Cost of becoming a Seven Stars player with the new TR system

I think with smart play and a little luck, you could become a 7 Stars player with day trips (no hotel stays required) for as little as $2,300 or less over the course of a year. At Rincon in San Diego the cost would be $4,000 or less over the course of a year.

To do this you must play 8/5 Bonus or Aces and Faces for 2,500 basic tier points over 20 days ($4,000 cost) or 9/6 Jacks at Caesars over 20 days for 2,500 tier points per day ($2,300) cost.

When you add in free play, bonus offers, comps, the cost drops and with a little luck you can become 7 Stars at zero cost or with a small profit.

The key is playing 2500 tier points ($25,000 coin in) per day for 20 days to maximize the bonus of 5,000 added tier points for those 20 days for 100,000 free points to make the 150,000 total.

Ive been playing 8/5 Aces and Faces at Rincon (9/6 Jacks is not available at Rincon) and already have 27,000 tier points since Jan 1st with a net loss of $400 cash, but I have earned about $160 in comps which I can convert to either $80 of free play or Shell/Arco gas cards.

At this rate I will reach 7 Stars at a cost of about $1,900 over 20 visits or $95 per visit.

Further details on my Forum: http://forum.alanbestbuys.com/showthread.php?1062-Strategy-for-the-new-Caesars-Tier-Credit-Bonuses

What is your expected gain on 7S as opposed to Diamond in terms of comps.

However you may or may not be accepted as a 7 Star member as it is by invitation only. There was something like this a couple years ago in AC where a Solid VP only player was not given 7 Stars. It may not be fair, but it is their game and it is in the rules. But either way, the comps would be very weak and a Gold player could easily have a higher ADT and get better promotions and offers if they played slots. The only benefit I see if accepted would be the annual trip gift, which is about the same as the 80000 new Diamond Tier and the $750 Flight Credit.

A sortof related question:

Does anyone know if the points per dollar for VP
varies from Horseshoe to Horseshoe property,
or would that all be set the same regardless
of location ?

thanks

They are all the same in the TR world. $10 in coin in a VP machine equals 1 Tier Credit. This is double the $5 for 1 TC in slots.
The only other machine that is different is that they have some Roulette machines that are $20 for 1 TC.

Also Alan as a note, I clicked on your link and it was my first time visiting your site. The linked posting including a bashing of the Wizard and Bob Dancer which in my opinion is probably not good advertising for your site. JMO, but after that, I didnt look any further.

Let me answer a few questions as best as I can:

Value of 7Stars vs Diamond. Well, there's the ego factor, the special lines, unlimited free rooms, special events and trips and offers, $500 anniversay dinner or $500 food comp, annual trip which includes air fare and $500 food comp, annual gift which I value at about $250, and again the ego factor. Long gone are the days when the Rio would name a suite after you and your name would be on the door on a bronze plaque. Now, they are also talking about "preferred rates" for redeeming comp dollars for free play.

7Stars by invitation only? Yes, that's right. If your markers aren't current they're not going to give it to you. If you fall behind on your markers they're going to take it away from you. If you punch a dealer in the mouth they're not going to want you. I don't think its like a country club where you have to be voted on by the board of directors. If you know someone who has played at the proper level and doesn't have a 7Stars ask them the real reason why?

According to Total Rewards all tier points are based on $10 for coin in at video poker, $5 per coin in for slots, and table games have various conditions which are not spelled out anywhere.

Im not pushing you to do this, Im just explaining that it now "costs less" than ever before to become a Seven Stars player. Yes, they cut the price of admission.

Quote: Boz

Also Alan as a note, I clicked on your link and it was my first time visiting your site. The linked posting including a bashing of the Wizard and Bob Dancer which in my opinion is probably not good advertising for your site. JMO, but after that, I didnt look any further.

I try to control as best as possible personal attacks but free and open discussions are permitted. Forum participants are permitted to point out when the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

Quote: AlanMendelson

According to Total Rewards all tier points are based on $10 for coin in at video poker, $5 per coin in for slots, and table games have various conditions which are not spelled out anywhere.

