Macau Gaming Revenue is out of control
Quote: andysifCorruption in China is so bad that after a recent fall of a top military official they found so much cash in the basement of one of his house that the "police" cannot count it but had to measure it by weight.
It weights about a ton.
I had to check this out myself...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/20/us-china-politics-corruption-idUSKCN0J412Q20141120
At least the Chinese penalize these people. Charlie Rangel is still in the House.
Quote: ahiromu
At least the Chinese penalize these people. Charlie Rangel is still in the House.
Actually this is very rare.
Corruption is rampant in China. Most get away with this.
This guy probably forgot to pay off somebody.
Quote: terapinedActually this is very rare.
Corruption is rampant in China. Most get away with this.
This guy probably forgot to pay off somebody.
Corruption has been, and will continue to be, the "de facto" crime assigned to losers in power struggles in China.
Quote: andysifA side note.
Corruption in China is so bad that after a recent fall of a top military official they found so much cash in the basement of one of his house that the "police" cannot count it but had to measure it by weight.
It weights about a ton.
Well the largest banknote in China is the 100 Yuan = US$16.32 . So a ton of the largest banknote is about US $1.5 million, and we can reasonably presume that if the money is earned illegally it must come in smaller denominations than 100 Yuan.
You can get $1.5 million into a large briefcase in the USA, and into a large billfold in 500 Euro notes.
Quote: ShineyShinepacomartin and nickolay, yous both seem very knowlegeable and clued up about about Macau. So, in your opinion, what do you think are the long term effects of this? The article mentions a broken business model... are they really that reliant on a few high rolling whales that are defauliting?
Keep in mind that Macau makes about 7 times the revenue as Vegas strip on less than half the number of visitors. Given that Vegas is the place where Americans go to be out of control, I don't think you can explain that vast difference by cultural norms. Especially given that the average chinese has so much less disposable income.
Ultimately it has to come down to money laundering.
Quote: pacomartinWell the largest banknote in China is the 100 Yuan = US$16.32 . So a ton of the largest banknote is about US $1.5 million, and we can reasonably presume that if the money is earned illegally it must come in smaller denominations than 100 Yuan.
You can get $1.5 million into a large briefcase in the USA, and into a large billfold in 500 Euro notes.
I found an article that have done a calculation on the amount in question.
One RMB 100 bill weights 1.15 gram, a ton is about RMB 87 mil, or US 10mil
Graft and corruption are so common that in the USA some Orientals who have been fired from government jobs in the USA have still been able to collect unemployment insurance while in prison claiming ignorance of US practice of governmental honesty, an utterly unknown concept in their society.Quote: pacomartinUltimately it has to come down to money laundering.
I believe that IRS task force that hot footed it off to Mccau largely came back chattering to themselves.
Quote: FleaStiffDecember gaming revenue in Macau dipped for first time .......30.4 percent dip. See: CassinoCity news.
Well it has been dropping since June. It was down 24% in November, and down 30.4% in December. Losses in the last half of the year have wiped out gains from the first half so thatMacau has had it's first YoY annual decline in gaming revenue.
Surprisingly Sands Corporation revenue in China alone for the first 9 months in China is up 15.95% while the rest of the corporate revenue (Bethlehem, Singapore, Vegas is up 1.09%. That hasn't prevented the stock from tanking as people read the news. Sheldon's personal net worth is down by $11 billion.
On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 Sands will report their fourth quarter results. The assumption is that Sands did not get out unscathed, and will suffer a YoY decline for the quarter, but I don't think it will be bad enough to wipe out the 15.95% increase for the first 9 months.
Quote: pacomartinOn Wednesday, January 28, 2015 Sands will report their fourth quarter results. The assumption is that Sands did not get out unscathed, and will suffer a YoY decline for the quarter, but I don't think it will be bad enough to wipe out the 15.95% increase for the first 9 months.
Macau's disastrous 4th quarter with a 25% drop in YoY gaming revenue. Dollars in billions USD (gaming only).
| 2014 | 2013 | YoY | YoY% | Qtr |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| $13.2 | $11.0 | +$2.2 | +19.8% | 1st |
| $11.7 | $11.1 | +$0.6 | +5.5% | 2nd |
| $10.7 | $11.5 | -$0.8 | -7.1% | 3rd |
| $9.8 | $12.9 | -$3.2 | -24.5% | 4th |
| $45.4 | $46.5 | -$1.2 | -2.6% | Year |
Sands certainly didn't get out unscathed with the 4th quarter casino revenue in Macau dropping by -19.2% or -$426.70 million dollars. However, as predicted it wasn't enough to upset the Year over Year gain for the entire corporation of 5.9% .
