Does CET care if you use someone elses free play
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Quote: GWAEMy parents visited a CET property 1 time. They were there a full night and each put some decent coin in (slots only). A month later they are each receiving $400 in free play on Sun-Sat. So if they go on a sat night close to midnight they will each have $800 in free play. They are using it most weeks but there is a week that they are going away so they said I could use it. Normally whenever we go to Ac or if they go to AC we share cards but that is generally only $40 or so. During my last trip to AC I was using my fathers card in Ballys and a host came up to me and greeted me by his name. I just said hi and he gave me his card. Is it reasonable for me to think that the host knew that I wasn't playing on my card, or did he have no idea and he only came up to me because he got an alert somehow when the card was used?
I think the host in your story came up to you because he was alerted that your dad was playing on-site. They DO have his vitals on file, since they scanned his DL when he got his players' card. But the host almost certainly did not have that info when he greeted you. He may have seen it when he returned to the bullpen after visiting with you (they take notes about encounters, so he'd have had your dad's file up then).
Free play is absolutely intended only for the recipient named. Using someone else's freeplay is not something that the casino condones. But they also almost certainly won't catch you, and there's not much of a "penalty" either. This is a big dollar amount, but your best bet is probably to play it as fast as possible. If slots are your thing, just mash play as many times as you need to to clear the freeplay and move on. If VP is your thing, then find a nice multi-line machine and hit it hard.
Quote: rdw4potusI think the host in your story came up to you because he was alerted that your dad was playing on-site. They DO have his vitals on file, since they scanned his DL when he got his players' card. But the host almost certainly did not have that info when he greeted you. He may have seen it when he returned to the bullpen after visiting with you (they take notes about encounters, so he'd have had your dad's file up then).
Free play is absolutely intended only for the recipient named. Using someone else's freeplay is not something that the casino condones. But they also almost certainly won't catch you, and there's not much of a "penalty" either. This is a big dollar amount, but your best bet is probably to play it as fast as possible. If slots are your thing, just mash play as many times as you need to to clear the freeplay and move on. If VP is your thing, then find a nice multi-line machine and hit it hard.
thank you for the quick replies. The 4 of us share cards all of the time at local casinos and have never had an issue but having such a large amount was making me worry. Normally when we use each others free play we will continue to play on the card afterwards so we don't mess up the ADT too much but after the Ballys meeting I was thinking that I shouldn't do that at a CET property anymore. My parents also don't care much about their ADT with CET since they don't go often and even this one is 3 hours away but for $1600 in free play it is worth the drive so they are using it everytime they can until it dries up.
If I use it I was figuring that I would through it into VP and play JOB for $1 and hopefully I don't get a royal. I have heard before that if you get a hand pay on someone elses card that they will still pay it but I am not sure if they goes if the hand pay is dealt while using free play. I could play 80 hands in a few min and cash out before a host would ever have time to make it to me hopefully.
Quote: Mission146About the multi-line VP, couldn't they make a case about not paying you on the handpay, should one occur?
Possibly, but what if you throw $100 of real money in there as well while playing the freeplay?
I would think you're still likely to get the jackpot, but they might suspend/ban you from Total Rewards afterward.
Quote: tringlomanePossibly, but what if you throw $100 of real money in there as well while playing the freeplay?
I would think you're still likely to get the jackpot, but they might suspend/ban you from Total Rewards afterward.
Who would they ban? the user of the card, the owner of the card, or both?
Quote: tringlomanePossibly, but what if you throw $100 of real money in there as well while playing the freeplay?
I would think you're still likely to get the jackpot, but they might suspend/ban you from Total Rewards afterward.
I'd say you're likely, but I don't think it is worth the risk. If you throw $100 in? "Here's your hundred bucks back, plus whatever else you won, with exception to this hand pay. Cash out, and we'll reset the Credits Balance to zero, thank you, good night, don't ever come back."
Quote: GWAEWho would they ban? the user of the card, the owner of the card, or both?
The pin number should be written on the back of the card in this scenario, that way, the owner of the card can make the argument he dropped it and didn't know it was being used. Might give you the benefit of the doubt once.
Quote: GWAEWho would they ban? the user of the card, the owner of the card, or both?
possibly both, really dunno.
Quote: IbeatyouracesDon't use it or play on a game or certain denomination where a potential hand pay is required.
I agree with this.
Quote: Mission146I'd say you're likely, but I don't think it is worth the risk. If you throw $100 in? "Here's your hundred bucks back, plus whatever else you won, with exception to this hand pay. Cash out, and we'll reset the Credits Balance to zero, thank you, good night, don't ever come back."
