bodyforlife
bodyforlife
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June 10th, 2017 at 8:20:38 PM permalink
I had thought that the Cosmopolitian, the Venetian/Palazzo, and the Wynn were the last hold outs. Does anyone know if the Wynn and Venetian/Palazzo have going to charging for parking also? I was a bit amazed at paying $45 before being charged for the room ($35 resort fee + $10 parking). Things are getting a little out of hand. Just glad I got Saturday comped (Sunday was casino rate + the $45). On the comped night, I still had to pay $10 for the parking. Admittedly, having a couple of nights at the Cosmopolitan for a couple hundred dollars is still a good deal in my book. Just putting the info out there for anyone interested.
Ibeatyouraces
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ZenKinG
June 10th, 2017 at 8:36:27 PM permalink
It's only a matter of time before you're so nickel and dimed, that by the time you reach the tables or machines you'll be broke!
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Boz
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June 10th, 2017 at 8:36:48 PM permalink
https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/the-cosmopolitan-of-las-vegas-begins-paid-parking/

Started last month, blaming the others for doing it first.
ZenKinG
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June 10th, 2017 at 8:49:28 PM permalink
Here's the places on the strip or 'close' to the strip that still offer free parking.

Wynn
Encore
Rio
Treasure Island
Pallazo
Venetian
Palace Station
Palms
Planet Hollywood
SLS
Stratosphere
Tropicana

Places like Caesars and I forget who else let you park free as well, but you have to be a 'local' and show proof of residency such as a license. Many other places offer free parking as well but you have to be there less than an hour. The above list is purely FREE though no matter if local or hours spent in the casino.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
Calder
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June 10th, 2017 at 9:11:47 PM permalink
They seem to keep this up to date:
Vegas Message Board
onenickelmiracle
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June 10th, 2017 at 9:37:26 PM permalink
This must be what they call psychological warfare. I've never understood it before, but they're trying to get into heads. This parking thing is a joke at a casino. I never believe politicians that say there are too many regulations because of things like this and resort fees. There are not enough.
I am a robot.
Zcore13
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June 10th, 2017 at 11:24:34 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

This must be what they call psychological warfare. I've never understood it before, but they're trying to get into heads. This parking thing is a joke at a casino. I never believe politicians that say there are too many regulations because of things like this and resort fees. There are not enough.



What makes it a joke? It's their business. If you don't like it, don't go there. If enough people don't go there, they will change it back. When it comes to business customers vote with their wallet. Many a business has made a fatal mistake and paid dearly for it.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
RS
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June 10th, 2017 at 11:26:43 PM permalink
I don't think something like paid parking should be regulated by the government, especially (if forced to offer free parking) the casino is liable to people parking at their location and walking to another casino. It's not so bad in LV, but imagine a location where parking is extremely limited. Should places in NYC be regulated and not be allowed to have paid parking?
onenickelmiracle
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June 11th, 2017 at 12:22:29 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

What makes it a joke? It's their business. If you don't like it, don't go there. If enough people don't go there, they will change it back. When it comes to business customers vote with their wallet. Many a business has made a fatal mistake and paid dearly for it.


ZCore13


Ah, but this isn't a Subway restaurant, it's a regulated casino held to higher standards. The casino really doesn't have a need to charge, they're trying to screw with people's emotions I think and divert money that should be taxed. They're not allowed to charge people to enter the property, shouldn't be allowed to charge for parking. It wasn't part of the deal when the casino was granted a license, having the license ensures limited competion for business which is supposed to be shared with the state through taxes. Parking fees and resort fees skirt the taxes. I also dont like it intimidates people into playing and playing carded to get these fees waived, plus they're defacto charging for using free play redemption which must not require play. Just build the cost of parking into the spending that already occurs(as it really is already).

I look at it as a private bureaucracy, get off my back. It's like Dr. Evil runs these places and I don't like companies having that much power over people. We're supposed to have inalienable rights, the majority of people don't like these things, government should respond if the democratic process was working right. Having people park in the casino lot is supposed to be a good thing, not a bad thing they need to recoup, they're there to spend money, if they don't, eat the cost. Governmental agencies have negotiating power over the casinos and it should be used to control them, not forfeited so we're controlled. As we see this, we see the people are the enemy of both, I dont like that.

It's the same thing with automatic exclusions when people are on self-exclusion lists, the casinos don't do it to protect the people, they do it to intimidate people from getting on lists too close to home, by taking away casinos far away they can control because of the traveling hassle.
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ZenKinG
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June 11th, 2017 at 12:55:20 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Ah, but this isn't a Subway restaurant, it's a regulated casino held to higher standards. The casino really doesn't have a need to charge, they're trying to screw with people's emotions I think and divert money that should be taxed. They're not allowed to charge people to enter the property, shouldn't be allowed to charge for parking. It wasn't part of the deal when the casino was granted a license, having the license ensures limited competion for business which is supposed to be shared with the state through taxes. Parking fees and resort fees skirt the taxes. I also dont like it intimidates people into playing and playing carded to get these fees waived, plus they're defacto charging for using free play redemption which must not require play. Just build the cost of parking into the spending that already occurs(as it really is already).

