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rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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March 23rd, 2014 at 8:02:17 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Thanks for the suggestion, rx.



The mods only have to reply to any questions, "that suspension is not over 7 days, and no appeal".

End of story. Bingo.

up to 7 days ban hasn't killed anyone yet. (not that I know of)
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
24Bingo
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
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March 26th, 2014 at 1:18:02 AM permalink
The problem with that suggestion is the "Martingale policy."

Just like in the US criminal system, the punishment for minor transgressions is less important than the record. To have received a "brief" suspension is to be permanently subject to a longer suspension for further "offenses," and that fact merits an appeal.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
rxwine
rxwine
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March 26th, 2014 at 1:40:02 AM permalink
Quote: 24Bingo

The problem with that suggestion is the "Martingale policy."

Just like in the US criminal system, the punishment for minor transgressions is less important than the record. To have received a "brief" suspension is to be permanently subject to a longer suspension for further "offenses," and that fact merits an appeal.



I suggested it for the convenience of the operator of the board, not ours.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
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March 26th, 2014 at 2:22:46 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Thanks for the suggestion, rx.


Hello, beachbumbabs, I trust all is well with you. I am posting this message here because a discussion related to the enforcement of forum rules is best suited for this thread.

But first, I must implore everyone who is reading, please do not view this post as a childish, vengeful rant, for I have gone through painstaking efforts to cite specific posts/quotes in order to support my positions rather than leave myself open to the charge that I am simply making unfounded accusations.

Also, I want everybody to know from the outset that I am NOT:

1) appealing my suspension
2) questioning the forum rules themselves
3) arguing that the rules shouldn't be enforced

I've always said in the past that everybody should keep things in perspective and not get all worked up about getting suspended on an internet forum, so I will take my own advice. Instead, what I'd like to bring up is selective enforcement of the rules, which is relevant to every member of the forum.

Before I get into that, let me quickly provide an explanation about:
Quote: beachbumbabs

(next post to bw) And what else did I say in that post, Einstein? Oh, that's right...you didn't read the rest of it!

(next post to bw) You really need to have a talk with your fellow LGBTEWSLWQWLQ members. According to them, anyone who opposes gay marriage is "anti-gay".

Quote: beachbumbabs

he's calling bw stupid, though he's clever about it.

The third bw quote he's mocking the LGBT community, and its members on this forum including possibly bw, by adding all the nonsense letters, making it derisive and meaningless.


It's interesting that you found the "Einstein" comment to be an insult because you were directly asked about this before, and your response was this:

Quote: beachbumbabs

Quote: rxwine

What about comparing them to Einstein?

Such as, "Hey Einstein, that's not still not true no matter how many times you say it."

Edgy. I can see S&W saying it to the nearest Muppet. But still obviously meant as a sarcastic attack. So jury's out for me.


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/poker/17181-deathmatch-for-10k-paisiello-v-anonimuss-split-from-betting-when-small-blind/35/#post335846


My question is, how is "Einstein" a clear violation of forum rules when you admitted yourself that the "jury's out for me"? I had used your own words as a guideline and thought I was safe.

In regards to my second comment, the acronym I was trying to think of is: LGBTQQIP2SAA

It's a very long acronym, and I doubt that most people would remember it correctly off the top of their head. I didn't feel like doing a Google search right in the middle of writing that post, but I had no idea that typing an incorrect acronym would warrant a suspension. And for the record, I had thought that 'W' stood for "Whoever agrees with gays", but I was wrong. In the correct acronym, it's the 'A' that stands for "Allies of gays". Harmless mistake (or so I thought).

__________________________________________________


Let me return now to my original point: the selective enforcement of rules. Here are a few clever insults that ultimately got a pass:

Quote:

LarryS,

I think your stance on issues like these may be overtaking your common sense.


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/16783-min-wage-10-10/19/#post341910

If a suspension is justified for "Einstein" and "intellectually dishonest", then shouldn't this person also get suspended for implying that LarryS has no common sense? As people have been constantly reminding me, the forum rules are clear:

"Be civil...NO personal insults"

Quote:

Gamblor is a lost cause at best; why waste your breath?


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/17446-mathematicians-fallacy-baccarat/22/#post340736

NOTE: Gamblor was still a member in good standing at the time of this post, so he was protected from personal attacks. Calling him a "lost cause" appears to be an insult, don't you think?

Quote:

Done with this thread of garbage


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/17304-hillary-breaks-godwins-law/3/#post336175

AZDuffman's thread was referred to as being "garbage". One could argue that this is also an insult. For example, if I referred to the HOT HOT HOT GOGO BOYS thread as "garbage", I'm pretty sure that the OP would get offended.