Yeah I dunno how they would handle it. Maybe someone who has actually got busted for this could shed light on it.
Quote: Mission146About the multi-line VP, couldn't they make a case about not paying you on the handpay, should one occur?
I have never had anyone check my players club card on a jackpot, including the couple that I've hit on freeplay. I suppose there's some exposure here, though. Certainly I would remove the original card and maybe even insert mine before the slot crew arrived (it's a CET property, so there'll be plenty of time...).
So if I want to just avoid a hand pay situation could I just play $4 a spin. A royal on $4 is $1000. Would that still be a hand pay and if so what about $3 for a $750 hit. I know I am sacrificing a ton of ev but when using free money my ev is already elevated. I was thinking about playing a high denom slot but I think my change of a hand pay is greater there.
Quote: rdw4potusI have never had anyone check my players club card on a jackpot, including the couple that I've hit on freeplay. I suppose there's some exposure here, though. Certainly I would remove the original card and maybe even insert mine before the slot crew arrived (it's a CET property, so there'll be plenty of time...).
You've never had anyone physically remove the card and look at it, but certainly, they can tell whose card is in the machine when verifying and they have your ID to process the handpay, so, they probably don't need to physically check the card unless it fails to match the person who won.
I'm assuming you were using your own card when you hit these, of course.
Quote: tringlomaneMaybe someone who has actually got busted for this could shed light on it.
In all of my years playing I have never heard of anyone getting heat for this. The closest that I have heard was my aunt was playing my uncles card and got a royal. However, he was just in the bathroom and when the slot attendant came over they asked about him and she said he would be right back. We were never clear if it was going to be a problem or not though.
I am probably being overly cautious as I have only had 1 royal in almost 200k hands, unlike mr tring over there. ;-) But maybe that just means my average is about to catch up with me.
'Quote: IbeatyouracesYou just don't want to get a $1200 or more jackpot unless you are sure there will be no problems using the card. You can always ask first too.
I guess I could just ask them when I get there. When I hit my only Royal ever last month it was for $1100+ on a progressive and it triggered a hand pay. I didn't get a W2G because it was under $1200 but it still triggered a hand pay. I wasn't sure if it was because it was on a progressive or if it was because it was a "jackpot" on that machine or if their threshold was $1000.
It's very different, though the rules are explicit, when family members share an account. I think if GWAE had said, "I'm his son, and he wanted me to enjoy the play because he couldn't make it over." It would have been better in the long run; they would either not stop him, or stop him but not penalize his dad for lending the card. Best yet would be if the parents were on the property and could verify any question of permission, though it's really the casino that needs to give it, not the card owner. But leaving the host to easily see he was being fraudulent when he checked the account was burning a bridge, IMO.
If I'm misunderstanding the family agreement, then my take on this would all change.
Quote: Mission146You've never had anyone physically remove the card and look at it, but certainly, they can tell whose card is in the machine when verifying and they have your ID to process the handpay, so, they probably don't need to physically check the card unless it fails to match the person who won.
I'm assuming you were using your own card when you hit these, of course.
That's the thing. THEIR card needs to be in the machine during the verification process. So the player's card is set on the machine or handed back. And I doubt they could track what card was in the machine when the jackpot hit (at least not in real time, with info flowing to the person on the floor), so switching to your card after the jackpot and before the verification almost certainly works. But, you're right that I've never won on someone else's card. I think I've only ever played on someone else's card once, and it was as though it was cursed.
Quote: IbeatyouracesAt Motorcity here they know that I had my card in.
Impressive!
OK, followup: The card is needed to download the credits to the machine...is it needed to play? I would think it could be taken out as soon as the credits were there, and the play could be done on someone else's card (or with no card). I know I've walked away from promo credits before by mistake - I assume they stay on the machine and someone gets a nice payday from my aloofness?
Quote: IbeatyouracesAny place that I know of where you download the free play into credits will put the credits back on the card if pulled.
I thought that the purpose of CET's My Bank system was specifically because this doesn't happen there. Why let players download in $1 and $5 increments if the credits just go back anyway?
Quote: IbeatyouracesWas he playing at a high level. I've had hosts track me down while playing to ask me questions. Last time was invited to a party in Vegas, all expenses paid!
What, as a thank you for taking their money every day? :-)
Quote: GWAE'
I guess I could just ask them when I get there. When I hit my only Royal ever last month it was for $1100+ on a progressive and it triggered a hand pay. I didn't get a W2G because it was under $1200 but it still triggered a hand pay. I wasn't sure if it was because it was on a progressive or if it was because it was a "jackpot" on that machine or if their threshold was $1000.
