New VP feature: Royal Replay
July 10th, 2011 at 2:16:03 PM
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Hi everyone:
I've developed a new video poker feature. It gives the player more royal flushes -- which they want -- it can be applied to any paytable, has no impact on player strategy, and can double the total win on the game. I designed it because, sadly, I have never hit a royal flush playing video poker (for money, anyway). This feature almost doubles the frequency of royals (and royals pay more too). There is a demo here:
Royal Replay demo
I would appreciate any feedback (both positive and negative).
For example, if you're a VP player, would you play it? Why/why not? If it's just a question of the EV, would you play it if the EV were higher but still negative, or only if it were positive?
If you work for a casino, would your slot players play it?
I'm trying to gauge interest from both real players and operators before plunging head-first into the process of either (a) developing it myself or (b) out-licensing to a manufacturer. Intellectual property is pending.
Thanks very much for any comments or questions.
I've developed a new video poker feature. It gives the player more royal flushes -- which they want -- it can be applied to any paytable, has no impact on player strategy, and can double the total win on the game. I designed it because, sadly, I have never hit a royal flush playing video poker (for money, anyway). This feature almost doubles the frequency of royals (and royals pay more too). There is a demo here:
Royal Replay demo
I would appreciate any feedback (both positive and negative).
For example, if you're a VP player, would you play it? Why/why not? If it's just a question of the EV, would you play it if the EV were higher but still negative, or only if it were positive?
If you work for a casino, would your slot players play it?
I'm trying to gauge interest from both real players and operators before plunging head-first into the process of either (a) developing it myself or (b) out-licensing to a manufacturer. Intellectual property is pending.
Thanks very much for any comments or questions.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 10th, 2011 at 2:38:44 PM
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Seems like fun. I think it might catch on. I think it would not need a positive EV for the great majority of players to play it. What is the EV on the paytable you presented? Good luck.
July 10th, 2011 at 2:45:16 PM
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I am not a VP player, but I do like your concept of gives the player more royal flushes.
I think it is a good VP game.
I think it is a good VP game.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
July 10th, 2011 at 3:10:23 PM
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removed
silly
silly
I Heart Vi Hart
July 10th, 2011 at 3:32:30 PM
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Thanks for the heads-up on the about page -- it was a broken link from a go-live last month. I thought I caught it all, but I guess not. Whoops. :)
The EV on the bonus paytable as-is is high at -15%. But the 5000 is meant to serve as the reset for a progressive jackpot with a very high accrual rate, perhaps even 10%. In other words, it would go up very fast relative to normal jackpot meters. But there are lots of alternatives. I could pay 8000 instead of 5000 and the bet would have a 2% edge. Or move some money down to the 4-to-a-royal pay, etc.
Thanks for the comments so far. Please keep them coming.
The EV on the bonus paytable as-is is high at -15%. But the 5000 is meant to serve as the reset for a progressive jackpot with a very high accrual rate, perhaps even 10%. In other words, it would go up very fast relative to normal jackpot meters. But there are lots of alternatives. I could pay 8000 instead of 5000 and the bet would have a 2% edge. Or move some money down to the 4-to-a-royal pay, etc.
Thanks for the comments so far. Please keep them coming.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 10th, 2011 at 4:06:01 PM
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It was interesting enough, but I don't generally like 6th coin bets. I'd not play it with a EV of -15%... if it was around the -2% mark I might play it. A super progressive jackpot on the 6th coin might also entice me, but I tend to be interested in the "more common" in quads.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
July 10th, 2011 at 6:09:35 PM
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Makes sense -- I wouldn't recommend at 15% side bet either (or attempt to sell one, really). The goal was to leave a lot of room for progressives. For example, I could add a 10% progressive on the royal, or a 5% progressive on both the royal (p = 1 in 23000) and 4-to-a-royal (p=1 in 226) such that the 30 coin award could creep up to 40-ish before it hit. It turns out that getting 4-in-a-royal if you're always drawing for it happens about twice as often as quads.
Or I could just change the paytable to something like 6000/50/6 which has about a 1.8% edge, hope the play rate stays mostly level, and be satisfied with a 20% increase in overall win. Hard to complain about that, really.
Or I could just change the paytable to something like 6000/50/6 which has about a 1.8% edge, hope the play rate stays mostly level, and be satisfied with a 20% increase in overall win. Hard to complain about that, really.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 10th, 2011 at 6:32:34 PM
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A VP player might play it if the EV is high enough. But I suspect that the typical slot player might not because having two essentially independent games at the same time might be confusing. For example, when I played, the dealt hand had two to the royal which I held and the extra hand held also. When the draw came, the major hand had drawn a third to the royal and the extra hand had paired up. My initial reaction was "why didn't I get paid". I then realized that the pair and the 3 to the royal were in the wrong hands. While I understood this immediately, I doubt that the slot player would and would feel ripped off.
matilda
matilda
July 10th, 2011 at 9:31:48 PM
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Small problem on the demo. If you hit play 1, it will. When you hit play 1 on the next hand, it will play 2, so on until Play 6 then back to 1. Since this demo is to demonstrate your game, why not just have max play button? That's what you intend to demonstrate, is it not ? Anything less than max is doing nothing to promote your idea, which definitely has potential. GOOD LUCK !!
