2 new Blackjack variants heading to Vegas this month
I will be heading to Vegas on Monday and will start training at Fitzgerald's on Tuesday 22nd - the other casinos I will be training at are Casino Royale, Planet Hollywood and Paris although I'm not sure of the exact dates yet. I'll be staying for at least a month in Vegas so hopefully I will be able to cover everything as well as have time to relax at some point :-)
Anyway, if anyone is interested in finding out how a field trial works or just wants to meet then please get in touch either on here or PM.
Quote: Switch...but 'Neverbust Blackjack' is quite new. I can post the rules of that game if anyone wants to see how it plays. ...
Yes, please post the rules of Neverbust Blackjack on this forum.
I looked at the Power Blackjack page on Wizard of Odds, and I'm sure it will be a lot of fun to play.
Quote: ChesterDogYes, please post the rules of Neverbust Blackjack on this forum.
I looked at the Power Blackjack page on Wizard of Odds, and I'm sure it will be a lot of fun to play.
Hi Chester,
'Neverbust Blackjack' is not going to suit players unless they are recreational, or new, players who may be intimidated by the regular blackjack strategy etc. There is no skill element so it's not going to appeal to everyone.
The main 'selling' point is that players are always in the game as they cannot 'bust'.
PLAYING THE GAME
To start with, players place a bet, as in the regular game, and the cards are dealt in the usual style, 2 to the player and 1 up and 1 down to the dealer.
If the player has 17 or more then they have to 'stand' ('soft 17' is a hit) otherwise the dealer will automatically deal the player a card/s until they reach 17 or more.
If the card takes the player over 21 then that card is discarded and the player will stay on the original total before the 'bust' card was dealt. For example, player has 14 so the dealer will deal a card - if it's a 2 then the player will have 16 and will be dealt another card. If the next card is a 9 then that card is discarded and the player stays on the pre-bust total of 16.
The dealer plays the same way so if the dealer has a 3 showing and turns over a Jack followed by drawing a Queen then the Queen is discarded and the dealer announces "13, pay 14 or more", so the player with 16, in the above example, will win.
If the dealer finishes with a total of 15 then all hands (except 'Blackjacks') will push regardless of whether the player's total is higher or lower than 15.
Player 'Blackjacks' will pay 6/5 (initially) although some casinos may pay 3/2 eventually.
I suppose the game could be viewed as a 'War' style game with a Blackjack twist to it.
I'm really not sure what the reaction will be like but it will be interesting to see. The game has been launched in 1 casino here in the UK and has had reasonable play to date (since Christmas).
Thanks for inquiring and I hope I've explained it well enough.
The Wiz prefers links rather than copy/paste of stuff from a website, to reduce the chance of getting sued for stealing content.Quote: SwitchI would include the game rules/instructions etc but I gather that you can only post information that is on the Internet? I have rack cards but they are in pdf, not on my website as yet.
Of course, if you wrote / own the content, and are reasonably sure that you won't sue the Wiz as a result of your own actions, then go ahead and post the content.
On a similar note, host that PDF somewhere, then provide a link here.
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Both games seem interesting. Good luck with them.
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This is probably a question for the Wiz.
On the page about Power BlackJack, the strategy card has D cells, as well as PD cells. I assumed that the D meant to double and keep the card no matter what. But the key says D means Regular Double or Power Double while PD means Power Double only. Um, what's the difference?
If I eventually get around to putting the rack card on the Internet then I'll post the link.
Regarding your question:-
You are only allowed to 'Power Double' on your first 2 cards only. So, for example, if you split 7,7 and received a 4 then you could perform a regular double on the 11 but not a 'Power Double'. So, if the dealer had a '5' then you would both 'Double' (in the above example) or 'Power Double', if you was dealt 7,4 as your first 2 cards.
Some situations are not regular doubles, for example 9 verses a dealer 8, but they are 'Power Doubles' (as they are more powerful than regular doubles). So, if you are dealt 7,2 verses a dealer 8 then you should 'Power Double' but if you split 7,7 and receive a 2 on your split, then you would not perform a regular double against a dealer 8.
Hope that makes sense :-)
Is a field trial an actual table on the casino floor or just a table in their casino for testing purposes?
