JohnnyQ
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December 14th, 2021 at 4:19:49 PM permalink
Theoretically, MORE COMPETITION on the Strip should be good for the Gambler, right ?
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
kewlj
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December 15th, 2021 at 12:58:36 AM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

Theoretically, MORE COMPETITION on the Strip should be good for the Gambler, right ?


Theoretically yes. I believe the break up of the two dominate strip casino companies is a good thing and good for players. But at the same time, I have never been all that comfortable with Indian run casinos. For the most part that was Indian casinos on Indian land that are allowed to play by their own rules and have their own police etc.

It seems like all of the sudden Indian Casinos are being shoved down our throats here in Vegas. First in was Mohegan Sun running the Virgins casinos (former Hard Rock). Palms has been sold to an Indian Casino. I believe Bally's sale is pending or rumored to an Indian Casino and now Mirage. I assume these places have to play by Nevada rules since they are not on Indian land.

Maybe it will be a good thing. I hope it will be a good thing. But it just feels like it is being shoved down our throats at the moment.
AlanMendelson
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December 15th, 2021 at 1:33:01 AM permalink
Yes, they have to play by Nevada rules but that doesnt mean they have to give you a good play.

They dont have to give you full pay video poker.
They can pay 2x on 12 in the field at craps.
They can have 6/5 blackjack.
And so forth.
PokerGrinder
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December 15th, 2021 at 1:54:20 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Quote: JohnnyQ

Theoretically, MORE COMPETITION on the Strip should be good for the Gambler, right ?


Theoretically yes. I believe the break up of the two dominate strip casino companies is a good thing and good for players. But at the same time, I have never been all that comfortable with Indian run casinos. For the most part that was Indian casinos on Indian land that are allowed to play by their own rules and have their own police etc.

It seems like all of the sudden Indian Casinos are being shoved down our throats here in Vegas. First in was Mohegan Sun running the Virgins casinos (former Hard Rock). Palms has been sold to an Indian Casino. I believe Bally's sale is pending or rumored to an Indian Casino and now Mirage. I assume these places have to play by Nevada rules since they are not on Indian land.

Maybe it will be a good thing. I hope it will be a good thing. But it just feels like it is being shoved down our throats at the moment.
link to original post



I highly doubt that Ballys is available for two reasons. First the WSOP will be held there for the foreseeable future and second I think it would be a logistical nightmare to sell one of Ballys and Paris as they share a retail connection strip (not sure what else to call it) and also share a parking garage.
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston
kewlj
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December 15th, 2021 at 1:58:47 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Yes, they have to play by Nevada rules but that doesnt mean they have to give you a good play.

They dont have to give you full pay video poker.
They can pay 2x on 12 in the field at craps.
They can have 6/5 blackjack.
And so forth.



I was specifically thinking more in terms of back-roomings, and illegal detentions. For card counters these things have for the most part become a thing of the past in Las Vegas, thanks in large part to Mr. Nersesian.

But at Indian Casinos on Indian Land, they still occur regularly along with confiscating of chips. A player might eventually get the chips back but he has to hire a lawyer and sometimes have a hearing before a tribal court and nonsense like that. That is what I mean by play by Nevada rules and laws.

When an Oklahoma Tribe bought Sands in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and turned it into Windcreek Casino according to an article in the newspaper, the land that the casinos (and attached shopping mall) sits on, which was a former steel mill, became Indian Land, technically a small Indian reservation. I am not sure how that happened because I thought it took some sort of act of Federal Government to create an Indian Reservation.

Anyway, I just want to be sure we don't have these new mini Indian reservations popping up on the strip where Mirage and Bally's sit and just off strip at Palms. lol
AlanMendelson
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December 15th, 2021 at 2:11:21 AM permalink
Quote: PokerGrinder

Quote: kewlj

Quote: JohnnyQ

Theoretically, MORE COMPETITION on the Strip should be good for the Gambler, right ?


Theoretically yes. I believe the break up of the two dominate strip casino companies is a good thing and good for players. But at the same time, I have never been all that comfortable with Indian run casinos. For the most part that was Indian casinos on Indian land that are allowed to play by their own rules and have their own police etc.

