rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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October 30th, 2010 at 8:33:57 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I live in the midwest and thats the word on Vegas from everybody I know who goes there, nobody is winning on the slots. People who have gone for years and came back winners sometimes, are never coming back winners now. I hear it over and over. Even my local casinos are losing business over tight slots. I know a lady in IN who went for years, at least twice a week and now she never goes because she never leaves a winner anymore.



Isn't slot hold % reported in states like NV and IN? It should be objectively provable that the hold percentages have increased, shouldn't it?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 30th, 2010 at 9:17:48 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Isn't slot hold % reported in states like NV and IN? It should be objectively provable that the hold percentages have increased, shouldn't it?



Somebody posted an article here a couple weeks ago that said its gone to over 7% in Vegas, which makes it almost impossible to win. The difference between 6% and 7% is tremendous.

Wait, that was ME that posted it, LOL. Its by a professor at UNLV, its in here somewhere.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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October 30th, 2010 at 9:51:14 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Somebody posted an article here a couple weeks ago that said its gone to over 7% in Vegas, which makes it almost impossible to win. The difference between 6% and 7% is tremendous.

Wait, that was ME that posted it, LOL. Its by a professor at UNLV, its in here somewhere.



I agree that 1% is a big difference. But compared to other jurisdictions, 93% or 94% payback is HUGE. I am not aware of any jurisdictions with better payback percentages. Iowa's casinos are required to post and report payback percentages, and their casinos are all around 90%. Indian casino compacts set floors at 75% or 80% with no reporting requirements.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
mkl654321
mkl654321
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October 30th, 2010 at 10:57:24 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

I agree that 1% is a big difference. But compared to other jurisdictions, 93% or 94% payback is HUGE. I am not aware of any jurisdictions with better payback percentages. Iowa's casinos are required to post and report payback percentages, and their casinos are all around 90%. Indian casino compacts set floors at 75% or 80% with no reporting requirements.



Well, one of the reasons that people come out to that Godforsaken blast-furnace ugly sinkhole in the desert, even if they had a nice shiny Injun casino just an hours' drive away, is that they felt they had better chance to win in Sinkhole, er, Vegas. If Vegas tightens up its gambling much more, it'll start losing Ma and Pa Fish, who will discover on their next, and final, trip there that they are getting raped just as thoroughly as they normally are at Big Heap of Wampum Casino and Bingo Resort, so why pay $299 each to fly to Sinkhole any more? The Vegas casinos don't seem to realize just how quickly their customer base can evaporate.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 30th, 2010 at 11:01:43 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

I agree that 1% is a big difference. But compared to other jurisdictions, 93% or 94% payback is HUGE.



Actually, its not. As I recall, the article says that at 95% you can play with $100 for about 4 hours. Where they have it set now, $100 lasts about 1 hour. Thats a huge and very real and noticable difference to the customer.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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October 31st, 2010 at 8:04:13 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Actually, its not. As I recall, the article says that at 95% you can play with $100 for about 4 hours. Where they have it set now, $100 lasts about 1 hour. Thats a huge and very real and noticable difference to the customer.



That's true. But there is nowhere in the USA where you can play at a 95% payback. So what's the point?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
mkl654321
mkl654321
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October 31st, 2010 at 10:01:58 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

That's true. But there is nowhere in the USA where you can play at a 95% payback. So what's the point?



Actually, the locals' casinos in Vegas report that level of return on dollar slots.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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October 31st, 2010 at 10:43:55 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Actually, the locals' casinos in Vegas report that level of return on dollar slots.



Maybe other places around the country are different but the last time I was in a few casinos in WI, 99% of the dollar slots were empty, and on weekends it was hard to get on the penny slots.

I just don't see the mom and pops going to vegas to play $1 machines. They are there for the penny/nickel slots.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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October 31st, 2010 at 10:58:10 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Actually, the locals' casinos in Vegas report that level of return on dollar slots.



Actually, the Boulder Strip and NLV return percentages for $1 machines are more like 97%. I was talking about the average over all denominations, though I could certainly have made that more clear. Even across all machines, the 2010 ACG lists a 94.96% return for the boulder strip casinos. Looks like I was wrong in either case...
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
pacomartin
pacomartin
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October 31st, 2010 at 12:28:32 PM permalink
There is a series of articles that I contributed to (at least a quote) under my blog. I think that the idea that slots have been tightened under the recession was largely a myth.

It is difficult to determine the setting since the stats only report win percentage and not the house average. As we have discussed many times before they are not identical, since if you play a machine for a long time you win percentage would be expected to grow.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/mar/16/slots-have-gotten-looser-not-average-gambler-can-t/ ' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'> Slots have gotten looser, not that the average gambler can tell 16-Mar-10 Liz Benston Las Vegas Sun


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If possible I would like opinions on this threat about MGM Resorts. I think that it is serious that a year after gaming revenue bottomed out on the Vegas strip, most of the MGM resorts are still dropping, both in total revenue and in EBITDA. The company still has not found it's bottom for the older resorts. On top of that there is the horrible mess that is ARIA and City Center.

I have said earlier that a breakup doesn't seem likely given the huge debt load. I think a buyout or a merger is the most likely solution (an idea which is generally greeted with ridicule).

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