Heading to Vegas mid March and power BJ seems at least like an interesting diversion for a little time.
Quote: soulhunt79Is a field trial an actual table on the casino floor or just a table in their casino for testing purposes?
A field trial is an actual gaming table on the casino floor where ordinary patrons can play with real chips.
There is usually a sign indicating that it's there temporarily under testing purposes, and that they may ask random people what they thougt of the game.
And the bean counters watch the game more closely than an ordinary game.
It took me reading your response several times, picking it apart, phrase by phrase, for me to understand what you and the Wiz were saying.
I *THINK* I understand it. If I'm right, this could all be cleared up by changing the key at the bottom of the Wiz' strategy card to read:
D - Power Double, or Double when Power Double is not allowed (like after a split)
PD - Power Double only - Hit when Power Double is not allowed (like after a split)
If that's right, then changing the strategy card to use a symbol of DH instead of PD would also be a big help.
Quote: Switch'Neverbust Blackjack' is not going to suit players unless they are recreational, or new, players who may be intimidated by the regular blackjack strategy etc. There is no skill element so it's not going to appeal to everyone.
The way I understand your rules, the player doesn't seem to have to make any decisions. All hits and stays are automatic. I saw no mention of splits or doubles, either. If that's so, then no basic strategy BJ players will be drawn to your game, but it may do well with people who can't understand BJ or who don't like making the efort t play.
Good luck on the field trial.
I keep thinking of the scene in CASINO, where Joe Pesci keeps getting a bad card on a hit, throws out the card, and tells the dealer to hit again, saying,
"No, not dat card...DAT card!!!"
Quote: soulhunt79Are you able to say which games are going to which casino?
Is a field trial an actual table on the casino floor or just a table in their casino for testing purposes?
Heading to Vegas mid March and power BJ seems at least like an interesting diversion for a little time.
'Power Blackjack' will be at Fitzgerald's and Planet Hollywood.
'Neverbust Blackjack' will be at Casino Royale and Paris.
Quote: WizardofEnglandwhich UK casino is the no bust blackjack in?
Currently is at the G Casino in Birmingham.
It's heading into G Casinos in the near future at:-
Aberdeen
Dundee
Manchester
Sheffield
Brighton
Are any of those close to you?
Quote: PaigowdanI like the power double.
I keep thinking of the scene in CASINO, where Joe Pesci keeps getting a bad card on a hit, throws out the card, and tells the dealer to hit again, saying,
"No, not dat card...DAT card!!!"
I love that scene :-)
In fact, that could be a novel addition to 'Power Blackjack'. If the player doesn't like the first card on a 'Power Double' then he can pick it up and try and flick it at the dealer. If he hits the dealer on the next table then he gets 2 extra double cards to choose from :-) lol
Quote: DJTeddyBearSwitch -
It took me reading your response several times, picking it apart, phrase by phrase, for me to understand what you and the Wiz were saying.
I *THINK* I understand it. If I'm right, this could all be cleared up by changing the key at the bottom of the Wiz' strategy card to read:
D - Power Double, or Double when Power Double is not allowed (like after a split)
PD - Power Double only - Hit when Power Double is not allowed (like after a split)
If that's right, then changing the strategy card to use a symbol of DH instead of PD would also be a big help.
I'll mention it to The Wizard. You could also have PDD which means 'Power Double' and 'Double' compared with just 'PD' which means only 'Power Double' if you can. Then there wouldn't be any with just D on the card.
So, FWIW, IMO you could have PDD & PD if it's not OTT :-) :-)
Quote: NareedThe way I understand your rules, the player doesn't seem to have to make any decisions. All hits and stays are automatic. I saw no mention of splits or doubles, either. If that's so, then no basic strategy BJ players will be drawn to your game, but it may do well with people who can't understand BJ or who don't like making the efort t play.
Good luck on the field trial.
Yes, there are purposely no 'splits' or 'doubles'. I'm really not sure what the reaction will be but you're right that it will likely appeal to recreational players and beginners.
There are players that like 'War' so I'm hoping that this would be at least one level higher in interest without adding any decision making to it.
Quote: SwitchYes, there are purposely no 'splits' or 'doubles'. I'm really not sure what the reaction will be but you're right that it will likely appeal to recreational players and beginners.