Quote:

Axel, are you dyslexic? Should we be calling you Wolf?


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/blackjack/17295-i-need-to-know-the-mathematical-calculation/10/#post336793

Asking somebody if they are dyslexic (even if done in jest) could be taken as an insult. To use an analogy, if I asked a member if they were bipolar, I doubt they would like it. (Before someone interjects and states that AxelWolf did not take offense at the joke, I must point out that neither bw nor Twirdman had expressed offense at my humorous comments.)

Quote:

I'm beginning to think dj needs a tramp stamp on the base of his spine. Perhaps a street sign: "One Way: Do Not Enter"


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/17406-mandalay-bay-fined/2/#post339019

Once again, a harmless joke, but if this poster can get away with asking people if they are "dyslexic" and telling others that they should get a "One Way: Do Not Enter" tattoo above their derriere, then what's the harm in joking about someone being "shifty" (as in "shifting" their argumentative positions)?


However, the most interesting observation of all is that the above posts were written by you. Even more surprisingly, in the first example (where you sarcastically implied that LarryS doesn't have any common sense), you wrote that just one day prior to suspending me for saying "Einstein" and "intellectually dishonest".

How's that for irony?

__________________________________________________


Meanwhile, ams288 made some derogatory comments as well. You participated in the same thread, so I assume you read his remarks before locking the thread, yet the "Be civil...NO insults" rule was neither enforced nor was a warning issued.

Here are the offending posts:
Quote: ams288 to Beethoven9th

What a stupid, stupid question.


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/glbt-corner/17219-gay-marraige-gay-rights/12/#post336404

Quote: ams288 to Beethoven9th

you're just a common lowlife who puts words in other people's mouths.


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/glbt-corner/17219-gay-marraige-gay-rights/14/#post336502

Quote: ams288 to Beethoven9th

It's justified to call a person a lowlife when they've called you a hypocrite based on nothing but their sad imagination.


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/glbt-corner/17219-gay-marraige-gay-rights/15/#post336526

Quote: ams288 to Beethoven9th

otherwise I will be justified in referring to you as a lowlife liar


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/glbt-corner/17219-gay-marraige-gay-rights/15/#post336585

Three instances (in the same thread) of a member calling another member a "lowlife". Again, you locked the thread, so I assume that you read all of these posts, yet they were ignored. I can understand one of these insults slipping by, but three?

Also, compare these 2 quotes:
Quote: ams288 to Beethoven9th

YOU, sir, are the most intellectually dishonest person on this board.

Result: Pass


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/glbt-corner/17219-gay-marraige-gay-rights/15/#post336537

Quote: Beethoven9th

But you people are intellectually dishonest and won't even admit that I didn't even use the words "predisposed" or "guaranteed"!

Result: Suspension

This is the main reason why I had assumed that "intellectually dishonest" was within the forum rules. It's very confusing to members when they see a comment on the board, figure it's OK to say the same thing themselves, but then they get punished for it while other members get off scot-free. This gives the appearance of selective enforcement.

I haven't had the time to go through other members' posts for additional examples, but I know they exist, and I can look into it further, if need be. I'm sure s2dbaker's posts will be a treasure trove.

(Before somebody brings up the fact that s2dbaker got suspended along with me, I would like to remind them that he got suspended by a different moderator who didn't see the rule violation until much, much later. The moderator who suspended me saw s2's rule violation before locking the thread, ignored it, and instead gave s2 some helpful advice saying: "please at least label it [RE: sarcasm] as such if you must say it in the first place".

I sure wish I had gotten friendly advice like "please at least label it...if you must say it in the first place": http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/17450-the-lgbt-military-shower-debate/11/#post342043 )

(And I know that someone will also bring up the fact that ams288 got suspended for calling me a "bigot", but I will again point out that he was punished by a different moderator who didn't see the violation until much later.)

I do want to add that my goal here is NOT to get ams288 or s2dbaker suspended. I merely want to highlight the fact that you suspended me for using "Einstein" and "intellectually dishonest", while ignoring violations that were far worse (such as "lowlife liar" & an ugly, ugly rape joke aimed at djatc).

___________________________________


At first I didn't know what to make of such (apparent) inconsistencies, but then I remembered this post, which seems to acknowledge selective enforcement of the rules:

Quote: beachbumbabs

Nareed has more moderator support than she will ever know or likely acknowledge


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/17308-need-for-clear-dt-wov-rules/2/#post336608


My question is, why does Nareed get "more moderator support" than the rest of us? Are ams288 and s2dbaker also on the whitelist? For that matter, are you on the whitelist too? I'm pretty sure I'm not.

