There is no such thing as "rigged"

Legally, can anyone find the word "rigged" in any of their state laws?

A casino, is a state run lottery. Set up and controlled by the state. The only reason anyone opens up a casino is because it is a business that is going to make them, and the state money. The games in a casino are not called "banking" games for no reason. The business owner who decides to open up a casino is the one putting up the money to be lost.

First of all now that you've made it this far, I'm going to tell you a story of my experience in roulette.

Second of all I have been reading up on ZenKinG and the threads that he's created. And I don't believe in coincidence.

Third of all, I live and play in Sands Bethelehem and ONLY play there.

Unfortunately for ZenKinG, and I say this with my deepest regret for igniting this topic after so long, and after the pain and agony it seems he has gone through - that I believe you.

I say I dont believe in coincidence because since day one I have assumed the worst of casinos. I have been a very serious roulette player and have been in some what of the same situation that ZenKinG has been in - at the same exact casino. And this includes blackjack, as I have seen what happens first hand at the Sands in bethlehem.

I am not a counter, or doing anything illegal, so I FEEL as if im bulletproof when it comes to interacting with the gaming commision. The gaming comission in my mind is there for US as players, but as I have found out, they are more there for the state,

I see a bit of ZenKinG's passion in me. I've come to the casino with laws printed out to make sure everything went to code. I am the one who calls a dealer out for mistakes, and call the pit boss over to make things right. I am the one teaching new dealers the codes they should know when they dont know what they are doing. As long as you follow the law in PA you cant be thrown out.

Honestly, I think ZenKinG is a bit parnoid though. I've seen people with lots and lots of money, betting in random patterns, and I've never seen anyone backed off. Anyone willing to bet money is at the advantage of the house edge at the sands and trust me its larger than anyone who hasn't played there will ever see.

I do lose, but only when I am playing with other people. Head to head "works" completely differently at that place.

Anyways, I know you all do not want to hear about this any more but I wanted to say I have learned the same lessons and have gone through the same thought process as AenKinG, as in that rigging is something, when it's nothing legally, but more or less a word that is a distraction from what the real word is - random.

"Rigged"? No. ("Rig" and its variations, yes, but always in reference to "a" rig, or rigging.)

However, California Penal Code 334(a) says:
"Every person who owns or operates any concession, and who fraudulently obtains money from another by means of any hidden mechanical device or obstruction with intent to diminish the chance of any patron to win a prize, or by any other fraudulent means, shall be punished as in the case of theft of property of like value."
Also, "cheat" and "cheating" in reference to gambling appears quite often in the Penal Code, although almost always to players cheating, and not the casino.

The things you learn: 334(c) specifically, and by name, bans Razzle-Dazzle. (You may know it better as "The Razzle," "Ten Points or More Win," or similar names.)

Quote: ThatDonGuy

"Rigged"? No. ("Rig" and its variations, yes, but always in reference to "a" rig, or rigging.)

However, California Penal Code 334(a) says:
"Every person who owns or operates any concession, and who fraudulently obtains money from another by means of any hidden mechanical device or obstruction with intent to diminish the chance of any patron to win a prize, or by any other fraudulent means, shall be punished as in the case of theft of property of like value."
Also, "cheat" and "cheating" in reference to gambling appears quite often in the Penal Code, although almost always to players cheating, and not the casino.

The things you learn: 334(c) specifically, and by name, bans Razzle-Dazzle. (You may know it better as "The Razzle," "Ten Points or More Win," or similar names.)

I am saying that ZenKinG and others harp on the word rigged and it means nothing legally. He wants to kick it to the man but hes never going to legally be able to do it by saying the casino rigged the games when its not the casinos who even choose the equipment within the walls of its own casino.

Everything in a casino is rigged to be random; nothing is Jerry-rigged and nothing is Jury-rigged.

Wheels are rigged to be random. Procedure books are explicit, suits and surveillance see that such procedures are followed if even one player is present.

Dealers who do something different in an attempt to cheat you are a figment of your imagination. The casino wants "smiling robots" who follow procedures which is why a dealer without anyone sitting at his roulette table and who is just spinning the wheel has to follow procedures about alternating the little white balls and alternating the direction of spin as well as looking at a designated spot on the table when he actually releases the ball.

