Palazzo 7-5 blackjack rumor.
I don't see this time being any different if other properties decide to go the same route!
AS Wiz and many others have said. Simply make the CSM games $10 mins and offer 6-5. No serious player plays those games anyway. Then make the $15 and up tables hand shuffled games with 3-2.
I find the lack of understanding of what the public want and what is needed for continual growth in the Vegas casino industry very frustrating and sad.
We need new, fresh people who not only understand finance but also how to marry that with gaming.
Unfortunately all the people are controlled by the bottom lin, their bonusses and ultimately their jobs. Make more money, or else.....is really all they are told!
Sad, sad, sad
Venetian has always been extremely tight with its players. "Classy" just means that they overcharge.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceCome on Wizard. You can't be that surprised. https://wizardofodds.com/games/slots/appendix/3a/
Venetian has always been extremely tight with its players. "Classy" just means that they overcharge.
I don't deny they are stingy with slots, but until now their table games were competitive. The way most casinos are run is really two casinos, one for tables and one for slots.
Anywhere that's not Venetian/Palazzo should have it. $25 for sure, but less than that you'll have to check somewhere other than Wynn/Encore.Quote: RambamI'll be in Vegas next weekend (Thursday through Monday). Staying at Treasure Island. Where can I still find a 3-2 shoe game with low minimums ($25 or less)? Am I out of luck? I should just make more trips to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Guaranteed 3-2. Guaranteed surrender. And only about 1.5 hours from where I live.
Quote: RambamI'll be in Vegas next weekend (Thursday through Monday). Staying at Treasure Island. Where can I still find a 3-2 shoe game with low minimums ($25 or less)? Am I out of luck? I should just make more trips to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Guaranteed 3-2. Guaranteed surrender. And only about 1.5 hours from where I live.
TI has $10 min shoe with surrender, RSA, 3-2, and DS. It may be $15 on weekends but surely there will still be some $10 ones, at least on the CSMs. Mirage offers the same game with $25 min. Encore has $10 weeknight and $15 weekend H17, surrender, RSA, DS. Wynn has it for $15/$25.
If you are willing to go up to $50 min, TI and Mirage have a S17 game during off peak hours that may go up to $100 during peak.
All of this info was accurate as of December.
I know, I know..... it would never happen! :-P
Quote: PokeraddictI don't think Spanish 21 exists anymore in Las Vegas. I didn't see it at Palazzo or Venetian last night or during a survey I did in Dec 2013. The games were still being dealt out of shoes and not CSMs.
Free Bet Blackjack (which may have been what replaced S21) was still paying 3-2, as were the Dealers Angels machines and double deck.
Some observations from last night:
- Idle dealer at $25 min 3-2 DD at Palazzo while 6-5 $25 min shoe game next to it is full
- Dealers Angel machine with 3-2, surrender and S17 was idle next to $15 6-5 games
- All Free Bet tables were full or mostly full
Some players probably don't like double deck blackjack because the dealer shuffles too much!
Most BJ machines continuously shuffle, human-dealt games are dealt from a shoe, which can be counted: unless a player ruins the order of the cards by entering or exiting mid-shoe, plays wrong, etc.
Quote: BuzzardCan't find a link to the article, but here's an excerpt.
You can't blame the casinos for removing the classic 3:2 single-deck games. The house edge is low, and the game is extremely easy for card counters to beat for low stakes (assuming they get away with it). The fact that they are using only a single 52-card deck also means the dealer spends as much time shuffling as dealing, resulting in further loss of casino profit.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2004/04/12/casinos-get-greedy.aspx
Quote: RambamI'll be in Vegas next weekend (Thursday through Monday). Staying at Treasure Island. Where can I still find a 3-2 shoe game with low minimums ($25 or less)? Am I out of luck? I should just make more trips to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Guaranteed 3-2. Guaranteed surrender. And only about 1.5 hours from where I live.
