of time before someone else goes all disruptive on the forum.

I doubt they are going to leave. Both of them are still visiting the forum, even though they are prohibited from posting. I just hope there is a change in behavior when they are again active. Their positive contributions were generally negated by the negative atmosphere they created on the forum, and I don't recall but one other member who regularly argued with either of them.

EvenBob and Jerry sometimes tagged on MKL.

Quote: boymimbo

EvenBob and Jerry sometimes tagged on MKL.

I often argued with Jerry (and Bob and some ways with MKL). But not the sort of level of vitriol, and if I did get heated, then I don't think I hurt any feelings. besides which any arguments I have tend to be on the factual side (and I probably bat about 66% on that, at best).

In my experience with other forums, there always seems to be a token member who loves to ruffle feathers, and another member who is easily ruffled by the ruffler. If you remove them, the void will be filled by a by a new pair.

My policy is that all opinions are welcome, as long as they stay within the rules. I'm not going to remove anybody because they get voted out, as if this were Survivor. However, I will be more vigilant in enforcing the rules, including longer suspensions, and splitting threads when a flame war erupts. I have also encouraged both JL and mkl to use the free speech zone more. That is why it is there, to keep the rest of the forum civil.