Silver Saddle: Silver Saddle - an adventure by a chip collector
May 5th, 2010 at 9:49:11 AM
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There should be three introductory items for this posting. First, this is not really a review of an establishment, because I do not have enough exposure to give a proper review. It is just more of an anecdote of what I encountered.
Second, I have commented elsewhere that I like to collect a $1 souvenir chip from each casino where I play, and this hobby of collecting has led me to numerous casinos specifically for the purpose of getting the chip, with the actual gaming interest falling to a very distant second place. While this process can lead one to some fabulous resorts (think Wynn or Bellagio in Vegas, or the Greenbrier in WV on which I earlier reported), it also means that one eventually visits some absolute dumps. A few months ago, I became aware that the Silver Saddle Saloon in Las Vegas (a place I had previously not even heard of) has a couple of blackjack tables, so I added it to my list of chips I might get some day.
Third, although the Silver Saddle section of the forum has been, prior to this post, completely empty except for JBs stickies, there have been a couple of threads elsewhere that have mentioned the establishment, in not so favorable terms. One is located in the section reserved for discussing the Western, and the other is a more recent thread under Off-Topic/General Discussion with the title The shabbiest casino in Vegas, which started out discussing the Poker Palace. Neither of those threads has much first-hand reporting on the Silver Saddle it is just presented as a place worse than anything else being discussed, with a few third-hand references for further info. It was characterized as a Mexican cowboy bar with live music and a dance floor.
If you have not previously read those other threads, you might want to take a look at them to get an idea of how bad a place can be. In particular you might follow the link MrPapagiorgio provided in the Western thread to a 2004 article in the Las Vegas Mercury. It includes the intriguing quote: Looking up and down, she concludes, "You probably shouldn't go there. They might kill you."
With that kind of advice being the only thing I could find about the Silver Saddle, even this compulsive chip collector had serious reservations about the risks involved in trying to add that one to my set. However, on Tuesday 4/27/10, I found myself with some free time on my hands, my wife safely ensconced at a coffee shop at the Wynn, and the sun still high in Las Vegas. I figured that if I was ever going to venture into the Silver Saddle, this was the time to give it a try.
The Silver Saddle Saloon is located on East Charleston, just east of Fremont Street, which is not exactly the most chic section of the city. There is a parking lot to the east of the building, and there were fewer than half a dozen vehicles there when I arrived at 5:15 p.m. I recall seeing a couple of rusting pickup trucks, but nothing else stuck in my mind -- didn't see a Lamborghini being handled by valet parking.
Near the front door, there were a number of signs posted, almost exclusively in Spanish, which, as the bard would say, was all Greek to me. I eventually found a couple of lines that I understood. They seemed to suggest that the hours of operation had been cut back to M-Th 5 p.m. to 3 a.m. and round the clock F 5 p.m. to M 3 a.m. Its hell what a bad economy can do to business at a nice place.
Since my arrival was just after the posted opening time, I went in to find the band doing their sound check at about 150 dB, one guy operating the sound board and a second apparently trying to keep the board from being tipped over by the acoustic energy, no one in any of the chairs around the dance floor, and no one at or even behind the bar. Obviously, I was a little early for the action.
I started to look for the rumored two blackjack tables, but I never found them. I heard a guy calling to me from the back of the room and went to see him. He was standing right outside the lone cashier window and had apparently been talking to the lovely young lady behind the bars. He was wearing a black T-shirt that said, Security. He asked me whether it was my first time in the place, and I told him it was. He explained that they check everyone who comes in, as a means of maintaining control, but I looked like I was an all right guy, so I apparently met his approval for entry.
I asked about their blackjack tables and when they were operated, directing my question both to the security guy and the cashier. They replied that because of the economy they only had dealers in on Friday and Saturday nights. I said that I had come in specifically for the blackjack because I collect souvenir chips. The security guy smiled and said, So do I. I told him I like to keep a $1 chip from every casino I visit, and he positively beamed, saying, Thats what I do!
I told them that unfortunately I would not be able to come back on Friday or Saturday night, because I was visiting from NC and would be down in Palm Springs on Friday night and in Laughlin on Saturday night. They both suggested that I could just buy a chip from the cashier to add to my collection. The cashier apologized that their $1 chip was really a metal token, and I explained that I had actually expected that. I did purchase the token, making it the second chip in my collection that does not represent a place that I have actually gambled just a place that I tried to gamble but where they were not prepared to operate the game.