NO!!!
Why ask when you get there!?
Let's find out now!
I got sick of waiting for Bally AC to finally answer the phone, so called Horseshoe Cleveland, answering machine, JESUS, Horseshoe Cincinnati, another answering machine, the Hell is wrong with these people, Horseshoe Hammond, IN, twenty rings, thirty rings, forty rings...this is ridiculous, Paris Casino, :
Mission146: Hello, how are you?
Total Rewards Desk-Christopher: Good, how you doin'?
Mission146: I'm well, thank you. I have an unusual question, my brother's birthday is coming up, and I actually have $250 Free Play at the casino, so I was kind of thinking about letting him use my player's club card and running through the Free Play for his birthday, and whatever happens, happens. Do you know if this would be permitted?
To paraphrase Chris: They don't actually have PIN numbers in Vegas, so you have to have your I.D. and Voucher to get the Free Play loaded, but Chris said you could pretty much do whatever you want after that. He said he doesn't know the policy for places where there is a PIN number.
Oh, God, let's try Bally AC again....
Reyanna: I tried the supervisor line and the main line and couldn't get anyone, maybe I can help?
Mission146: I have an unusual question, my brother's birthday is coming up, and I actually have $250 Free Play at the casino, so I was kind of thinking about letting him use my player's club card and running through the Free Play for his birthday, and whatever happens, happens. Do you know if this would be permitted?
Reyanna: The thing about the Free Play or Points is that it is your Free Play or Points, so if we caught someone else using it, there could potentially be a problem there.
Mission146: So, if there were a handpay for instance, would he not get that?
Reyanna: Again, I can't say specifically what would happen, but there could potentially be a problem there.
Mission146: Thanks, have a good night!
Reyanna: You too, sir.
Quote: Mission146NO!!!
Why ask when you get there!?
Let's find out now!
I got sick of waiting for Bally AC to finally answer the phone, so called Horseshoe Cleveland, answering machine, JESUS, Horseshoe Cincinnati, another answering machine, the Hell is wrong with these people, Horseshoe Hammond, IN, twenty rings, thirty rings, forty rings...this is ridiculous, Paris Casino, :
Mission146: Hello, how are you?
Total Rewards Desk-Christopher: Good, how you doin'?
Mission146: I'm well, thank you. I have an unusual question, my brother's birthday is coming up, and I actually have $250 Free Play at the casino, so I was kind of thinking about letting him use my player's club card and running through the Free Play for his birthday, and whatever happens, happens. Do you know if this would be permitted?
To paraphrase Chris: They don't actually have PIN numbers in Vegas, so you have to have your I.D. and Voucher to get the Free Play loaded, but Chris said you could pretty much do whatever you want after that. He said he doesn't know the policy for places where there is a PIN number.
Oh, God, let's try Bally AC again....
Reyanna: I tried the supervisor line and the main line and couldn't get anyone, maybe I can help?
Mission146: I have an unusual question, my brother's birthday is coming up, and I actually have $250 Free Play at the casino, so I was kind of thinking about letting him use my player's club card and running through the Free Play for his birthday, and whatever happens, happens. Do you know if this would be permitted?
Reyanna: The thing about the Free Play or Points is that it is your Free Play or Points, so if we caught someone else using it, there could potentially be a problem there.
Mission146: So, if there were a handpay for instance, would he not get that?
Reyanna: Again, I can't say specifically what would happen, but there could potentially be a problem there.
Mission146: Thanks, have a good night!
Reyanna: You too, sir.
This is #4 on the things that make you great, Pierce!
Quote: beachbumbabsThis is #4 on the things that make you great, Pierce!
LOL Thanks!
Quote: IbeatyouracesLike I said, just play it on something that will not generate a hand pay.
Exactly!
You still have a wide range of games to choose from. If you want to get rid of it quickly, you have E-Table games, whatever ones they have, anyway.
If you're not concerned with getting rid of it quickly, then the top possible prize is known on most Keno games and Video Poker games. Also, the top possible prize is known on many flat-top slots, or even Progressive slots that don't have any kind of Free Games. I believe I've seen $1.00/denom flat-tops with a top possible prize of $1,000, though I could be wrong. You could hammer that Free Play through pretty quickly on those.
Quote: GWAE
I am probably being overly cautious as I have only had 1 royal in almost 200k hands, unlike mr tring over there. ;-) But maybe that just means my average is about to catch up with me.
