Wynn Changes Craps from 3/4/5 to 2x on 7/11/15
Quote: hail2skinsApparently there is now a pit at the Venetian that is $5 minimum during certain hours. The blackjack tables in the pit are 6/5 and the craps table has double odds.
What, no ante on that blackjack? How nice of them.
Quote: PokeraddictSome of you are saying things like "Back when Casino Royale had 100x". Did it change again in the last few weeks? About three weeks ago I did a survey and Casino Royale added a table and once again had 100x odds.
This is news to me. I admit I haven't been by CR in several months but they did get rid of their 100x game. If it is back, then that is new.
So, I called.
YES. About a month ago they restored their 100x at a $5 minimum bet table.
Quote: AlanMendelsonThis is news to me. I admit I haven't been by CR in several months but they did get rid of their 100x game. If it is back, then that is new.
So, I called.
YES. About a month ago they restored their 100x at a $5 minimum bet table.
I have reported on this multiple times on this forum.
I have also pointed out (multiple times) in both private e-mail and on this forum the MANY errors in the craps survey.
https://wizardofvegas.com/guides/craps-survey/
Assuming it has not been fixed yet, the 100x odds at casino royale is not the most egregious mistake on this link.
There are no FEWER than 12 mistakes on this link at the time of this posting, and most of them are places listed as double odds that are, in fact, 345x odds.
I pointed out, IN THIS THREAD, both this fact, as WELL AS THE POSSIBILITY that the change to double odds at the Wynn (however slight) may have stemmed from the error in the Wizard's craps survey.
It is not an unreasonable conclusion that the Wizard doesn't care. I think that he would care, but it has not gotten his attention yet JUST HOW WRONG this information is and has been for quite some time now.
Quote: Ahigh
It is not an unreasonable conclusion that the Wizard doesn't care. I think that he would care, but it has not gotten his attention yet JUST HOW WRONG this information is and has been for quite some time now.
You may not be aware the "Wizard" sold this site to someone, I assume(and hope) for cash in the seven figure range. This is why we now have online gaming adverts and of course the change in the layout.
Back on point however, the Wizard had always said he didn't like craps so naturally there would be a lack of effort to update the odds situation. While it doesn't change that often, some players do like to keep up. The "bar 2" in Northern Nevada is also never discussed in these craps threads. I think it's an important variance and changes peoples luck on the don't. A lot more snake eyes appear on the come out than boxcars. This again due to the possible weights implanted on the six pips and possibility of magnets under the felt activated manually to disrupt "hot" rolls.
Quote: AlanMendelsonThis is news to me. I admit I haven't been by CR in several months but they did get rid of their 100x game. If it is back, then that is new.
So, I called.
YES. About a month ago they restored their 100x at a $5 minimum bet table.
Thanks for making the call Alan. I'm sure it took a guy with influence to get said information over the phone as it might be deemed taking a wager etc. causing the casino to face fines and license issues.
The Wynn giving "better" odds to players who bet higher minimums is a new concept for Las Vegas. One had always assumed he/she was playing the same game as the high rollers. Not any longer with this decision by Mr. Wynn. I'm not sure it's a good idea in the long run but he has proven long ago he's smarter than I.
I submitted changes at Plaza (3-4-5x to 10x), Casino Royale (20x to 100x), Wynn (3-4-5x to 2x) and the closing of Riviera and Las Vegas Club. I also noted the list of 2x odds at the bottom was incorrect.
Are there any others? If so, let me know and I will get that fixed.
This is no doubt conclusively based on your personal experience from a) yesterday b) last week c) last month d) as far back as I can remember.Quote: NokTangThe "bar 2" in Northern Nevada is also never discussed in these craps threads. I think it's an important variance and changes peoples luck on the don't. A lot more snake eyes appear on the come out than boxcars.
http://forum.goodshooter.com/topic6.htmlQuote: AlanMendelsonThank heaven Ahigh has a website so he can post the correct info. Is there a URL for this page?
Who's in charge of updating the craps survey on the site now? Certainly not the Wizard. One of the Greenies?
Quote: NokTangYou may not be aware the "Wizard" sold this site to someone, I assume(and hope) for cash in the seven figure range. This is why we now have online gaming adverts and of course the change in the layout.