Thanks, I think that was my question.

Quote: Boz

They are all the same in the TR world. $10 in coin in a VP machine equals 1 Tier Credit. This is double the $5 for 1 TC in slots.

Yes, this is correct, and I believe $20 per tier right for rapid roulette as well (but not positive). With this in mind, one of the easiest/fastest ways to get to 7 Stars is at Horseshoe Hammond. They have 99.96% video poker for as high as $500 per hand.

http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/horseshoe-hammond

Yep, 20$ for digital roulette. Rincon also has JoB@500$/hand, though I'm not sure of the rate.

The jacks or better game on teh $100 per coin machine is 8/5. You are better off playing the 8/5 Aces and Faces game on the same machine.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Ive been playing 8/5 Aces and Faces at Rincon (9/6 Jacks is not available at Rincon) and already have 27,000 tier points since Jan 1st with a net loss of $400 cash

What denomination are you playing and where would I find this machine in Rincon? Thanks Alan..

Just curious, how do you put $25,000 in a VP machine? 5000 $5 tokens? 2500 $10 tokens?

I'm just wondering how you run $25,000 through a machine in one day.

deleted

So are you just cramming in the tokens?

deleted

Tunica Roadhouse in Mississippi offers a 99.96% DDB and a 99.96% Deuces Wild variant in increments of $.25, $.50, or $1. 25k/5 = 5000 hands of vp per day, so that's quite a workload even at the $1 level. Since I am an extreme flea and only play these games at the $.25 level when I am in Tunica with a total trip bankroll of around $200 or so per trip, I won't be achieving 7 stars anytime soon but it is nice to see that they are making these levels easier to attain. I just wonder if making the levels easier to get to will mean less goodies for those at the higher levels. I suspect that to be the case.

Quote: Boz

Also Alan as a note, I clicked on your link and it was my first time visiting your site. The linked posting including a bashing of the Wizard and Bob Dancer which in my opinion is probably not good advertising for your site. JMO, but after that, I didnt look any further.

IMHO, Bob Dancer is scum. When my gaming invention was demo'ed at the Gaming Convention, he didn't write nice things about the game. However, a few months later, he offered (for an undisclosed amount of money, which I suspect was in the thousands) to write a positive and glowing review of the invention for a major casino trade magazine.

He is just scum. I hate dishonest people like him.

Quote: SACR

Just curious, how do you put $25,000 in a VP machine? 5000 $5 tokens? 2500 $10 tokens?

I'm just wondering how you run $25,000 through a machine in one day.

It's not that hard. Let's say you play $1 single line machine. Max coin is $5 a wager and at 800 HPH, you are looking at $4K in coin-in per hour. So you are looking at 6+ hours of "work". You can do that in two three-hour sessions or so.

Quote: Dreamer

What denomination are you playing and where would I find this machine in Rincon? Thanks Alan..

fortunately, at Rincon ALL of the Aces and Faces games are 8/5 no matter the denomination. And ALL of the jacks or better games are 8/5 no matter the denomination. You will also find many of the traditional 8/5 Bonus poker games but some of the Bonus poker games have a pay table that pays the same for all quads and there is no premium for aces, deuces, treys and fours.

To be safe play 8/5 Aces and Faces which plays the same as 8/5 Bonus except that the premium hands are Jacks, Queens and Kings.

I prefer the no smoking area and there are about 24 machines with both 8/5 Aces and Faces and 8/5 Bonus with the traditional pay table. In the "video poker room" you will also find the games with denominations from 25-cents to $5. In the high limit room be careful because that is where the 8/5 Bonus games might have the pay table where all quads pay the same.

I played at Rincon again tonight and put through 2538 tier points on a $2 machine in the no smoking area. I hit quad aces for $800 and came away with an $800 profit on the evening plus I scored the 5,000 bonus tier points.

I now have a little more than 34,500 tier points from three sessions at Rincon (almost one-qiuarter of the tier points needed for 7 Stars again) and now I am showing a cash profit of $400. On the first two trips I had a net loss of $400.