My last Royal at the casino was one year ago to this very minute...blah (9/21/12 12:25AM in Tunica, MS). I haven't played 200k hands in the last year though, I hope! The last Royal with my card actually in the machine, President's Day 2012.
Also my biggest machine win also didn't have my card in the machine, hmm, maybe I shouldn't use my card? lol
Quote: tringlomaneMy last Royal at the casino was one year ago to this very minute...blah (9/21/12 12:25AM in Tunica, MS). I haven't played 200k hands in the last year though, I hope! The last Royal with my card actually in the machine, President's Day 2012.
Also my biggest machine win also didn't have my card in the machine, hmm, maybe I shouldn't use my card? lol
I thought you went through a phase where you got quite a few or maybe it was someone else's trips that I am remembering (from another forum).
Mission, that was awesome of you to call them. One of the places that you called are where I will be attempting to hit and run.
Quote: GWAEMy parents visited a CET property 1 time. They were there a full night and each put some decent coin in (slots only). A month later they are each receiving $400 in free play on Sun-Sat. So if they go on a sat night close to midnight they will each have $800 in free play. They are using it most weeks but there is a week that they are going away so they said I could use it. Normally whenever we go to Ac or if they go to AC we share cards but that is generally only $40 or so. During my last trip to AC I was using my fathers card in Ballys and a host came up to me and greeted me by his name. I just said hi and he gave me his card. Is it reasonable for me to think that the host knew that I wasn't playing on my card, or did he have no idea and he only came up to me because he got an alert somehow when the card was used?
Not exactly what you were asking about, but doesn't the day at CET end at 6 am rather than midnight? I know it does at Borgata.
Quote: bwNot exactly what you were asking about, but doesn't the day at CET end at 6 am rather than midnight? I know it does at Borgata.
Yes the gaming day does start in the morning AFAIK but the free play is available at midnight.
Quote: GWAE
Mission, that was awesome of you to call them. One of the places that you called are where I will be attempting to hit and run.
It was no problem, you had actually mentioned Bally's AC in the OP, so that's why I kept trying to call them. If it's somewhere else, let me know, and I'll call somewhere else.
Definitely do not physically go in and ask something like this at the property, and don't call and give your name, either. I tend to get the impression that you don't have even a remotely dishonest bone in your body. I have some remotely dishonest bones in my body, not totally dishonest ones, mind you, but just dishonest enough that I can be cunning when the situation calls for it! LOL
See, even if they don't allow that, you're still going to want to try it. However, if you go in there and physically ask them, and they say no, they might be liable to keep an eye on you from that point forward...and it would certainly be noticed if you used more than one card, at that point.
I would always assume that the answer would be, "No," but there is some value in calling ahead and asking because you can cite an individual's name and position as being someone who said it was okay to do that, if someone tells you that. Also, if someone at the property actually did say, "Yes," it might enable you to play a machine in which a handpay is a possibility.
I still wouldn't, though. Absent an audio recording of the person saying, "Yes," they could simply not believe you. Trust me, people have called my subordinates here at the hotel invoking my name and position in saying that I quoted them on a rate that I didn't quote. On one occasion, one such person was talking to me at the time that he cited what I allegedly said!
Quote: GWAEYes the gaming day does start in the morning AFAIK but the free play is available at midnight.
Are you sure? There's almost no way they could even administer a system where the free play calendar didn't sync to the gaming day calendar.
Quote: Mission146It was no problem, you had actually mentioned Bally's AC in the OP, so that's why I kept trying to call them. If it's somewhere else, let me know, and I'll call somewhere else.
Definitely do not physically go in and ask something like this at the property, and don't call and give your name, either. I tend to get the impression that you don't have even a remotely dishonest bone in your body. I have some remotely dishonest bones in my body, not totally dishonest ones, mind you, but just dishonest enough that I can be cunning when the situation calls for it! LOL
See, even if they don't allow that, you're still going to want to try it. However, if you go in there and physically ask them, and they say no, they might be liable to keep an eye on you from that point forward...and it would certainly be noticed if you used more than one card, at that point.
I would always assume that the answer would be, "No," but there is some value in calling ahead and asking because you can cite an individual's name and position as being someone who said it was okay to do that, if someone tells you that. Also, if someone at the property actually did say, "Yes," it might enable you to play a machine in which a handpay is a possibility.
I still wouldn't, though. Absent an audio recording of the person saying, "Yes," they could simply not believe you. Trust me, people have called my subordinates here at the hotel invoking my name and position in saying that I quoted them on a rate that I didn't quote. On one occasion, one such person was talking to me at the time that he cited what I allegedly said!