Side discussion: The first place like that was the Hyatt Regency at Lake Las Vegas a few years ago. I heard it was closing, so I went out there one afternoon before catching my plane home. They had their slots operating, but the tables would not open until after my flight time, so I bought that chip, knowing they would be out of business the following week, long before I returned. I experienced the third such occasion the day after I was at the Silver Saddle. I made the excursion out to Pahrump to get the Saddle West chip I was missing. Unfortunately, they were not going to open their tables until night, and staying around would conflict with the Terry Fator show for which I had already purchased tickets, so I bought the Saddle West chip also. Oh, the shame of not sticking strictly to the theme of chips from casinos where I have played.
Now back to the Silver Saddle: I told the security guy and the cashier that I had read about the place on the internet. They were excited to hear they were on the web and asked for the URL, but I couldnt remember. I told them their place had been described as a Mexican cowboy bar. They both laughed and said, Yep, thats what we are. I then told them that the description continued by saying that they had live music (obvious from the rhythmic concussion waves that were bombarding us), a dance floor, and Latino passions that lead to knife and/or gun fights most every night. They both laughed even harder and said, Thats pretty much the way it is here.
I then mentioned that since that was all that I could find out about the place, I had wondered whether it would be safe for me to even come in, being a white guy who doesnt even speak Spanish. The two of them laughed the hardest then, saying that they didnt either: Were just local Latinos, and neither of us speaks Spanish!
I asked the security guy how the language issue worked with keeping control of a hot-blooded, violence-prone clientele. He put on his sternest scowl and said, I dont speak Spanish, but I give them the look and they pay attention to me. I guess it works, but the guy looked as if he weighed maybe 160 and that unless he knows martial arts that I couldnt pronounce, he might have trouble breaking up a fight between two cheerleaders.
I left, and thats the end of my adventure into the Mexican cowboy bar where the advice is, "You probably shouldn't go there. They might kill you." The next day, I had my coffee meeting with the Wizard and told him about it. He was not familiar with the Silver Saddle and commented that he didnt think it was on his blackjack survey. He asked where it was located, I told him, and he said he would have to check it out some weekend when the tables are open. If this forum ceases to include postings by the Wizard, we will know that, He probably shouldnt have gone there.
Second, I have commented elsewhere that I like to collect a $1 souvenir chip from each casino where I play, and this hobby of collecting has led me to numerous casinos specifically for the purpose of getting the chip, with the actual gaming interest falling to a very distant second place. While this process can lead one to some fabulous resorts (think Wynn or Bellagio in Vegas, or the Greenbrier in WV on which I earlier reported), it also means that one eventually visits some absolute dumps. A few months ago, I became aware that the Silver Saddle Saloon in Las Vegas (a place I had previously not even heard of) has a couple of blackjack tables, so I added it to my list of chips I might get some day.
Third, although the Silver Saddle section of the forum has been, prior to this post, completely empty except for JBs stickies, there have been a couple of threads elsewhere that have mentioned the establishment, in not so favorable terms. One is located in the section reserved for discussing the Western, and the other is a more recent thread under Off-Topic/General Discussion with the title The shabbiest casino in Vegas, which started out discussing the Poker Palace. Neither of those threads has much first-hand reporting on the Silver Saddle it is just presented as a place worse than anything else being discussed, with a few third-hand references for further info. It was characterized as a Mexican cowboy bar with live music and a dance floor.
If you have not previously read those other threads, you might want to take a look at them to get an idea of how bad a place can be. In particular you might follow the link MrPapagiorgio provided in the Western thread to a 2004 article in the Las Vegas Mercury. It includes the intriguing quote: Looking up and down, she concludes, "You probably shouldn't go there. They might kill you."
With that kind of advice being the only thing I could find about the Silver Saddle, even this compulsive chip collector had serious reservations about the risks involved in trying to add that one to my set. However, on Tuesday 4/27/10, I found myself with some free time on my hands, my wife safely ensconced at a coffee shop at the Wynn, and the sun still high in Las Vegas. I figured that if I was ever going to venture into the Silver Saddle, this was the time to give it a try.
The Silver Saddle Saloon is located on East Charleston, just east of Fremont Street, which is not exactly the most chic section of the city. There is a parking lot to the east of the building, and there were fewer than half a dozen vehicles there when I arrived at 5:15 p.m. I recall seeing a couple of rusting pickup trucks, but nothing else stuck in my mind -- didn't see a Lamborghini being handled by valet parking.