I look at it as a private bureaucracy, get off my back. It's like Dr. Evil runs these places and I don't like companies having that much power over people. We're supposed to have inalienable rights, the majority of people don't like these things, government should respond if the democratic process was working right. Having people park in the casino lot is supposed to be a good thing, not a bad thing they need to recoup, they're there to spend money, if they don't, eat the cost. Governmental agencies have negotiating power over the casinos and it should be used to control them, not forfeited so we're controlled. As we see this, we see the people are the enemy of both, I dont like that.

It's the same thing with automatic exclusions when people are on self-exclusion lists, the casinos don't do it to protect the people, they do it to intimidate people from getting on lists too close to home, by taking away casinos far away they can control because of the traveling hassle.



Now you know why I'm paranoid of the whole casino industry. Government is not on our side. They're on the casinos side. Makes you question everything if its like that of who they're actually protecting. The state gets billions in tax revenue from these casinos. That's why they would never lose their license for cheating. Just a slap on the wrist fine.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
RS
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June 11th, 2017 at 1:23:15 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Ah, but this isn't a Subway restaurant, it's a regulated casino held to higher standards. The casino really doesn't have a need to charge...


1) What are you talking about, a casino being held to higher standards? They're held to different standards, being they are different business types.
2) McDonald's doesn't need to charge for ketchup or sauces, but they do (some don't I think?). It's like saying they don't have a need to charge for X because they make money through Y.

In Californian grocery stores, they charge you for bags. I'm not sure if that's all or some of them. I think there might be some worthless law where they can't give out plastic bags or something like that now. I'm not too sure. Just glad I moved out of that hell hole of a state.

Quote:

the majority of people don't like these things, government should respond if the democratic process was working right.


Uhh, no. This is exactly why the USA is not a democracy.

Quote:

Governmental agencies have negotiating power over the casinos and it should be used to control them


The rest of your post made it seem like you don't like the "control" the casino has over its patrons. But when it comes to government and the casino, control is now a good thing?


I don't like the casinos charging for parking (who does?), but I certainly believe they should have the right to charge for parking if they want to, assuming it doesn't break any laws, regulations, license agreements, etc. Yes, I think there absolutely needs to be laws & regulations, but over paid parking? Come on..
billryan
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June 11th, 2017 at 2:48:59 AM permalink
Every dollar a casino can wring out the sheeple for parking and resorts fees is a dollar they don't need to try and take from us.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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June 11th, 2017 at 2:49:51 AM permalink
Casinos are regulated because the gambling industry cannot and has never been trusted. We don't need all these fees, they're unnecessary. It's in the regulators best interest to stop the fleecing, dont understand why they do nothing. If the resort fees were a part of the room rate, which they are in reality, Nevada would pull more in, in taxes. If these parking fees were not there, Nevada would pull in more money in gaming taxes. Plus, isn't that Nevada's dirty secret, many pedestrians are hit by cars, and these policies are just going to put more people walking in the streets. The casinos will still get plenty of money, doesn't have to be this way. Expenses are deductible, costs of doing business, charge for your services to include these expenses unless impossible.

I pay 10c for plastic bags at Aldi and glad to do it, they're awesome strong bags, bigger to hold more than a gallon of milk.

I know the USA is not a democracy, it's a democratic republic, I said democratic process. It's the constitution that was designed so the few would not be so powerful that they would control the many so unfairly. Basically to stop majority powers from controlling minority powers so severely. I think we've failed letting money be so powerful in politics. They're real aps, they don't play losing games, and all the money they make, they reinvest in politics to gain more power, at our expense. I want balance.

I'm not sure Id pay for parking if I ever went to Vegas. I'd either not get a car, walk or use other means. I might just tell them I have no money, the car doesn't go in reverse, until they give in and let me out or maybe I'd just drive out through the gate and be on my way. Can I borrow your car? I don't think the police will bother showing up looking for it, but I might be wrong. I'm not doing that.

How does this system work btw? Do they charge going in or do they charge going out? How do they handle it when people don't have money to pay when they leave? Can they really hold you hostage for not being able to pay? If you don't pay, people cant leave, so how do they keep others inside?
I am a robot.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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June 11th, 2017 at 2:50:35 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Every dollar a casino can wring out the sheeple for parking and resorts fees is a dollar they don't need to try and take from us.

fallacy.
I am a robot.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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June 11th, 2017 at 3:31:59 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Every dollar a casino can wring out the sheeple for parking and resorts fees is a dollar they don't need to try and take from us.

I don't quite understand your reasoning. Also, people who try to take money from you usually do not need to do it, they simply enjoy doing it.
RS
RS
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June 11th, 2017 at 4:24:57 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Casinos are regulated because the gambling industry cannot and has never been trusted.


No. The gambling industry is regulated because, well, all industries are regulated, AFAIK.

Quote:

We don't need all these fees, they're unnecessary. It's in the regulators best interest to stop the fleecing, dont understand why they do nothing. If the resort fees were a part of the room rate, which they are in reality, Nevada would pull more in, in taxes. If these parking fees were not there, Nevada would pull in more money in gaming taxes. Plus, isn't that Nevada's dirty secret, many pedestrians are hit by cars, and these policies are just going to put more people walking in the streets. The casinos will still get plenty of money, doesn't have to be this way. Expenses are deductible, costs of doing business, charge for your services to include these expenses unless impossible.