It seems like all of the sudden Indian Casinos are being shoved down our throats here in Vegas. First in was Mohegan Sun running the Virgins casinos (former Hard Rock). Palms has been sold to an Indian Casino. I believe Bally's sale is pending or rumored to an Indian Casino and now Mirage. I assume these places have to play by Nevada rules since they are not on Indian land.

Maybe it will be a good thing. I hope it will be a good thing. But it just feels like it is being shoved down our throats at the moment.
link to original post



I highly doubt that Ballys is available for two reasons. First the WSOP will be held there for the foreseeable future and second I think it would be a logistical nightmare to sell one of Ballys and Paris as they share a retail connection strip (not sure what else to call it) and also share a parking garage.
link to original post



They also share management. The two hotels and casinos are one corporate unit.
AlanMendelson
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December 15th, 2021 at 2:14:53 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Quote: AlanMendelson

Yes, they have to play by Nevada rules but that doesnt mean they have to give you a good play.

They dont have to give you full pay video poker.
They can pay 2x on 12 in the field at craps.
They can have 6/5 blackjack.
And so forth.



I was specifically thinking more in terms of back-roomings, and illegal detentions. For card counters these things have for the most part become a thing of the past in Las Vegas, thanks in large part to Mr. Nersesian.

But at Indian Casinos on Indian Land, they still occur regularly along with confiscating of chips. A player might eventually get the chips back but he has to hire a lawyer and sometimes have a hearing before a tribal court and nonsense like that. That is what I mean by play by Nevada rules and laws.

When an Oklahoma Tribe bought Sands in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and turned it into Windcreek Casino according to an article in the newspaper, the land that the casinos (and attached shopping mall) sits on, which was a former steel mill, became Indian Land, technically a small Indian reservation. I am not sure how that happened because I thought it took some sort of act of Federal Government to create an Indian Reservation.

Anyway, I just want to be sure we don't have these new mini Indian reservations popping up on the strip where Mirage and Bally's sit and just off strip at Palms. lol
link to original post



When the tribes buy non reservation businesses they can't make up their own rules.

The tribe buying the Palms has an office building in Washington DC. No reservation rules there.
Dieter
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December 15th, 2021 at 2:32:43 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

When an Oklahoma Tribe bought Sands in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and turned it into Windcreek Casino according to an article in the newspaper, the land that the casinos (and attached shopping mall) sits on, which was a former steel mill, became Indian Land, technically a small Indian reservation. I am not sure how that happened because I thought it took some sort of act of Federal Government to create an Indian Reservation.

Anyway, I just want to be sure we don't have these new mini Indian reservations popping up on the strip where Mirage and Bally's sit and just off strip at Palms. lol
link to original post



1. I think it's an Alabama tribe (Poarch Creek).
2. I don't think it's "Indian land" in the way you're thinking; yes, that requires some action from (I believe) the department of the interior. (The land is still part of the city, not a "reservation" as far as I can tell.)

I'm paying some attention to some other projects right now, and there seems to be a lengthy process to do the conversion. Buy the land, transfer the management to the department.of the interior, get a tribal-state compact established or revised to allow gaming at the site (likely with special revenue concessions to the county and municipality). One of the projects I'm watching has been in process for a decade; they were hoping to have phase 1 of the project built and collecting money early this year, but now hope to break ground sometime late next year (it's still an oddly shaped corn field on a prime location next to the sewage treatment plant. Didn't even have a "Casino goes here!" billboard up when I drove by yesterday.).

I think there will be plenty of other objectors to a tribe establishing a gaming compact and cutting out NGC oversight.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AlanMendelson
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December 15th, 2021 at 2:50:02 AM permalink
Dieter is correct that there is a complicated way for a tribe to buy non tribal land and then create a reservation on it. It is very difficult to accomplish.

I doubt it would even be considered in Vegas.

The tribes coming here are buying investments.
kewlj
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December 15th, 2021 at 2:55:15 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Dieter is correct that there is a complicated way for a tribe to buy non tribal land and then create a reservation on it. It is very difficult to accomplish.

I doubt it would even be considered in Vegas.

The tribes coming here are buying investments.