Near the front door, there were a number of signs posted, almost exclusively in Spanish, which, as the bard would say, was all Greek to me. I eventually found a couple of lines that I understood. They seemed to suggest that the hours of operation had been cut back to M-Th 5 p.m. to 3 a.m. and round the clock F 5 p.m. to M 3 a.m. Its hell what a bad economy can do to business at a nice place.
Since my arrival was just after the posted opening time, I went in to find the band doing their sound check at about 150 dB, one guy operating the sound board and a second apparently trying to keep the board from being tipped over by the acoustic energy, no one in any of the chairs around the dance floor, and no one at or even behind the bar. Obviously, I was a little early for the action.
I started to look for the rumored two blackjack tables, but I never found them. I heard a guy calling to me from the back of the room and went to see him. He was standing right outside the lone cashier window and had apparently been talking to the lovely young lady behind the bars. He was wearing a black T-shirt that said, Security. He asked me whether it was my first time in the place, and I told him it was. He explained that they check everyone who comes in, as a means of maintaining control, but I looked like I was an all right guy, so I apparently met his approval for entry.
I asked about their blackjack tables and when they were operated, directing my question both to the security guy and the cashier. They replied that because of the economy they only had dealers in on Friday and Saturday nights. I said that I had come in specifically for the blackjack because I collect souvenir chips. The security guy smiled and said, So do I. I told him I like to keep a $1 chip from every casino I visit, and he positively beamed, saying, Thats what I do!
I told them that unfortunately I would not be able to come back on Friday or Saturday night, because I was visiting from NC and would be down in Palm Springs on Friday night and in Laughlin on Saturday night. They both suggested that I could just buy a chip from the cashier to add to my collection. The cashier apologized that their $1 chip was really a metal token, and I explained that I had actually expected that. I did purchase the token, making it the second chip in my collection that does not represent a place that I have actually gambled just a place that I tried to gamble but where they were not prepared to operate the game.
Side discussion: The first place like that was the Hyatt Regency at Lake Las Vegas a few years ago. I heard it was closing, so I went out there one afternoon before catching my plane home. They had their slots operating, but the tables would not open until after my flight time, so I bought that chip, knowing they would be out of business the following week, long before I returned. I experienced the third such occasion the day after I was at the Silver Saddle. I made the excursion out to Pahrump to get the Saddle West chip I was missing. Unfortunately, they were not going to open their tables until night, and staying around would conflict with the Terry Fator show for which I had already purchased tickets, so I bought the Saddle West chip also. Oh, the shame of not sticking strictly to the theme of chips from casinos where I have played.
Now back to the Silver Saddle: I told the security guy and the cashier that I had read about the place on the internet. They were excited to hear they were on the web and asked for the URL, but I couldnt remember. I told them their place had been described as a Mexican cowboy bar. They both laughed and said, Yep, thats what we are. I then told them that the description continued by saying that they had live music (obvious from the rhythmic concussion waves that were bombarding us), a dance floor, and Latino passions that lead to knife and/or gun fights most every night. They both laughed even harder and said, Thats pretty much the way it is here.
I then mentioned that since that was all that I could find out about the place, I had wondered whether it would be safe for me to even come in, being a white guy who doesnt even speak Spanish. The two of them laughed the hardest then, saying that they didnt either: Were just local Latinos, and neither of us speaks Spanish!
I asked the security guy how the language issue worked with keeping control of a hot-blooded, violence-prone clientele. He put on his sternest scowl and said, I dont speak Spanish, but I give them the look and they pay attention to me. I guess it works, but the guy looked as if he weighed maybe 160 and that unless he knows martial arts that I couldnt pronounce, he might have trouble breaking up a fight between two cheerleaders.
I left, and thats the end of my adventure into the Mexican cowboy bar where the advice is, "You probably shouldn't go there. They might kill you." The next day, I had my coffee meeting with the Wizard and told him about it. He was not familiar with the Silver Saddle and commented that he didnt think it was on his blackjack survey. He asked where it was located, I told him, and he said he would have to check it out some weekend when the tables are open. If this forum ceases to include postings by the Wizard, we will know that, He probably shouldnt have gone there.
May 5th, 2010 at 10:17:28 AM
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Thanks for the story Doc. Too bad you weren't able to go during 'prime time' though and get the authentic feel of the place, as well as some gaming.
May 5th, 2010 at 10:17:41 AM
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The murder by strangulation of a prostitute in the parking lot of the Silver Saddle a few days ago should tell you that this bar can be dangerous. At the very least you know that surveillance is bad in the parking lot.
Although the odds are that middle aged white guy will be fine here, it is a step more dangerous than just going to a dive. You can go into the Western and you will probably just meet a lot of derelicts.