It might be in the State's best interest to regulate or attempt to regulate paid-parking and other fees, but these things are not regulation-worthy, as people aren't at risk or harmed because the casino charges resort fees, paid parking, etc. I believe something happened a little while back, where someone could book a room for say $200 a night and that's what would show up as the price online when booking, but an extra $35 or whatever would be tacked on at check-in....essentially it was changed so that the online booking is now required to show all fees, taxes, etc.

Quote:

I know the USA is not a democracy, it's a democratic republic, I said democratic process. It's the constitution that was designed so the few would not be so powerful that they would control the many so unfairly. Basically to stop majority powers from controlling minority powers so severely. I think we've failed letting money be so powerful in politics. They're real aps, they don't play losing games, and all the money they make, they reinvest in politics to gain more power, at our expense. I want balance.


Partly to prevent the few powerful would not be able to control the masses, but also so the masses wouldn't be able to control the few.

Quote:

I'm not sure Id pay for parking if I ever went to Vegas. I'd either not get a car, walk or use other means. I might just tell them I have no money, the car doesn't go in reverse, until they give in and let me out or maybe I'd just drive out through the gate and be on my way. Can I borrow your car? I don't think the police will bother showing up looking for it, but I might be wrong. I'm not doing that.

How does this system work btw? Do they charge going in or do they charge going out? How do they handle it when people don't have money to pay when they leave? Can they really hold you hostage for not being able to pay? If you don't pay, people cant leave, so how do they keep others inside?


I'm not sure how it works exactly. I've always gotten free parking as a local / seven stars. But I believe you might have to pay before leaving at a kiosk type thing, but not sure. If I remember correctly, the bars looked pretty sturdy and you might mess up your car if you drive through it.
onenickelmiracle
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June 11th, 2017 at 4:28:49 AM permalink
Just thought of something, locals dont pay to park, but locals parking at a casino before going to the airport, filled a casino lot, which claimed it had to charge to discourage this behavior. Then once that casino charged, all the rest started getting filled, charged to discourage, encouraged them somewhere else, snowballed. Just charge locals, parking problem fixed.
I am a robot.
lilredrooster
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June 11th, 2017 at 5:45:59 AM permalink
the last time i was in vegas i used the city bus and found it very efficient and comfortable. very little waiting time. the charge was $8 for the entire day. i only used it to go from freemont to downtown and to the strip, i don't know about elsewhere. i was very impressed with it. here are 2 links that give info on hotels in vegas that DO NOT charge resort fees:


https://vegasexperience.com/skip-resort-fees-at-these-four-downtown-las-vegas-hotels/

https://www.lasvegasjaunt.com/las-vegas-resort-fees-2016-guide/
Please don't feed the trolls
ZenKinG
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June 11th, 2017 at 6:02:41 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Casinos are regulated because the gambling industry cannot and has never been trusted. We don't need all these fees, they're unnecessary. It's in the regulators best interest to stop the fleecing, dont understand why they do nothing. If the resort fees were a part of the room rate, which they are in reality, Nevada would pull more in, in taxes. If these parking fees were not there, Nevada would pull in more money in gaming taxes. Plus, isn't that Nevada's dirty secret, many pedestrians are hit by cars, and these policies are just going to put more people walking in the streets. The casinos will still get plenty of money, doesn't have to be this way. Expenses are deductible, costs of doing business, charge for your services to include these expenses unless impossible.

I pay 10c for plastic bags at Aldi and glad to do it, they're awesome strong bags, bigger to hold more than a gallon of milk.

I know the USA is not a democracy, it's a democratic republic, I said democratic process. It's the constitution that was designed so the few would not be so powerful that they would control the many so unfairly. Basically to stop majority powers from controlling minority powers so severely. I think we've failed letting money be so powerful in politics. They're real aps, they don't play losing games, and all the money they make, they reinvest in politics to gain more power, at our expense. I want balance.

I'm not sure Id pay for parking if I ever went to Vegas. I'd either not get a car, walk or use other means. I might just tell them I have no money, the car doesn't go in reverse, until they give in and let me out or maybe I'd just drive out through the gate and be on my way. Can I borrow your car? I don't think the police will bother showing up looking for it, but I might be wrong. I'm not doing that.

How does this system work btw? Do they charge going in or do they charge going out? How do they handle it when people don't have money to pay when they leave? Can they really hold you hostage for not being able to pay? If you don't pay, people cant leave, so how do they keep others inside?



You pay when you are leaving, at least that has been my experience in two different casinos(one on the strip and one downtown). The downtown one didn't even have a person to collect it and took no cash, you were forced to pay with card, probably in case you lost everything that night.

I've wondered the same thing, what would casinos do if you tell them you lost everything? Surely they wouldn't hold up traffic behind you to get out. It makes no sense why casinos don't charge you upfront.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
monet0412
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June 11th, 2017 at 7:19:03 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

You pay when you are leaving, at least that has been my experience in two different casinos(one on the strip and one downtown). The downtown one didn't even have a person to collect it and took no cash, you were forced to pay with card, probably in case you lost everything that night.

