If you're a Pit Boss, what ruling would you make?

I just came back from a long weekend in Vegas (at the GN). Now, how do you rule on this situation....

There is a full Blackjack table with a 6 deck shoe. The person on first base is, in fairness to the dealer, somewhere between drunk and stoned. The dealer is showings an 8. The hand runs it's course until the point where the dealer shows her cards (18 with two cards).

Winnings and losings are exchanged until first base complains that the dealer didn't give him cards when he said to hit. He's holds a 6 via a 2 and 4. He wanted cards from the shoe right then although it didn't seem right since he already knew the dealers hand. You couldn't shift the dealt cards backwards either.

Now, you're obviously not going to stand on a 6 but the dealer should have clarified your intentions. Still, the player didn't say boo until he lost the hand. On top of that he was getting out of hand with his behavior to make matters worse.

After consulting with the eye in the sky folks the pit boss ruled that his signal wasn't clear so TS, you lose. Still, I think the dealer had a duty do reconfirm that someone actually wanted to stand on a 6.

How do you rule? My feelings was that they just should have voided his hand.

Quote: Lovecomps

Still, the player didn't say boo until he lost the hand. On top of that he was getting out of hand with his behavior to make matters worse.

'nuff said right there!

I side with the GN on this one. Somehow I have a feeling this player was rude and/or obnoxious to the dealer before this hand. I have noticed for 30 years now that dealers are more polite and give better service when they are being treated nicely and tipped. Maybe if I saw the tape I would change my mind if the player were behaving himself, but I'm assuming this isn't the case. My two cents.

Most dealers i play with would need to see a very clear cut “Stay” signal on a player hand of 6 before moving onto the next player. The most surprising thing to me about this story is that the video showed an unclear signal from that player.

Somewhere between drunk and stoned....

He should have probably been sh*t canned from the getgo. Maybe it's just me but I have zero tolerance for drunk gamblers. Always a problem.

With an unclear signal, I would unfortunately have to side with the player. It's the dealer's job to get a clear signal, especially for an off-the-wall play like staying on hard 6. I'm assuming the dealer simply missed him.

That said, this is probably that player's last hand. He will be backed off for intox and asked to leave.

A verbal check paired with a gesture to reconfirm with the player would have been a good move. If the player made a signal that was iffy but waited to complain, that's their fault. I have less sympathy for gamblers under the influence with poor behavior. If that player was bothering others I'd be a bit less forgiving. If the signal really was ambiguous I'd give them the hit opportunity, but it's all situational.

I would say if it is not it should be a procedure rule that if a player stands on an unbustable hand and for sure a total of <=11 that the dealer stop and confirm verbally that the player wants to stand. Ask them to regesture to stand before moving on. Same as if you ask for a hit on an obvious stand and the dealer will ask "are you sure" before moving on.

That being said, the truth is you are a grown up playing a grown up game. Deal with your mistake like a grown man (or woman.) I can say from dealing at the party night (not real money) level that there are players who just do not want to pay attention to the game no mater how often you remind them of things. Said players will not pay attention until it costs them.

As a Pit Boss I would check the tape, but in the end I would tell the player, "you had a 6 and you had plenty of time to prepare for the hand, sorry, loss stands." Off the floor I would casually tell the dealer to be more careful.

When you have a drunk or stoned individual...first off, all logic or reasoning is out the window in terms of asking or questioning him.

Who knows...maybe this is his second or third time doing this and the dealer lost patience asking.

He probably looked up at her, gave her a stoned smile as she asked...and she was like "screw this", goes to the next player.

When dealing with drunks...rational discussion, rational thinking, rational questioning ends. If there's any blame, it's first on the drunk. Next blame goes to the casino for not pulling the plug. I have zero sympathy for any casino that allows a drunk to gamble and then finds themselves in the middle of a wager issue.

Quote: AZDuffman

As a Pit Boss I would check the tape, but in the end I would tell the player, "you had a 6 and you had plenty of time to prepare for the hand, sorry, loss stands." Off the floor I would casually tell the dealer to be more careful.

