Cost of becoming a Seven Stars player with the new TR system
Quote: supermaxhdWell, how is everyone doing so far?
I've been playing 9/5 JoB at Horseshoe Southern Indiana with $5 credits. In three visits I have accumulated 25,000 tier credits at a loss of about $3000 at VP. Mixed in with my VP play I have had a lot of luck with my Black Jack play to where I am up about $3500 overall for the year. I don't think my play has been perfect as I am still learning. I may continue my attempt at this at least one more day.
On my last trip a host introduced himself to me who said to let him know if I needed anything. This was a new experience for me.
I don't expect to go back for at least a couple of weeks.
I will soon have another place to go within a 2 hour drive with Horseshoe Cincinnati opening in early March.
At Southern Indiana, I think I play 9/6 JoB (99.54%), 9/5 Triple Bonus Plus (99.80%), or 8/5 Super Aces Bonus (99.94%) for $5/hand instead. It will cut down on the variance, and I could play 5000 hands of JoB in 5 hours or less personally.
http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/horseshoe-southern-indiana
Quote: AlanMendelsonI am now at 112,318 tier points with a net loss of $4,200. I am doing worse than I originally thought and part of the reason might be I sometimes switch between $2 Aces and Faces and $5 Aces and Faces. I have not had a royal yet, though I have played more than 40,000 hands.
My plan, remember, is to play 2,500 tier points per day so that I receive the "free" 5,000 bonus tier points. One night I planned my visit to arrive at midnight and I played for my 2500 tier points... then took a break and had something to eat... and came back for another 2500 tier points after 6-am, so in less than 12 hours I put on a total of 15,000 tier points.
Offsetting my loss at video poker was the $1250 fire bet win when I played some craps at Rincon (only one session), plus another couple of hundred net win, but I am not doing as well at Aces and Faces as I thought. One royal will change that, however. And while I am hopeful that I will hit one soon (I hit 11 in 2012) I have to remind myself that in 2011 I went through about 180,000 hands without a royal.
As it stands now I need fewer than 38,000 tier points to reach 7Stars again. At 7,500 points per day, thats five more visits. My goal is to get 150,000 tier points at Rincon with a net loss of $4,000 or less. I need a royal.
Are you sure you have played more than 40k hands? Your actual coin-in (minus craps action) can be as low as 112,318 x $10/3 =~ $374,393. Remember you get triple tier points if you gamble exactly 2500 Tier in a day. For $2 Aces & Faces, that amount of coin-in only ~37,439 hands. With no royal, it would be very difficult to hit 7 Stars without > $4000 loss.
Quote: tringlomaneAre you sure you have played more than 40k hands?
Most of my play was at $2 Aces and Faces. I received 25,000 in "bonus" tier points, which leaves 87,000 tier points from actual coin in. (some days I played more than 2,500 of coin-in play.)
To earn 87,000 tier points at video poker, coin in was $870,000.
If all of it was at $2/coin ($10 per hand) it represents 87,000 hands played.
I'm not very good at math, but here's what I figured:
Let me make the assumption that half of the coin in ($435,000) was at $5/coin amd that would be about 17,400 hands played, leaving $435,000 of coin in played at $2 ($10 per hand) for 43,500 hands and a total of about 60,900 hands played so far.
Im not including the craps play at all since I bet so little -- $5 pass, $5 fire, and a couple $5 place bets. I think I bet double odds after I made four points for a $125 return on the fire bet.
Quote: tringlomaneAt Southern Indiana, I think I play 9/6 JoB (99.54%), 9/5 Triple Bonus Plus (99.80%), or 8/5 Super Aces Bonus (99.94%) for $5/hand instead. It will cut down on the variance, and I could play 5000 hands of JoB in 5 hours or less personally.
How do you play a hand every 3.5 seconds?gambling problem? split tens!