If you spot a blackjack dealer making a mistake it is not because you happen to be sitting there any more than it is because you happen not to be sitting there.

Neither casinos nor their employees have the luxury of 'personal grudges' while on duty. If 'x' happens in a casino, it has nothing whatsoever to do with your presence there.

Quote: heatmap

I have been a very serious roulette player and have been in some what of the same situation that ZenKinG has been in - at the same exact casino.

Roulette.

"Somewhat of the same situation same situation" Please explain.

Casinos probably should be more transparent and have to answer questions about what they do. Rigged is usually a term meaning something is grossly unfair, doesn't matter if it's illegal or not.

Quote: AxelWolf

Roulette.

"Somewhat of the same situation same situation" Please explain.

I used to always joke about it being rigged and a pit boss told me to jokingly take it up with the gaming comission and i did. He was not happy when i got back because I went it and made my claim. I came with patents and every thing. No lie. After they talked me down we settled on the phrase "fair" and that's the equivalent of random and I came back out and was immediately told that if I kept talking about it I would be asked to leave for the day and that I was bothering people playing roulette. So I shut up and the next week every time I came in I swore I saw the same guy behind me when I would bet. It's a small floor and I could be wrong but he was usually behind me watching me.

It seems like the only problem is that you were bothering other people playing roulette. Everything else about the game and the casino was exactly as it should be. Unless there's more that you haven't yet told us.

Quote: TomG

It seems like the only problem is that you were bothering other people playing roulette. Everything else about the game and the casino was exactly as it should be. Unless there's more that you haven't yet told us.

I don't know if they would have in the first place and I believe in anonymity but they didn't specify who and I'm generally a likeable guy who people like talking to so you may be correct as I'm assuming I was backed off in a legally compliant way although I only know a fraction of the laws I don't know if there is one pertaining to bothering other guests but who knows

Has heatmap been introduced to Nathan yet? Seems like a match made in heaven.

Quote: heatmap

I used to always joke about it being rigged and a pit boss told me to jokingly take it up with the gaming comission and i did. He was not happy when i got back because I went it and made my claim. I came with patents and every thing. No lie. After they talked me down we settled on the phrase "fair" and that's the equivalent of random and I came back out and was immediately told that if I kept talking about it I would be asked to leave for the day and that I was bothering people playing roulette. So I shut up and the next week every time I came in I swore I saw the same guy behind me when I would bet. It's a small floor and I could be wrong but he was usually behind me watching me.

Roullet is "rigged" ... Its called a 5.26% HA. There's no betting system that will overcome that.

Quote: billryan

Has heatmap been introduced to Nathan yet? Seems like a match made in heaven.

Are you and her already past the introductory phase?

@maxpen I dont want to go down that rabbit hole ive dug many of my own

Quote: billryan

Has heatmap been introduced to Nathan yet? Seems like a match made in heaven.

edit

Quote: AxelWolf

Roullet is "rigged" ... Its called a 5.26% HA. There's no betting system that will overcome that.

True. And neither the casino nor the other players want some jerk sitting there mouthing off about anything negative whether his vocabulary involves 'rig' or 'biased' or 'unfair'. Behave yourself or get lost. What is so difficult to understand about that.

Quote: FleaStiff

True. And neither the casino nor the other players want some jerk sitting there mouthing off about anything negative whether his vocabulary involves 'rig' or 'biased' or 'unfair'. Behave yourself or get lost. What is so difficult to understand about that.

The only reason I took it as a back off is because most people are willing to speak up to me and voice their opinions as if they think I'm crazy and they say it. I just figured someone would have said some thing to me about it before going to security. I can normally walk into that casino and have many smiling faces greet me. I'm not well known but I have a good time and keep people laughing even though I always joke about stuff like that. I've never had anyone complain to me and I've been their 4 years straight on and off. It was a weird day that day.

Quote: heatmap

but I have a good time and keep people laughing even though I always joke about stuff like that.
I've never had anyone complain to me and I've been their 4 years straight on and off. It was a weird day that day.

They probably just got fed up with your "always joking about stuff like that''.