I would have had a slightly bigger profit tonight but three times I was dealt four to the royal -- twice with a flush and once with a straight -- and of course I broke up the dealt winning hands to try for the royal. Had I not broken up those hands instead of an $800 profit on the evening it would have been $200 more, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do when you have four to the royal.

also tonight I found out about the "preferred redemption rates" for free play that start April 1st.

Currently you have to exchange 200 comp dollars for $100 of free play. But starting in April it changes for Diamonds and 7 Stars:

Diamonds: 175 comp dollars buys $100 of free play
7 Stars: 125 comp dollars buys $100 of free play

The 200 comps for $100 free play formula will continue for Gold and Platinum players.

By the way, my goal was to play only 2500 tier points tonight, but I played 2503 just to be sure. After cashing out my tickets and washing up I checked my tier credits one more time before heading to the car and discovered a lag in the metering of play which is why I left with 2538 tier credits on the night.

Besides the $400 cash net gain, I have about 300 comp dollars earned (approximately) which can be used later for hotel, free play, gas cards, dept store gift cards, etc.

My goal here is to see just how "cheap" I can score 7 Stars again with the new Total Rewards system. While my first session of the year was for more than 2500 tier points, from now on Im only going to play 2500 tier points per day to maximize the "bonus tier points" and that's it. Anyone else who follows this plan should be 7 Stars after 20 sessions.

edited to add: I had $1,000 with me but loaded only $500 in the machine plus I had $80 of free play on Sunday from a promotion. So in all I started with $580. I hit the quad aces after playing through about 1200 tier points. Also hit quad Queens for $400 and two smaller quads for $250 each (125 coins).

Thanks for the info I really appreciate. I thinking of trying this strategy as well. I have been practicing strategy with the wizards IPhone app like crazy and plan on trying my first session this weekend. I'm curious as to how long it takes you to get to the 2500. I know that with vp it's 1 tier credit for every $10 coin in, so if you playing the $2 machine for five credits getting 1 credit per hand, you'd need to go through 2500 hands. You mentioned that you have had a few 2500 credit sessions so far, how long have your sessions lasted. I'm trying to get an idea of what kind of time frame I can expect to be playing for. Once again, thanks for the info and advice.

I now have a little more than 34,500 tier points after three sessions. More importantly I now have a net profit of $400 on the three sessions not including comp dollars earned.

My first session had a lot of play and included $5 play. My second and third sessions were just enough to score 2,500 tier points and qualify for the 5,000 bonus.

I am going to try to go back Thursday night because I have $385 of free play Thursday and I figure that a bankroll of about $500 gives me a reasonable shot at hitting 2500 points at $2 aces and faces.

Alan,
Those machines at Rincon are my favorite! The one time we went there last February, we really liked the place and we managed to hit quad aces twice in one session!
For me though, 7* will be achieved as cheap as possible...with 25c 50-play 8/5 BP (playing 8 hands at a time, earning a TC per pop), playing over the course of 20 days, like you....see you past the velvet ropes...

I never looked at the 50-play machines. Do they also have 8/5 Bonus? Usually the 50-play machines have a lower pay table.

Quote: Dreamer

I know that with vp it's 1 tier credit for every $10 coin in, so if you playing the $2 machine for five credits getting 1 credit per hand, you'd need to go through 2500 hands. You mentioned that you have had a few 2500 credit sessions so far, how long have your sessions lasted. I'm trying to get an idea of what kind of time frame I can expect to be playing for. Once again, thanks for the info and advice.

You can play 600-800 hand/hr. There are a few things that affect speed.
1)Speed the machine is set to. Some casinos will let it go faster ask a slot attendant, but first check if the speed works for you.
2) How fast you can hit the buttons.
3) Practice, the more you play the better you memorize the proper strategy.

Please keep in mind when you play fast you will make mistakes, so find a speed you are comfortable with.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I never looked at the 50-play machines. Do they also have 8/5 Bonus? Usually the 50-play machines have a lower pay table.

They probably have a lower paytable in Rincon, but TIMSPEED mostly plays in Reno, iirc, where 50-play 8/5 Bonus exists for quarters.