I played a $10 minimum double deck blackjack game that paid 3:2 and hit on soft 17, but didn't have surrender at Treasure Island last week. Sorry I didn't check the other rules.
They would only deal 1 deck worth of cards before a shuffle and there was no re-entry until the shuffle if you sat out a hand at any time.
--helpmespock
Mainstream press picked this up. Business Insider linked to my article about it and Wizard of Odds.
This makes up for that awful article they did titled Math Says You Should Buy A Mega Millions Ticket Right Now, which I took to task in my Ask the Wizard column #284.
Quote: WizardThe point made to me many times is that the Venetian is supposed to a "hotel with a casino, not a casino with a hotel."
It's more of a bed & breakfast than a casino.
They tell themselves that they're the Waldorf-Astoria because it embarrasses them to admit that they have more in common with Circus Circus. A room with 3,000 slot machines is not called a "hotel lobby;" it's called a "casino."
And if their hotel business is more important than their gambling business, that's an even better reason to offer 3:2 blackjack: since the big bucks are apparently made on hotel rooms, offering a decent game of blackjack would have a negligible impact on their coveted hotel room revenue.
Does Las Vegas Sands view their Macao properties as hotels with casinos?
http://www.uspoker.com/blog/las-vegas-sands-triples-house-advantage-live-blackjack-games/7739/
Quote: Pokeraddicthttp://www.businessinsider.com/blackjack-payout-change-2014-3
Mainstream press picked this up. Business Insider linked to my article about it and Wizard of Odds.
Did you notice the article is using the Wizard's calculator [and giving him credit]?
Quote: BuzzardCan't find a link to the article, but here's an excerpt.
You can't blame the casinos for removing the classic 3:2 single-deck games. The house edge is low, and the game is extremely easy for card counters to beat for low stakes (assuming they get away with it). The fact that they are using only a single 52-card deck also means the dealer spends as much time shuffling as dealing, resulting in further loss of casino profit.
I have to disagree with the statements made from that article, Buzzard. Yes, we CAN blame casinos for removing 3:2 and trying to alter the game more in their favor for one thing. The misconception that the game is extremely easy for card counters to beat is not quite true for another. For every competent card counter that is walking out of a casino ahead, there are two pseudoscience half-assed wannabe counters right behind him losing twice that amount. In other words, casinos are making money out of the hype that any fool that can look down and is able to count out that they have ten toes can just make tons of money at the blackjack table. The only thing holding the casinos back on this is their own fears, superstition and paranoia. They believe the hype! They believe it to the extent that they will turn down action that would ultimately be profitable for them!
I have been playing this game for 30 years and for whatever the reasons I've seen a whole lot of people that think they're better players than what they really are for one thing. They watched that movie "21" where in magical fairytale princess land the counter can't lose a single hand if he tried and is pulling down duffle bags full of money. They show how you can be too stupid to understand how banks and safety deposit boxes work (so you stuff the money into the drop ceiling of your college dorm) but smart enough to win piles of money at the blackjack table. Guess what kiddies! It's the movies and casinos all over the land should proudly show that movie in their casino and have the exit doors from the theater leading with a red carpet directly into the blackjack pit!Hahahahaa
I just posted on another thread about how for any lone counter using Hi-Lo, I-18 needs to use a 1-12 spread to even be an issue. Below that they are absolutely no threat to the casino. This assumes they are actually proficient and accurate as many aren't. I've seen people over the years that THOUGHT they were a much better blackjack player than what they really are, so this culls it down further.
Let's get back to the fear and paranoia part. Let's say you are a torch and pitchfork salesman way back in medieval times and sales are down. You go into town and announce to the townspeople the possibility that Dr. Frankenstein up on the hill happens to be creating a monster that will likely come and kill them all unless they are well stocked on torches and pitchforks. Sales go up drastically and the torch and pitchfork salesman can barely keep up with it all. Feed on their fears, hype up the threat to be much more formidable than what it really is. Vendors hocking off things such as "mindplay" to casinos comes to mind, among others as the modern day versions of this. The fear and hype is so strong that casinos are willing to spend $10 to make sure no one walks out with $1.