If he didn't understand he had a hard 6 to hit...I doubt he understands any rational explanation. Get him out.

Quote: TDVegas

Next blame goes to the casino for not pulling the plug. I have zero sympathy for any casino that allows a drunk to gamble and then finds themselves in the middle of a wager issue.

Good point. In my 33 years casino gambling I've only twice seen a drunk made to quit playing. In both cases, the players were extremely drunk.

Quote: Wizard

Good point. In my 33 years casino gambling I've only twice seen a drunk made to quit playing. In both cases, the players were extremely drunk.

You'd see it a lot more in WA, where it's illegal to let an intoxicated person gamble.

Lot of competing ideas here. If the casino wants (as they all do) drunk patrons who play poorly, then they must also cater to that crowd. In the same tone if the guy was being drunk/stoned and NICE about it all that would instantly lead me to help him... however if he was an annoying abnoxious idiot betting near table min, I'm also fine with him leaving if he doesn't have a legit case.

I'd like to ask the OP, since it sounds like he was at the table and I'm sure noticed this happen... What happened on his turn? Do YOU believe he correctly signaled hit? That's what it would come down to for me if I actually saw the situation. If I felt he did hit, or even that it was "unclear" then I think it's on the dealer to clarify. I think that's literally part of their job if the signal is unclear (which the PB came back and said). So at this point can't back the cards up, I'd give him a 1 time warning and rule his hand "no action" and I'd also ask the dealer to ensure the players give clear and concise signals so this doesn't happen again. If the guy gets any more unruly or tries this again, I'd probably bounce him.

Quote: Wizard

Good point. In my 33 years casino gambling I've only twice seen a drunk made to quit playing. In both cases, the players were extremely drunk.

Many years ago I was sitting at a BJ table with O.J. Simpson. He was so drunk they finally made him leave the table.

I've seen several drunks on shoot to win craps. It's not a pretty scene. One tried talking to me...I kind of just put my hand up "dude, I don't need the buffalo talk". They don't make sense. I'll watch from afar because sometimes it can be entertaining....but I'm certainly not going to be engaging them. My only hope is they aren't locals getting in their vehicle. I suspect some are.

They generally lose everything within a few minutes with stupid betting.

Quote: DRich

Many years ago I was sitting at a BJ table with O.J. Simpson. He was so drunk they finally made him leave the table.

Before they thought he'd allegedly kill someone, right?

Quote: Romes

Lot of competing ideas here. If the casino wants (as they all do) drunk patrons who play poorly, then they must also cater to that crowd. In the same tone if the guy was being drunk/stoned and NICE about it all that would instantly lead me to help him... however if he was an annoying abnoxious idiot betting near table min, I'm also fine with him leaving if he doesn't have a legit case.

I'd like to ask the OP, since it sounds like he was at the table and I'm sure noticed this happen... What happened on his turn? Do YOU believe he correctly signaled hit? That's what it would come down to for me if I actually saw the situation. If I felt he did hit, or even that it was "unclear" then I think it's on the dealer to clarify. I think that's literally part of their job if the signal is unclear (which the PB came back and said). So at this point can't back the cards up, I'd give him a 1 time warning and rule his hand "no action" and I'd also ask the dealer to ensure the players give clear and concise signals so this doesn't happen again. If the guy gets any more unruly or tries this again, I'd probably bounce him.

I think he ignored his cards and din't make a clear signal. While not part of her job the dealer should have double checked him but maybe she was fed up with him. I caught it at the time because it was odd but didn't say anything because I was sick of the guy. I'm sure that you've been at tables where you were hoping someone lost just so they'd go away.

Quote: Romes

Before they thought he'd allegedly kill someone, right?

Yes, it was probably around 1992. I was playing at the Tropicanaand O.J. was at the same table as Dwight Clark. Dwight was trying to convince him to leave but O.J. was so drunk that he kept falling asleep at the table and the dealer would have to wake him to play his cards.