The best multihand option Harrah's Rincon has, imo, is 5-play 8/5 Bonus with Double STP (99.66%) at the 25c or 50c level (7 credits per hand). But the variance of this game is over double that of Aces and Faces.

http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/harrahs-rincon

For my strategy, I don't want variance. I want to just break even (or as close to it) for as many hands as possible. I am trying to score 2500 tier points and lose as little money as possible.

Hello Alan et al:

Re Super Aces and other paytables, I would like
to at least advance a level (hopefully more) in
the Total Rewards program with the new
bonus Tier Credit system they just announced.

I am starting at ZERO this year.

So that's why I was looking at Horseshoe
Southern Indiana.

So, any opinions on what game best balances
the paytable (high) and the variance (low)
to get bonus tier credits at HSI ?

I have a pretty good handle on JoB and
Dueces Wild, but could practice any
game before actually making the trip
down there.

HSI VPFREE2

Figure on a bankroll of $ 400 to 500.

THANKS. I look forward to your
input if you care to share it.

For a $500 bankroll, and you want to give them $10k coin-in one day per month (or thereabouts)...
You want 5c multiplay 8/5 bonus poker....
Me personally, my bankroll is $500 for a certain casino, and I play 10c 10-play 8/5 bonus poker, and I easily achieve $10k coin-in once a month...
For harrahs, im giving myself a $1000 bankroll for 25c 8-play 8/5 bonus poker, to achieve $25k coin-in per day (in order to get low 7*)

Had my first session today gaining 2503 tier credits, plus the bonus 5000. I played the aces and faces, $2 credits and 5 credits per hand. Worked out pretty good, I ended the session up $800, hit quad aces once and a few quad faces. Didn't take nearly as long as I had expected to get the hands in. I plan on giving it another go tomorrow to take advantage of the reward multiplier.

Quote: Boz

However you may or may not be accepted as a 7 Star member as it is by invitation only. There was something like this a couple years ago in AC where a Solid VP only player was not given 7 Stars. It may not be fair, but it is their game and it is in the rules. But either way, the comps would be very weak and a Gold player could easily have a higher ADT and get better promotions and offers if they played slots. The only benefit I see if accepted would be the annual trip gift, which is about the same as the 80000 new Diamond Tier and the $750 Flight Credit.

q=AlanMendelson]
7Stars by invitation only? Yes, that's right. If your markers aren't current they're not going to give it to you. If you fall behind on your markers they're going to take it away from you. If you punch a dealer in the mouth they're not going to want you. I don't think its like a country club where you have to be voted on by the board of directors. If you know someone who has played at the proper level and doesn't have a 7Stars ask them the real reason why?

Acc.

CZR has finally updated their site with the new tier level requirements and such. In reading I did notice this gem which may or may not explain why a strong VP player in AC I know did not get 7 Stars and was told it was because of his type of play. He only plays close to perfect VP and according to him made money for the timeframe he earned the 7 Star 100K points. Again I believed him then and I still do.

From the CZR site>>>

Seven Stars status is by invitation only, and is not only based on your annual Tier Credit earnings. Once you have earned the required 150,000 Tier Credits within the year, your account will be reviewed. During the review process, many factors will be considered, including your level of play. If it is determined that you qualify for Seven Stars status, an invitation will be sent to you.

Of course theyre going to say its by "invitation only." What did you expect them to say?

Do I think your friend didn't get it because he is a great VP player? What is a strong VP player anyway? Can he count cards at the VP machine? I play perfect VP. In fact it's hard to not play perfect VP when you play bonus or aces and faces.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Of course theyre going to say its by "invitation only." What did you expect them to say?

Do I think your friend didn't get it because he is a great VP player? What is a strong VP player anyway? Can he count cards at the VP machine? I play perfect VP. In fact it's hard to not play perfect VP when you play bonus or aces and faces.

Do they say Diamond is by invitation only? This gives them an out when they have people who earn 7Star level play with little or no losses based on perfect or near perfect play. For a player like this the benefits they provide cost them more than they get from the player. You implied that he must have unpaid markers or such, where as I believe CZR is smart enough to have an out for players like this, nothing more, nothing less.