We can take this fear and paranoia to the next level and add some greed, though. We can not only spend 10-1 on countermeasures but we can also jack up the house edge! The bean counter/CFO mentality says that this will increase profitability (after all that we spend on game protection from those evil counters we have to offset this somehow!) but it has the opposite effect. More than 99% of all your players are NOT card counters to the extent that you need to worry about. They are recreational gamblers that by jacking up the house edge on them you clean them out faster, clearly a short term gain but how does this pan out in the long haul?
If you take a recreational gambler and his money lasts quite a long time, he plays, has fun, and actually walks away ahead sometimes occasionally. He is likely to come back... they have an overall pleasant gambling experience and even though they are being slowly and steadily bled they keep coming back for more. You have a rock solid customer base and a larger volume of business.
Now let's look at the flip side of this where the casino jacked up the house edge, so they can make more money (or so they think)... the customers missed the memo. They weren't told that their $300 will not last for 6 hours of gambling like it used to and that they need to bring more cash now. They still bring that same $300 to gamble with and notice that instead of playing for 6 hours they are cleaned out for their $300 in less than half that time. They never seem to win at this casino anymore. They become a disgruntled gambler that will seek greener pastures and will have no loyalty. Ultimately this plays out and the casino loses a huge volume of business to gain a percentage point of additional advantage and loses horribly in the long run. The volume of business goes down to the extent that gouging out some additional house edge will not make any difference... a downward spiral.
Allow me to lay out the east coast version of this and how it played out in a real life case in point. Trump Plaza in Atlantic City had what could be considered a playable game at one point with 6D, S17, DA2, 1.5 cut off, etc. They wanted MORE MONEY! NOW! So about the same time casinos were popping up all over PA with decent rules (direct competition for AC) Trump Plaza got a brainstorm to make all tables, even in the pit 8D, H17! They were doing a huge volume of business, making money and had one of the better games in AC (not all that hard to do) but got greedy and wanted more. Blackjack players migrated en masse to other casinos but at least they got an extra percentage point just like the whizbangs upstairs predicted! Too bad this tiny sliver of greed cost them 75% of their blackjack playing customer base is all. They shut down their high limit room from there, laid off dealers, circled the wagons and I see many former Trump Plaza dealers in other NJ casinos, in PA casinos, etc. Their shortsightedness cost them dearly and they went from doing well under the circumstances (considering the distressed economy) to dire straits and bordering on closing the place down. PA casinos have jam packed blackjack tables and it's not because they offer the sh*tt*est blackjack game on the planet, hoping someone too drunk to know the difference wanders by and starts playing.
I doubt this cause and effect would be nearly as quick or as easily perceived in Vegas, so the bean counters that dreamed up this 6:5 abortion can sort of cover their tracks with some Enron style accounting to avoid showing they made a huge mistake that will cost them dearly in the long haul, placing blame on things other than poor management decisions.
Quote: BuzzardTarzan, you are arguing with the wrong guy. I was just quite quoting the motley fool. I have been playing bing for 50+ years. Some things never change. Was in a casino recently. 4 BJ tables open, no players, all tables $25 minimum. Asked pit boss why they were all $25. Got the expected answer. "Because it's FRiday night !
Sorry about that, my wording should have alluded to you not being the actual author of the statements. As a matter of fact let me just edit that a bit so no arrows are pointed at you personally! It'll be interesting to see how this pans out for Venetian and Palazzo but I have a good idea on what it'll do to them financially in the long haul unless Vegas gamblers are a lot dumber than Atlantic City gamblers.
Quote: DJTeddyBearDamn. 7:5 is a typo?
I thought you were talking about an upgrade from 6:5.
While not as good as 3:2, 7:5 is a LOT better than 6:5. Mark my words, sooner or later, somebody is gonna change 6:5 to 7:5 and advertise it as "New & Improved".
This could very well be the best prediction in 2014.