Back on point however, the Wizard had always said he didn't like craps so naturally there would be a lack of effort to update the odds situation. While it doesn't change that often, some players do like to keep up. The "bar 2" in Northern Nevada is also never discussed in these craps threads. I think it's an important variance and changes peoples luck on the don't. A lot more snake eyes appear on the come out than boxcars. This again due to the possible weights implanted on the six pips and possibility of magnets under the felt activated manually to disrupt "hot" rolls.
The only thing I found annoying on the don't in Northern Nevada is that they take your line bet and move it to the point. I hated that, but only because of my own accounting and betting method. The rest of your post is absurd.
Quote: teddyshttp://forum.goodshooter.com/topic6.html
Who's in charge of updating the craps survey on the site now? Certainly not the Wizard. One of the Greenies?
I'm not and never have been, that's all I know.
I've called dozens of casinos all over Nevada and pit managers have always been open.
And I've never even given my name or that I'm in the media so I have zero "influence" when I make the calls.
In response to Nok Tang -- I am sure anyone could have called and simply asked for the appropriate pit. At Casino Royale it was either the Main Pit or their Small Pit. Just keep pressing 2 on their phone directory.
Quote: PokeraddictThe only thing I found annoying on the don't in Northern Nevada is that they take your line bet and move it to the point. I hated that, but only because of my own accounting and betting method. The rest of your post is absurd.
1. That never happened to me in either Reno or Lake Tahoe. What do you mean they take your line bet and move it, much like a come bet?
2. As I posted elsewhere, we meaning several of us with a lot of table experience, noticed said magnet action on a cruise to nowhere out of Florida, Fernandina Beach to be exact and specific, many years ago call it 15 years. It isn't an "absurd" concept. This action of the dice flipping and plopping was repeated on a cruise out of St. Pete Florida. Not every roll, just a few times a night when there were people pressing up on the line bet. BTW, it was single odds on both boats.
Thanks for your chip of the day posts but this topic is much more about craps play in casinos.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThis is no doubt conclusively based on your personal experience from a) yesterday b) last week c) last month d) as far back as I can remember.
It's based on personal experiences as you figured out, and goes back to when I first started visiting northern Nevada. It isn't based on current experiences. You play however you want to, your money, etc.. Just a warning what can and has happened in the past up in northern Nevada and of course, the Lake Tahoe area, I'm not sure where "bar 2" is standard? on the don't other than there.
Quote: NokTangThe "bar 2" in Northern Nevada is also never discussed in these craps threads. I think it's an important variance and changes peoples luck on the don't. A lot more snake eyes appear on the come out than boxcars. This again due to the possible weights implanted on the six pips and possibility of magnets under the felt activated manually to disrupt "hot" rolls.
I don't think this can of worms belongs in this thread. But I could be wrong?
the dont pass bar2 dont come line is between the Field and the Come boxQuote: NokTang1. That never happened to me in either Reno or Lake Tahoe. What do you mean they take your line bet and move it, much like a come bet?
it really stands out as the 1st time I saw it I asked questions about it
this pic is from Bonanza Casino in Reno (above the University) home to the 25cent game (yellow chips)
notice by the shooters hand there is no dont come box
all dont bets are moved by the dealer behind the numbers and i was told is was so no one could make a dont pass bet after the point was established
i like it
as it is also the layout in SoCal Rincon Casino (better view)
here is a pic i think from AlanM
I want that 6th Fire win!
stand off (notice the cards)
that is why most all craps players there (at Rincon) sit down while playing
it is funny to see
Rincon is also 345X odds
Sally
I agree as I have played thereQuote: NokTangThe "bar 2" in Northern Nevada is also never discussed in these craps threads.
I think it's an important variance and changes peoples luck on the don't.
and feels different 2
magnets?Quote: NokTangA lot more snake eyes appear on the come out than boxcars.
This again due to the possible weights implanted on the six pips and possibility of magnets under the felt activated manually to disrupt "hot" rolls.
hehe
Craps dealers from there (my uncle is one)
do say more 2s show than 12s
the reason most given i have heard
is the hot stamping process for the serial number on the 6 face makes it heavier
some can spin the die in their fingers 2, not I
I hurt others trying that trick
i have not tested that opinion as I stick with the high edged Lay bets
Quote: mustangsallyI agree as I have played there
and feels different 2
magnets?
hehe
Craps dealers from there (my uncle is one)
do say more 2s show than 12s
the reason most given i have heard
is the hot stamping process for the serial number on the 6 face makes it heavier
some can spin the die in their fingers 2, not I
I hurt others trying that trick
i have not tested that opinion as I stick with the high edged Lay bets
If the "six" is heaviest, then it seems the "one" would be lightest. That would seem to me to make the 6/1 combination less likely and combinations involving the "one" more likely...both of which would seem to favor less "sevens" overall...
