A sad day for Vegas

For all those who hoped that Harrah's wouldnt get hold of Planet Hollywood, it looks like it is definately happening now.

I know there aren't a lot of Harrah's fans in this nape of the neck, er neck of the woods, but I've had my own gripes about the management of PH anyway, specifically the comps:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/320-be-warned-about-planet-hollywood-comps

Maybe Harrah's can improve on this.

Now that Harrah's owns the entire block, they will have to re-double their stalled efforts to build some kind of sports entertainment arena behind these casinos. With three hotels and 8200 rooms feeding the complex they will have the lion's share of traffic going to the venue.

Anyone care to set a line when Harrah's buys MGM-Mirage too?

1-50 after 2020
1-20 2016-2020
12-1 2014-2016.
15-1 2013
25-1 2012
50-1 2011
100-1 2010

Thems my odds, place your bets.

Quote: Croupier

1-50 after 2020
1-20 2016-2020
12-1 2014-2016.
15-1 2013
25-1 2012
50-1 2011
100-1 2010

Thems my odds, place your bets.

Why do you make people lay after 2016?

What I don't get is way back they wouldn't let Howard Hughes buy the Stardust because of too much share of the market, why not limit Harrahs?

Quote: AZDuffman

What I don't get is way back they wouldn't let Howard Hughes buy the Stardust because of too much share of the market, why not limit Harrahs?

Somebody should have asked that question before Harrah's merged with Park Place, or MGM with Mandalay.

Harrah's has 44% of Atlantic City. Right now they have about 22% of the strip. They really don't have any huge moneymakers, except for Ceasars Palace. Strip revenue should come in at around $2.6 billion in 2009 for Harrah's. MGM/Mirage should clear $4.7 billion in 2009 (for the strip). Venetian/Palazzo should be $1.1 billion.
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A lot of people don't remember this but Park Place (aka Ceasars Entertainment) owned the Las Vegas Hilton as well. They only agreed to sell it to Colony Capital 6 months before Harrah's bought them out in 2005.
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Colony Capitol (owns 60% of LV Hilton and a lot of Station Casinos) and Whitehall Street Real Estate Funds (real estate investment arm of Goldman Sachs) both lost a fortune in the last two years. WSREF bought the Stratosphere, and the the two Arizona Charlie's and for much more than they were worth. Revenue is now plunging.
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Even if Harrah's buys up all of the older properties, LV Hilton, Tropicana, Riviera, Stratosphere and the Sahara they still won't have more than 1/3 of the strip. I don't think the regulators will stop them. But MGM/Mirage including City Center is 1/2 the revenue of the strip for 2010. I think the regulators are going to get uncomfortable with any one company controlling more than 1/2.

Quote: AZDuffman

Why do you make people lay after 2016?

because i have no idea on how to run a book and made up the odds on the fly based on nothing whatsover.

With an event like this you'd want to frame your market to about 130% or so I'd say. Plenty of juice for the bookie & More than enough margin for error in what would be a fairly difficult event to accurately predict.

They still seem like very different companies. Harrah's has basically built very few casino resorts from scratch, but acquired almost all of their properties. They seem to have a great player's club, and are excellent at enticing the middle level gambler. The Ceasars property is one of the real exceptions in their portfolio.
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But MGM Mirage seems to thrive on creating new hotels from scratch. I just can't see Harrah's buying MGM MIrage or the regulators permitting such an acquisition. Although Harrah's biggest market is Las Vegas, it's revenue is much lower in Vegas than MGM/Mirage.
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32.1% Las Vegas
22.9% Atlantic City
14.3% Louisiana/Mississippi
7.7% Iowa/Missouri
11.7% Illinois/Indiana
5.7% Other Nevada
5.6% Managed/International/Other

Paco I don't know about MGM/Mirage in other areas but the current management of the corp wasn't involved when any of the vegas properties were buitl. Steve Wynn built several of them and the MGM was built by Kirk Kerkorian who also built the original MGM (now Bally's) and I believe what is now the Hilton. Each of them was the largest hotel in the world when built. So their Vegas properties were built by the real visionaries of modern Las Vegas and not the current corporation management.

I just did a little more research and found that Kerkorian is still the dominate shareholder in MGM Mirage. You are probably right Paco because he has been a visionary in the modern casino format.

Quote: pacomartin

They still seem like very different companies. Harrah's has basically built very few casino resorts from scratch, but acquired almost all of their properties. They seem to have a great player's club, and are excellent at enticing the middle level gambler. The Ceasars property is one of the real exceptions in their portfolio.

Agreed. Harrah's wouldn't know what to do with MGM. They can barely handle running Caesars. In fact, a few years back, they barred a bunch of high-limit players from their casinos. Not just, "We don't want your business," but _barred_ them. You can google The Quiet Lion website if you want the story on that.
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Of course, they didn't seem to have any problem with people like Terry Watanabe who were guaranteed losers.
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They are _very_ good at attracting the mid-level gambler, and keeping you enticed. Then you get to playing their horrible games and you lose a lot. I know this, because they got me :)