Slot Comps for different games

I recently viewed one of the Wizard's Youtube videos talking about Slot FAQ's. Not being a big slot player, one of the Wizard's comment shocked me. He says that when it comes to rewards programs (comps), casinos treat a $1.00 slot player better than of a $100.00 Blackjack player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2puTICuffs

Is this true of all slot machines, in particular, say a video poker machine or a blackjack slot machine where the player has some interaction and control of the game or only the pure random number one armed bandits? Short of getting payed 3 to 2 (or at worst 6 to 5) at a table, the slot machine versions of blackjack only guarantee a 1 to 1 payout. But would it be better to play a blackjack slot machine at $1.00 a hand or at the table where most casinos say you have to bet a minimum of $25.00 a hand before they'll even start to track your play if you're trying to build up comps?

There is a speed trade off I imagine that gets factored in. If you're playing at a table, then the number of hands per hour is dependent on how many players are at the table (along with how fast/fun the dealer is.) At a slot you can play a lot more hands per hour (depending how fast you "want" to play.) I'm sure the casinos are well aware of details like this so I suppose a related question would be how many hands do casinos assume you'll play an hour on a video poker or blackjack slot or does a hand per hour calculation not get factored in at all and is it based on how many hands you play at a machine, period? The number of hands you play at a standard random number machine is just however many you play, but since you do have to interact with card game slots, do casinos adjust how they rate those types of slots differently?

Quote: drsamurai

I recently viewed one of the Wizard's Youtube videos talking about Slot FAQ's. Not being a big slot player, one of the Wizard's comment shocked me. He says that when it comes to rewards programs (comps), casinos treat a $1.00 slot player better than of a $100.00 Blackjack player.

Be certain you know what "$1 slot player means." It means, I'm 99.9% certain, people who play $1 slot machines. Since these can have several lines, I think as many as 30, that means $30 a pull (unless you can bet more credits per line; I'm not sure about that). The equivalent in, say, a 5 hand $1 VP machine would mean $25 per deal.

Since slots play faster than BJ and pay worse, the $1 slot player will lose a great deal more per hour of play. naturally the casinos will comp more.

Quote:

Is this true of all slot machines, in particular, say a video poker machine or a blackjack slot machine where the player has some interaction and control of the game or only the pure random number one armed bandits?

Not sure about BJ machines, but VP machines typically acrue "slot" points at a fraction of that in regular slot machines. I'm not sure what the ratio is, but ti can be as little as 50% or even 30%

I don't think the Wizard's video specifies what a "$1 slot player" means, unless he describes it in a way that only a regular slot player would pick up on. The Wizard's video gives me the impression that he is equating a $1 slot bet to a $100 table blackjack bet, but I see where it isn't completely clear. The idea of playing either multiple rows or hands of VP (or as I recall, playing a VBJ machine that deals out 7 hands at a time.) would "up" the multiple of $1 bets per button press. In the end you could spend as much per slot spin as you do per base comp requirement at a table game.

Because of the amount of player decision making for VP vs. any random number slot, I can understand why the comp ratio could be reduced. If comps are given out for VBJ at all, I would expect a percent reduction in slot points similar to what you mentioned.

The $1 vs. $100 play is the bigger question.

Those video blackjack games (not the ones with multiple players, but the ones found on many video poker consoles) usually have house edges in the 4-5% range. That's better than most slots. If you can find a VBJ game that pays out points at the slot, rather than the video poker rate, it can be a good play for comps and cashback.

Quote: teddys

Those video blackjack games (not the ones with multiple players, but the ones found on many video poker consoles) usually have house edges in the 4-5% range. That's better than most slots. If you can find a VBJ game that pays out points at the slot, rather than the video poker rate, it can be a good play for comps and cashback.

In my travels, I've only found one casino that offers those VBJ machines at the slot rate. I'm not sure if they still do or not, but if you are interested, you can PM me and I'll be happy to send the information to you.