I've wondered the same thing, what would casinos do if you tell them you lost everything? Surely they wouldn't hold up traffic behind you to get out. It makes no sense why casinos don't charge you upfront.



You can't figure out why they don't charge up front? Many reasons! For starters I don't want to be charged up front when I'm checking into my room before I checked in. Second is why make a long line going in to lose money, make them wait after losing not going in since some places have parking pass express lines going out. Third is some places go by time. Many other reasons really. I never have a problem with parking since I have all the passes but charging for parking has caused me nothing but stress at times since they guard it like Nazis these days.
bodyforlife
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June 11th, 2017 at 7:35:25 AM permalink
Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies and posting the lists of casinos still offering free parking. Rather than get into the politics of the issue, I will simply say the impact this has had on me.

I go to Vegas less. I personally feel this move is penny wise and pound foolish. How much it impacts the casino is still to be seen. Clearly if their business drops 20%+, they may reconsider. I thought the same might happen to the Wynn when they reduced their craps odds to double instead of 3-4-5. So far, no change (but every time I've gone in the Wynn since, it's noticeable how empty their craps tables are). And the Wynn recently sent me a one question survey asking why I was not taking advantage of their reduced offers, which I always found laughable as I often get free offers from the Venetian/Palazzo and feel their rooms are certainly comparable to the Wynn.

It used to be that rooms were cheap (or comped) and food was the same. They were loss leaders as the casino knew those costs were being subsidized by gambling. Those days appear to be over as even a buffet on the strip can run you $45 on a weekend night. I now rent a car when I go and drive to restaurants that are off strip or pick up some take out food to bring back to the hotel. It's usually only $50 for the rental and I figure it's only $15 more than a r/t Lyft ride from the airport (but I save significantly more by eating off strip). With $10+ a day on parking, I'll have to reconsider that.

I live in the SF Bay Area so the main thing this nickel and diming has done to me is get me to take more trips to Lake Tahoe and Reno which are much more generous than Las Vegas. I always get comped rooms and typically casino cash and food credit. Sure, it's not Vegas, but it's a much better value for the money.

Ultimately, I'm thinking the bean counters are banking on Millennials just being fast and loose with their money, and not caring about being gouged. If you're of that age range, please don't take offense to that comment (I've certainly seen some Millennials that were prudent with their money and were focused on home ownership and retirement savings). Unfortunately, I've seen many more that would rather piss away their money on night clubs and $400 bottles of Krystals (and these are the ones the bean counters are hoping to suck in)
ZenKinG
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June 11th, 2017 at 7:40:37 AM permalink
Quote: bodyforlife

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies and posting the lists of casinos still offering free parking. Rather than get into the politics of the issue, I will simply say the impact this has had on me.

I go to Vegas less. I personally feel this move is penny wise and pound foolish. How much it impacts the casino is still to be seen. Clearly if their business drops 20%+, they may reconsider. I thought the same might happen to the Wynn when they reduced their craps odds to double instead of 3-4-5. So far, no change (but every time I've gone in the Wynn since, it's noticeable how empty their craps tables are). And the Wynn recently sent me a one question survey asking why I was not taking advantage of their reduced offers, which I always found laughable as I often get free offers from the Venetian/Palazzo and feel their rooms are certainly comparable to the Wynn.

It used to be that rooms were cheap (or comped) and food was the same. They were loss leaders as the casino knew those costs were being subsidized by gambling. Those days appear to be over as even a buffet on the strip can run you $45 on a weekend night. I now rent a car when I go and drive to restaurants that are off strip or pick up some take out food to bring back to the hotel. It's usually only $50 for the rental and I figure it's only $15 more than a r/t Lyft ride from the airport (but I save significantly more by eating off strip). With $10+ a day on parking, I'll have to reconsider that.

I live in the SF Bay Area so the main thing this nickel and diming has done to me is get me to take more trips to Lake Tahoe and Reno which are much more generous than Las Vegas. I always get comped rooms and typically casino cash and food credit. Sure, it's not Vegas, but it's a much better value for the money.

Ultimately, I'm thinking the bean counters are banking on Millennials just being fast and loose with their money, and not caring about being gouged. If you're of that age range, please don't take offense to that comment (I've certainly seen some Millennials that were prudent with their money and were focused on home ownership and retirement savings). Unfortunately, I've seen many more that would rather piss away their money on night clubs and $400 bottles of Krystals (and these are the ones the bean counters are hoping to suck in)



I guess I'm not your average millennial. By the way if you don't want to pay a $30 or as you mention a $45 buffet, check out Gold Coast buffet and MainSt station buffet, as well as the Palms buffet. They all run around $13-$15 for dinner depending on if you use a players card or not. Get the card and save $2. Lunch and breakfast are even cheaper. About same value you'll get at a strip property in terms of food quality for about 50% cheaper.