Quote: tringlomaneAt Southern Indiana, I think I play 9/6 JoB (99.54%), 9/5 Triple Bonus Plus (99.80%), or 8/5 Super Aces Bonus (99.94%) for $5/hand instead. It will cut down on the variance, and I could play 5000 hands of JoB in 5 hours or less personally.
http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/horseshoe-southern-indiana
The 4th floor $2, $5 games are not in the vpfree survey. Anywhere I can find those?gambling problem? split tens!
Quote: tringlomaneAt Southern Indiana, I think I play 9/6 JoB (99.54%), 9/5 Triple Bonus Plus (99.80%), or 8/5 Super Aces Bonus (99.94%) for $5/hand instead.
Isnt Supere Aces bonus a high variance game?
Quote: supermaxhdQuote: tringlomaneAt Southern Indiana, I think I play 9/6 JoB (99.54%), 9/5 Triple Bonus Plus (99.80%), or 8/5 Super Aces Bonus (99.94%) for $5/hand instead. It will cut down on the variance, and I could play 5000 hands of JoB in 5 hours or less personally.
http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/horseshoe-southern-indiana
The 4th floor $2, $5 games are not in the vpfree survey. Anywhere I can find those?
Since they are worse paying machines, they are excluded. You really want to play the dollar games at S. Indiana.
Quote: supermaxhdHow do you play a hand every 3.5 seconds?
If you play a game a lot and have the speed high, and hit the deal/draw button to speed up bigger win collections, it's not that hard.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIsnt Supere Aces bonus a high variance game?
Yes, but when the expected loss for 8/5 Super Aces (only $300) is over 7 times less than 9/6 JoB, it does merit a little consideration. But the bankroll requirement to successfully complete the task with 95% certainty is likely to be much larger with 8/5 Super Aces (has ~50% more variance than DDB) than 9/6 JoB (~50% less variance than DDB). I would have to run sims for it to get clear numbers though. I have a feeling 9/5 TB+ would be the worst choice of the three when reasonably evaluating expected losses ($1000) and bankroll considerations (has similar variance to DDB), but I could be wrong.
And sorry teddys, that really sucks.
Quote: IbeatyouracesNot many places use tokens anymore. When I buy into the machine, I usually put in a grand at a time.
Thanks for your answer.
Quote: AlanMendelsonThe speed isn't the issue. It doesnt matter how fast you play. The key is to play a game with low variance such as 9/6 Jacks or 8/5 Bonus and be able to get 2500 tier points per 24 hour period so that you get the 5000 tier point bonus each day.
Low variance isn't a necessary requirement for everyone. It really depends on your end goal. If the final tally to reach Seven Stars means little to you because you're a multi-millionaire, you might as well play 99.94% Super Aces Bonus. If you can't afford to lose more than $10k over this endeavor, then you better be playing 9/6 Jacks for dollars (or even lower), or something with even lower variance. And speed does matter a little bit. Not everyone would want to spend 15+ hours per session just so they can earn Seven Stars. I would probably could something like that twice to make Diamond, but hell, I still might get bored of video poker by that point...lol Assuming the Cherokee blackjack machines earn Tier credits at the video poker rate, that would be a good machine to play for sure. I'm a bit surprised they still have those considering they now allow live blackjack.
I am approaching 60,00 tier credits on 7 2500 tier credit trips. Mostly playing 9/5 job at $5 credits as I don't want to have to play all day. I have lost about $5000 along the way on VP but mixed in the black jack tables have been quite kind to where I am about even overall now , although I did lose $6000 in one day, two trips ago playing VP and blackjack. If I were not losing at VP I probably wouldn't be playing so much catch up blackjack so I guess it evens out.
I had a casino host introduce himself which was a new experience for me. He told me to let him know if I need show tickets or help with travel arrangements to other properties. I haven't been to Las Vegas in a couple of years.