The thing that I was actually going to ask was about the hand pay and not about using the free play. I don't have the courage to actually ask about the free play and if they tell me that it is a very bad idea then I wouldn't use it and then I would have wasted 5 hours of driving time. I am still curious on what triggers a hand pay. 1k? Jackpot of the machine (any Royal no matter how many coins are played)? or some other random factor?
I am not sure if I should say which casino it is, I don't think they would know who I was but you never know which big brother and all. I will say though, it is one of the ones you called and it "gallops".
As far as being able to use the free play at midnight. My parents have gone for the past 2 Saturdays and used one during the day and the next coupon at Midnight. Unless they are telling me a tale. I do know for a fact however, that our local casinos use a gaming day at 6 am and free play works at midnight so it is definitely possible. One of the casino's actually doesn't activate free play until 8am so I think it is something that can be set to whatever they want.
Quote: GWAEThe thing that I was actually going to ask was about the hand pay and not about using the free play. I don't have the courage to actually ask about the free play and if they tell me that it is a very bad idea then I wouldn't use it and then I would have wasted 5 hours of driving time. I am still curious on what triggers a hand pay. 1k? Jackpot of the machine (any Royal no matter how many coins are played)? or some other random factor?
A handpay is triggered on any Slots, Video Keno or Video Poker win of $1,200, or more, which is why I said they are easy to avoid. That's also why you will occasionally see flat-top slots with a top jackpot of $1,199!
Quote:I am not sure if I should say which casino it is, I don't think they would know who I was but you never know which big brother and all. I will say though, it is one of the ones you called and it "gallops".
That narrows it down to three, lol, just PM me it!
Quote:As far as being able to use the free play at midnight. My parents have gone for the past 2 Saturdays and used one during the day and the next coupon at Midnight. Unless they are telling me a tale. I do know for a fact however, that our local casinos use a gaming day at 6 am and free play works at midnight so it is definitely possible. One of the casino's actually doesn't activate free play until 8am so I think it is something that can be set to whatever they want.
I'll also ask them about that when I call. At one point, Scioto Downs had it such that Free Play didn't work on Friday or Saturday at all. Later on, it would work up until 23:59 on Saturday and reset at 5:00 on Sunday. There was also one point where it would work until 23:59 Saturday and reset at 0:00 on Sunday. I can't quite recall if it was the second way first and then the first way, or the other way around. Either way, five hours isn't that bad of a wait if the Free Play amount is worth it.
Quote: GWAEThe thing that I was actually going to ask was about the hand pay and not about using the free play. I don't have the courage to actually ask about the free play and if they tell me that it is a very bad idea then I wouldn't use it and then I would have wasted 5 hours of driving time. I am still curious on what triggers a hand pay. 1k? Jackpot of the machine (any Royal no matter how many coins are played)? or some other random factor?
Any machine that awards a single prize of $1200 or more (including your own wager) will ALWAYS trigger a handpay and a W2G form. However, some other machines will also trigger handpays without a tax form for wins less than $1200. Some examples of these are progressive slot/video poker units and older machines in general, particularly former or current coin droppers. So if you play video poker for example, I would play single line quarter non-progressive machines.
Quote: tringlomaneAny machine that awards a single prize of $1200 or more (including your own wager) will ALWAYS trigger a handpay and a W2G form. However, some other machines will also trigger handpays without a tax form for wins less than $1200. Some examples of these are progressive slot/video poker units and older machines in general, particularly former or current coin droppers. So if you play video poker for example, I would play single line quarter non-progressive machines.
Also, progressive wins that are paid in full or in part by 3rd parties must be verified regardless of their size. And, especially at casinos where the cash machines only take tickets with values under $x, any single win over $x is hand-paid ($1000 is common, sometimes as little as $500. This won't come up at the properties we're discussing).
I always thought a hand pay was triggered at $1200 but I hit the royal below which triggered a hand pay. It was on a progressive though so maybe that is why. Next time I am at that casino I will ask them to see what their hand pay policy is.
The picture that I was trying to post was a hand pay for a progressive VP win at $1110
Can I not post pics on this forum? I tried copying links from photobucket like I do on other forums.
Quote: GWAE
Can I not post pics on this forum? I tried copying links from photobucket like I do on other forums.
You have to modify the link from photobucket a bit.
It has to look something like this (plus a closing endbracket):
[img=www.photobucket.com/my_account/my_royal.jpg
