Restaurants

This thread is to be used to discuss restaurants and dining available at Paris.

I love the Paris breakfast buffet. I've had it several times on various trips and the quality was always excellent.

Edit: Moved to Paris Hotel section

After 4 times in 2 years trying to eat at Paris we had the Paris breakfast buffet last week. It was terrific. The standard choices but superior quality. Real corned beef hash not the imitation and real good quality eggs bennidict made fresh and not sitting around. Tons of fresh fruit choices and omelet bar. I wasn't crazy about the tables layout. Very crowded. We got there by 645 am and by 7am 100 people in line to open. Next time we will pay the premium price to cut in line to have dinner. Well worth it.

I was a bit disappointed in "Le Cafe," the coffee shop at Paris. I ate there for dinner last Friday, 1/21. The decor is very nice and authentic; it reminded me very much of some real French cafes I ate in when I was there a few years ago. I ordered the Filet Mignon special, and while it wasn't the worst Filet Mignon I've ever had, it still felt a little rubbery and flavorless. The waitstaff were kind of rude as well. (Though I guess that's part of the authenticity!) On the bright side, $16.99 is pretty cheap for a Filet Mignon special, and the apple pie I had for dessert was pretty good.

Been to Paris three times over the past couple of years and finally made it to Gordon Ramseys steakhouse.

On the shortlist of best steaks I've ever had - it was outstanding.

Quote: Nostron

Been to Paris three times over the past couple of years and finally made it to Gordon Ramseys steakhouse.

On the shortlist of best steaks I've ever had - it was outstanding.

I am guessing $300 for full meal for two. Which of these $45-$75 steaks did you have?

Prime Beef (non-member/total reward member)
Bone-in New York Strip* 18oz $61 / $63
Filet* 8oz $51 / 53
Bone-in Rib Eye* 24oz $56 / 58
Porterhouse for two* 32oz $98 / 105
Royal Long-Bone Chop for two* 32oz $98 / 105
American Kobe beef marbling score of 9 or higher
Skirt* 8oz $45 / 48
Filet* 8oz $75 / 78
Rib Cap* 8oz $56 / 58

Had the rib cap - great flavor.

You are about right on with the $$$ - if I recall it was $1450 or so for 10 of us.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I'm glad I didn't waste my comp dollars on that overpriced cow meat.

There is some difference in quality regarding beef, but unless you go with specific breeds or beef-raising methods (Kobe, grass-fed, and such), any good quality cut at a reputable supermarket is about as good as "premium" and "choice" cuts in the most expensive restaurants.

Then the quality of cooking becomes more important. For a grilled steak, the difference isn't that big. But sides and acompanying wines could be a distinct point. Also a relaxed atmosphere, a comfortable table, a nice setting and prompt service can enhance the overall enjoyment of the meal. All these things cost money, and you pay for them.

Quote: Nareed

and you pay for them.

Only if you can't get them comped.

Quote: Nareed

There is some difference in quality regarding beef, but unless you go with specific breeds or beef-raising methods (Kobe, grass-fed, and such), any good quality cut at a reputable supermarket is about as good as "premium" and "choice" cuts in the most expensive restaurants.

I do not believe this is 100% correct. The fancy steakhouses normally serve dry aged "prime" beef that is not available in normal supermarkets. Prime beef has a higher degree of fat marbling than the "choice" grade normally sold in markets. If you do not have access to a fancy butcher this quality of meat is available only to restaurants. Most markets do not age the beef either, although my local Whole Foods does sometimes have dry aged beef for around $25/lb. At that price I am happy to go to my neighborhood steakhouse that will cook a 1lb dry aged steak for me for about $40 including a side, salad, and veggies.

Now, it may be questionable if the additional quality is worth the price difference, but there is a difference, at least sometimes.

Quote: jml24

The fancy steakhouses normally serve dry aged "prime" beef that is not available in normal supermarkets.

I don't know much about "aging" beef. But in all food and drink, it usually means a form of spoilage. True, in some cases the spoilage turns the food or drink into something different, like cheese or wine, which is still good to eat.

I'm not much into beef anyway. And in mexico the cuts of beef are much different from those in America or even Argentina. It's the same beef, but cut differently. Here you find thinner, leaner cuts. So-called "American cuts like T-bone or New York Steak are available, but more expensive. Often they're imported.

I note a positive difference in the taste of grass fed beef as compared to feed lot commercial beef.

Regarding aging, many high-end steakhouses do dry age their beef (or get someone else to do it for them.) It tenderizes the meat and concentrates the flavor. See this wikipedia article on the topic. The process is expensive.

Grass fed beef has a stronger flavor that some people (including me) like, but also tends to be tougher due to lower fat marbling.

Both (individually or combined) add cost and are part of the reason a really nice restaurant steak has a premium price. Of course the deluxe service and other amenities of the restaurant come into play, as does the guarantee it will be cooked properly. If you overcook a $30 piece of meat at home you can't send it back.

Just came here looking for restaurant info at Paris, and found this discussion.

This is something I know a bit about, and I believe you are both right.

Nareed, you are correct that a quality supermarket steak, properly prepared, can rival the high end steakhouses for flavor and tenderness. I know, I make them often. It took a while to figure it out, and I ate a lot of poorly cooked steaks.

jml24, you are correct that, all other things equal, dry aged prime rules the steak world.



Here are the qualifiers, because everything has a "take into account" quotient.


First, you can't avoid taking into account price.

True dry aged prime is expensive. Like, $45/lb over the internet. Google and click. The cheapest I've found it locally was $30/lb for a 14 lb bone in rib roast. That was 4 years ago. You aren't paying as much of a premium in those high end steakhouses as you might think. The markup is probably 150-200%, but the actual dollar markup isn't all that much when you consider that it is going to be perfect when it arrives.

Price is also important because properly prepared, good USDA choice and Black Angus both get close enough that you'll happily keep your money in your pocket for the difference.


Second, you have to take into account preparation.

Learn to cook. Are we not civilized? Of course we are. Properly prepared USDA Choice will trump poorly prepared USDA Prime every time.

Meals of grilled meat have two components that fight with each other: flavor and tenderness. Flavor comes from the Maillard reaction that chars the exterior. Tenderness comes from the beef being cooked slowly, so that the muscles don't toughen. Too much of one takes away from the other; if you grill steak too long at too high a heat it won't be tender, and if you cook it to slow and too low it won't char. You have to split the fire. Char your steak and then move it off the fire to dwell. Or conversely, you can bring it up to temp slowly, and then char it at the end. Either method gives great results. The "fire-and-dwell" gives outstanding flavor with tenderness; the "reverse sear" gives outstanding tenderness with flavor. Here is a video with Craig "Meathead" Goldwyn of Amazing Ribs and Jaimie Purveyance, the research chef of Weber Grills, comparing the two methods:



I'm partial to the reverse sear, because the first time I tried it I nailed it, and it was repeatable, so it's my method now. Here is a filet steak done reverse sear:




There is a third way to get perfect steaks, and it is how almost every steakhouse in the world operates. They use what is called a sous vide machine. The steaks are vacuum sealed and dropped in a water bath, then brought to 120*. They are held there until ordered; once ordered, they are removed from the machine and put over the flame until done to order. A home sous vide machine runs about $400. There are instructions for how to make your own on the 'net.

Which brings me to, sous vide is why your restaurant steaks are so good. The dry aged prime, that is the sizzle. Put the two together and you get that memorable steakhouse meal.