Not sure if I will continue (I wouldn't want to lose more then $2,000-$3000 for the year), I may try to make the 80,000 later in the year for the free air fare. Can I expect much or anything beyond the benefits advertised at the advertised tier credit levels? Any way to have gotten something from the host after the $6000 loss in a day? I have been mailed a few $90 table play coupons this month but last year when I was platinum I had several coupons for $125 or more. I can usually get free rooms now. I work during the week and live a couple of hours away so I haven't benefitted from the Monday-Tuesday multiplier days. I got in on a 15,000 rc bonus gift reward credit and can usually get food comps given to me at the blackjack tables so I I don't use my reward credits for food. I've heard some people getting gas cards. Do you have to ask and are those available at all properties? Other suggestions for maximizing my comps? Thanks!
The machine with the good-paying DW at Hammond is slow. There are two settings, regular and turbo. The turbo just blinks the cards on the screen, so that certainly would have been faster, but it gave me a headache so I stuck to the regular setting. After I hit the royal I lost the motivation to earn the 2500 points, plus I had an appointment to get to. Shame on me for quitting while ahead. The second session I earned the 2500 points but it took far too long. Both times a host gave me a meal comp: $35 to the buffet (didn't use), and a full comp for 2 to the noodle bar. (Spent $19.since I was by myself I didn't need the full comp, but their food is good!)
I made the Diamond level, so I now get a very small bonus on redeeming RC's for freeplay. You can't get cash for points anymore anywhere, as far as I can tell. You used to be able to get cash at Hammond. They don't allow that now. Now that I have hit the royal, I may continue play on the progressive 9/6 Jacks at Horseshoe Cleveland, which is faster although with higher variance than the Hammond game. I have a host there as well so will report back on what kind of comping they do.
Quote: teddysUpdate: I'm continuing the "Mendelsohn Method" of earning multiple CZR points. Playing 9/6 JOB with a progressive RF and 99.96% Deuces Wild at the $1 level exclusively. Hit a royal on the DW game, so that was nice, although would have preferred the progressive obviously.
Congrats on hitting the $ royal!
I think next year I'm going to go for 7* if they still have this "bonus" thing going...
Quote: IbeatyouracesThey must have just recently changed. I cashed my points for cash there within the last month.
For cash or freeplay? If they allow a cash conversion, that's news to me.
Yes, one hand only. I appreciate the congratulations but I was down almost the full value of the royal. The game is a little too swingy for me at dollars so I'm thinking of suspending play until I get a bigger bankroll. We'll see.Quote: tringlomaneCongrats on the Royal, teddys!!! Were you playing the Hammond machine one hand at a time?
Hammond said they stopped giving cash April 1.
Quote: teddysYes, one hand only. I appreciate the congratulations but I was down almost the full value of the royal. The game is a little too swingy for me at dollars so I'm thinking of suspending play until I get a bigger bankroll. We'll see.
Hammond said they stopped giving cash April 1.
But progressive 9/6 JoB has to have a worse Risk of Ruin than 99.96% Deuces, no? DW isn't that much more swingy in theory. In reality I understand though, Deuces Wild totally kicks my butt at quarters.
Saturday morning I drover over to Horse Shoe Cincinnati for the first time. Good to have another local choice (2hr drive) and a land based casino. It was really nice but has no attached hotel. I understand they have partnered with nearby hotels. It wasn't very busy at 10am. I looked around for a while and then in the high limits area I only found 9/5 JOB at $5 credits except for a machine someone was playing that had a full pay 9/6 table. I asked him about it and he thought there were only 2 like it in high limits and a small bank out on the floor with $2 credits.
Quote: dwo41So, here is my issue: I won 7 Stars status in the last online TR contest
Whaaaaaaa?
Quote: bigfoot66Whaaaaaaa?
Yeah, I know! It was the Escape to Total Rewards contest. They used to do all kinds of contests, but now they are really focusing on their Facebook casino. I'm not really into that, but I'm sure they have big prizes to be won.