I still wish you luck, but it seems the game is too passive.
On the other hand, as I understand baccarat, players don't get to decide whether or not to draw cards. And that game's very popular.
Quote: SwitchCurrently is at the G Casino in Birmingham.
It's heading into G Casinos in the near future at:-
Manchester
Are any of those close to you?
I live and work in Manchester, at a casino owned by the same company, just not the G. Although I might have a word with a manager and see what details I can get about our sister club.
Quote: SwitchIt's Manchester, Bury Road ? if I remember correctly.
Bury New Road to be precise.
Quote: CroupierBury New Road to be precise.
Oh well, I got 66.7% right :-) :-)
I'll be there until around 3pm if anyone is passing.
Quote: SwitchCurrently is at the G Casino in Birmingham.
It's heading into G Casinos in the near future at:-
Aberdeen
Dundee
Manchester
Sheffield
Brighton
Are any of those close to you?
I am based in Suffolk, but go to brighton every other weekend, by daughter and mates are all there, and we play a LOT of poker there. Brighton had Baccarat for about a week before they took it away, not many people got it.
Although I haven't tried the Neverbust one, I have to say that for me personally I enjoyed playing the Power Blackjack at Fitzgerald's. My usual game is blackjack and I have to say that it's always exciting for me normally to get a hand where I am allowed to split or double (hey, I get my kicks where I can). But the fact that I am able to take those opportunities and have more fun with them is definitely appealing to me.
The only thing I am confused about, and maybe I have a bad memory, but the Wizard lists in the rules:
Blackjack pays 3 to 2.
and
The dealer stands on soft 17.
I am probably wrong but I had thought that blackjack paid 1:1 and that the dealer had to hit soft 17.
And in regards to the Neverbust, since the decisiouns do seem to be "automatic" and there being no doubling down or splitting allowed, and since I am a more experienced player, this would not seem to appeal to me as much. But it seems to be a good thing to put out games that appeal to different types of players.
I'd be interested in hearing updates as to how well the games are doing at the casinos and whether you're getting them into more places.
Thank you for your comments regarding 'Power Blackjack' and I have now received some mixed feedback from the field trials which have now finished.
Firstly, 'Power Blackjack' has had an excellent field trial at Fitzgeralds and the manager is looking at installing a 2nd table once the final approval is stamped in July. However, Paris Casino are still unsure about the game as it is not dropping as well as regular Blackjack or 'Blackjack Switch' which are either side of the game. They are continuing with the game at present but it's future is uncertain at that property.
'Neverbust Blackjack' was placed in the back pit at Casino Royale and has not dropped as well as some of the other games in the property. As a result the game is likely to be removed fairly soon now that the trial is over. However, at Planet Hollywood, the game is positioned in a high profile location and has actually outdropped it's single deck Blackjack predecessor in that same place.
So, 2 excellent feedbacks, 1 lukewarm feedback and 1 poor feedback will still provide a question regarding the overall success of these games both in Las Vegas and the US.
More will be learnt when the games receive final approval in July.
Quote: SwitchQuote: ChesterDogYes, please post the rules of Neverbust Blackjack on this forum.
I looked at the Power Blackjack page on Wizard of Odds, and I'm sure it will be a lot of fun to play.
Hi Chester,
'Neverbust Blackjack' is not going to suit players unless they are recreational, or new, players who may be intimidated by the regular blackjack strategy etc. There is no skill element so it's not going to appeal to everyone.
The main 'selling' point is that players are always in the game as they cannot 'bust'.
PLAYING THE GAME
To start with, players place a bet, as in the regular game, and the cards are dealt in the usual style, 2 to the player and 1 up and 1 down to the dealer.
If the player has 17 or more then they have to 'stand' ('soft 17' is a hit) otherwise the dealer will automatically deal the player a card/s until they reach 17 or more.
If the card takes the player over 21 then that card is discarded and the player will stay on the original total before the 'bust' card was dealt. For example, player has 14 so the dealer will deal a card - if it's a 2 then the player will have 16 and will be dealt another card. If the next card is a 9 then that card is discarded and the player stays on the pre-bust total of 16.
