Sorry, you've been overcomped
Quote: WizardofnothingThere are certain perks that Go to higher level cards, such as at m life you can skip the line at any property and get a cab quicker, vip check in , renewal gift at some mlife properties, but as far as offers go , the properties you are playing at DO NOT send out offers based in card level, it's a little like credit cards, and a prestige thing so to speak like putting down a centurion card from Amex vs regular Amex there are plenty of people who have a platinum Alex with just as high of a threshold for purchases
I agree with this. I thought hitting Noir would open lots of doors for new offers. I get zero offers. I think they purposely do that so that you book through your host. Noir is nice but it's not much different than Platinum. There is the extra "wow" factor when you use it at mid to lower tier Mlife properties. If yoire at the Bellagio or Aria, Noirs are dime a dozen.
Sent you a pm sieg as well
The problem is you're getting advice from different levels of AP's, Value players and perhaps even ploppys.
Different things are more or less valuable to different people. If you're not playing good stuff the cost is almost always significantly more than the value.
For instance they may give extra discounts, automatic limited free rooms, free show tickets. IMO that's not worthwhile chasing but to some people think it's great. You can justify just about anything by putting value on entertainment ,especially if believe a $300 dinner, a $300 room, show tickets, line skipping or whatever is worth face value .
They may give a higher % on points , extra drawings tickets or extra jackpot awards. During Plaza's double Royals promotion the Ace card gave you all of that above and more. You needed the Ace card to get double so that left many AP's out. Having a higher level card was worthwhile chasing in that situation.
Just don't be fooled by higher card levels because Your FP and comp offers are generally based on your play not your card level.
Virtually all comp decisions are made using the formula (which varies slightly from property to property) whose basic components are average bet per hand and hours played. Those two, multiplied together, times the "hands per hour" estimate the casino uses (usually 60) equals your total action. The casino usually determines their expected profit from you via a formula, 1% of your total action in some casinos, 3/4% in others).
The casino is then willing to provide you comps up to a certain percentage of their expected profit - usually around 40%.
To take an example, if you have an average bet of $500 per hand, and play for 20 hours total, then (using 60 hands per hour and 1% expected casino profit) your total action is $500 x 20 x 60 = $600,000. The casino's expected profit is $6,000. They will comp you up to around $2,400 ($6,000 x 40%)
This formula is explicitly taken into account in "end of your stay" comps where your host figures out your 40% number and writes off room charges (room, food, beverage, shows, spa services - essentially anything you can consume, explicitly not including retail or tips) up to that amount. Unless you are a player with whom the host has a lot of experience, very little (i.e., room or sometimes room and some food and beverage credit) will be guaranteed up front - it's all based on the 40% figure.
It's also taken into account, although less obviously, if you did not contact your host directly to arrange a room, but rather are responding to a solicitation or offer. Even though there is no stated quid pro quo, there is one. If your play does not produce a 40% figure equal to or higher than the "comp" value of what you got, and you repeat this a time or two, you'll stop getting these "unrestricted" offers.
Either way, whether done explicitly by your host, or in evaluating your play in response to an offer, the casino keeps a running % of expected profit total covering all your bets and comps.
Keep in mind that your host usually has discretion to comp you above the 40% mark, but only on the assumption that over time you will end up in the 40% range. If your comps are working out to 50% of expected profits or more, you can expect your comps to go down until things are back in the 40% range.
My host has described this process specifically to me and has given me my % number on occasion, either to caution me that I'm getting too high, or to confirm that I'm right where I need to be.
On the subject of whether all decisions are based on the 40% number or whether actual losses or wins can offset, my experience is that it's all based on the 40% number. I assume that if you have an unusually large loss (large relative to the casino, not you) you might get some comp or rebate based on the loss, but unless the loss occurred over just a few hands, the 40% formula will peg you with the correct comps. (To illustrate this, compare a player betting $500 per hand over 10 hours which, as I described above, produces $2,400 in comps, who loses a total of $30,000, with a player who bets the $10,000 max in three hands and loses all three in three minutes. The first player's total action is $600,000, comps = $2,400. The second player's total action is $30,000 ($10,000 per hand average bet x hour (in this case 3 minutes or 1/20 x 60 hands per hour = $30,000) and his comp is set at $120 (Expected profit of 1% of $30,000 = $300. 40% of that is $120).
I have had one year of close to $100 k total wins at mLife and one year of losses of about $50k and my comps have been the same both years.
Hope this was useful.
Quote: YippeeTiyiJoining this thread late, I may have some insight. From talking with my host (at one of the "top tier" casinos):
Virtually all comp decisions are made using the formula (which varies slightly from property to property) whose basic components are average bet per hand and hours played. Those two, multiplied together, times the "hands per hour" estimate the casino uses (usually 60) equals your total action. The casino usually determines their expected profit from you via a formula, 1% of your total action in some casinos, 3/4% in others).