Quote: SanchoPanzaThis is no doubt conclusively based on your personal experience from a) yesterday b) last week c) last month d) as far back as I can remember.
More snake eyes than boxcars is a well known fact. No additional data is required as it would only confuse an otherwise straightforward conversation.
the serial number is on the 6 face and lots of 1 faces have a casino name or logo or something on itQuote: RonCIf the "six" is heaviest, then it seems the "one" would be lightest. That would seem to me to make the 6/1 combination less likely and combinations involving the "one" more likely...both of which would seem to favor less "sevens" overall...
(i have seen face 2 with stuff on it also)
so that to me
makes the 6 and 1 face heavier than the other 4 faces
and i do not know if face 6 and face 1 are about equal. i guess the attempt is to have them equal or as close as possible as no perfect die made by man or machine, imo, could ever be perfect
are Wynn Casino dice way out of balance before play or not
and after they have been removed from the table after play?
is there data for this stuff?
it must be true that Steve Wynn does not understand the expected value of a 0% house edge bet, the odds bets that is...
if he thinks the casino wins more by lowering the odds
his ex-wife is still the winner!
not my opinion
Outside of easily flawed anecdotes, where is it a certifiable "well-known fact"?Quote: Sabretom2More snake eyes than boxcars is a well known fact.
It would seem far more likely that Wynn and his managers feel that they would lose less to bettors who run hot and who have the wits to quit when they're ahead.Quote: mustangsallyit must be true that Steve Wynn does not understand the expected value of a 0% house edge bet, the odds bets that is...
if he thinks the casino wins more by lowering the odds
Quote: SanchoPanzaOutside of easily flawed anecdotes, where is it a certifiable "well-known fact"?
My comment was obvious sarcasm. Sorry you missed it.
Quote: NokTang
The Wynn giving "better" odds to players who bet higher minimums is a new concept for Las VegasI.
I'm not sure it is new. Many blackjack games have better rules as table minimums go up.
I don't believe any place in Nevada is allowed to give different table rules to some players and not others if they are at the same table.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt would seem far more likely that Wynn and his managers feel that they would lose less to bettors who run hot and who have the wits to quit when they're ahead.
All Steve is doing is running off the players afraid to bet black chips.
Those still betting black chips are getting upgraded to a playing location with free food, extra special treatment, and the expectation that stragglers asking such inane questions as "is the seven good or bad?" will at least have to brave walking into a room that clearly says "high limit" when they know that they are not going to be betting any high limit action.
The questions, "can I help you" are typically all that is required to gently scoot folks who might interfere with genuine action from happening along their merry little way.
Craps in the high limit room might be a better title for this meat of this discussion.
Quote: AhighDouble odds tables (from knowledge in my head)
* Jerry's Nugget
* California Club
* Fremont Casino
* South Point
* Circus Circus
Double odds per internet errors here: (Last update: Jan 8, 2015 reported per this snapshot)
https://wizardofvegas.com/guides/craps-survey
That wrong info might have even factored into a decision at the Wynn. Who knows?
My take on Wynn is that their move to 6:5 blackjack & 2x craps odds is a direct consequence of the plummeting revenue in Macau. Wynn's Chinese cash machine is broken. He was a fool to trust those Commies.
As for Vegas, it would have been nice if Steve had taken the high road by keeping 3:2 BJ & 3x4x5x craps... it'd be a symbolic gesture to show that he really does have the classiest hotel in the state of Nevada. But rather than keeping things classy, he revealed who he really is: just another penny-pinching old casino scrooge demanding a $30 resort fee.
Quote: DRichI'm not sure it is new. Many blackjack games have better rules as table minimums go up.
.
Not meant to argue, but, can you please post some rules you have seen which are "better" for the player at higher minimum tables. Thank you.
Quote: reno
My take on Wynn is that their move to 6:5 blackjack & 2x craps odds is a direct consequence of the plummeting revenue in Macau. Wynn's Chinese cash machine is broken. He was a fool to trust those Commies.
.
I think his new hotel there, the "Wynn Palace", is still on schedule and due to open soon despite the currency and political situation.
If he ever goes to "ten percent commission" on the banker in baccarat, then we know times have changed.
