The Mirage to become a Hard Rock

Theoretically, MORE COMPETITION on the Strip should be good for the Gambler, right ?

Quote: JohnnyQ

Theoretically, MORE COMPETITION on the Strip should be good for the Gambler, right ?

Theoretically yes. I believe the break up of the two dominate strip casino companies is a good thing and good for players. But at the same time, I have never been all that comfortable with Indian run casinos. For the most part that was Indian casinos on Indian land that are allowed to play by their own rules and have their own police etc.

It seems like all of the sudden Indian Casinos are being shoved down our throats here in Vegas. First in was Mohegan Sun running the Virgins casinos (former Hard Rock). Palms has been sold to an Indian Casino. I believe Bally's sale is pending or rumored to an Indian Casino and now Mirage. I assume these places have to play by Nevada rules since they are not on Indian land.

Maybe it will be a good thing. I hope it will be a good thing. But it just feels like it is being shoved down our throats at the moment.

Yes, they have to play by Nevada rules but that doesnt mean they have to give you a good play.

They dont have to give you full pay video poker.
They can pay 2x on 12 in the field at craps.
They can have 6/5 blackjack.
And so forth.

Quote: kewlj

Quote: JohnnyQ

Theoretically, MORE COMPETITION on the Strip should be good for the Gambler, right ?

Theoretically yes. I believe the break up of the two dominate strip casino companies is a good thing and good for players. But at the same time, I have never been all that comfortable with Indian run casinos. For the most part that was Indian casinos on Indian land that are allowed to play by their own rules and have their own police etc.

It seems like all of the sudden Indian Casinos are being shoved down our throats here in Vegas. First in was Mohegan Sun running the Virgins casinos (former Hard Rock). Palms has been sold to an Indian Casino. I believe Bally's sale is pending or rumored to an Indian Casino and now Mirage. I assume these places have to play by Nevada rules since they are not on Indian land.

Maybe it will be a good thing. I hope it will be a good thing. But it just feels like it is being shoved down our throats at the moment.
link to original post

I highly doubt that Ballys is available for two reasons. First the WSOP will be held there for the foreseeable future and second I think it would be a logistical nightmare to sell one of Ballys and Paris as they share a retail connection strip (not sure what else to call it) and also share a parking garage.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Yes, they have to play by Nevada rules but that doesnt mean they have to give you a good play.

They dont have to give you full pay video poker.
They can pay 2x on 12 in the field at craps.
They can have 6/5 blackjack.
And so forth.

I was specifically thinking more in terms of back-roomings, and illegal detentions. For card counters these things have for the most part become a thing of the past in Las Vegas, thanks in large part to Mr. Nersesian.

But at Indian Casinos on Indian Land, they still occur regularly along with confiscating of chips. A player might eventually get the chips back but he has to hire a lawyer and sometimes have a hearing before a tribal court and nonsense like that. That is what I mean by play by Nevada rules and laws.

When an Oklahoma Tribe bought Sands in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and turned it into Windcreek Casino according to an article in the newspaper, the land that the casinos (and attached shopping mall) sits on, which was a former steel mill, became Indian Land, technically a small Indian reservation. I am not sure how that happened because I thought it took some sort of act of Federal Government to create an Indian Reservation.

Anyway, I just want to be sure we don't have these new mini Indian reservations popping up on the strip where Mirage and Bally's sit and just off strip at Palms. lol

Quote: PokerGrinder

Quote: kewlj

Quote: JohnnyQ

Theoretically, MORE COMPETITION on the Strip should be good for the Gambler, right ?

Theoretically yes. I believe the break up of the two dominate strip casino companies is a good thing and good for players. But at the same time, I have never been all that comfortable with Indian run casinos. For the most part that was Indian casinos on Indian land that are allowed to play by their own rules and have their own police etc.

It seems like all of the sudden Indian Casinos are being shoved down our throats here in Vegas. First in was Mohegan Sun running the Virgins casinos (former Hard Rock). Palms has been sold to an Indian Casino. I believe Bally's sale is pending or rumored to an Indian Casino and now Mirage. I assume these places have to play by Nevada rules since they are not on Indian land.

Maybe it will be a good thing. I hope it will be a good thing. But it just feels like it is being shoved down our throats at the moment.
link to original post

I highly doubt that Ballys is available for two reasons. First the WSOP will be held there for the foreseeable future and second I think it would be a logistical nightmare to sell one of Ballys and Paris as they share a retail connection strip (not sure what else to call it) and also share a parking garage.
link to original post

They also share management. The two hotels and casinos are one corporate unit.

Quote: kewlj

Quote: AlanMendelson

Yes, they have to play by Nevada rules but that doesnt mean they have to give you a good play.

They dont have to give you full pay video poker.
They can pay 2x on 12 in the field at craps.
They can have 6/5 blackjack.
And so forth.

I was specifically thinking more in terms of back-roomings, and illegal detentions. For card counters these things have for the most part become a thing of the past in Las Vegas, thanks in large part to Mr. Nersesian.

But at Indian Casinos on Indian Land, they still occur regularly along with confiscating of chips. A player might eventually get the chips back but he has to hire a lawyer and sometimes have a hearing before a tribal court and nonsense like that. That is what I mean by play by Nevada rules and laws.

When an Oklahoma Tribe bought Sands in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and turned it into Windcreek Casino according to an article in the newspaper, the land that the casinos (and attached shopping mall) sits on, which was a former steel mill, became Indian Land, technically a small Indian reservation. I am not sure how that happened because I thought it took some sort of act of Federal Government to create an Indian Reservation.

Anyway, I just want to be sure we don't have these new mini Indian reservations popping up on the strip where Mirage and Bally's sit and just off strip at Palms. lol
link to original post

When the tribes buy non reservation businesses they can't make up their own rules.

The tribe buying the Palms has an office building in Washington DC. No reservation rules there.

Quote: kewlj

When an Oklahoma Tribe bought Sands in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and turned it into Windcreek Casino according to an article in the newspaper, the land that the casinos (and attached shopping mall) sits on, which was a former steel mill, became Indian Land, technically a small Indian reservation. I am not sure how that happened because I thought it took some sort of act of Federal Government to create an Indian Reservation.

Anyway, I just want to be sure we don't have these new mini Indian reservations popping up on the strip where Mirage and Bally's sit and just off strip at Palms. lol
link to original post

1. I think it's an Alabama tribe (Poarch Creek).
2. I don't think it's "Indian land" in the way you're thinking; yes, that requires some action from (I believe) the department of the interior. (The land is still part of the city, not a "reservation" as far as I can tell.)

I'm paying some attention to some other projects right now, and there seems to be a lengthy process to do the conversion. Buy the land, transfer the management to the department.of the interior, get a tribal-state compact established or revised to allow gaming at the site (likely with special revenue concessions to the county and municipality). One of the projects I'm watching has been in process for a decade; they were hoping to have phase 1 of the project built and collecting money early this year, but now hope to break ground sometime late next year (it's still an oddly shaped corn field on a prime location next to the sewage treatment plant. Didn't even have a "Casino goes here!" billboard up when I drove by yesterday.).

I think there will be plenty of other objectors to a tribe establishing a gaming compact and cutting out NGC oversight.

Dieter is correct that there is a complicated way for a tribe to buy non tribal land and then create a reservation on it. It is very difficult to accomplish.

I doubt it would even be considered in Vegas.

The tribes coming here are buying investments.