July 10th, 2011 at 9:31:49 PM
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Small problem on the demo. If you hit play 1, it will. When you hit play 1 on the next hand, it will play 2, so on until Play 6 then back to 1. Since this demo is to demonstrate your game, why not just have max play button? That's what you intend to demonstrate, is it not ? Anything less than max is doing nothing to promote your idea, which definitely has potential. GOOD LUCK !!
July 10th, 2011 at 10:13:59 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffSmall problem on the demo. If you hit play 1, it will. When you hit play 1 on the next hand, it will play 2, so on until Play 6 then back to 1. Since this demo is to demonstrate your game, why not just have max play button? That's what you intend to demonstrate, is it not ? Anything less than max is doing nothing to promote your idea, which definitely has potential. GOOD LUCK !!
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I could have done a max-bet only game but that sort of changes the spirit of the underlying game. In a casino, I think it'd be optional -- just like every other VP extra credit wager.
To play the next hand at any given wager amount, just press "deal". I suppose I could change it so that Bet 1 always starts over at 1 between hands, but I didn't think that was a focus item.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 10th, 2011 at 11:15:23 PM
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Since you won't toot your own horn, I will.
Levis, Quebec) – May 10, 2011. DEQ Systems Corp. (TSXV: DEQ) (“DEQ” or the “Company”), a leading provider of table game bonusing, jackpot and loyalty solutions, announced today that Barona Resort & Casino, has installed nine more G3™ enabled Bad Beat Blackjack™ Progressives and is now operating a total of twenty G3 progressives on their blackjack tables.
Levis, Quebec) – May 10, 2011. DEQ Systems Corp. (TSXV: DEQ) (“DEQ” or the “Company”), a leading provider of table game bonusing, jackpot and loyalty solutions, announced today that Barona Resort & Casino, has installed nine more G3™ enabled Bad Beat Blackjack™ Progressives and is now operating a total of twenty G3 progressives on their blackjack tables.
July 11th, 2011 at 10:40:00 AM
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I like the concept of the game, but I wouldn't play it as it is, especially with a -15% EV. Every game I've seen with a 6th coin bet, such as Super Times Pay, marginally increases the overall return for the player. This is the same for Multi Strike - every additional level played gives a slightly higher overall return.
Also, if I were playing a $0.25 machine, I would be angry to win $1,250, but I would be thrilled to win $1199 (no W2-G form).
I like 4000/75/6. This would give a decent mid-range award that is better than the pay you would get from a full house on the first 5 coins. Although the 6th coin return would be 100.55%, the overall return would be 99.71%, which is good in almost any jurisdiction.
Also, if I were playing a $0.25 machine, I would be angry to win $1,250, but I would be thrilled to win $1199 (no W2-G form).
I like 4000/75/6. This would give a decent mid-range award that is better than the pay you would get from a full house on the first 5 coins. Although the 6th coin return would be 100.55%, the overall return would be 99.71%, which is good in almost any jurisdiction.
I heart Crystal Math.
July 11th, 2011 at 10:47:52 AM
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I was playing a $5 slot in Blackhawk on my 60th birthday. Hey it was my birthday. Anyway I got two symbols and a wild card,
and the machine started flashing 239 239 239 I knew I had not hit a big jackpot and thought it was an error code. Just my luck,
a minor hit and machine malfunctions. Hit button for slot tech and soon discovered 239 X 5 = $1195 for me and no W2. This was
at the ISLE. No idea if any other casinos do this ! By the way, reason Royal on Quarters pays 4000 to 1 is same reason, get away
from W2-G per the inventor.
and the machine started flashing 239 239 239 I knew I had not hit a big jackpot and thought it was an error code. Just my luck,
a minor hit and machine malfunctions. Hit button for slot tech and soon discovered 239 X 5 = $1195 for me and no W2. This was
at the ISLE. No idea if any other casinos do this ! By the way, reason Royal on Quarters pays 4000 to 1 is same reason, get away
from W2-G per the inventor.
July 11th, 2011 at 10:59:12 AM
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I think you've convinced me to change the demo -- instead of having the progressive-ready paytable, I'll put in a looser paytable and then just say it can be progressive ready by lowering the awards appropriately.
99.71% is a great number for players, but I'm not sure it's feasible given the business model of most casino vendors. When Triple Play came out, the casinos were forced to offer lower returns to make up for the fact that they were paying a $5/day (later $15/day) license fee to IGT. Has anyone ever seen a 9/6 JoB Triple Play game? So maybe I'll start with an 8/5 JoB game and put in a paytable that brings the total RTP to 98% - 98.5% or so. 4000/80/6 does this nicely. Obviously this is all adjustable anyway, but I do want the demo to be a good first impression.