The dealer plays the same way so if the dealer has a 3 showing and turns over a Jack followed by drawing a Queen then the Queen is discarded and the dealer announces "13, pay 14 or more", so the player with 16, in the above example, will win.
If the dealer finishes with a total of 15 then all hands (except 'Blackjacks') will push regardless of whether the player's total is higher or lower than 15.
Player 'Blackjacks' will pay 6/5 (initially) although some casinos may pay 3/2 eventually.
I suppose the game could be viewed as a 'War' style game with a Blackjack twist to it.
I'm really not sure what the reaction will be like but it will be interesting to see. The game has been launched in 1 casino here in the UK and has had reasonable play to date (since Christmas).
Thanks for inquiring and I hope I've explained it well enough.
what is the basis around the dealers rule of the 15? please explain what that does. why would 16 not win ect. what is the house edge %? isnt busting a major part of the house advantage?
Quote: ponyboy
what is the basis around the dealers rule of the 15? please explain what that does. why would 16 not win ect.
As the players mimic the dealer (and cannot 'bust') then the game would be a 50/50 proposition for the players. The 'Push on 15' allows the casino to maintain a house edge and also creates enough advantage to offer 6/5 or 3/2 for a player 'Blackjack'.
The house edge comes from a dealer '15' pushing more 'winning' hands than 'losing' ones. The higher the dealer total is then the lower the house edge achieved. However, if the dealer was to push on a total of '12' then this actually decreases the house edge because although it will push all 'winning' hands a dealer '12' will not come up that often.
So, '15' was used as it allows enough winners to be pushed while being a hand that the dealer will achieve at a reasonable frequency.
Quote: SwitchAs the players mimic the dealer (and cannot 'bust') then the game would be a 50/50 proposition for the players. The 'Push on 15' allows the casino to maintain a house edge and also creates enough advantage to offer 6/5 or 3/2 for a player 'Blackjack'.
The house edge comes from a dealer '15' pushing more 'winning' hands than 'losing' ones. The higher the dealer total is then the lower the house edge achieved. However, if the dealer was to push on a total of '12' then this actually decreases the house edge because although it will push all 'winning' hands a dealer '12' will not come up that often.
So, '15' was used as it allows enough winners to be pushed while being a hand that the dealer will achieve at a reasonable frequency.
ok thank you.
what happens of a standard..say 18, 18 push?
Quote: ponyboyok thank you.
what happens of a standard..say 18, 18 push?
what about the dealer doing the dealers edge push with 14? 14 is the most common 2 card number. and when playing blackjack, for the best odds, you are to assume the down card is whatever makes the hand equal 14, not a ten like most think.
or is the 15 the best number to be used because its the most common when dealing with multiple cards?
Quote: SwitchAs the players mimic the dealer (and cannot 'bust') then the game would be a 50/50 proposition for the players. The 'Push on 15' allows the casino to maintain a house edge and also creates enough advantage to offer 6/5 or 3/2 for a player 'Blackjack'.
The house edge comes from a dealer '15' pushing more 'winning' hands than 'losing' ones. The higher the dealer total is then the lower the house edge achieved. However, if the dealer was to push on a total of '12' then this actually decreases the house edge because although it will push all 'winning' hands a dealer '12' will not come up that often.
So, '15' was used as it allows enough winners to be pushed while being a hand that the dealer will achieve at a reasonable frequency.
i understand yet i am still confused. 12 is just as likely to come up as 15 is. if the dealer flips a two card 15 does he have to hit and have it "bust and discarded the bust card for it to be 15? or is it an instant push on the flop? if it is instant on the flop, lol id make it 12!
Quote: ponyboyok thank you.
what happens of a standard..say 18, 18 push?
Yes, all ties push with the dealer including 'Blackjack'.
Quote: SwitchThe dealer has to actually 'bust' and end up with 15 so that's why 12 is less frequent as a final total.
alright cool thanks man man thanks cool alright!
Quote: ponyboywhat about the dealer doing the dealers edge push with 14? 14 is the most common 2 card number. and when playing blackjack, for the best odds, you are to assume the down card is whatever makes the hand equal 14, not a ten like most think.
or is the 15 the best number to be used because its the most common when dealing with multiple cards?