For everyone complaining about parking or this and that, if you want change, it all starts with hitting these casinos where it hurts them the most, THEIR WALLET. And how does change begin? It begins with you and you educating and helping others as much as you can about whatever the problem is at hand. Be the change you want to see in the world and the rest will take care of itself. It's the same with 6:5, if everyone just stopped playing and did their part by educating everyone they meet at the tables and the tables get emptier and emptier, watch how fast casinos change back to 3:2.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
bodyforlife
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June 11th, 2017 at 7:51:27 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

I guess I'm not your average millennial. By the way if you don't want to pay a $30 or as you mention a $45 buffet, check out Gold Coast buffet and MainSt station buffet, as well as the Palms buffet. They all run around $13-$15 for dinner depending on if you use a players card or not. Get the card and save $2. Lunch and breakfast are even cheaper. About same value you'll get at a strip property in terms of food quality for about 50% cheaper.

For everyone complaining about parking or this and that, if you want change, it all starts with hitting these casinos where it hurts them the most, THEIR WALLET. And how does change begin? It begins with you and you educating and helping others as much as you can about whatever the problem is at hand. Be the change you want to see in the world and the rest will take care of itself. Its the same with 6:5, if everyone just stopped playing and did their part by educating everyone they meet at the tables and the tables get emptier and emptier, watch how fast casinos change back to 3:2.



Thanks for the tips on the food. Admittedly, I'm not much of a buffet guy anyway (just not a big eater), but did occasionally go when prices were reasonable. As for the rest of your post, isn't that exactly what I did (less trips to Vegas and posting info on a forum that I'm hoping people read)? I'm thinking no one is going to sit on a corner with a bullhorn and try to preach to the people walking the strip that they are being ripped off. It's their money. They'll have to figure out what priorities they want to put on things in their lives.
ZenKinG
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June 11th, 2017 at 7:58:21 AM permalink
Quote: bodyforlife

Thanks for the tips on the food. Admittedly, I'm not much of a buffet guy anyway (just not a big eater), but did occasionally go when prices were reasonable. As for the rest of your post, isn't that exactly what I did (less trips to Vegas and posting info on a forum that I'm hoping people read)? I'm thinking no one is going to sit on a corner with a bullhorn and try to preach to the people walking the strip that they are being ripped off. It's their money. They'll have to figure out what priorities they want to put on things in their lives.



I wasn't calling you out with my post actually. There were others on here complaining. Actually if a bull horn is what it takes, you got to do it. I was and still am pretty close about plastering 1000's of flyers all over the strip saying"SAY NO TO 6:5". I also try and educate all the players at the table when I can to never play 6:5. I even sat down at a 6:5 table once just to talk to advise the players. If everyone was like me, 3:2 would be gone within a year as nobody would play it. Casinos would cry wolf to get their profits back.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
bodyforlife
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June 11th, 2017 at 8:02:55 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

I wasn't calling you out with my post actually. There were others on here complaining. Actually if a bull horn is what it takes, you got to do it. I was and still am pretty close about plastering 1000's of flyers all over the strip saying"SAY NO TO 6:5". I also try and educate all the players at the table when I can to never play 6:5. I even sat down at a 6:5 table once just to talk to advise the players. If everyone was like me, 3:2 would be gone within a year as nobody would play it. Casinos would cry wolf to get their profits back.



I'm a little surprise you weren't asked to leave a casino if you were making a habit of doing that. I've been asked to zip it when I mentioned to a craps player the house advantage on certain bets he was making. I never saw the bullhorn technique used to educate players on the bad odds the Wynn was offering for craps. And yet, people figured it out pretty quick (I do think craps players are a different breed). Blackjack is simple enough that most recreational gamblers understand the rules. I'm guessing you could do all the educating you want and they probably won't much care. And I do think that game is played by many more of the casual gamblers that don't get so much into the casino advantage.
ZenKinG
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June 11th, 2017 at 8:15:20 AM permalink
Quote: bodyforlife

I'm a little surprise you weren't asked to leave a casino if you were making a habit of doing that. I've been asked to zip it when I mentioned to a craps player the house advantage on certain bets he was making. I never saw the bullhorn technique used to educate players on the bad odds the Wynn was offering for craps. And yet, people figured it out pretty quick (I do think craps players are a different breed). Blackjack is simple enough that most recreational gamblers understand the rules. I'm guessing you could do all the educating you want and they probably won't much care. And I do think that game is played by many more of the casual gamblers that don't get so much into the casino advantage.



Yeah you're right. The one guy I told at the 6:5 table simply stared at me with a blank face and didn't care what I was saying and continually kept placing his bets into the circle. Some people just don't care. I guess to their defense casual players don't play enough hands anyway to make a difference whether its 6:5 or not. Of course it still makes a small difference in the short run but nothing for them to notice unless they're betting 100+. The problem is most 6:5 players are red chippers because like you said these are CASUAL players just on vacation or passing time.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
DRich
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June 11th, 2017 at 4:12:39 PM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

Yeah you're right. The one guy I told at the 6:5 table simply stared at me with a blank face and didn't care what I was saying and continually kept placing his bets into the circle. Some people just don't care. I guess to their defense casual players don't play enough hands anyway to make a difference whether its 6:5 or not. Of course it still makes a small difference in the short run but nothing for them to notice unless they're betting 100+. The problem is most 6:5 players are red chippers because like you said these are CASUAL players just on vacation or passing time.