Silver Saddle has 37 slot machines and 2 blackjack tables that only operate on weekends (I did know that).
Another similar type of bar is Ultra New Town Tavern that (36 slots and two poker tables). Go north on Las Vegas Blvd from Fremont Street, left on Washington Ave, and right on F. Street. This is also a very tough neighborhood.
The 6 year old article in the Las Vegas Mercury was called Rough Bars .
Although the odds are that middle aged white guy will be fine here, it is a step more dangerous than just going to a dive. You can go into the Western and you will probably just meet a lot of derelicts.
Silver Saddle has 37 slot machines and 2 blackjack tables that only operate on weekends (I did know that).
Another similar type of bar is Ultra New Town Tavern that (36 slots and two poker tables). Go north on Las Vegas Blvd from Fremont Street, left on Washington Ave, and right on F. Street. This is also a very tough neighborhood.
The 6 year old article in the Las Vegas Mercury was called Rough Bars .
May 5th, 2010 at 10:17:41 AM
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Man! Talk about putting the Whammy on someone!Quote: DocIf this forum ceases to include postings by the Wizard, we will know that, He probably shouldnt have gone there.
But that was funny...
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 5th, 2010 at 10:53:15 AM
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Quote: pacomartinAnother similar type of bar is Ultra New Town Tavern that (36 slots and two poker tables).
Oh,gees, paco. Now you've got me wondering about my chip collecting strategy. I have no interest in slot parlors, so I never go to them, and that is irrelevant to chip collecting. I go to the California tribal casinos (missing chips from only a couple that I know of in San Diego, Riverside, and Imperial counties), but I haven't collected any chips from the California card rooms. Now you go and post an image of a chip from the Ultra New Town Tavern, which I had never heard of before, and it opens up a whole new category in Nevada. I'm not a poker player, so I'm not sure whether to pursue this area or not. It just plays havoc with my claim to having chips from every casino in Clark county.
I think maybe your comment, "This is also a very tough neighborhood," means I won't be going there or perhaps to any other adventurous gaming establishments.
May 5th, 2010 at 11:01:42 AM
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Ultra is possibly unique in that it has poker but no table games. It is a very tough 'hood. A five bedroom home about a block away sold for $13,500 in January. It is surrounded by empty lots.
It also is one of those few dozen places that has an unrestricted license, but makes less than $1 million per year. If you make less than $1 million you don't report non-gaming income.
To repeat, a restricted license is 15 slots or less, and no table games, poker, or sports book. None of them have casino chips since they only have slots. There are over 2000 of these places in Clark county, and another 1000 throughout Nevada.
Most places like Ultra are inside the city limits, and are very old places. The city doesn't issue these kind of licenses anymore.
There are 177-182 unrestricted licenses in Clark county, and there were 149 in last year's abstract that made over $1 million per year in gaming revenue. Most of them just have slots
THE BEACH 365 E CONVENTION CENTER DR has 16 slot machines, so they went to the trouble to get an unrestricted license for just one additional slot machine. They may be planning an expansion.
I have a list of local's casinos that made over $72 million gaming revenue last fiscal year plus three casinos that opened during the year that will probably exceed that amount next fiscal year. The only one downtown now is Golden Nugget.
It also is one of those few dozen places that has an unrestricted license, but makes less than $1 million per year. If you make less than $1 million you don't report non-gaming income.
To repeat, a restricted license is 15 slots or less, and no table games, poker, or sports book. None of them have casino chips since they only have slots. There are over 2000 of these places in Clark county, and another 1000 throughout Nevada.
Most places like Ultra are inside the city limits, and are very old places. The city doesn't issue these kind of licenses anymore.
There are 177-182 unrestricted licenses in Clark county, and there were 149 in last year's abstract that made over $1 million per year in gaming revenue. Most of them just have slots
THE BEACH 365 E CONVENTION CENTER DR has 16 slot machines, so they went to the trouble to get an unrestricted license for just one additional slot machine. They may be planning an expansion.
I have a list of local's casinos that made over $72 million gaming revenue last fiscal year plus three casinos that opened during the year that will probably exceed that amount next fiscal year. The only one downtown now is Golden Nugget.
