12-sided dice

Now that 3d printing is well established, can these devices form a legal 12-sided die (dice)?
Its rather easy by comparison to form a cube, being at right-angles. The tolerances are generally (to the best of my knowledge) +/- 0.0001" with equal face-weighting.

I will state that some interesting gaming can occur if the 12-sided dice (dodecahedron) can be produced as legal dice.

Any thoughts or further knowledge appreciated.
Suited89

Super Crapless Craps!!

Gimme a Horn High 24!

What makes a dice "legal"?
Why would a CNC plastic extruder make a better dice than Chessex?

“Legal” dice?

It is my understanding that there are no specific regulations regarding the manufacture of casino dice.

I couldn't find anything for the UK but did find this document that specifies tight tolerances for dice (§ 5322.11. Dice; physical characteristics.) https://gaming.ny.gov/pdf/Casino%20Table%20Game%20Equipment%20text.pdf

Quote: charliepatrick

I couldn't find anything for the UK but did find this document that specifies tight tolerances for dice (§ 5322.11. Dice; physical characteristics.) https://gaming.ny.gov/pdf/Casino%20Table%20Game%20Equipment%20text.pdf
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That specifies that the shape shall be a perfect cube.

If this is a common requirement... I think d12's are out.

Could be easy to implement to Online game
https://g.co/kgs/eo7DSy

Yes, I agree with that legal definition... anything other than d6 cannot be legal.
Perhaps there are no Federal regulations, but States DO have the right to define gambling... legal or not. What does become clear is that if its not written into law, it can exist as a legal gaming device (card, dice, tile, etc). NY State clearly states cube dice. Others may not. Noteworthy would be NGL and Calif.

This makes me wonder about the size of a Playing Card being defined as 2.5" by 3.5", or the size of Dominoes, or Pai Gow Tiles, etc.

IIRC one of the Game-Makers here invented a version of Roulette using a single 20-sided die.

Regards
Suited89

Quote: Dieter

What makes a dice "legal"?
Why would a CNC plastic extruder make a better dice than Chessex?
link to original post

Chessex will over-polish the dice leading to rather rounded edges. Part of the idea with cube-dice is that the edges are "sharp" (and yes, they do sliver). In the world of D&D "Zocchi" dice have been tested for a 20000 roll behavior. Test specimens are actually marked, and I own one as a 12-sided die. Youtube has a bunch of videos on this subject, and the results of "game" dice of any number of sides are quite variable up to 2%. In some of the videos, the same 20 dice are stacked upon the same face, for each face as a "tattle-tale" that the dice might be "rigged".

In short, if gaming dice do not have any special definition(s) you might be playing craps with a 3% vig on the come-out.

Suited89

I have a few Casinos that wants to try my 20-sided Die Roulette-game, but I can’t get any position 20-sided Die, so that's the end of that game for Live casinos.
P.S. It will be OK as a RNG DICE Roulette-game. FREE-Play Roulette-18® DICE™: PlayRoulette18DICE.com
BTW, I also INVENTED a few games that uses 12-sided DICE too.

Roulette-18® DICE™. Roulette18DICE.com
* FREE-Play Roulette-18® DICE™: PlayRoulette18DICE.com

Quote: Suited89

Quote: Dieter

What makes a dice "legal"?
Why would a CNC plastic extruder make a better dice than Chessex?
link to original post

Chessex will over-polish the dice leading to rather rounded edges. Part of the idea with cube-dice is that the edges are "sharp" (and yes, they do sliver). In the world of D&D "Zocchi" dice have been tested for a 20000 roll behavior. Test specimens are actually marked, and I own one as a 12-sided die. Youtube has a bunch of videos on this subject, and the results of "game" dice of any number of sides are quite variable up to 2%. In some of the videos, the same 20 dice are stacked upon the same face, for each face as a "tattle-tale" that the dice might be "rigged".

In short, if gaming dice do not have any special definition(s) you might be playing craps with a 3% vig on the come-out.

Suited89
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Well, working backwards...

If a sharp edge is a requirement, that could be met.
If pipped faces are a requirement, that would be obnoxious, but possible.
If flush-filled face markings are a requirement, that can be done.
Serial numbers could be added.
I have no idea if cellulose acetate is compatible with "3d printers".
I expect that 3d printed dice would not be economically viable. I expect that high volume production is faster if a square extrusion blank is milled (or otherwise machined) for the desired size, shape, and markings.

As far as I know, most non-precision dice are molded. I think the sprue is a deal-breaker; something about internal irregularities. I expect 3d printing will introduce unsuitable internal irregularities.

The distance between faces could be specified.
Limiting allowable shapes to platonic solids instead of cubes could work.

Dice will probably still need to be micrometer checked and spun for balance.
I don't expect any concession on how long a set of dice may be played before cancellation.

My hunch is that if that can all be done, non-cubical dice will cost around $21 each, compared to around $2 each for cubical dice.
Any casino game involving non-cubical dice will need a fairly high table minimum, and probably a high house edge... this could tend to make the game unpopular and unprofitable.

The insight on Zocchi dice is fascinating. Thanks for that tidbit.

The post previous to yours shows the 20-sided dice game.

Yes, vertex based injection molding is a no-go (spurule). This is the reason for the over-polishing of non-cube dice. Face-based injection molding can be compensated. The 3d printed dice AFAIK do have face-transitive problems (i.e. steps or stripes), but these can be pressed under heat to smooth them.

The opportunity here is that 3d printing can form the dice and "paint" the surface, or can form the dice, heat-press to smooth, and then "paint". No incuse designs with pips need be made.

As you point out, its more economical to make cube-dice as currently produced (but paint rather than incuse/pips). The 5 Platonic solids (4, 6, 8, 12, 20 sides) would be the only shapes permitted. AFAIK registered dice are are running $13 to $16 per brick of 5... all are coming from China AFAIK.

Regards
Suited89