Only the original Macao property (The Sands) which is at the pier where the ferry comes over from Hong Kong went negative for the entire year. All of the mortgage bonds that were issued to finance construction were paid off in one year, and no major improvement to this property has been done in the last 7 years.
Quote: pacomartinKeep in mind that Macau makes about 7 times the revenue as Vegas strip on less than half the number of visitors. Given that Vegas is the place where Americans go to be out of control, I don't think you can explain that vast difference by cultural norms. Especially given that the average chinese has so much less disposable income.
Ultimately it has to come down to money laundering.
That's absolutely true. While every American can go to Las Vegas for fun, not every Chinese can go to Macau.
They need apply special permit in order to go, like a visa to a foreign country. It's more difficult than a visa because how many times you can go,
how many days can stay each trip are all very limited.
The vast majority of Chinese (99.999%) never ever being to Macau.
Macau's gambling revenue relies on a few thousand VIPs ( and almost certainly related to crime one way or the other),
I thought it's a dangerous business mode.
btw the headline is probably enough, but you only get a preview with this article without a pin to go further
http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-corruption-crackdown-deals-macau-a-rough-hand-1425364603?KEYWORDS=macau
Quote: EvenBobAsian's are frequently syndicate bettors, they're not betting their own money. A group gets together a lot of money and sends the best player to make the bets, and trusted overseer's to watch and make sure everything is kosher. They do it in the States too, all the time.
Very common. Especially the restaurant workers. But also the adult entertainment crowd. I have 10 plus years experience in the adult entertainment industry and 75% of that was with the Asians. Many more than you think are playing with 'pooled' cash and a designated player.
Quote: pokerfaceMacau's gambling revenue relies on a few thousand VIPs ( and almost certainly related to crime one way or the other),
I thought it's a dangerous business mode.
Macau is now in the 10th straight month of decreasing YoY revenues.
Jun -3.7%
Jul -3.6%
Aug -6.1%
Sept -11.7%
Oct -23.2%
Nov -19.6%
Dec -30.4%
Jan -17.4%
Feb -48.6%
Mar -39.4%
Kazuo Okada, the big money behind Wynn Resorts is out because of improperly bribing Phillipino officials. With Elaine and Steve Wynn now divorced, she wants to liquidate some of her shares to pursue the life of billionare divorcee. With revenues in Macau falling so fast, they may be vulnerable to a takeover by Sheldon Adelson. Although his net worth has taken a huge hit, he may see this is a good time to take over Wynn.
Genting Group was supposed to start construction in May on the abandoned Echelon Palace site it acquired from Boyd Gaming in March 2013. but if Wynn is vulnerable, they may find it less risky to take over Wynn instead.
Quote: pacomartin
Kazuo Okada, the big money behind Wynn Resorts is out because of improperly bribing Phillipino officials..
How do you improperly bribe a Filipino official? Obviously there are bribes involved the new developments there. It's the Philippines. I wasn't aware Wynn had a project in Manila?
Curious also, if you can advise.....what is the status of the "Wynn Palace" and the new Sands property in Macau? Is construction still ongoing?
Quote: MrVI don't understand: why all this influx of money to build massive gambling complexes / hotels if, as claimed "Macau's gambling revenue relies on a few thousand VIPs?"
I don't think they are contradictory statements.
Currently, Macau has a total of 23,423 hotel rooms spread across 97 hotel premises that range from 5-star deluxe to 2-star hotels. There will be about 5,800 additional rooms in the market upon completion of 3 new hotels within these 2 years. In 2014 31,525,632 vistors came to Macau, but 16,959,949 were same day vistiors (i.e. people who took the ferry from Hong Kong and did not spend the night).
At the end of 2014 Vegas had 41,126,512 visitors and 150,544 hotel rooms. Same day visitors are almost non existent in Las Vegas, as it is a long drive from the Los angeles or Phoenix area.
Gaming revenue on Las Vegas strip for 2014 was $6.373 billion. Gaming revenue in Macau was 351,521 MOP million, down from 360,749 in 2013. Those figures at current exchange rate are over US$45 billion.
Bottom line is Las Vegas Strip has roughly 3X as many overnight visitors and 6X as many hotels rooms, but Macau has about 7X the gross gaming revenue. So the huge gaming revenue depends on a small number of VIPs, but there is still a relatively large business in tourism and hotel rooms..
Macau's $1.86 billion in slot revenue is a tiny percentage of the over $45 billion, whereas Las Vegas Strips $2.91 billion in slot revenue is almost half of $6.373 billion.
But you can't just ignore $1.86 billion. In the same way you can't ignore the hotel business in Macau even though it is not a big percentage.