The casino is then willing to provide you comps up to a certain percentage of their expected profit - usually around 40%.
To take an example, if you have an average bet of $500 per hand, and play for 20 hours total, then (using 60 hands per hour and 1% expected casino profit) your total action is $500 x 20 x 60 = $600,000. The casino's expected profit is $6,000. They will comp you up to around $2,400 ($6,000 x 40%)
This formula is explicitly taken into account in "end of your stay" comps where your host figures out your 40% number and writes off room charges (room, food, beverage, shows, spa services - essentially anything you can consume, explicitly not including retail or tips) up to that amount. Unless you are a player with whom the host has a lot of experience, very little (i.e., room or sometimes room and some food and beverage credit) will be guaranteed up front - it's all based on the 40% figure.
It's also taken into account, although less obviously, if you did not contact your host directly to arrange a room, but rather are responding to a solicitation or offer. Even though there is no stated quid pro quo, there is one. If your play does not produce a 40% figure equal to or higher than the "comp" value of what you got, and you repeat this a time or two, you'll stop getting these "unrestricted" offers.
Either way, whether done explicitly by your host, or in evaluating your play in response to an offer, the casino keeps a running % of expected profit total covering all your bets and comps.
Keep in mind that your host usually has discretion to comp you above the 40% mark, but only on the assumption that over time you will end up in the 40% range. If your comps are working out to 50% of expected profits or more, you can expect your comps to go down until things are back in the 40% range.
My host has described this process specifically to me and has given me my % number on occasion, either to caution me that I'm getting too high, or to confirm that I'm right where I need to be.
On the subject of whether all decisions are based on the 40% number or whether actual losses or wins can offset, my experience is that it's all based on the 40% number. I assume that if you have an unusually large loss (large relative to the casino, not you) you might get some comp or rebate based on the loss, but unless the loss occurred over just a few hands, the 40% formula will peg you with the correct comps. (To illustrate this, compare a player betting $500 per hand over 10 hours which, as I described above, produces $2,400 in comps, who loses a total of $30,000, with a player who bets the $10,000 max in three hands and loses all three in three minutes. The first player's total action is $600,000, comps = $2,400. The second player's total action is $30,000 ($10,000 per hand average bet x hour (in this case 3 minutes or 1/20 x 60 hands per hour = $30,000) and his comp is set at $120 (Expected profit of 1% of $30,000 = $300. 40% of that is $120).
I have had one year of close to $100 k total wins at mLife and one year of losses of about $50k and my comps have been the same both years.
Hope this was useful.
Very useful, Yip. Welcome to the forum, and thanks very much for sharing this info.
Quote: AxelWolfJust don't be fooled by higher card levels because Your FP and comp offers are generally based on your play not your card level.
But, the more you play, the higher your card level...
http://i.imgur.com/e2IATln.jpg
Quote: aceofspadesBut, the more you play, the higher your card level...
True, but it's almost written into the card levels that you get paid for loyalty and total cash-in over a period of time. So those comps (% discounts, line cuts, guaranteed rooms, free valet, resort fees comped, special invitations and parties, as examples) are really separate from your per-visit pay. You're kind of comped twice, mostly without duplication.
The most extreme example I can think of (though Yip's is a good one) is the Diamond lounge program at CET. There is a whole group of locals per property who make the minimum Diamond points one year, then keep it by grinding through small plays and bonus tier credits several times a week, then go for free drinks and hors d'oeuvres / dinner for hours in the lounge. The casino is likely losing money on them or breaking even, considering both the DL times and the other card perks.
Contrast that with the person who comes in a couple long, high-rolling weekends a year, playing big money, sort of your stereotypical high-tier card customer. Over a year, maybe they about match on earning tier credits, but the high roller is only using up 6 days/nights worth of comps, where the others are maybe using up 200 or more days worth.
So, who's going to get the better offers and the better review? I think it's going to be that second guy.
Quote: beachbumbabsTrue, but it's almost written into the card levels that you get paid for loyalty and total cash-in over a period of time. So those comps (% discounts, line cuts, guaranteed rooms, free valet, resort fees comped, special invitations and parties, as examples) are really separate from your per-visit pay. You're kind of comped twice, mostly without duplication.
The most extreme example I can think of (though Yip's is a good one) is the Diamond lounge program at CET. There is a whole group of locals per property who make the minimum Diamond points one year, then keep it by grinding through small plays and bonus tier credits several times a week, then go for free drinks and hors d'oeuvres / dinner for hours in the lounge. The casino is likely losing money on them or breaking even, considering both the DL times and the other card perks.
Contrast that with the person who comes in a couple long, high-rolling weekends a year, playing big money, sort of your stereotypical high-tier card customer. Over a year, maybe they about match on earning tier credits, but the high roller is only using up 6 days/nights worth of comps, where the others are maybe using up 200 or more days worth.
So, who's going to get the better offers and the better review? I think it's going to be that second guy.
that second guy is me and I am not getting the comps