I am a blackjack player who had never plays VP or slots. I barely made platinum status the last two years. After reading this discussion I decided to give it a try and I didn't even have all of the basic strategy down. The first 1000 tier credits were easy and then it got a lot harder. By 2000 tier I had lost what I had won getting to 1000 tier credits plus some and then I had a couple 4 of a kinds at the end to get me back to even. I ended up with 2512 tier credits in 4-5 hours and down about $25. Now I already have 8000 tier credits and secured platinum status for another year in a single visit. Last year it took me about 12 visits to get 4000 tier credits.

150,000 tier credits over 20 days means a 1,000 plays at 5 $5 credits or 2500 plays at 5 $2 credits on each day. I would likely play somewhere around 30,000 hands over the 20 days to get to triple diamond if I decide to continue. I read on the Wizard's odds site the probability of the royal flush is 1 in every 40300 or so hands. Seems that in the end winning or losing will depend on hitting the royal flush somewhere along the way and little else. Am I thinking about this correct.

I am still confused with the simple strategy and hope to figure it out soon. If I am dealt a full house do you discard the pair to go for four of a kind?

I guess I answered my own question. Over 30,000 hands I might expect 5-6 Royal Flush's.

Royals come about once in about 40,000 hands depending on the video poker game played. In some games, because of the strategy involved, the chance of a royal might be as high as one in 48,000 (deuces wild where you never discard a deuce).

Quote: Boz

Do they say Diamond is by invitation only? This gives them an out when they have people who earn 7Star level play with little or no losses based on perfect or near perfect play. For a player like this the benefits they provide cost them more than they get from the player. You implied that he must have unpaid markers or such, where as I believe CZR is smart enough to have an out for players like this, nothing more, nothing less.

I don't know why your friend didnt get 7Stars. Are you sure he played enough coin in? Did he always play with his card?
When CZR says its by invitation only its because they are trying to make it more prestigious. It's not prestigious -- but they want it to be that way.
Its like how Cadillac used to market itself back in the 1960s.

Has your friend ever asked why he's not 7 stars and did they give him an answer? He should write a letter so that he gets a response in a letter.

Im not beholden to CZR for anything. If he can show me a letter that says he would otherwise be qualified for 7Stars but they are not giving it to him because he is too good of a player, I promise you I will put it on my website and on my TV show. CZR is not an advertiser -- and it's my show. I make the calls.

Quote: supermaxhd

I am still confused with the simple strategy and hope to figure it out soon. If I am dealt a full house do you discard the pair to go for four of a kind?

If you are playing aces and faces, bonus, or most other games you always hold a full house.
The exception is with Double Double Bonus or Triple Double Bonus and Royal Aces Bonus ONLY IF the full house includes three aces. In those games the aces are so valuable that you only hold the three aces.

Quote: Boz

q=AlanMendelson]
7Stars by invitation only? Yes, that's right.

Noir (MGM) is also by invite only. It's so rare, I've had dealers question if it's an MGM issued card.

Thanks, about how many hands are you playing per day to get the 2500 tier credits?

Quote: supermaxhd

Thanks, about how many hands are you playing per day to get the 2500 tier credits?

If he is still playing the $5 games it would be 1000 hands.

1000 hands per day over 20 days would be about a 50% chance of getting at least one Royal Flush. It seems you would lose well more than $2300 if you don't hit the Royal Flush. I am thinking of using a mix of $2 and $5 games.

Quote: supermaxhd

1000 hands per day over 20 days would be about a 50% chance of getting at least one Royal Flush. It seems you would lose well more than $2300 if you don't hit the Royal Flush. I am thinking of using a mix of $2 and $5 games.

No. For 8/5 Aces & Faces, going 20,000 hands without a royal is:

(40248.27/40249.27)^20,000 = 60.84%

Basically, you'll probably be up a decent amount if you hit a royal within 20k hands, or down a good chunk if you don't hit it. Especially if youre playing the $5 machine. The $2 machine will allow you to play more hands and smooth out the variance, but of course it will take 2500 hands a day for 20 days to hit 7 stars instead. Even with 50,000 hands, there is still about a 29% chance you don't hit the royal.

