mrsuit31
Joined: May 29, 2010
• Posts: 1319
December 15th, 2019 at 12:21:58 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand

mrsuit31,

Must the "10" be hard? So A-9 does NOT count as 10 for purposes of this sidebet?

Dog Hand

Yes, A/9 (soft 20) falls under the “Player 20.... 1 to 1” pay.
.
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
• Posts: 14229
Thanks for this post from:
December 15th, 2019 at 12:24:07 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand

mrsuit31,

Must the "10" be hard? So A-9 does NOT count as 10 for purposes of this sidebet?

Dog Hand

Good question. If the intent is to always pay the higher win, should be ok, but if 3:1 specifically excludes A-9, I can see some arguments at the table developing, and some mispays.

I like the bet overall, and it's likely I'd play it if I were otherwise at the table.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
mrsuit31
Joined: May 29, 2010
• Posts: 1319
December 15th, 2019 at 12:28:41 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Good question. If the intent is to always pay the higher win, should be ok, but if 3:1 specifically excludes A-9, I can see some arguments at the table developing, and some mispays.

I like the bet overall, and it's likely I'd play it if I were otherwise at the table.

That is why I included the parenthetical on the “player 20” pay line. That said, that would be an easy change to the math before launch if needed.

I’ll find out the influence in the edge for that change in the meantime...

Thanks Babs!
.
MrCasinoGames
Joined: Sep 13, 2010
• Posts: 2297
Thanks for this post from:
December 15th, 2019 at 6:01:12 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

Hi All,

Happy to introduce my newest and first BJ side wager release, "Empty The Rack Blackjack".

This BJ side wager pays according to the following pay table (Player hands apply ti the player's initial 2 cards dealt):

Suited BJ vs Suited BJ .......... 40 to 1
BJ vs BJ ...................................... 15 to 1
Player 20 vs Dealer BJ ......... 11 to 1
Player BJ ...................................... 4 to 1
Player 10 & 11 or 88/AA ...... 3 to 1
Player 20 (including A/9) ...... 1 to 1

25.4% hit rate

HA:
8 Deck = 7.2213%
6 Deck = 7.3170%

AP analysis has been conducted by Charles M.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts good, bad or ugly, as always.

This looks like a Side-bet that combineds: My TWO Blackjack Side-bets (Ten-20®) with (Perfect-11®).

BTW. My Latest Blackjack Side-bet is Call (Double-Barrel® Bonus-Blackjack™) whitch is offing this TWO Side-bets on a Blackjack-game, and will be at the ICE-London Show 2010, in ABBIATI's Booth S7-230. http://bit.ly/2YQalmc

You can find Both Side-Bets at WizardofOdds Wedsite:

1. Ten-20®. LAST UPDATED: APRIL 16, 2019. Ten20WoO.com

2. Perfect-11® (Side-bet for Open-21®) LAST UPDATED: MARCH 6, 2017. Open21WoO.com
Last edited by: MrCasinoGames on Dec 15, 2019
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
GBAM
Joined: Feb 26, 2019
• Posts: 82
Thanks for this post from:
December 15th, 2019 at 6:16:22 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

This is a more clear table for that payout:

Suited BJ vs Suited BJ ................. 40 to 1
BJ vs BJ ........................................ 15 to 1
Player 20 vs Dealer BJ .................. 11 to 1
Player BJ ....................................... 4 to 1
Player 10 & 11 or pair 8s & As........ 3 to 1
Player 20 (including A/9) .................. 1 to 1

The 3 to 1 pays on player hard 10 or 11 and a player pair of 8s or As (no other pairs).

The wager is designed to increase volatility, while also creating a little insurance or windfall feelings on the hands that A) the player is supposed to win (e.g. 20s and BJs) and B) the hands where players add to/increase the main BJ wager on the split hands (8s & As) and double hands (hard 10 & 11s).

Also to clarify, the top pay does not have to be the same suited BJ. For example, player suited spade BJ vs Dealer suited Heart BJ qualifies for the top pay. Of course a same suited BJ vs BJ can be added or even a perfect match BJ vs BJ for a progressive or very large top pay. That said, I wanted to keep the pay tables somewhat minimal.

This is the bj progressive they use at Foxwoods which is similar to your side bet but I prefer Foxwoods version.

Theirs also includes the must hit by \$200 which goes off satisfyingly often
mrsuit31
Joined: May 29, 2010
• Posts: 1319
December 15th, 2019 at 6:26:27 PM permalink
Quote: GBAM

This is the bj progressive they use at Foxwoods which is similar to your side bet but I prefer Foxwoods version.

Theirs also includes the must hit by \$200 which goes off satisfyingly often

Correct, I had forgotten about their progressive when I wrote that post. My wager will not be a progressive nor will it change from its current form (of course not including minor tweets to the pays if needed).
.
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
• Posts: 6279
Thanks for this post from:
December 15th, 2019 at 7:08:06 PM permalink
I agree with Babs. If the A/9 paying 3:1 doesn't hurt the math much I would consider changing it.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
mrsuit31
Joined: May 29, 2010
• Posts: 1319
December 15th, 2019 at 7:12:22 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I agree with Babs. If the A/9 paying 3:1 doesn't hurt the math much I would consider changing it.

I am having that calculation done to see what effect it has. If nothing crazy, I will likely do so.

Appreciate the feedback.
.
GBAM
Joined: Feb 26, 2019
• Posts: 82
December 15th, 2019 at 7:30:23 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

Correct, I had forgotten about their progressive when I wrote that post. My wager will not be a progressive nor will it change from its current form (of course not including minor tweets to the pays if needed).

Not trying to put down your work, and knowing absolutely nothing about the house edge of the progressive Foxwoods uses, how can there be such a large discrepancy between your bet and the progressive for the same hand, suited BJ vs Suited BJ, yours pays \$200 for a \$5 bet and Progressive version pays \$1500 for a \$5 bet
mrsuit31
Joined: May 29, 2010
• Posts: 1319
December 15th, 2019 at 7:36:33 PM permalink
Quote: GBAM

Not trying to put down your work, and knowing absolutely nothing about the house edge of the progressive Foxwoods uses, how can there be such a large discrepancy between your bet and the progressive for the same hand, suited BJ vs Suited BJ, yours pays \$200 for a \$5 bet and Progressive version pays \$1500 for a \$5 bet

The hit rate and returns in my wager are massively different than that wager. The only thing that wager pays is a player Ace or combinations of BJs. I have a very large amount of return built into the lower end, higher hit rate payouts, like the splits (8s or As) and doubles (10 or 11). This also helps the counting vulnerability by trying to minimize it as much as possible.

With very low hit rate wagers, you can have astronomically high payouts on those low probability events. When you start raising the hit rate by adding numerous lower end payouts, you start having to significantly decrease the higher end pays as they are responsible for such a small amount of return on the overall wager.

I hope that helps answer the question in a quick nutshell.

And please don’t worry about putting down my work, I post here for the feedback and have been for many years now. I want to hear the skepticism. I can handle it :)
.