Quote: pacomartinMacau is now in the 10th straight month of decreasing YoY revenues.
Jun -3.7%
Jul -3.6%
Aug -6.1%
Sept -11.7%
Oct -23.2%
Nov -19.6%
Dec -30.4%
Jan -17.4%
Feb -48.6%
Mar -39.4%
Kazuo Okada, the big money behind Wynn Resorts is out because of improperly bribing Phillipino officials. With Elaine and Steve Wynn now divorced, she wants to liquidate some of her shares to pursue the life of billionare divorcee. With revenues in Macau falling so fast, they may be vulnerable to a takeover by Sheldon Adelson. Although his net worth has taken a huge hit, he may see this is a good time to take over Wynn.
Genting Group was supposed to start construction in May on the abandoned Echelon Palace site it acquired from Boyd Gaming in March 2013. but if Wynn is vulnerable, they may find it less risky to take over Wynn instead.
Tomorrow (Wednesday, April 22, 2015) Sands announces first quarter results so we get to find out how bad they took a hit. Steve Wynn is releasing press releases regarding statements about the board regarding his ex wife.
The comment on Charlie Rose's show about his exwife and the dispute with the board begins at 7:00.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-04-16/wynn-resorts-steve-wynn-charlie-rose-04-16-
Sheldon still plans to open the $2.7 billion Parisian resort on Macau's Cotai strip by late 2015.
After a year of delays, Genting announced in early April that construction of the massive $4 billion resort just off the Vegas Strip would begin on May 5. The casino intends to open in 2017.
It has been suggested that Resorts may instead try and wrest away the Trump hotels and finish the vision of building two more buildings on the golf course. The problems with the board of directors makes them vulnerable.
Quote: renoI hadn't realized that the budget to build Wynn Palace was US$4.1 billion. That's a tremendously large gamble. He was gambling that the China's communist rulers wouldn't act like communists. True, they didn't directly confiscate Wynn's assets (it's not quite Cuba under Castro), but their anti-corruption campaign has decimated Macau's gambling/tourism industry. Since China is a non-democratic authoritarian state ruled by 1 single political party, Wynn & Sheldon have no options, no recourse to fix the situation. Wynn is forced to watch helplessly as $4.1 billion is wasted building a new casino with no gamblers.
they won't "directly confiscate his assets", as you have said, but they could make a law that says you need a local "partner" to operate, or announce some policy changes that make business go bad (like the anti-corruption going on now) and when you are half dead offer to buy your shares at half of what is worth.
Quote: andysifthey won't "directly confiscate his assets", as you have said, but they could make a law that says you need a local "partner" to operate, or announce some policy changes that make business go bad (like the anti-corruption going on now) and when you are half dead offer to buy your shares at half of what is worth.
Steve Wynn had talked about government betrayal repeatedly in the past. First in Atlantic City, then repeatedly by President Obama (even though he is a registered Democrat). He has said that he trusts the government in China.
Sociedade de Jogos de Macau (SJM) couldn't build up the city over the course of a single decade. Genting, Sands, Wynn are all heavily taxed and I don't think the government is going to risk a direct attack. The crackdown on anti-corruption is part of a larger effort and not designed specifically to wreck the foreign owned casinos.
Three days until Wynn releases quarterly report. It is very possible he could lose control of part of his empire with these upheavals.
Net revenues for the first quarter of 2015 were $1,092.2 million, compared to $1,513.6 million in the first quarter of 2014. The decline was the result of a 37.7% net revenue decrease from our Macau Operations, partially offset by a 1.6% increase in net revenues from our Las Vegas Operations
Wynn Palace Project in Macau is a 1,700-room resort to open in 2016. In July 2013, a $2.6 billion guaranteed maximum price (GMP) contract for the project’s construction costs. The total project budget, including construction costs, capitalized interest, pre-opening expenses, land costs and financing fees, is approximately $4.1 billion. During the first quarter of 2015, they invested approximately $374.3 million in the Cotai project, taking the total investment to date to $2.2 billion.
Quote: pacomartinSteve Wynn's quarterly report was devastating as predicted. The VIP revenue was down by 52.4%. He called on the Chinese government to state some policy control.
Net revenues for the first quarter of 2015 were $1,092.2 million, compared to $1,513.6 million in the first quarter of 2014. The decline was the result of a 37.7% net revenue decrease from our Macau Operations, partially offset by a 1.6% increase in net revenues from our Las Vegas Operations
Wynn Palace Project in Macau is a 1,700-room resort to open in 2016. In July 2013, a $2.6 billion guaranteed maximum price (GMP) contract for the project’s construction costs. The total project budget, including construction costs, capitalized interest, pre-opening expenses, land costs and financing fees, is approximately $4.1 billion. During the first quarter of 2015, they invested approximately $374.3 million in the Cotai project, taking the total investment to date to $2.2 billion.