It was a combination of 2 things to achieve the desired house edge:-
1. How often the dealer finished with that 'bust' total
2. The % of winning hands the dealer pushes with a particular total.
I do have a list somewhere of house edges given by pushing on totals between 12-17. I think that 14 was quite close to 15 but I chose 15 because it gives 3 losing player totals that can still push for the player (12, 13 & 14).
Quote: SwitchIt was a combination of 2 things to achieve the desired house edge:-
1. How often the dealer finished with that 'bust' total
2. The % of winning hands the dealer pushes with a particular total.
I do have a list somewhere of house edges given by pushing on totals between 12-17. I think that 14 was quite close to 15 but I chose 15 because it gives 3 losing player totals that can still push for the player (12, 13 & 14).
well they would all push anyways no matter what they where. can you run a sim on 12 on the flop or 12 at anytime? i can almost bet that would be hugly better edge
Quote: SwitchIt was a combination of 2 things to achieve the desired house edge:-
1. How often the dealer finished with that 'bust' total
2. The % of winning hands the dealer pushes with a particular total.
I do have a list somewhere of house edges given by pushing on totals between 12-17. I think that 14 was quite close to 15 but I chose 15 because it gives 3 losing player totals that can still push for the player (12, 13 & 14).
ive been thinking on the 12 because some blackjack games a dealer 22 is a push for all hands, which is a busted 12 ect
Quote: ponyboyive been thinking on the 12 because some blackjack games a dealer 22 is a push for all hands, which is a busted 12 ect
It's also a busted 13 (with a 9)
...a busted 14 (with an 8) etc etc
So, pushing on 22 is a lot more frequent ~ 7.26% for 'Stand Soft 17' and 7.36% for 'Hit Soft 17'.
Quote: SwitchIt's also a busted 13 (with a 9)
...a busted 14 (with an 8) etc etc
So, pushing on 22 is a lot more frequent ~ 7.26% for 'Stand Soft 17' and 7.36% for 'Hit Soft 17'.
does a 15 push out weight a 22 push of 7%
Quote: ponyboydoes a 15 push out weight a 22 push of 7%
No, it's well short.
I located my list for you and the following edge is given to the casino by pushing on:-
12 3.21%
13 3.79%
14 4.11%
15 4.13%
16 3.67%
17 3.54%
Of course, you then have to subtract an amount depending on whether you pay player 'Blackjacks' 6/5 or 3/2.
Hope this helps.
Quote: SwitchNo, it's well short.
I located my list for you and the following edge is given to the casino by pushing on:-
12 3.21%
13 3.79%
14 4.11%
15 4.13%
16 3.67%
17 3.54%
Of course, you then have to subtract an amount depending on whether you pay player 'Blackjacks' 6/5 or 3/2.
Hope this helps.
ah i see thanks. i still dont understand how the dealer pushing gains him advantage to pay higher on blackjacks, as pushing only saves the dealer bank, rather then make it larger
Quote: ponyboyah i see thanks. i still dont understand how the dealer pushing gains him advantage to pay higher on blackjacks, as pushing only saves the dealer bank, rather then make it larger
It's because the dealer pushes ALL player hands with 15, regardless of the player's hand being higher or lower.
Consequently, the dealer will end up pushing (i.e. not paying) more winning player hands if he/she pushes on a total lower than the average player total achieved.
Just to underline; imagine the dealer saying "If I get a 'Blackjack' then I'm not going to take your money as I will count it as a push on all hands". That would be a big plus for the player. The push on 15 acts in reverse because, with a 15, the player will normally be paying more bets than he would be taking.
Hope this makes sense.
Quote: RoyalBJAre these side bets or new games? They require field trials, so I guess they are real games.
These are actual games, or variants of Blackjack, so they require a field trial in Nevada.
Quote: NareedThe way I understand your rules, the player doesn't seem to have to make any decisions. All hits and stays are automatic. I saw no mention of splits or doubles, either. If that's so, then no basic strategy BJ players will be drawn to your game, but it may do well with people who can't understand BJ or who don't like making the efort t play.
Good luck on the field trial.
I would play this game if I could leave my money there and come back later to see how I was doing?