(40248.27/40249.27)^50,000 = 28.87%

deleted

Quote: AlanMendelson

I think with smart play and a little luck, you could become a 7 Stars player with day trips (no hotel stays required) for as little as $2,300 or less over the course of a year. At Rincon in San Diego the cost would be $4,000 or less over the course of a year.

To do this you must play 8/5 Bonus or Aces and Faces for 2,500 basic tier points over 20 days ($4,000 cost) or 9/6 Jacks at Caesars over 20 days for 2,500 tier points per day ($2,300) cost.

I think it's only fair that I give an update on my strategy. I now have 86,300 tier points (more than half of the way to 7Stars) as of Feb. 3rd, and with all of my play at Rincon I have a net loss of $4,500 in cash, less about $400 worth of gas cards that I have redeemed and still can redeem.

Clearly I am behind. I estimated my net loss to be no more than $4,000 to reach 150,000 tier points playing at Rincon.

Helping me -- and unexpectedly -- was the $1250 fire bet at Rincon craps that I hit when I played card craps on a whim (total win from that session was about $1300). Hurting me was that I lost more at 8/5 aces and faces than I thought I would.

By the way, the tier score of 86,300 represents "coin in" of $863,000 (table bets are counted the same as video poker) so I am down less than one-half of one-percent of my coin in so I am slightly ahead of the ER of 8/5 aces and faces -- but it was because of the craps win.

So far during the month I utilized about $2,000 of free play.

Quote: AlanMendelson

So far during the month I utilized about $2,000 of free play.

Are you factoring in the free play to your total cost?

Quote: teddys

Are you factoring in the free play to your total cost?

My net loss is what shows in my check book. Without the free play it would have been worse.

considering that I haven't had a royal flush yet (what is it worth 2% or something like that?) I still think I'm in relatively good shape.

I am making another update on Feb 5th: When I posted my update, my Total Rewards account did not reflect the 5,000 point bonus. It has now been added, so my actual TR total is 91,711 so there must have also been a lag in registering some points also from my last visit.

It still doesn't change my actual $$ lost but it puts me almost 2/3 of the way to the 150,000 point total.

Well, how is everyone doing so far?

I've been playing 9/5 JoB at Horseshoe Southern Indiana with $5 credits. In three visits I have accumulated 25,000 tier credits at a loss of about $3000 at VP. Mixed in with my VP play I have had a lot of luck with my Black Jack play to where I am up about $3500 overall for the year. I don't think my play has been perfect as I am still learning. I may continue my attempt at this at least one more day.

On my last trip a host introduced himself to me who said to let him know if I needed anything. This was a new experience for me.

I don't expect to go back for at least a couple of weeks.

I will soon have another place to go within a 2 hour drive with Horseshoe Cincinnati opening in early March.

I am now at 112,318 tier points with a net loss of $4,200. I am doing worse than I originally thought and part of the reason might be I sometimes switch between $2 Aces and Faces and $5 Aces and Faces. I have not had a royal yet, though I have played more than 40,000 hands.

My plan, remember, is to play 2,500 tier points per day so that I receive the "free" 5,000 bonus tier points. One night I planned my visit to arrive at midnight and I played for my 2500 tier points... then took a break and had something to eat... and came back for another 2500 tier points after 6-am, so in less than 12 hours I put on a total of 15,000 tier points.

Offsetting my loss at video poker was the $1250 fire bet win when I played some craps at Rincon (only one session), plus another couple of hundred net win, but I am not doing as well at Aces and Faces as I thought. One royal will change that, however. And while I am hopeful that I will hit one soon (I hit 11 in 2012) I have to remind myself that in 2011 I went through about 180,000 hands without a royal.

As it stands now I need fewer than 38,000 tier points to reach 7Stars again. At 7,500 points per day, thats five more visits. My goal is to get 150,000 tier points at Rincon with a net loss of $4,000 or less. I need a royal.