How is making (net) over one billion dollars "devastating"? Sure beats losing money.
There remains confusion about Wynn's presence in Macau. Do they have one existing property, and one under construction, or two existing properties and a third under construction?
Quote: NokTangHow is making (net) over one billion dollars "devastating"? Sure beats losing money.
Revenue was a billion dollars (down from $1.5 billion same quarter last year).
There was a net loss in 2015 compared to positive income in 2014.
Net revenues $1,092,238 $1,513,613
Net income (loss) attributable to Wynn Resorts, Limited $(44,601) $226,896
With a $4 billion resort opening the company is now ripe for a hostile takeover.
Quote: NokTangThere remains confusion about Wynn's presence in Macau. Do they have one existing property, and one under construction, or two existing properties and a third under construction?
The existing Las Vegas operations (Wynn Las Vegas and Encore) feature two luxury hotel towers with a total of 4,748 spacious hotel rooms, suites and villas, approximately 186,000 square feet of casino space, 34 food and beverage outlets featuring signature chefs, an on-site 18-hole golf course, meeting space, a Ferrari and Maserati dealership, approximately 96,000 square feet of retail space, two showrooms, three nightclubs and a beach club.
The existing Macau resort is a resort destination casino with two luxury hotel towers (Wynn Macau and Encore) with a total of 1,008 spacious rooms and suites, approximately 280,000 square feet of casino space, casual and fine dining in eight restaurants, approximately 57,000 square feet of retail space, and recreation and leisure facilities, including two health clubs and spas and a pool.
Wynn Palace Project in Macau: The Company is currently constructing Wynn Palace, a fully integrated resort containing a 1,700-room hotel, performance lake, meeting space, casino, spa, retail offerings, and food and beverage outlets in the Cotai area of Macau. In July 2013, we signed a $2.6 billion guaranteed maximum price (GMP) contract for the project’s construction costs. The total project budget, including construction costs, capitalized interest, pre-opening expenses, land costs and financing fees, is approximately $4.1 billion. We expect to open our resort on Cotai in the first half of 2016.
So it depends on how you want to spin it. The two towers are treated as two hotels in Vegas. The two towers have similar names in Macau, but are far fewer rooms and could be treated as a single property. The under construction Palace is physically in a different place on Cotai.
Your take on Wynn gives a good picture.
What I don't understand is why others don't see this cat 5 hurricane coming in Macau.
In fact there are some calling for a bottom and turn around.
The revenue is already dropping by about 40% presently.
The hotel rooms will be doubled with the next 2 years. 6 $3+B projects under construction.
There is a cap of 150 new gaming tables per year for the whole of Macau.
Implementation of anti corruption and money laundering offices.
Visa quota and restriction.
Full implementation of smoking ban.
What I am seeing is Vegas in the last recession with casinos going bankrupt, construction stop and left rotting away.
Quote: Deck007What I am seeing is Vegas in the last recession with casinos going bankrupt, construction stop and left rotting away.
I don't think that Macau's prospects are that bleak. With more and more Chinese capable of vacations, the general room and amusement side of Macau is doing very well. The insane levels of VIP baccarat what is taking the huge hits.
Las Vegas has seen visitors and non-gaming revenue increase, but the strip is still not profitable 7 years after 2007 (latest report) because of the $2.5 billion in interest that is being paid annually.
Theoretically Las Vegas could pick up some of the VIP gambling from China. The cost of flying people across the ocean is minimal for such big players, and Nevada's lower tax rate is a big factor in dealing with whales.
However, the machinations in Macau to get money out of the mainland may not have been legal, but they were commonplace. You could fine almost anyplace that would sell you a high end ROLEX for $100K and then buy it back for $95K. It may be more difficult to get the cash out of the USA.
| Billions $ | Strip | Clark County | Rest of Nevada |
| Gaming | $5.994 | $3.234 | $1.413 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Rooms | $4.251 | $0.546 | $0.349 |
| Food. | $2.515 | $0.680 | $0.376 |
| Beverage | $1.202 | $0.296 | $0.177 |
| Other | $2.347 | $0.333 | $0.183 |
| Revenue | $16.308 | $5.089 | $2.499 |
| Cost of Sales | $1.088 | $0.458 | $0.292 |
| Gross Margin | $15.220 | $4.632 | $2.207 |
| Dep Expenses | $8.440 | $2.620 | $1.219 |
| Dep. Income | $6.780 | $2.011 | $0.988 |
| G&A Expenses | $7.724 | $1.814 | $0.985 |
| Income/Loss | -$0.944 | $0.197 | $0.003 |
| -5.79% | 3.87% | 0.13% | |
| Interest Expense | $2.517 | $0.168 | $0.165 |
Interest Expense is part of G&A expenses. In the case of the strip it is almost 1/3 of G&A. In other parts of Nevada it is much less. The strip has a net loss because of high interest payments.
