When is a house edge too high?

Quote: Rosebud

I was wondering, for new games, when is a house edge considered "too high" for a table game? To the point where a regular player might not find it attractive to play. Also, are there any rules of thumb around hands per hour and the house edge? For instance, I would imagine you could get away with a slower game if you had a higher house edge, but are there any quantitative metrics or benchmarks in the industry?

EDIT: I should mention that I am talking for an overall house edge for the main section of a game. I know some things like side bets and what not can go very high, but I am taking about the "primary" house edge for the game. For instance, for the purposes of this question, for craps as an example, I would say the primary house edge is the house edge for the pass line and not the house edge for one of the other bets like Big 6 and 8.

Thanks!

Quote: odiousgambit

Not a simple question, but here is a simple answer: the house edge is too high when the typical gambler perceives that his bankroll does not last long enough.

Because of the complexity of the question I don't think I can seriously give a figure like "no more than 2% HE" though I think generally that can be a guide. I don't think you can sell a new game to the House with such a low HE though

Quote: 100xOdds

it depends on your goal
ie: hrs of entertainment at a leisurely pace or reaching a certain rewards card tier level quickly

for your $ to last longest, play at the lowest house edge table games:
1) 3:2 bj
2) craps passline/dont pass
3) ultimate texas holdem

craps is probably the best to last the longest.
single passline/dont pass with max odds then just wait till you hit. you can stand there for many rolls with that single bet.

for rewards tier lvl, play video poker with a 99.1+% return and only if the casino doesnt require huge coin-in per tier point

Quote: tringlomane

Imo, i would not have a game where the "perfect" player loses more than 2 "units" per hour on average.

A "unit" in this case is considered to be things like "antes" in multi-bet games.

Quote: Rosebud

Thanks. And I was actually asking more-so to better calibrate the edge of the game I am working on.
I know carnival games are expected to have higher house edge, but at the same time, if it is too high, people won't want to play, so I am trying to figure out what the limit is to how high an edge can go before being perceived as too unattractive. But I figure that this would also have to take the hands per hour into account as well.

Quote: Rosebud

And yes, seems like any new carnival games would definitely need in excess of 2% now.

Quote: 100xOdds

doh.. so BlackJack Switch wouldnt have made it in today's casino environment?

Quote: charliepatrick

Don't underestimate the value of sidebets, they can have a HE of over 3% but probably need a high-paying tempter (e.g. Pair Plus in 3CP).

I can understand some players won't play anything with a large HE, but your target audience is probably players looking for an easy game that's fun to play and gives a good run for your money with an opportunity to win something decent, If your base game can include, say, a 25/1 payout that has some advantages, but sometimes that means the maximums have to be lower.

Quote: Ace2

For regular players, I’d say the cap is around 2%.

If you’re going to make 1,000 bets over a weekend with a fair payout of 1:1, actual payout of 9:10 for a 5% edge, you will lose about 19 of 20 weekends. Losing all the time is no fun

Quote: DogHand

Rosebud,

Besides the house edge, you also have to consider the variance of the game. As a silly example, consider a game with a house edge of 1%. If the player loses exactly 1% every round (house takes in $100 and returns $99), then the variance is 0, and nobody would play.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Quote: tough

I think the casinos should max out their house edge at 2.7%, like European roulette. Any more than this, like American roulette, and I think the game is a rip off.

Quote: ksdjdj

This link below may be of some help in working out what type of games are the “ best “

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.usaonlinecasino.com/blog/which-games-make-casinos-the-most-money/amp/


Written from phone

Quote: SOOPOO

Frankly, I find it amazing that anyone plays double zero roulette anywhere. And I was stunned to read that there are now Vegas casinos offering triple zero roulette! So if triple zero roulette exists (8% house edge?) , the sky is the limit, I guess.

Quote: rxwine

Keeping a player in the casino longer may be better for a casino at better odds for the player.

-player gets a sense that he is getting more action, though in fact he may make up for that by putting more money over time.
- more likely to return to casino where it appears he is getting value for action
- more likely to end up spending money in their nonGambling amenities since he’s there longer.
- more likely to recommend to friends since he’s less likely to feel burned for value
- tired players make more mistakes

Just aiming for the sweet spot of taking money from the player may not be their best bet.