Quote: dwo41So, here is my issue: I won 7 Stars status in the last online TR contest and even though it's only been 3 weeks of being treated like a high roller, there is no way I can go back to my Gold status, so I'm trying to figure some things out. I think Diamond status is easily attainable in two days of play with the bonuses. It takes at least 20 days of play to get Seven Stars status, but unfortunately I live 6 hours from the nearest Caesars owned casino, so the day trip idea is out. So, what are some thoughts on VP players playing on other peoples cards for a price? If you are making the 20+ trips anyway, and if you have extra money because of the payment you'd receive, you could play at a machine with a higher rate of return and have the bank roll to counter the variance. In the end, both players could have Seven Stars and the actual player would at least be even, if not ahead money. What are some thoughts and how much money would be a reasonable amount?
Probably a prosecutable offense. Since the value of 7 stars probably is in the thousands, you would likely be committing the fraud, and a conspiracy since you would have used an accomplice. That being said, it is probably doable until a W2G form needs to be filled out for a big win. I can't imagine that it is worth the risk.
Quote: SOOPOOProbably a prosecutable offense. Since the value of 7 stars probably is in the thousands, you would likely be committing the fraud, and a conspiracy since you would have used an accomplice. That being said, it is probably doable until a W2G form needs to be filled out for a big win. I can't imagine that it is worth the risk.
All thoughts are appreciated, so thanks for the input. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you however. Total Rewards has no rules against playing with another persons card. In fact, spouses and friends frequently play on the same card, hence the standard duplicate card issuance. There is also no fraud being committed because the game play is the same regardless of who is actually playing the game. If I were proposing a roulette or craps scheme in which our bets canceled each other out, then yes I can see them canceling both accounts. This is just giving someone money to play for them, winch happens thousands of times each day I'm sure.
Anyone else thought about playing for other people?
Quote: dwo41So, here is my issue: I won 7 Stars status in the last online TR contest
what "contest" is this? Is this some special promotion?
I wouldn't want to have someone else playing on your card, nor would you want to play on someone else's card. You might not get caught by why risk whatever headache it might present?
Quote: djatcSo what are the unwritten benefits to 7 star? Any multipliers (doubtful if it's CET) or freebies to make up the difference in getting there? I tried DIAD but failed miserably with a small bankroll.
Harrahs Rincon actually has some days during the month when there are "multipliers" for coin in for reward credits. reward credits can be used for routine comps but also to buy free play, gift cards, department store cards, gas cards, so yes there is that benefit. these types of promotions will vary with casino. I don't know of any Vegas casino that has multipliers for 7 stars.
Quote: SOOPOOProbably a prosecutable offense. Since the value of 7 stars probably is in the thousands, you would likely be committing the fraud, and a conspiracy since you would have used an accomplice. That being said, it is probably doable until a W2G form needs to be filled out for a big win. I can't imagine that it is worth the risk.
I dont think you would be prosecuted, but I think TR might slap your wrist and might even cancel out some earned points if they caught it.
You can always give the excuse "oops, I thought that was my card. Guess it's not."
Quote: AlanMendelsonI dont think you would be prosecuted, but I think TR might slap your wrist and might even cancel out some earned points if they caught it.
You can always give the excuse "oops, I thought that was my card. Guess it's not."
At the level of fraud he is trying to pull, they may ban his account if he got caught.
Why do you think the "Race to Rewards" last year forced 25 Tier points at every location in 2012? I still did it with my g/f, but only having to earn a single Tier credit at each location was a much, much better deal in 2011. With those rules, you can easily mail your buddy a TR card.
Then why do the Total Rewards desks demand to see photo ID when issuing original and duplicate cards?Quote: dwo41Total Rewards has no rules against playing with another persons card. In fact, spouses and friends frequently play on the same card, hence the standard duplicate card issuance. There is also no fraud being committed because the game play is the same regardless of who is actually playing the game.
At any rate, here is the start of the rules on the Total Rewards site. Where did you get your information from?
"Total Rewards® Rules and Regulations
1. By participating in the Total Rewards program (“Program”), participants agree to be bound by these rules and regulations.