May 5th, 2010 at 12:13:39 PM
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So they are fully licensed as what I might term a "real" casino but do not have to have a 150 room hotel or alter their license in order to expand their "real" casino games. What economic premium that does involve? Do any have a good deal of real estate so as to be able to expand even if the neighborhood is presently less than inviting? Heck I'd expand into Bingo and draw in neighborhood women, even if they brought their .45s with them! One California Bing Room is in a dingy neighborhood but calls out numbers at the rate of one every four seconds and makes millions. I know the Gaming Board investigates New Owners, but already having a full license would be a plus for expansion: lighting, security patrols, ... make a mint! Are there limits on the number of licenses that will be granted? I know new licenses require that hotel.Quote: pacomartinIt also is one of those few dozen places that has an unrestricted license, but ...
May 5th, 2010 at 12:34:33 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffSo they are fully licensed as what I might term a "real" casino but do not have to have a 150 room hotel or alter their license in order to expand their "real" casino games. What economic premium that does involve? Do any have a good deal of real estate so as to be able to expand even if the neighborhood is presently less than inviting? Heck I'd expand into Bingo and draw in neighborhood women, even if they brought their .45s with them! One California Bing Room is in a dingy neighborhood but calls out numbers at the rate of one every four seconds and makes millions. I know the Gaming Board investigates New Owners, but already having a full license would be a plus for expansion: lighting, security patrols, ... make a mint! Are there limits on the number of licenses that will be granted? I know new licenses require that hotel.
You thinking or searching out an investment? Maybe this forum should start a consortium to buy up an old locals place!
May 5th, 2010 at 12:46:08 PM
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Quote: pacomartinThere are 177-182 unrestricted licenses in Clark county, and there were 149 in last year's abstract that made over $1 million per year in gaming revenue. Most of them just have slots
Do you know of a comprehensive list of places in southern Nevada (and elsewhere) that have table games (and chips)? If I don't have a complete set for a region, I would like at least to know what I am missing.
I have been using some blackjack and craps survey lists and a couple of on-line directories of casinos to identify chips I might get, but I am not sure those lists are complete or accurate. Last week I visited the Cahuilla Casino in Anza, CA because the CasinoCity web site claims that there are blackjack tables there. I could swear that the casino's own web site also said the same thing before I went there, but the tables have actually been removed. I griped about the out-of-date web site, and it was changed by the time I got home (unless I was mistaken in the first place).
My chip collection now represents 216 casinos, 118 of them from Nevada. Those 118 include 3 from Pahrump and what I think is a complete set from casinos in Clark county that offer blackjack and/or craps. Some of these are from casinos that are gone, and some are sort of duplicates but with name changes, like South Point/South Coast and Bill's/Barbary Coast. I didn't start collecting until 2003 and missed a few that closed before I got a chip.
On my recent trip, I attempted to get new chips from three casinos that I understood had changed names, but I came up empty each time. First, I had read (I think it was one of your posts, paco) that the "Las Vegas Club" is now actually "Vegas Club", in spite of the sign out front still including the "Las". The end-of-show announcement from the VistaVision does indeed acknowledge sponsorship from "Vegas Club". Unfortunately, the $1 chips they are now using, while a different style from the one in my set, still say "Las Vegas Club."
Second, I had read that "Slots-a-Fun" had changed to "Slots-a-Fun at Circus Circus", but they are now using the regular Circus Circus chips. Finally, after driving past Primm in January and seeing the big "Terrible's Primm Valley Resort" sign (or something similar), I took the exit last week and confirmed that all three individual casinos still have the non-Terrible's names on their fronts. I went into the Primm Valley Resort and confirmed that their chips are unchanged.
May 5th, 2010 at 12:49:25 PM
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Great trip report. I think I will skip the Silver Saddle when I come out in June.
May 5th, 2010 at 1:00:08 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffSo they are fully licensed as what I might term a "real" casino but do not have to have a 150 room hotel or alter their license in order to expand their "real" casino games. What economic premium that does involve? Do any have a good deal of real estate so as to be able to expand even if the neighborhood is presently less than inviting? Heck I'd expand into Bingo and draw in neighborhood women, even if they brought their .45s with them! One California Bing Room is in a dingy neighborhood but calls out numbers at the rate of one every four seconds and makes millions. I know the Gaming Board investigates New Owners, but already having a full license would be a plus for expansion: lighting, security patrols, ... make a mint! Are there limits on the number of licenses that will be granted? I know new licenses require that hotel.
There are no restrictions on the number of licenses. I know that the city of Las Vegas is desperate to have a new casino inside the city limits. In the last 20 years the only major casinos opened inside the city limits were Suncoast Casino and Rampart Casino over in Summerlin. However the city doesn't want to open any more of these tiny casinos. The preference is for either a restricted license, or a casino with at least 300 hotel rooms.