A slot player who plays 3 $1 credits per a pull generates more money for the casino than a black chip BJ player. At 60 hands per hour (somewhat fast play), the BJ player bets a total of $6,000 per hour, and at a 1% house edge loses $60 on average. The slot player can pull that handle very quickly, a conservative estimate would be 6 pulls a minute. so he is making 360 bets an hour, times $3 per bet is $1080 total bet. At a 7% house edge, he loses $75.60 per hour. Even overestimating the BJ loses and underestimating the slot losses, we see that the slot player loses 25% MORE than the $100 BJ player in the same time.

It is true that the BJ player could lose $1000 in a few bad minutes of play, but he is also more likely to win a pile of money than the slot player.

Does this answer the question for you?

Quote: bigfoot66

A slot player who plays 3 $1 credits per a pull generates more money for the casino than a black chip BJ player. At 60 hands per hour (somewhat fast play), the BJ player bets a total of $6,000 per hour, and at a 1% house edge loses $60 on average. The slot player can pull that handle very quickly, a conservative estimate would be 6 pulls a minute. so he is making 360 bets an hour, times $3 per bet is $1080 total bet. At a 7% house edge, he loses $75.60 per hour. Even overestimating the BJ loses and underestimating the slot losses, we see that the slot player loses 25% MORE than the $100 BJ player in the same time.

It is true that the BJ player could lose $1000 in a few bad minutes of play, but he is also more likely to win a pile of money than the slot player.

Does this answer the question for you?

Big foot nailed it. Plus true slots are mindless. you just tap the button or pull the lever and see what happens.

Thanks. Like I said, not being a slot player, I never thought of the numbers this way. The more I think about it, a person might get a big payout on a standard slot machine, and even with VP you might catch a straight flush payout, but VBJ would never give you that kind of big payout. With VBJ you'll only get a 1:1 payout so the potential win/loss is probably very different compared to a standard slot machine.

It would be interesting to see the math of comparing Slots (or VP/V-BJ) vs. Table Blackjack to see how casinos calculate their comps. If the casinos give more comps to slot players vs. table players, then I'm sure they've done the math and figured a fair compensation. Even without knowing the numbers, I find it hard to believe that casinos would give more comps to someone where the risk was the same. It would not make sense to give more comps to a $1 slot player than a $100 table player unless the casino expects to make more profit on the slot player in the long run.

If player risk was equal, then all gamblers would play the games that give them the most comps, and I'm sure the casinos know that.

Quote: drsamurai

It would be interesting to see the math of comparing Slots (or VP/V-BJ) vs. Table Blackjack to see how casinos calculate their comps. If the casinos give more comps to slot players vs. table players, then I'm sure they've done the math and figured a fair compensation. Even without knowing the numbers, I find it hard to believe that casinos would give more comps to someone where the risk was the same. It would not make sense to give more comps to a $1 slot player than a $100 table player unless the casino expects to make more profit on the slot player in the long run.

There used to be VBJ machines at the Atlantis in Reno that paid 3:2 and all that jazz and had a comp rate of .335% base (with available 4x multiplier, which made it up to 1.25%)
Alas they took them out...

I just got an email from the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas. I don't know if the info in the email is a special deal or part of their standard policy but they list the rewards information in the email as follows:

5 IDENTITY POINTS for every $1 spent on hotel, dining, shopping or spa, which is equal to $5 Resort Credit for every $100 spent.

1 IDENTITY POINT for every $20 wagered on table games.

1 IDENTITY POINT for every $1.50 wagered on reel slots or $7.50 wagered on video poker.

So for the cost of a single hand of table Blackjack, you could play 2 and a half hands of VP and 13 and a third pulls on a reel slot machine. It looks like the slot play would give you more rewards points which is the impression I got from the Wizard's video.

I think it's reasonable to imagine all major strip casinos are close to that. They have to be competitive.

If there truly is a higher payout to slot players than table players, then casinos must assume a different expectation of return. Casinos rarely do things where they aren't maximizing their advantage so if they can afford to give more rewards for slots then it has to be factored how many table games they have and the employees they have to pay to run them vs. the hundreds if not thousands of slots that just sit their 24/7 waiting to collect customer money with little or no employee cost.