Quote: pacomartinRevenue was a billion dollars (down from $1.5 billion same quarter last year).
There was a net loss in 2015 compared to positive income in 2014.
Net revenues $1,092,238 $1,513,613.
I guess I'm from the old school, where we said "gross revenues" then "net revenue" was the money actually made. You infer they now use "net revenue" for the gross figure before expenses diba?
Quote: NokTangI guess I'm from the old school, ...
I think "old school" is to use income or loss for the actual money made.
I'm following the definitions they use in the press release, which states: Net revenues for the first quarter of 2015 were $1,092.2 million, compared to $1,513.6 million in the first quarter of 2014.
But this is the formula they use: Net revenues= Gross revenues less promotional allowances
$1,092.2 = $705.4 (Macau) + $386.9 (Vegas) in 2015
$1,513.6 =$1,132.7 (Macau) + $380.9 (Vegas) in 2014
The final number uses this formula
Net income (loss) attributable to Wynn Resorts, Limited= Net income (loss) less net income attributable to noncontrolling interest
Last year there was positive net income ($226,896,000), and now there is a net loss (-$44,601,000).
This is the number divided by roughly 100 million shares.
WYNN MACAU is not down and out. The rooms are still renting for over $300 per night, and they are selling tons of high end food. The so called "mass market" is actually blowing away Wynn Las Vegas, which is a 5 Star resort. It's just that VIP baccarat dropped from $36 billion gambled to a little under $18 billion gambled this quarter. Rooms in Macau are at 97.5% occupancy at $323/night average (down $8 and 0.6%) . Rooms in Vegas are at 83% occupancy and average $283/night.
Vegas makes $537,660/day on slot machines while Macau makes $530,882. Even in this VIP ravaged environment, a table in Macau makes 285% of what a table in Vegas earns, and there are 60% more tables.
Quote: pacomartinI think "old school" is to use income or loss for the actual money made.
I'm following the definitions they use in the press release, which states: Net revenues for the first quarter of 2015 were $1,092.2 million, compared to $1,513.6 million in the first quarter of 2014.
But this is the formula they use: Net revenues= Gross revenues less promotional allowances
$1,092.2 = $705.4 (Macau) + $386.9 (Vegas) in 2015
$1,513.6 =$1,132.7 (Macau) + $380.9 (Vegas) in 2014
The final number uses this formula
Net income (loss) attributable to Wynn Resorts, Limited= Net income (loss) less net income attributable to noncontrolling interest
Last year there was positive net income ($226,896,000), and now there is a net loss (-$44,601,000).
This is the number divided by roughly 100 million shares.
WYNN MACAU is not down and out. The rooms are still renting for over $300 per night, and they are selling tons of high end food. The so called "mass market" is actually blowing away Wynn Las Vegas, which is a 5 Star resort. It's just that VIP baccarat dropped from $36 billion gambled to a little under $18 billion gambled this quarter. Rooms in Macau are at 97.5% occupancy at $323/night average (down $8 and 0.6%) . Rooms in Vegas are at 83% occupancy and average $283/night.
Vegas makes $537,660/day on slot machines while Macau makes $530,882. Even in this VIP ravaged environment, a table in Macau makes 285% of what a table in Vegas earns, and there are 60% more tables.
Nice analysis and clean and easy to understand!
Macau Casino Shares Rise on Sign Industry Approaching Bottom
It's an interesting headline because there are no hard facts to backup the hopeful tone. The crackdown on graft does not appear to be ending.
Wynn is expanding into Massachusetts, which will give him someplace else to turn besides China.
Adelson has not chosen any new place to expand. Sands made more money in gross casino revenue from Bethlehem PA last quarter ($118.8 million) vs Las Vegas ($111.8 million), but that is still paltry dollars compared to Singapore ($631.9 million). He may regret not expanding into Japan, vietnam, or Spain to give him some kind of counterbalance to China.
Quote: pacomartinMacau’s Chief Executive Fernando Chui pledged a five-year plan to make it less dependent on casinos by diversifying the economy and transform itself into a global tourism center.