You need to understand that if you hope to be a professional gambler in casinos you should want to see lots of ploppies playing poor games. Without ploppies the casinos will go away.
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ZenKinG
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June 11th, 2017 at 4:23:41 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

You need to understand that if you hope to be a professional gambler in casinos you should want to see lots of ploppies playing poor games. Without ploppies the casinos will go away.



That's true, but in this case. Blackjack will always be offered regardless if its 3:2 or 6:5.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
onenickelmiracle
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June 11th, 2017 at 5:03:50 PM permalink
I don't think not going somewhere or not spending money somewhere ever works. All the big businesses copy each other's moves in uncoordinated coordinated collusion. If everyone were to boycott one company of the group, it would work because they would be weakened knowing the others are benefitting. Could work with gas stations locally if the people were to only buy gas at one company until the target agreed to only sell gas at the national average or less. You would boycott the early benefactor if they didn't pledge to do the same.
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rxwine
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June 11th, 2017 at 5:26:58 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

What makes it a joke? It's their business. If you don't like it, don't go there. If enough people don't go there, they will change it back. When it comes to business customers vote with their wallet. Many a business has made a fatal mistake and paid dearly for it.



Casino customers would wield a lot more power if they actually stopped complaining independently and actually worked together on some issues.

But whatever.
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RS
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June 12th, 2017 at 12:45:59 AM permalink
Craps players are absolutely a different breed than blackjack players. For one, craps is an intimidating game to learn and play initially, so many casual gamblers don't learn it. It's the most complicated game from a ploppy perspective. So those that play it have put some type of effort in learning and understanding it. Blackjack doesn't require that, as the rules of the game are straightforward and most know the rules without learning it....you don't need to know how/when you can split, resplit, double, etc. in order to play blackjack.

The main problem for APs about 6:5 BJ is that it really does not hurt the ploppy that much. If you're playing proper basic strategy, the HE goes from (about) 0.5% to 2%. That's a 4x increase in expected loss....and if you play a lot, you should notice it over some time. But with a casual gambler or ploppy who might play once a month for a few hours (at the most I think), who doesn't follow basic strategy but plays with a 1.5% to 2% disadvantage on 3:2, is now playing with a 3-4% loss on 6:5. They aren't losing 4x as much, but 2x as much. The real bad ones, even less of a factor. Also, since they play infrequently, they don't get to the point where they realize they're losing much more than they used to. Now add in variance, and the two games are nearly identical, as you won't be able to distinguish sessions played on a 3:2 from sessions played on 6:5. It'd be even tougher to distinguish if you're not using proper strategy.
bodyforlife
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June 12th, 2017 at 3:43:08 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Casino customers would wield a lot more power if they actually stopped complaining independently and actually worked together on some issues.

But whatever.



It's been addressed. Of course, it's an easy comment to make, but a much more difficult one to put into practice. Do you have some suggestion on how that would be accomplished other than what's already been stated (i.e. vote with your pocketbook and don't go or use internet forums like this one to put the word out)?.
Rigondeaux
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June 12th, 2017 at 6:51:46 AM permalink
On the regulation front, what I'd favor is the prevention or breaking up of oligopoly. Cp and mgm can tacitly collude to dictate what happens to the detriment of customers.

While there are a few good things for customers, on the whole allowing two massive corporations to dominate the market has been bad for employees and customers.

It's also dangerous because if the management of those companies screw up badly enough they can damage the whole economy of the state very badly. And their personal interest is only on short term profit, in many cases.
boymimbo
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June 12th, 2017 at 9:58:08 AM permalink
Most people who come to Vegas, the large majority, actually, are casual gamblers looking to have a good time. That means drinking for free while playing a game they know, 6:5 Blackjack, usually at a $10 table with scantily clad dealers. And if every blackjack cost them $3 (which it does), it essentially pays for that free drink. They also play slots and a tiny bit of Video Poker. You see this all the time, the timid player playing Video Poker, keeping one to a Royal in a DW game, not knowing what they are doing.

As for Parking and Resort fees, you pay the full hotel tax on the resort fee so it's a hidden cost (to you). Parking is another way to get money off you. For regular players on Pearl or above at MGM it's free.

To be clear, most hotels in major cities charge for parking. and it is not included in the cost of the room. Chicago will charge 30 - 40/day. New York is close to $50. Niagara Falls charges you $20 - $30.

I don't have nearly as much of a problem with parking as I do the resort fees. There are some places that charge it outside of Las Vegas as well. Niagara Falls is mired in a bit of controversy called the Tourism Fee. What it is? It's a "tax" that hotels and restaurants charge and the rate varies. The amount goes to the restaurant or hotel and not to any business development fund or agency. Essentially it's illegal.
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bodyforlife
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June 12th, 2017 at 10:14:55 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo


To be clear, most hotels in major cities charge for parking. and it is not included in the cost of the room. Chicago will charge 30 - 40/day. New York is close to $50. Niagara Falls charges you $20 - $30.