2. Membership in the Program is free.
3. Must be of legal age to participate in Program and present valid, government-issued photo identification for proof of age in order to obtain a Total Rewards card and to redeem Reward Credits. Identification that is deemed acceptable is in the sole discretion of management and may vary by location.
4. The benefits of the Program are intended and solely for the use of the person listed on the account (“Member”).
5. A Member may not allow any other person to use his or her Total Rewards card or access his or her account. Total Rewards cards are non-transferable."
Quote: AlanMendelsonActually, about six or seven years ago, they did have "joint cards" for husband and wife. Then Harrah's got called in for various divorce cases because comp balances were huge on some couples' accounts and they fought over "who has the comps." That's when Harrah's decided to end their "joint cards" for husbands and wives because they didn't want to spend time with lawyers and in court. No kidding.
Sounds like a fun time at the cashier's cage/wherever they cash out comp points.
Quote: teddysWell, I'm aborting the quest. I was well on my way to giving back my royal, on the 9/6 $1 JOB, when I realized I didn't really want to continue. It is just to far above my bankroll to give so much negative play on dollars. I have made Diamond (so what?), so will get to keep that for a while. Good luck to those who are still trying.
Single-Line is just waaaay too difficult to use to achieve a certain score...MUCH easier to do it on multiplay (10c 10-play is the easiest I've found; but for CZR the best I can do is 25c 4-play)
Quote: TIMSPEEDSingle-Line is just waaaay too difficult to use to achieve a certain score...MUCH easier to do it on multiplay (10c 10-play is the easiest I've found; but for CZR the best I can do is 25c 4-play)
A high paying multi-line machine is nearly impossible to find at most CET properties. I think the highest I have seen is 3-play 9/6 DDB w/STP for quarters, and 5-play 9/6 DDB with Build a wheel for 5c, 10c, and 25c. But yes, splitting the coin-in amount over multiple hands if possible will help lower variance significantly. Most CET properties though, $1 single-line will be your lowest variance choice unfortunately.
Quote: tringlomaneA high paying multi-line machine is nearly impossible to find at most CET properties. I think the highest I have seen is 3-play 9/6 DDB w/STP for quarters, and 5-play 9/6 DDB with Build a wheel for 5c, 10c, and 25c. But yes, splitting the coin-in amount over multiple hands if possible will help lower variance significantly. Most CET properties though, $1 single-line will be your lowest variance choice unfortunately.
You gotta look around more ;)
I found 99.55% on 25c multiplay..
Quote: TIMSPEEDYou gotta look around more ;)
I found 99.55% on 25c multiplay..
Well, I know they exist in some places, but I have yet to go to every CET casino. :P I think I have only been to 10 CET properties outside of Vegas: STL (RIP), KC, Hammond, Joliet, S. Indiana, Cherokee, Metropolis, Roadhouse, Horseshoe and Harrah's Tunica. Rincon has 8/5 Bonus with Double STP (99.66%) for 5-play 25c and 50c according to VPFree. I tried to hint to Alan to play that machine because it's way more fun, but he didn't bite...lol
And you found full-pay Shockwave on multiplay? lol 9/6 JoB is 99.54%, 12/8/5 Shockwave is 99.55%.
Quote: tringlomaneAnd you found full-pay Shockwave on multiplay? lol 9/6 JoB is 99.54%, 12/8/5 Shockwave is 99.55%.
No, 8/5 BP QQ...
1. Bally's $5 JoB Single Line Play (99.54%)
2. Rio $1 Triple Play BP (99.17%)
3. Rio $0.25 Super X Pay 5 or 10 Play BP (98.28%)
I am not real comfortable playing $25 a hand, but if that is the best way to go then I don't have much choice. Anyone else aware of any better games at Caesar's properties in LV?
Quote: djatcAlso Horseshoe Hammond has a 99.96 DW44 game from 1 to 50 play.
Do you recall what the denomination is on that ?
Quote: JohnnyQDo you recall what the denomination is on that ?
http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/horseshoe-hammond
$1 50 play. only $250 a pop!