Thanks for the feedback.
99.71% is a great number for players, but I'm not sure it's feasible given the business model of most casino vendors. When Triple Play came out, the casinos were forced to offer lower returns to make up for the fact that they were paying a $5/day (later $15/day) license fee to IGT. Has anyone ever seen a 9/6 JoB Triple Play game? So maybe I'll start with an 8/5 JoB game and put in a paytable that brings the total RTP to 98% - 98.5% or so. 4000/80/6 does this nicely. Obviously this is all adjustable anyway, but I do want the demo to be a good first impression.
Thanks for the feedback.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 11th, 2011 at 11:10:08 AM
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You definitely want to avoid that dreaded W2-G. My expectation for success of my game increased greatly when i figured out to give a $10,000 payout on a table game and still not have to withhold 28%. I am almost up to the " Why Not My Game " stage. LOL
July 11th, 2011 at 11:13:47 AM
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I agree that no casino would offer this for a full pay jacks or better game.
I heart Crystal Math.
July 11th, 2011 at 12:09:41 PM
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.....
July 11th, 2011 at 1:03:39 PM
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"Totally automatic. Barely slows down the game at all." I would remove that second sentence. Put in the don't ask don't tell category.
or modify it to say cards can be displayed at the same time as the regular hand if desired.
or modify it to say cards can be displayed at the same time as the regular hand if desired.
July 11th, 2011 at 1:40:28 PM
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Quote: buzzpaff"Totally automatic. Barely slows down the game at all." I would remove that second sentence. Put in the don't ask don't tell category.
or modify it to say cards can be displayed at the same time as the regular hand if desired.
I agree. The only way it slows the game is if it triggers a hand-pay, and that's worth the wait:-)
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
July 11th, 2011 at 10:16:35 PM
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FYI, I tweaked the demo to use an 8/5 JoB paytable and a 4000/75/6 bonus paytable for a total of 97.84% RTP.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 12th, 2011 at 3:18:38 PM
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ME:
I like the concept of playing a JorB paytable that only paid $ 500 for a RF,
but increased the 5 coin pay-out for FH/Fl/St by 3/2/1 coin. Everything else
would be unchanged ( except for the RF at 2000 coins ).
My winpoker puts that around 100.1 %.
So it could be + 100 % payback with perfect play.
Wddya think ?
I like the concept of playing a JorB paytable that only paid $ 500 for a RF,
but increased the 5 coin pay-out for FH/Fl/St by 3/2/1 coin. Everything else
would be unchanged ( except for the RF at 2000 coins ).
My winpoker puts that around 100.1 %.
So it could be + 100 % payback with perfect play.
Wddya think ?
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
July 12th, 2011 at 3:35:21 PM
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Quote: JohnnyQME:
I like the concept of playing a JorB paytable that only paid $ 500 for a RF,
but increased the 5 coin pay-out for FH/Fl/St by 3/2/1 coin. Everything else
would be unchanged ( except for the RF at 2000 coins ).
My winpoker puts that around 100.1 %.
So it could be + 100 % payback with perfect play.
Wddya think ?
1) That would lower the variance
2) I'm guessing it'd be easier to play.
There's several gotchas on drawing to the Royal and Straight Flush that I suspect shave a few more 10th of a percentage point of ideal play on a normal JoB even for those who have an idea of what they are doing.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
July 12th, 2011 at 3:52:00 PM
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Quote: JohnnyQME:
I like the concept of playing a JorB paytable that only paid $ 500 for a RF,
but increased the 5 coin pay-out for FH/Fl/St by 3/2/1 coin. Everything else
would be unchanged ( except for the RF at 2000 coins ).
My winpoker puts that around 100.1 %.
So it could be + 100 % payback with perfect play.
Wddya think ?
That's really a different game altogether, not JoB at all. There is a lot you can do with VP paytables by moving money around, but that wasn't the goal of my bonus bet. My goal was to increase coin-in without changing the player strategy. Modifying the JoB paytable does neither of those things.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 12th, 2011 at 5:19:40 PM
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Quote: MathExtremist...but that wasn't the goal of my bonus bet. My goal was to increase coin-in without changing the player strategy. Modifying the JoB paytable does neither of those things.
Yeah, I know. But as a player, I would be happy with a $ 500 pay-out on a RF with
5 coins in, knowing that I could play longer because the other more common pay-outs
for the FH / Fl / St pay a little higher.
Anyhows, just thought I would put that concept out there...
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
July 12th, 2011 at 5:36:24 PM
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Something like the Oregon games should fit the bill. Oregon games are limited by a $600 payout, and the Wiz just did a writeup on one of them:
Flush Fever
Flush Fever
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