Macau Casino Shares Rise on Sign Industry Approaching Bottom
It's an interesting headline because there are no hard facts to backup the hopeful tone. The crackdown on graft does not appear to be ending.
Wynn is expanding into Massachusetts, which will give him someplace else to turn besides China.
Adelson has not chosen any new place to expand. Sands made more money in gross casino revenue from Bethlehem PA last quarter ($118.8 million) vs Las Vegas ($111.8 million), but that is still paltry dollars compared to Singapore ($631.9 million). He may regret not expanding into Japan, vietnam, or Spain to give him some kind of counterbalance to China.
Just got back from Macau. Stayed in the Venetian with 34% discount which is unheard off until a few months ago.
Now what is this you are saying about Wynn.
In Massachusetts they are experiencing permit problems which according to Wynn himself would take many months to process and cost would mount.
Visited Wynn Macau during week-day evening and the casino is about half full. But this maybe due to their decision not to lower their minimum table bet size.
They have however started to discount their hotel rates.
Wynn recent bad-mouthing of the Macau government I am sure would not go down well with them.
Wynn Palace under construction just have some skin/curtain wall on it and with my construction background there is no way they can complete it and start operation by first quarter 2016 in spite of the assurance from Wynn himself. This would mean cost over-run and more cash outlay.
Wynn lost money last quarter and will continue to bleed more heavily as operating conditions worsen.
Quote: Deck007
Just got back from Macau. Stayed in the Venetian with 34% discount which is unheard off until a few months ago..
Where did you find a discounted room rate for the Venetian? Marina Bay Sands in Singapore has never to my knowledge offered a discounted room rate and this is the first I've read/heard/rumored of the properties in Macau(you also mention Wynn) discounting room rates. I've also been told that room service sucks at the Macau Venetian. Any experiences with this? A friend ordered breakfast and it took 90 minutes. While 90 minutes may seem okay to some, it wasn't okay in his opinion.The food wasn't hot and the coffee was luke warm at best. Management or lack thereof?
I'm also interested in the spa scene. If you partook in that, please advise if the prices have dropped in that sector as well. Not the racetrack at Lisboa but the self contained places. Coded references to the use of "out call" services based on business cards with photos also appreciated. Specifically, did the visitor look anything like the photo on the card?
Thanks and regards.
Quote: pacomartinvietnam, .
I've read that there are "problems" with Vietnam. Not to get off topic, but I don't think MGM ever got started, all just artists renditions?
Quote: NokTangWhere did you find a discounted room rate for the Venetian? Marina Bay Sands in Singapore has never to my knowledge offered a discounted room rate and this is the first I've read/heard/rumored of the properties in Macau(you also mention Wynn) discounting room rates. I've also been told that room service sucks at the Macau Venetian. Any experiences with this? A friend ordered breakfast and it took 90 minutes. While 90 minutes may seem okay to some, it wasn't okay in his opinion.The food wasn't hot and the coffee was luke warm at best. Management or lack thereof?
I'm also interested in the spa scene. If you partook in that, please advise if the prices have dropped in that sector as well. Not the racetrack at Lisboa but the self contained places. Coded references to the use of "out call" services based on business cards with photos also appreciated. Specifically, did the visitor look anything like the photo on the card?
Thanks and regards.
Just go to Agoda travel agency website. There are tons of discounted hotel rooms there now. Room service I have not tried.
The sort of spa and out call service you are looking for I don't know much about. I don't think Macau is the sort of place for these things now.
Quote: NokTangWhere did you find a discounted room rate for the Venetian? Marina Bay Sands in Singapore has never to my knowledge offered a discounted room rate and this is the first I've read/heard/rumored of the properties in Macau(you also mention Wynn) discounting room rates. I've also been told that room service sucks at the Macau Venetian. Any experiences with this? A friend ordered breakfast and it took 90 minutes. While 90 minutes may seem okay to some, it wasn't okay in his opinion.The food wasn't hot and the coffee was luke warm at best. Management or lack thereof?
I'm also interested in the spa scene. If you partook in that, please advise if the prices have dropped in that sector as well. Not the racetrack at Lisboa but the self contained places. Coded references to the use of "out call" services based on business cards with photos also appreciated. Specifically, did the visitor look anything like the photo on the card?
Thanks and regards.
For your information, racetrack at Lisboa is closed for business. Till when, I don't know.
Quote: Deck007Just go to Agoda travel agency website. There are tons of discounted hotel rooms there now. Room service I have not tried.
The sort of spa and out call service you are looking for I don't know much about. I don't think Macau is the sort of place for these things now.