I think you are correct. I am just saying, it is something I want to be sure about before I even look into playing such a property. I like to know exactly what I am dealing with, what rules and laws I am playing with and what my remedies are. And that is the reason I have never embraced Indian Casinos elsewhere.
AlanMendelson
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December 15th, 2021 at 3:43:07 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Quote: AlanMendelson

Dieter is correct that there is a complicated way for a tribe to buy non tribal land and then create a reservation on it. It is very difficult to accomplish.

I doubt it would even be considered in Vegas.

The tribes coming here are buying investments.



I think you are correct. I am just saying, it is something I want to be sure about before I even look into playing such a property. I like to know exactly what I am dealing with, what rules and laws I am playing with and what my remedies are. And that is the reason I have never embraced Indian Casinos elsewhere.
link to original post



I have a very simple solution. Call the Las Vegas office of the NGC enforcement division. The number is on their website. They answer the phone 24/7. Ask them.

Yes. You can call from a payphone so you won't be traced.
AZDuffman
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December 15th, 2021 at 3:53:27 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj



When an Oklahoma Tribe bought Sands in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and turned it into Windcreek Casino according to an article in the newspaper, the land that the casinos (and attached shopping mall) sits on, which was a former steel mill, became Indian Land, technically a small Indian reservation. I am not sure how that happened because I thought it took some sort of act of Federal Government to create an Indian Reservation.



That is interesting if true as PA is one of the only states that all of the area was given by the Indians via treaty and very clean due to the beliefs of the Qyaker founders to fair play. I cannot see why PA would give that up when there was already a casino on the land.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
100xOdds
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December 15th, 2021 at 6:43:02 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Quote: JohnnyQ

Theoretically, MORE COMPETITION on the Strip should be good for the Gambler, right ?


It seems like all of the sudden Indian Casinos are being shoved down our throats here in Vegas. First in was Mohegan Sun running the Virgins casinos (former Hard Rock). Palms has been sold to an Indian Casino. I believe Bally's sale is pending or rumored to an Indian Casino and now Mirage. I assume these places have to play by Nevada rules since they are not on Indian land.

Maybe it will be a good thing. I hope it will be a good thing. But it just feels like it is being shoved down our throats at the moment.
link to original post

i thought caesars was selling planet hollywood?
if you sell ballys, you break up caesars row from Paris to Linq.

And the Mirage will be a Hard Rock?
Why did the old vegas Hard Rock sell recently to Virgin then?!
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
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December 15th, 2021 at 7:08:48 AM permalink
Quote: rsactuary

https://thepointsguy.com/news/mgm-selling-the-mirage-resort-casino-las-vegas/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebook&utm_term=Editorial&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=5144617C-5D14-11EC-9F29-8B1C3A982C1E&fbclid=IwAR00vV6FKTffLfqYi-oPPvs06hiTgFOWltgKwMt-OKKU3ng3PuRHDOQGtFI
link to original post

Why is MGM selling the fabled Mirage?
it's iconic.
i would have figured they would sell one of their less properties first.

Also, Hard Rock is paying $1B just for the building?!
it's a 30yr old building that costs $1.5B to build in 1989.
(They still have to pay rent to the land owner, VICI Properties)
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
AlanMendelson
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December 15th, 2021 at 7:36:04 AM permalink
Dont confuse the Hard Rock company owned by the Seminole tribe in Florida with the various companies including restaurants and a few casinos which License the Hard Rock Brand.

The old Hard Rock casino in Vegas was a licensed name.
DJTeddyBear
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December 15th, 2021 at 7:52:38 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

And the Mirage will be a Hard Rock?
Why did the old vegas Hard Rock sell recently to Virgin then?!
link to original post

Keep in mind that the former LV Hard Rock was owned / operated by a completely different company.

In 2006, every Hard Rock Cafe, hotel, casino, concert venue, etc - with the single exception of the LV HR hotel / casino - was sold to the Florida Seminoles.

Adding to the confusion, the adjoining HR Cafe was owned & operated by HR International - ie, the Seminoles.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
AlanMendelson
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December 15th, 2021 at 8:22:53 AM permalink
There are still a couple of Hard Rock casinos in the midwest that license the name.
billryan
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December 15th, 2021 at 8:38:36 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Yes, they have to play by Nevada rules but that doesnt mean they have to give you a good play.