To illustrate:
Quote: Nareed

Ok, Einstein. But it takes days of visiting computer supply stores in downtown Mexico City to get the components.


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/casual-corner/14308-windows-8-must-be-destroyed/8/#post253175

Quote: Nareed

Why are you discussing your deity in a gambling forum, Einstein?


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/casual-corner/6443-does-god-exist/10/#post90698

With this in mind, I had thought that "Einstein" was OK to say, but that appears to be true only for members who receive "more moderator support than they will ever know or likely acknowledge".


____________________________________


In closing, I would like to repeat that I am neither questioning the forum rules themselves nor appealing my suspension. I am also NOT arguing that others should be suspended just because I was. I'm simply bringing up selective enforcement because it is an issue that is relevant to everybody on the board.

I also want to repeat that I went to great lengths to cite references to support everything I've said, so please do not mistake this post for a lengthy, gratuitous rant. Rather, this is an inquiry into: (1) whether or not a moderator should set an example for the forum OR if they are exempt from the rules, and (2) why members at large are prohibited from saying things like "Einstein" and "intellectually dishonest", while those who receive "more moderator support" get a pass for more serious offensives (e.g., calling someone a "lowlife liar" three times in the same thread).

Thank you for listening.

Stay well, and I wish it all for you...hey hey
Fighting BS one post at a time!
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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March 26th, 2014 at 4:03:14 AM permalink
wow that isnt too long, I bet one of these days when we get 20 feet of snow and still have power, I'll read it
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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March 26th, 2014 at 4:07:35 AM permalink
Of course it is selective enforcement. It's like referees at an NHL game. Sometimes they let things go, and sometimes they don't.

First, we've been told that those members with more posts are held to a higher standard than those with fewer posts. So, ams' insults and derogatory remarks are held to a lower standard than like remarks from members with more posts.

Second, I feel that your "volume of work" generally comes across as quite argumentative and derogatory. You skirt the line a great deal of the time, I feel, falling just short of a blatant insult, but insulting none-the-less. I was banned a couple of years ago for a remark that I felt wasn't bad at all compared to what others had posted, but I was being held to a higher standard.

Quote: Beethoven

But first, I must implore everyone who is reading, please do not view this post as a childish, vengeful rant, for I have gone through painstaking efforts to cite specific posts/quotes in order to support my positions rather than leave myself open to the charge that I am simply making unfounded accusations.

Also, I want everybody to know from the outset that I am NOT:

1) appealing my suspension
2) questioning the forum rules themselves
3) arguing that the rules shouldn't be enforced



You've told us what not to view or what you aren't doing... so what ARE you trying to say?

This forum is governed by the moderators, who can do with us as they will. This, like Obama's regime, is not a democracy.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
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March 26th, 2014 at 4:10:58 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

so what ARE you trying to say?

Please read the post. It was clearly stated at the end.


Edited to add:
Quote: boymimbo

So, ams' insults and derogatory remarks are held to a lower standard than like remarks from members with more posts.

So members with fewer posts can call other members "lowlife liars" three times in the same thread with no repercussions? Thank god you don't run the forum, my friend!
Fighting BS one post at a time!
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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March 26th, 2014 at 4:17:28 AM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

Please read the post. It was clearly stated at the end.



I read your post. You could have just asked the question.

Quote:

But first, I must implore everyone who is reading, please do not view this post as a childish, vengeful rant, for I have gone through painstaking efforts to cite specific posts/quotes in order to support my positions rather than leave myself open to the charge that I am simply making unfounded accusations.

Also, I want everybody to know from the outset that I am NOT:

1) appealing my suspension
2) questioning the forum rules themselves
3) arguing that the rules shouldn't be enforced



Restate:

I am going to give a number of example where members posted things to cite specific posts/quotes in order to support my position, which is:

1) I feel that my suspension is unfair.
2) Rules should be enforced evenly among all members.
3) The terms of what an insult is (or any other rule violation) should be well defined and applied equally to everyone.

...
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
RonC
RonC
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
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March 26th, 2014 at 4:17:35 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

This forum is governed by the moderators, who can do with us as they will. This, like Obama's regime, is not a democracy.



I have higher expectations of them than I do of Obama's regime!
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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March 26th, 2014 at 4:19:10 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

I have higher expectations of them than I do of Obama's regime!



...had to throw in a bone so that Beethoven would feel better. Getting banned once is a badge of honor. It shows that you care.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

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