Just looked. Still showing $285.usd up for next weekend. I've never seen the Venetian either in Macau or as I say, Marina Bay Sands for less than this price. I'm not interested in staying in two "star" places in either location as my visit will only be two or three nights. I was told by a Marina Bay Sands casino manager that $100.usd action is not going to get you even a casino rate. "The marketing is much different here".
As for the other services, I also looked at the well known web site and it appears to be a thriving business as usual. I asked about the business cards because a friend called one and the escort arrived and was an exact match of her photo on said card. Several others also have had great experiences at the local spas, all day affairs including meals and head to toe service at same. It's an Asian thing I guess. (haircut and shave to pedicure and everything in between including meals prepared to order)
The racetrack being shut down is astonishing news but not such a surprise I guess with the new crack downs in place.
Galaxy hotels have 25% discount.
Best Western has 40% discount.
Best deal would be from Agoda secret deals. Presently only available if you tick off 3 star hotels.
But check periodically as I have seen 5 star for SGD 175.
Quote: NokTangJust looked. Still showing $285.usd up for next weekend. I've never seen the Venetian either in Macau or as I say, Marina Bay Sands for less than this price. I'm not interested in staying in two "star" places in either location as my visit will only be two or three nights. I was told by a Marina Bay Sands casino manager that $100.usd action is not going to get you even a casino rate. "The marketing is much different here".
As for the other services, I also looked at the well known web site and it appears to be a thriving business as usual. I asked about the business cards because a friend called one and the escort arrived and was an exact match of her photo on said card. Several others also have had great experiences at the local spas, all day affairs including meals and head to toe service at same. It's an Asian thing I guess. (haircut and shave to pedicure and everything in between including meals prepared to order)
The racetrack being shut down is astonishing news but not such a surprise I guess with the new crack downs in place.
the racetrack was closed after the nephew of Stanley Ho was arrested for managing a prostitution operation
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1678954/stanley-hos-nephew-five-staff-and-96-women-held-over-macau-hotel&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=wQNgVajJDpLN8gWtkoGwCQ&ved=0CB0QFjAE&sig2=HVGB3dD69FeNktLy2QRMbw&usg=AFQjCNG7mHDT9-jteBkZeAK2P88wZjcIDA
Not that i am particularly interested in the race track, but i think there is deeper political meaning in this arrest. Ho's days are doomed maybe?
April Macau gaming revenue over the last 6 years (patacas and billions of US dollars)
2015 19,167 $2.422
2014 31,318 $3.957
2013 28,305 $3.576
2012 25,003 $3.159
2011 20,507 $2.591
2010 14,186 $1.792
So that is a drop of over $1.5 billion for a single month. In years, that is taken it back to revenue from over 4 years ago.
Macau is only about a quarter of the population of Clark County.
Over the last 12 months Macau is down $10 billion over the previous 12 months.
It is very difficult to imagine those kind of swings in revenue.
The worst is yet to come.
Quote: Deck007Understand that the world in Macau is turning upside down. The worst is yet to come.
McDonalds had a bad quarter as well. Net revenue dropped $700 million while Sands Corporation dropped by $1 billion. As McDonald's is a larger revenue the percentage drop was about half of Sands. Sands has 50,000 employees whille McDonalds has roughly 450,000 employees.
So what affects the average person more. McDonalds having revenue drop by $700 million, or the casino take in Macau dropping by a billion dollars?
1Q2015 - 1Q2014
$5,958.9 $6,700.3 McDonalds (-11%)
$3,011.6 $4,010.4 Sands Corporation (-25%)
The really big hit was in VIP baccarat. I wonder how each of the 6 individual casino corporations was affected?
20 Sociedade de Jogos de Macau
6 Galaxy Casino, S.A.
4 Venetian Macau, S.A.
1 Wynn Resorts (Macau) S.A
3 Melco Crown (Macau) S.A.
1 MGM Grand Paradise, S.A.
35 TOTAL
It looks like Sands gaming revenue dropped by -38.8% while the market in MACAU dropped by -36.6%. So there is no obvious difference between Sands loss and the market loss in general. But maybe SJM was spared the worst of the drop.
Quote: pacomartinFor the year ending October 31 2007 strip gaming revenue was $6.945 billion. For the year ending March 31, 2015 strip revenue was $6.371 billion, still down by $0.6 billion for a full year.
April Macau gaming revenue over the last 6 years (patacas and billions of US dollars)
2015 19,167 $2.422
2014 31,318 $3.957
2013 28,305 $3.576
2012 25,003 $3.159
2011 20,507 $2.591
2010 14,186 $1.792
So that is a drop of over $1.5 billion for a single month. In years, that is taken it back to revenue from over 4 years ago.
Macau is only about a quarter of the population of Clark County.