There is no statewide rule against expanding these casinos, but I think there is a city ordnance. I read where one city official wanted to let them have more slot machines (up to 200 in a location).
There are some surprisingly successful neighborhood casinos. Joker's Wild, Eldorado, and Arizona Charlie's Decatur are a few. But they may not be the nicest neighborhoods, but they are not slums. Ultra New Town Tavern is in a slum.
Gold Spike was a very prominent renovation. There was a shuttered Travel Inn next door which they bought and are renovating. That way they can get up to 250 rooms.
The Vegas Club is a mini casino that is in going bankrupt. It has a few hundred slot machines and a dozen tables with a 400 room hotel. It may be manageable, but Tamares also owns the Plaza across the street. The Plaza is a very difficult property with over a 1000 rooms. It would be very difficult to make it profitable. The problem is that the owner is rumored not to want to split up the properties. No one wants them both.
The Plaza is in the foreground, and Vegas Club is to the left. They are in the news for failing to make payments to the Fremont Street Experience for the last 9 months.
The city would like to see casino oriented development in four places. To the extreme western part of the city, two places in the Northwestern city (where the only significant casino is the aging Santa Fe Station), and downtown in Symphony Park (near the Plaza Hotel and casino). See the map .
May 5th, 2010 at 1:09:10 PM
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The Plaza has seemed to me like a property that had potential, but it would take someone with some deep pockets to get it a full makevoer. Its pretty much a dump from I understand currently.
May 5th, 2010 at 1:17:10 PM
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Some of those small slot parlors feature extremely comfortable chairs. They seem to get very loyal locals who spend the day there. Some cater to the local communities diverse interests and become "friendly" slot parlors. I think the existence of a full license would probably mean an economic premium over its actual balance sheet value. I've no idea though.
May 5th, 2010 at 1:19:23 PM
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I don't think the Plaza is recoverable. The attached bus station and the empty lots. The awkward layout of the rooms is a serious problem. The nearby Golden Nugget dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into the property and revenue has dropped to 2000 levels. And it was starting with a 4 diamond hotel. I've talked with the former manager, and he said it is a very difficult property.
I think that Vegas Club is equally challenging, but it is a smaller, and that makes it feasible (not easy, but feasible). An investment of $10 million would make a huge difference.
Five years ago when times were better Oscar Goodman was vocal in his talks about imploding the Plaza .
Right now, I think the only downtown properties that are making money are the El Cortez, and the three Boyd properties. These represent the oldest and most stable properties. Because they have not changed hands in decades there is no serious debt load.
I think that Vegas Club is equally challenging, but it is a smaller, and that makes it feasible (not easy, but feasible). An investment of $10 million would make a huge difference.
Five years ago when times were better Oscar Goodman was vocal in his talks about imploding the Plaza .
Right now, I think the only downtown properties that are making money are the El Cortez, and the three Boyd properties. These represent the oldest and most stable properties. Because they have not changed hands in decades there is no serious debt load.
May 5th, 2010 at 1:26:21 PM
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There might be cost and time savings involved in buying an already licensed casino.
I thought Rampart, although often described as being in Summerlin, was legally not located there. I don't know where I read that though.
From what I've heard of the Fremont Street Experience it should be paying damages to all the local casinos.
I would expect that whether as part of a package or individually, the Vegas Club would be priced at far more than one of these outlying slot parlors that happen to have a full license already existing.
What do you mean by the 1,000 room hotel being difficult? Its an aging property and probably looks it.
I thought Rampart, although often described as being in Summerlin, was legally not located there. I don't know where I read that though.
From what I've heard of the Fremont Street Experience it should be paying damages to all the local casinos.
I would expect that whether as part of a package or individually, the Vegas Club would be priced at far more than one of these outlying slot parlors that happen to have a full license already existing.
What do you mean by the 1,000 room hotel being difficult? Its an aging property and probably looks it.
May 5th, 2010 at 1:31:12 PM
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In 2007 I visited the Plaza. I didnt stay long. There was ash build up on all the tables, the carpet was black (I dont think intentionally) and one of the bars had white plastic garden furniture instead of chairs. I hate to think what the rooms were like. I think Mayor Goodman has the right idea for the Plaza.
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May 5th, 2010 at 1:39:15 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffSome of those small slot parlors feature extremely comfortable chairs. They seem to get very loyal locals who spend the day there. Some cater to the local communities diverse interests and become "friendly" slot parlors. I think the existence of a full license would probably mean an economic premium over its actual balance sheet value. I've no idea though.