But those rooms aren't subsidized from gambling. Therein lies the difference
billryan
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June 12th, 2017 at 10:53:38 AM permalink
Quote: bodyforlife

But those rooms aren't subsidized from gambling. Therein lies the difference



Fewer and fewer rooms are subsidised by gambling. While not exactly an afterthought, many visitors don't come here to gamble.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Erwan
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June 12th, 2017 at 11:09:50 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

the last time i was in vegas i used the city bus and found it very efficient and comfortable. very little waiting time. the charge was $8 for the entire day. i only used it to go from freemont to downtown and to the strip, i don't know about elsewhere. i was very impressed with it. here are 2 links that give info on hotels in vegas that DO NOT charge resort fees:


/skip-resort-fees-at-these-four-downtown-las-vegas-hotels/

/las-vegas-resort-fees-2016-guide/



About the resort fees, they have a 2017 updated list here: lasvegasjaunt /las-vegas-resort-fees-2017-guide/ (sorry can't post links properly)
LuckyPhow
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June 12th, 2017 at 11:43:10 AM permalink
Quote: Erwan

About the resort fees ... (sorry can't post links properly)



Welcome to WoV. This link works: Las Vegas Resort Fees 2017

And thanx for trying to share what everyone seems to be talking about.
onenickelmiracle
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June 12th, 2017 at 4:27:19 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Fewer and fewer rooms are subsidised by gambling. While not exactly an afterthought, many visitors don't come here to gamble.

I disagree, gambling subsidizes everything, even if gambling isn't the main profit source. Gambling built everything and keeps the doors open. Maybe we are in agreement after all, maybe some pay full price uncomped, but the gambling provides the ambience, the architecture and the base.
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billryan
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June 12th, 2017 at 6:59:09 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

I don't quite understand your reasoning. Also, people who try to take money from you usually do not need to do it, they simply enjoy doing it.



Casinos are welcome to try for my money. Just like they are welcome to invite me back for another shot when they fail.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
bodyforlife
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June 12th, 2017 at 7:30:33 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Fewer and fewer rooms are subsidised by gambling. While not exactly an afterthought, many visitors don't come here to gamble.



I completely disagree with this and I think it'd be interesting to see if you gutted all the slot machines and tables and put in some fine dining establishment and more shows. I'm guessing occupancy would drop significantly. Nope, gambling is the catalyst that feeds everything else.
MaxPen
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June 12th, 2017 at 8:02:06 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I disagree, gambling subsidizes everything, even if gambling isn't the main profit source. Gambling built everything and keeps the doors open. Maybe we are in agreement after all, maybe some pay full price uncomped, but the gambling provides the ambience, the architecture and the base.



Only about 10% of visitors come specifically to gamble and that percentage is dwindling. Roughly 40 million people come each year. Trade shows, conventions, and meetings are responsible for close to 1/4 of that visitation. Las Vegas is the number one trade show destination in the country. Approximately 60% of shows are held in Las Vegas. Most of these attendees and exhibitors are on corporate expense accounts.

Although only 10% come to gamble although 75% of people that visit do some sort of gambling. The average gambling budget in total brought by visitors is 500.00 in total. The average stay is 3.25 days. There is a large number of weekend warriors from California that come to party on the weekend. So you can see the casinos reason for caring less and less about the gambler.
Last edited by: MaxPen on Jun 12, 2017
onenickelmiracle
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June 12th, 2017 at 8:21:31 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Only about 10% of visitors come specifically to gamble and that percentage is dwindling. Roughly 40 million people come each year. Trade shows, conventions, and meetings are responsible for close to 1/4 of that visitation. Las Vegas is the number one trade show destination in the country. Approximately 60% of shows are held in Las Vegas. Most of these attendees and exhibitors are on corporate expense accounts.

Although only 10% come to gamble about 75% of people that visit do some sort of gambling. The average gambling budget in total brought by visitors is 500.00 in total. The average stay is 3.25 days. There is a large number of weekend warriors from California that come to party on the weekend. So you can see the casinos reason for caring less and less about the gambler.

I'm out of touch, that's big. Now when you mentioned the gambling budget brought, that number I seem to remember winding up around $2000. They just come with high hopes, high expectations, then hit the arms and credit cards.
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bodyforlife
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June 12th, 2017 at 8:28:22 PM permalink
"Although only 10% come to gamble about 75% of people that visit do some sort of gambling"

And that's all that needs to be said.

I think it's absurd to think if they pulled out the gambling, that it wouldn't have a severe impact on trade shows, and restaurant and show revenue, and the other business reasons people go to Vegas.
boymimbo
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June 12th, 2017 at 8:56:20 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Only about 10% of visitors come specifically to gamble and that percentage is dwindling. Roughly 40 million people come each year. Trade shows, conventions, and meetings are responsible for close to 1/4 of that visitation. Las Vegas is the number one trade show destination in the country. Approximately 60% of shows are held in Las Vegas. Most of these attendees and exhibitors are on corporate expense accounts.

Although only 10% come to gamble about 75% of people that visit do some sort of gambling. The average gambling budget in total brought by visitors is 500.00 in total. The average stay is 3.25 days. There is a large number of weekend warriors from California that come to party on the weekend. So you can see the casinos reason for caring less and less about the gambler.



These statistics are wrong. You can source this from Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority.

42.9 million came last year. 6,311,000 was for convention visits. The average gaming revenue per visitor is $226 as of 2016, down from a high of $277.28 in 2007. The average gambling budget is $619. The 5 year average visitor survey says that 47% come for pleasure, 10% to gamble, 9% for conventions/meetings, 12% for relatives/friends, 7% for other business, 7% for special events, 4% for weddings, and 4% for "passing through". About 47% come by car.