Over the last 12 months Macau is down $10 billion over the previous 12 months.
It is very difficult to imagine those kind of swings in revenue.
Haven't been following this thread but is the reason for this massive drop an unreported slowdown in China's economy or something else?
Quote: bobsimsHaven't been following this thread but is the reason for this massive drop an unreported slowdown in China's economy or something else?
Xi Jinping became president in March 2013 and started an anti corruption investigation that has resulted in punishment of some 100,000 executives.
In Macao in 2013 66% of revenue is so called VIP baccarat ($30.135 billion), 25% is mass market baccarat ($11.573 billion), and about 8% is everything else ($3.869 billion) from slots to craps to stud poker.
The anti-corruption crackdown has naturally hit VIP baccarat the hardest.
"Supply will create the demand," Sheldon Adelson, Las Vegas Sands' CEO, said at a conference in New York City on Wednesday. Yahoo finance calls Adelson's comments delusional.
Since last summer, Xi has been clear about the government's plans for Macau: It is to be transformed into something that looks more like Las Vegas, focused more on dining and shows than on high-rollers and baccarat.
The VIP rooms are disappearing, officials are cracking down on prostitution and organized crime, and there's a smoking ban in the works for casino floors.
It is true that VIP baccarat is going out in favor of so called "mass market" baccarat.
In 2010 $17.1 billion VIP against $4.4 billion mass market baccarat
In 2013 $30.1 billion VIP against $11.6 billion mass market baccarat <--- peak
Since 2013 VIP baccarat has been plunging and may be only $15-$17 billion for 2015. But it is also possible that mass market baccarat will surpass VIP baccarat.
But these numbers are still huge compared to the $6.37 billion on Vegas strip for all gambling for the last 12 months ($1.48 billion in baccarat).
Quote: pacomartin"Supply will create the demand," Sheldon Adelson, Las Vegas Sands' CEO, said at a conference in New York City on Wednesday. Yahoo finance calls Adelson's comments delusional.
Is the old man lying? Or just crazy? (Lots of 81 year olds have dementia!)
Quote: pacomartin...there's a smoking ban in the works for casino floors.
I'm curious about the government's motive for the smoking ban. Is it out of consideration for the casino employees' health? Is it to encourage problem gamblers to slow down, take a smoke break, and not gamble so compulsively? Is it to clean up Macau's seedy sordid image, to make the town appear a bit less sinful? Is the central government deliberately trying to sabotage the casino industry?
I assume that all of China is full of too much public smoking, so why the double standard on Macau?
Quote: renoIs the old man lying? Or just crazy? (Lots of 81 year olds have dementia!)
I'm curious about the government's motive for the smoking ban. Is it out of consideration for the casino employees' health? Is it to encourage problem gamblers to slow down, take a smoke break, and not gamble so compulsively? Is it to clean up Macau's seedy sordid image, to make the town appear a bit less sinful? Is the central government deliberately trying to sabotage the casino industry?
I assume that all of China is full of too much public smoking, so why the double standard on Macau?
I would put him down as being senile.
Just back from Macau. This smoking thing has a big impact with the chinese gamblers. When I look in the smoking lounge and see them smoking away so furiously I dont know if it is because they are serious smoking addicts or serious gambling addicts wanting to get back to the gambling tables. Whatever a full casino smoking ban would drive out alot of gamblers.
Quote: renoIs the old man lying? Or just crazy? (Lots of 81 year olds have dementia!)
When the corporation gaming revenue in Macao drops to $1.5 billion in 1Q2015 down almost a billion from $2.47 billion in 1Q2014 that seems shocking. But the balance sheet shows a still healthy corporation renting out rooms at top dollar at very high occupancy rates. It's not a corporation that is on it's knees at all.
So even with a new $2.5 billion resort do to open next year, the company is still healthy. It just isn't making the obscene profits it was earning last year.
I think he might be saying that there is plenty of demand for an expensive weekend away from Beijing or Shanghai. And a billion and a half in gaming revenue is still a lot of money in comparison $112 million in Las Vegas (gaming revenue).
Either that or he is so friggin rich that he can say anything he wants.
Quote: Deck007When I look in the smoking lounge and see them smoking away so furiously I dont know if it is because they are serious smoking addicts or serious gambling addicts wanting to get back to the gambling tables. Whatever a full casino smoking ban would drive out alot of gamblers.
They, the Chinese, do that in airport smoking lounges as well.....
Macau remains a separate country I believe, so any no-smoking laws would have to come from them, not the Chinese. The Chinese should ban smoking entirely in their own country. Lastly, American tobacco companies enriching themselves in China need a good whipping with sting ray tails as well.