I'd be curious what one of those palors sell for. We always see/read about the big property sales, but most the smaller ones are always private party deals.
May 5th, 2010 at 1:41:41 PM
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Quote: RoghaltzGreat trip report. I think I will skip the Silver Saddle when I come out in June.
A clear indication of a man with better judgment than mine.
May 5th, 2010 at 1:45:13 PM
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Quote: pacomartinI don't think the Plaza is recoverable. The attached bus station and the empty lots. The awkward layout of the rooms is a serious problem. The nearby Golden Nugget dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into the property and revenue has dropped to 2000 levels. And it was starting with a 4 diamond hotel. I've talked with the former manager, and he said it is a very difficult property.
I think that Vegas Club is equally challenging, but it is a smaller, and that makes it feasible (not easy, but feasible). An investment of $10 million would make a huge difference.
Five years ago when times were better Oscar Goodman was vocal in his talks about imploding the Plaza .
Right now, I think the only downtown properties that are making money are the El Cortez, and the three Boyd properties. These represent the oldest and most stable properties. Because they have not changed hands in decades there is no serious debt load.
Yeah, good point. I guess this just goes to the overall glut of hotel rooms in the city. I've never stepped foot inside the place, I was just going by its location and its structure. I'd think all those balcony rooms would be appealing if the property was actually clean and presentable.
May 5th, 2010 at 1:48:01 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffThere might be cost and time savings involved in buying an already licensed casino.
I thought Rampart, although often described as being in Summerlin, was legally not located there. I don't know where I read that though.
From what I've heard of the Fremont Street Experience it should be paying damages to all the local casinos.
I would expect that whether as part of a package or individually, the Vegas Club would be priced at far more than one of these outlying slot parlors that happen to have a full license already existing.
What do you mean by the 1,000 room hotel being difficult? Its an aging property and probably looks it.
Summerlin is about 22000 acres of land assembled by Howard Hughes. It crosses in and out of city limits, and it has empty holes in the middle. In casual conversation it is difficult to know what precisely is Summerlin and what isn't. The homeowners know because there fees depend on their location. I think that Rampart is in one of those empty holes.
Yes, the Fremont street casinos would be more expensive than the neighborhood casinos. You have over 10 million people a year that walk down the street. Very few of the neighborhood casinos come on the market, they are usually under the same ownership for decades. It is difficult to know what they would cost.
Difficulty is more than just age. The Fremont is 55 years old, but it has a very efficient layout and is very profitable. The Plaza is almost 40 years old, but the towers are set far apart, the casino sprawls, security is difficult, and the rooms are in very bad shape. The check in is on the 2nd floor. It has surprisingly few slot machines in such a big space. It has almost no charm. The people who recognize it usually remember it as the movie location for Biff's Casino in the Back to the Future movies.
I think when Jackie Gaughan owned it he brought a lot of personality to the place which is now gone.
May 5th, 2010 at 2:00:43 PM
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They have a Rat Pack show there nightly that I read good reviews on. Has anyone seen it? Is the condition of the theater as bad as the rest of the property?
May 5th, 2010 at 2:31:14 PM
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Nice story, Doc. And an excellent title.
Your story is one part of what I mean when I say I lack the collector's temperament. I wouldn't venture to a place like the Silver Saddle to get a collectible, not without a bodyguard.
Your story is one part of what I mean when I say I lack the collector's temperament. I wouldn't venture to a place like the Silver Saddle to get a collectible, not without a bodyguard.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
May 5th, 2010 at 5:13:18 PM
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Silver Saddle is far from the worst place in Vegas. The strangling the prostitute in the parking lot is bad, but there have been shootings in a number of places downtown. Parking lots can be dangerous downtown in general. But I think in the day or midweek, Silver Saddle is probably not bad. I would think twice about a Saturday night.
May 5th, 2010 at 5:41:52 PM
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Quote: pacomartinSilver Saddle is far from the worst place in Vegas. The strangling the prostitute in the parking lot is bad, but there have been shootings in a number of places downtown.
I'm sure it's not. I'm sure the worse places in Vegas don't use chips of any sort, either. Moreover I've gotten sued to living in a city with plenty of crime, which is why I know better than to visit trouble spots, deserted streets and such. Also I've no reason to go.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
May 5th, 2010 at 5:57:42 PM
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Maybe they should sell T-shirts that say, "I visited the Silver Saddle Saloon and survived!"
May 5th, 2010 at 6:37:18 PM
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Quote: DocMaybe they should sell T-shirts that say, "I visited the Silver Saddle Saloon and survived!"