This "resort fee" nonsense works I guess because it cuts commissions to travel agents down by obviously lowering the room charge. It should be included in same. Big players of course don't even know about it as they are fully comped and don't book via travel agents.
ps: I doubt most Chinese tourists would accept "resort fees". I doubt they are trying that crap on in Macau. Chinese like to prepay for everything, not be nickle and dimed on site. They don't tip either but that a discussion for another place and time.
Quote: mustangsallythe dont pass bar2 dont come line is between the Field and the Come box
Sally
Thanks for the photos. I don't see how players could reach the two spots from their positions on the table. I guess give the chips to the dealer or toss them in?
To the others making sarcastic remarks about the "bar 2" vs "bar 12" and likelyhood of same appearing face up well let's just say you haven't made the rounds. It is without any doubt that crooked tables with magnets would focus on the "six down" pips. It only as I said a couple times, it only would take a few house winners using this method of cheating the player to make a session profitable for said "casino". I'm surprised this group has never heard of magnets under the felt and loaded dice. We aren't in Kansas.
Quote: mustangsally
his ex-wife is still the winner!
not my opinion
I guess I could go look, but being lazy, can you please tell us if Mr. Wynn kept the restaurant open, the one opened in her name with her doing the hiring and menu? That would tell us a lot about the break up. I'm sure he already blames her for the stock price decline?
Quote: AlanMendelsonI don't think this can of worms belongs in this thread. But I could be wrong?
Hi Alan. Have you ever been to Northern Nevada, Reno and Lake Tahoe specifically?
Reno is for sure a "hick" town, reminds one of what happens when gold diggers run out of gold. Anyhow, some of the casinos there remind me of old saloons with worn out cards. Cheating would not be unheard of. How this is related to the Wynn move on odds is obvious. It's a way to cheat the player or shall we say beat him down. Add to that hidden "resort fees" which most don't know about until check out, and you have got the relationship. Wynn moving away from five start impeccable service to just another hick joint with people spitting on the floor.
Quote: NokTangNot meant to argue, but, can you please post some rules you have seen which are "better" for the player at higher minimum tables. Thank you.
Blackjack rules players get as they bet more at some casinos:
3-2 instead of 6-5
Dealer stand on all 17's in higher limit games where it hits soft 17 in most others.
Sometimes surrender and RSA are permitted only at higher limit tables.
In really low limit bad games, a player may only be able to double down on 10 and 11 or not after splitting.
Quote: NokTangIt is without any doubt that crooked tables with magnets would focus on the "six down" pips...........I'm surprised this group has never heard of magnets under the felt and loaded dice. We aren't in Kansas.
There have been people nuked for being boisterous about cheap dice. These people need to be reinstated and apologized to.
Quote: DeMangoThere have been people nuked for being boisterous about cheap dice. These people need to be reinstated and apologized to.
Serious question: Who would they be?
If someone was nuked for being boisterous about cheap dice alone, I'd be happy to look into that. If, however, there were violations of other Forum Rules, I doubt I'd be compelled to reverse anything.
For example, you could have a solid professional BJ player on here, but with enough violations of Forum Rules, he'll end up nuked. MickeyCrimm is another example, wealth of machine AP information, nuked for multiple Rules violations.
Although, if you have a few handles to throw out there, I'd be more than happy to review post history.
Check two threads from a couple of years ago, Do Casinos Cheat? and Bad Dice. He even posted a picture of some magnet setup. At one point, it was even claimed that a casino near me had flippable magnets. After pounding on the tables and searching for switches there, I gave up.Quote: DeMangoSorry my sarcasm escaped you. I was thinking of Harley and Eagleeye of course, even they never got paranoid enough to blame magnets.
Quote: SanchoPanzaCheck two threads from a couple of years ago, Do Casinos Cheat? and Bad Dice. He even posted a picture of some magnet setup. At one point, it was even claimed that a casino near me had flippable magnets. After pounding on the tables and searching for switches there, I gave up.
I was 86'd from Fiesta Rancho following up on Harley's suggestion that bad dice might be in play.
I definitely would advise that any time you do anything that a casino might possibly frown upon, you do so of your own choosing and with due regard for the potential negative impacts.
Making enemies is not something you want to do unintentionally. And the eye is ALWAYS watching and they talk amongst themselves.
They say, "do your own due diligence."
But if the DD involves counting anything in a casino (even the faces of dice) tread VERY carefully!
