Help with the processing of creating a side bet

Dealer of 15 years here looking for some advice. I was sitting on a dead blackjack table a few weeks ago just randomly thinking about side bets. I came up with a side bet idea for blackjack that I think most players would enjoy and most casinos would take on. I reached out to a guy that ran the numbers for me on the side bet and everything came back good…nice house edge, can be taught in under 15 seconds, attractive payouts etc.

Now comes the hard part I’m sure. I don’t know where to begin. There’s a tornado of questions floating around my head that I can’t answer without help. Do I need a patent? How much will it cost? How long will it take? How do I start pitching it to casinos? Do I take it to shuffle master/AGS or do I do it myself?

I have the idea and the game, if anyone can so kindly help me out and give me a step by step guide on how to go forth with this I would greatly appreciate it.

I know DJ Teddy bear on here has experience creating and trying to implement a game. Mr casino games also market table games.wizard would be helpful also. Mr casino games thread is today's gaming-news. Ntg I would suggest checking out that thread

The usual answer for your question seems to be if you are considering a patent - which i think you might - you SHOULD (as in not required but is highly suggested) have someone make an interactive demo (aka someone should make the first example in some kind of APP)

i suggest you make your demo accessible to as many people as possible and make it available on a website online

i think the idea is to be the first to publish and if someone copies you its a bit easier to prove that you created something if you chose to pursue charges in court

I have a lot to say on this subject.

I got your Private Message asking most of the same questions. I do not respond to PMs when the question is better asked and answered publicly.

Patents are very hard to get, and are somewhat worthless. See this thread: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gaming-business/game-inventors/36549-clone-of-galaxys-all-tall-small-bonus-craps-bet/

Don't assume players will like the game. Try it with friends at home or coworkers on break.

Don't assume casinos will want to take the game. Strange as it may seem, casinos do not like to gamble. They tend to not trust the math, and are reluctant to put in an unproven new game. They like to see some positive numbers from some other casino before they will give it a shot. Yes, this is a catch-22 situation.

The BlackJack side bet space is very congested.

You probably think you have the greatest thing since sliced bread. The reality is, you might have a slice of bread.

As you may know, I created a side bet for Roulette. Industry people liked it, and I had the advantage of there being no side bets for roulette yet. I had a patent and a distribution agreement with Galaxy Gaming. For whatever reason, Galaxy never managed to get a field trial for the game.

So, rather than increasing the hold at the roulette table by adding my side bet, the industry added 000. Any idiot could see that 000 greatly increases the house edge and gives nothing back to the player. But look at any 000 table and you see plenty of idiots playing the game. And it didn't cost the casino a dime in royalties. But even then there was reluctance. New 39 pocket wheels are pricey. It wasn’t until one casino showed success that the others got on board.

In your PM you mentioned getting an LLC. That's probably something you don't need until you have a distribution deal. Or maybe not even until you actually start getting paid.

Before you spend a dime, do more research. There was a member here, PaiGowDan, who had some success with a Pai Gow variant (EZ Pai Gow). For a while he was working for Galaxy. Read his posts. He wrote a great book, "Essentials of Casino Game Design". Buy it and read it. Unfortunately, he passed away in 2017.


Now for some good news:

Since you work in a casino, you *might* be able to get your casino to try out the game. But there are many steps you'll need to go thru before that can happen. Don't ask me what the steps are.

Frankly, I believe if I had been in the industry, or at least lived close enough to a casino to have inside associates, I might have had better luck with my game. You have that going for you.


Good luck.

I second what DJTeddyBear says. Before even buying the book, there is a good "free" page of resources the Wizard supports here:
Game Developer Resources

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I have a lot to say on this subject.

I got your Private Message asking most of the same questions. I do not respond to PMs when the question is better asked and answered publicly.

Patents are very hard to get, and are somewhat worthless. See this thread: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gaming-business/game-inventors/36549-clone-of-galaxys-all-tall-small-bonus-craps-bet/

Don't assume players will like the game. Try it with friends at home or coworkers on break.

Don't assume casinos will want to take the game. Strange as it may seem, casinos do not like to gamble. They tend to not trust the math, and are reluctant to put in an unproven new game. They like to see some positive numbers from some other casino before they will give it a shot. Yes, this is a catch-22 situation.

The BlackJack side bet space is very congested.

You probably think you have the greatest thing since sliced bread. The reality is, you might have a slice of bread.

As you may know, I created a side bet for Roulette. Industry people liked it, and I had the advantage of there being no side bets for roulette yet. I had a patent and a distribution agreement with Galaxy Gaming. For whatever reason, Galaxy never managed to get a field trial for the game.

So, rather than increasing the hold at the roulette table by adding my side bet, the industry added 000. Any idiot could see that 000 greatly increases the house edge and gives nothing back to the player. But look at any 000 table and you see plenty of idiots playing the game. And it didn't cost the casino a dime in royalties. But even then there was reluctance. New 39 pocket wheels are pricey. It wasn’t until one casino showed success that the others got on board.

In your PM you mentioned getting an LLC. That's probably something you don't need until you have a distribution deal. Or maybe not even until you actually start getting paid.

Before you spend a dime, do more research. There was a member here, PaiGowDan, who had some success with a Pai Gow variant (EZ Pai Gow). For a while he was working for Galaxy. Read his posts. He wrote a great book, "Essentials of Casino Game Design". Buy it and read it. Unfortunately, he passed away in 2017.


Now for some good news:

Since you work in a casino, you *might* be able to get your casino to try out the game. But there are many steps you'll need to go thru before that can happen. Don't ask me what the steps are.

Frankly, I believe if I had been in the industry, or at least lived close enough to a casino to have inside associates, I might have had better luck with my game. You have that going for you.


Good luck.
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I agree with you that everything gets copied, for the Bonus Craps case I believe they at least waited until the patent expired (sometime in 2014 I believe), however probably not always the case as you have pointed out before, any minor rule change can seemingly get around a patent

First, I would like to thank you all the for the feedback and criticism. This is an important factor when attempting something like this and every piece of information provided is a step in the right direction. It’s nice to know every obstacle along the way and hardship that can come up.

I ordered the book DJTeddyBear recommended and also the book by Dan Lubin mentioned in some other post I was viewing. Also to Mr.DJ, I read the ENTIRE forum post on the small, tall, all and the post regarding your roulette game, very informative sir.

Again, I appreciate it all and every resource this forum has to offer.

The members here cannot tell you that any new bet will succeed commercially. But…. we can likely tell you if it has no chance. And why. Once you are comfortable giving details it is possible feedback from the forum might save you countless hours and money.