Any publicity is good publicity.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
May 11th, 2010 at 10:05:55 AM
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Quote: NareedYour story is one part of what I mean when I say I lack the collector's temperament.
Nareed, I'm not really sure what sort of temperament is required. In my case, I think its just some sort of minor compulsive disorder similar to gambling when you know the odds are always against you.
I'm just reviving this thread to show how my chip collecting translates into bringing home memories of a trip to Vegas (or elsewhere). The photo shows the top of my desk in my home office, currently displaying under glass the chips from 216 casinos. The 118 Nevada casinos included here cover slightly more than the left half of this array.
I highly doubt that the view in this forum will have enough resolution for you to see any of the chips individually, so if you want to see the details, try this link. It goes to a 1.3 MB .jpg file that (depending on your browser) you may be able to scroll around in. Of course, the image would probably be better if I removed the glass for the photo, but I am too lazy to do that today.
Nerd check: How many of you felt the urge to count rows and columns to see whether there really are 216 chips in the image? How many of you only felt the urge immediately after I mentioned it?
May 11th, 2010 at 10:28:34 AM
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Quote: DocNerd check: How many of you felt the urge to count rows and columns to see whether there really are 216 chips in the image? How many of you only felt the urge immediately after I mentioned it?
I started to count, but stopped after I ran out of fingers and toes.
May 11th, 2010 at 10:59:20 AM
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What? No $5 chips?
THOSE are the ones to get - at least the limited edition versions.
But seriously, it's very cool.
THOSE are the ones to get - at least the limited edition versions.
But seriously, it's very cool.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 11th, 2010 at 11:02:43 AM
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Ah, yes. The complexities of that component of higher mathematics known as multiplication. I, too, have never learned to multiply on my fingers and toes. Of course, if you have mastered it, the array has fewer than twenty rows and fewer than twenty chips per row.Quote: gamblerI started to count, but stopped after I ran out of fingers and toes.
No, I am far too cheap. Once, my wife did point out that the green ones are really prettier than the ones I collect. On the other hand, there seems to be more variety of color in the $1 chips, so the array doesn't seem so monochrome as it might with higher denominations. And no, no limited editions. I just go for whatever chip they are using at the time I play.Quote: DJTeddyBearWhat? No $5 chips?
May 12th, 2010 at 12:07:45 PM
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Interesting that white seems to be the default color for $1 chips, but blue is a close second. The only casino I've noticed that has blue $1's is the Wynn. I think their white denomination is something ridiculous like $5,000.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
May 12th, 2010 at 1:54:33 PM
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Maybe there was a typo or a miscommunication. You first said that blue is a close second, then said that Wynn is the only blue $1 chip you've noticed. If the second part is what you meant, I can provide a list of the blue $1 chips I have from Vegas -- there are quite a few -- but I don't want to burden the thread with such a list if that isn't what you really meant.Quote: teddysInteresting that white seems to be the default color for $1 chips, but blue is a close second. The only casino I've noticed that has blue $1's is the Wynn. I think their white denomination is something ridiculous like $5,000.
May 13th, 2010 at 3:11:02 PM
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Yeah, I meant that Wynn is the only time I've noticed blue chips in an *actual casino*. Obviously a lot of casinos use the blues.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
May 13th, 2010 at 3:45:46 PM
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I'm not clear what you mean by an "actual casino." In addition to Wynn/Encore, my Bellagio, Caesars Palace, MGM Grand, Mirage, and Mandalay Bay $1 chips are blue. Of course, to the opposite extreme, so are my chips from El Cortez, Western, and Gold Spike. What is the standard you are looking to qualify a casino as "actual"?
May 14th, 2010 at 2:25:12 PM
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I mean a casion I have actually been in and played in. That's a very select few. I haven't played in any of those places except the Wynn, although I have been to El Cortez and Western.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, and I don't feel like splitting hairs anymore, so just disregard everything I said.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, and I don't feel like splitting hairs anymore, so just disregard everything I said.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
May 14th, 2010 at 2:28:38 PM
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Not to continue beating a dead horse...
I was equally confused.
This last post finally cleared it up.
I was equally confused.
This last post finally cleared it up.
Quote: teddysI mean a casion I have actually been in and played in.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 14th, 2010 at 2:51:53 PM
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Thanks for clearing my confusion, teddys. If you are in Vegas, you really should check out some of those other places on that list, even if you don't gamble there. They have some beautiful and interesting sights to see. I love them all. But I don't really recommend very highly the establishment this thread was meant to be about originally.