Now, last year $318/pp was spent on Food/Beverage, which has been trending up from $265 four years ago. They spend $157 on shopping, $68 on shows, and $36 on sightseeing.

The survey said that 69% of travelers gambled even though only 10% came to gamble. Of those who gambled, about 60% (5 years) of those spent 2 hours or less gambling (per day), 24% spent 3-4 hours per day, 16% spent more than that per day gambling.

Average spend on gambling per visitor has been flat so indeed casinos are courting non-gambling revenues to growth. This includes, as Max alludes to attempting to cater to younger people. Despite this the % of visitors by age has been flat with about 44% of visitors being in the under 40 crowd. Casinos are taking more out of people's pockets mainly via food and beverage.
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MaxPen
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June 12th, 2017 at 8:57:02 PM permalink
Nope, there is no other city that can accommodate trade shows like Las Vegas. If you tried to host the Consumer Electronics Show anywhere else the host city would get crushed. ConAg ConExpo which happens only every 3 years due to the scale would not fit in any other venue. Sema an Apex the same. Las Vegas has built itself into the destination capital of the world strategically and gambling is becoming more and more irrelevant to its overall success. Gambling is what it is known for but has no influence as to whether or not a group of exhibitors chooses to have their trade show here.
MaxPen
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June 12th, 2017 at 9:10:40 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

These statistics are wrong. You can source this from Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority.

42.9 million came last year. 6,311,000 was for convention visits. The average gaming revenue per visitor is $226 as of 2016, down from a high of $277.28 in 2007. The average gambling budget is $619. The 5 year average visitor survey says that 47% come for pleasure, 10% to gamble, 9% for conventions/meetings, 12% for relatives/friends, 7% for other business, 7% for special events, 4% for weddings, and 4% for "passing through". About 47% come by car.

Now, last year $318/pp was spent on Food/Beverage, which has been trending up from $265 four years ago. They spend $157 on shopping, $68 on shows, and $36 on sightseeing.

The survey said that 69% of travelers gambled even though only 10% came to gamble. Of those who gambled, about 60% (5 years) of those spent 2 hours or less gambling (per day), 24% spent 3-4 hours per day, 16% spent more than that per day gambling.

Average spend on gambling per visitor has been flat so indeed casinos are courting non-gambling revenues to growth. This includes, as Max alludes to attempting to cater to younger people. Despite this the % of visitors by age has been flat with about 44% of visitors being in the under 40 crowd. Casinos are taking more out of people's pockets mainly via food and beverage.



That's pretty much what I said. 1/4 for business and 10% to gamble and a shit ton of weekend warriors. The gamblers are the minority. I talk with the people who gather that info on a bi yearly basis. Sheldon Adelson is far more concerned with his trade show and convention business at the Sands than he is with his Las Vegas gambling operation. Casinos are way more focused on the club, show, shopping and restaurant experiences than they are on their gambling floors. Gambling today is nothing more than icing on the cake. They're not interested in giving away the cake anymore to get an extra smearing of icing. Because people are buying cake and are willing to pay for it with or without icing.
bodyforlife
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June 12th, 2017 at 9:13:27 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Nope, there is no other city that can accommodate trade shows like Las Vegas. If you tried to host the Consumer Electronics Show anywhere else the host city would get crushed. ConAg ConExpo which happens only every 3 years due to the scale would not fit in any other venue. Sema an Apex the same. Las Vegas has built itself into the destination capital of the world strategically and gambling is becoming more and more irrelevant to its overall success. Gambling is what it is known for but has no influence as to whether or not a group of exhibitors chooses to have their trade show here.



Completely untrue. In fact, Vegas is listed #10 in that respect. San Antonio being #1 with almost triple the hotel rooms of Vegas.
MaxPen
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June 12th, 2017 at 9:27:01 PM permalink
Quote: bodyforlife

Completely untrue. In fact, Vegas is listed #10 in that respect. San Antonio being #1 with almost triple the hotel rooms of Vegas.



http://press.lvcva.com/News-Releases/las-vegas-continues-its-streak-as-no.-1-trade-show-destination/s/b509ed8f-c2f7-4860-b806-bd9a0a05a434

San Antonio? Absolute rubbish. I do trade shows all over the US and Canada including China and Europe. There is no other city that competes with Las Vegas scale wise. In North America this is the only city with venues large enough to accommodate some of these behemoths. The next city even close is Orlando followed up by Chicago.

Las Vegas has 40,000+ more hotel rooms than any other city in the US. You do realize that Las Vegas has 160k + hotel rooms. Why don't you try googling city with most hotel rooms and get back to me. Keep in mind some of my numbers might not be exact but they're pretty damn close. My livelihood and others who depend on me is focused around these numbers.
MaxPen
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June 12th, 2017 at 9:44:43 PM permalink
Here I found an article that backs up what I just posted. San Antonio? I still can't stop laughing.

http://loyaltytraveler.boardingarea.com/2013/10/09/top-ten-u-s-cities-by-hotel-rooms/
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