They dont have to give you full pay video poker.
They can pay 2x on 12 in the field at craps.
They can have 6/5 blackjack.
And so forth.
link to original post




Sounds like every other major casino company in Nevada.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AxelWolf
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December 15th, 2021 at 8:42:58 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Quote: AlanMendelson



I was specifically thinking more in terms of back-roomings, and illegal detentions. For card counters these things have for the most part become a thing of the past in Las Vegas, thanks in large part to Mr. Nersesian.

And the people who received unjust treatment by the casinos and helped lead the fight.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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December 15th, 2021 at 8:50:30 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Quote: AlanMendelson

Yes, they have to play by Nevada rules but that doesnt mean they have to give you a good play.

They dont have to give you full pay video poker.
They can pay 2x on 12 in the field at craps.
They can have 6/5 blackjack.
And so forth.



I was specifically thinking more in terms of back-roomings, and illegal detentions. For card counters these things have for the most part become a thing of the past in Las Vegas, thanks in large part to Mr. Nersesian.

But at Indian Casinos on Indian Land, they still occur regularly along with confiscating of chips. A player might eventually get the chips back but he has to hire a lawyer and sometimes have a hearing before a tribal court and nonsense like that. That is what I mean by play by Nevada rules and laws.

When an Oklahoma Tribe bought Sands in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and turned it into Windcreek Casino according to an article in the newspaper, the land that the casinos (and attached shopping mall) sits on, which was a former steel mill, became Indian Land, technically a small Indian reservation. I am not sure how that happened because I thought it took some sort of act of Federal Government to create an Indian Reservation.

Anyway, I just want to be sure we don't have these new mini Indian reservations popping up on the strip where Mirage and Bally's sit and just off strip at Palms. lol
link to original post

Tribal casinos that end up owning Nevada casinos may be more likely to play by the book. I have noticed this in places already.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
mcallister3200
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December 15th, 2021 at 9:01:20 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: rsactuary

https://thepointsguy.com/news/mgm-selling-the-mirage-resort-casino-las-vegas/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebook&utm_term=Editorial&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=5144617C-5D14-11EC-9F29-8B1C3A982C1E&fbclid=IwAR00vV6FKTffLfqYi-oPPvs06hiTgFOWltgKwMt-OKKU3ng3PuRHDOQGtFI
link to original post

Why is MGM selling the fabled Mirage?
it's iconic.
i would have figured they would sell one of their less properties first.

Also, Hard Rock is paying $1B just for the building?!
it's a 30yr old building that costs $1.5B to build in 1989.
(They still have to pay rent to the land owner, VICI Properties)
link to original post



It IS one of their lesser properties now, they’ve been letting it deteriorate for at least a decade. The Rio is iconic too, and at one time the Luxor was all that and a bag of chips.
kewlj
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December 15th, 2021 at 11:04:21 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Tribal casinos that end up owning Nevada casinos may be more likely to play by the book. I have noticed this in places already.
link to original post



My concerns will likely be unfounded. But still, doesn't it just seem like Indian Casinos are all of the sudden being shoved down our throats here in Vegas of all places.
MrV
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December 15th, 2021 at 12:13:30 PM permalink
Who can blame them for wanting to go to Las Vegas, America's gambling mecca, to scalp the white eyes?

Payback's a bitch.

"You gave us small pox, we give you a gambling addiction."
"What, me worry?"
ThatDonGuy
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December 15th, 2021 at 12:21:51 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

"You gave us small pox, we give you a gambling addiction."


"Casino? We just want it for the rights to LOVE"
heatmap
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December 15th, 2021 at 7:58:07 PM permalink
I can assure everyone that the back office of wind creek Bethlehem is run by the same Gaming control board people. Only difference is they aren’t mafia any more. They tried to throw me out for an indefinite amount of time. Not for card counting but asking crazy questions. I convinced the security guard who was going to ban me that I was their on my own will and I wasn’t back roomed per se. if I had been taken to the back room by security I would have been banned and I can’t have that happen I need to buy my gf coach purses every year
AZDuffman
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heatmap
December 16th, 2021 at 4:04:31 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

I need to buy my gf coach purses every year
link to original post



Or to go to the restaurant that happens to be attached to the casino to get one of those sandwiches I like,,,,,,,,,
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
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